Kathy, you have been quite productive! This time off for me has been very good and bad for my business. Good because I have had time to slow down enough to find and patch the holes in my business accounts. Lots of unnecessary bills, interest payments, and late fees. Along with time to find new vendors with better pricing and evaluating employee performance.
Bad because business is down 50% but after this is over I will be much stronger because of it, provided we survive it.
@yosclimber said: And I have been working on a nonlinear statistics problem (Multinomial Logit with Quasi-Complete Separation).
What the hell does that even mean
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I actually bought 2 June contracts at 8:00 this morning. I sold one at 10:00 because it was up $900. I"m sitting on the other one.
It's actually a case of contango. The oil price quoted is the May contract which expires tomorrow. But there is so much oil out there, no one has any way to store it. So the May contract is at $8 and dropping fast. If you have storage capacity, you will make a killing because oil should be back up near $20 by Wednesday when they are quoting the June contract.
It's a really odd situation. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it. The June contract is currently selling for $22.70 while the May contract is at $5.90!!!!
That's right. Oil for May delivery is currently selling at under $6 per barrel!!!! All because of storage costs.
The oil price quoted is the May contract which expires tomorrow. But there is so much oil out there, no one has any way to store it. So the May contract is at $8 and dropping fast. If you have storage capacity, you will make a killing because oil should be back up near $20 by Wednesday when they are quoting the June contract.
It's a really odd situation. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it. The June contract is currently selling for $22.70 while the May contract is at $5.90!!!!
That's right. Oil for May delivery is currently selling at under $6 per barrel!!!! All because of storage costs.
The oil price quoted is the May contract which expires tomorrow. But there is so much oil out there, no one has any way to store it. So the May contract is at $8 and dropping fast. If you have storage capacity, you will make a killing because oil should be back up near $20 by Wednesday when they are quoting the June contract.
It's a really odd situation. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it. The June contract is currently selling for $22.70 while the May contract is at $5.90!!!!
That's right. Oil for May delivery is currently selling at under $6 per barrel!!!! All because of storage costs.
I can't find even a barrel on the BST!
LOL. Current price NEGATIVE 13 cents. LOL. June price still $22.
It's a weird expiration trick. You are going to see oil down 99% today and then go up 2000% on Wednesday. Kind of weird
Check it out now I finished my dark room in light room if you haven’t seen it online you’ve got to check this out it is the coolest thing at least I think so and I made it all by myself not complete but works and functions 100% with my new MU 1000 camera to take this beautiful picture because I need to always have to have a picture in there
@1Mike1 said:
A lot of your photos have subtle (and some not so subtle) political advertising.
No kidding. The very last thing we need now.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Busier than ever but unfortunately never sent to isolation. I wish they would isolate me 6 months or even a year. I'd never come close to have everything done on the homestead nor would I have even noticed I'd been "isolated".
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I wrote a newsletter about my journey and will be on the Wayne Dupree show Friday night. I think it’s a call in. Runs 6-9pm so if it happens and I get the call for the line up will let you all get a chuckle but wrote my first news letter with you all in mind
@Insider2 said: @jmlanzaf said: "Sharing ideas is different than SELLING ideas."
I don't know, what are you sharing, I may want to buy some.
Buy oil. It can't stay at $12 forever
Oil is a dying business. You should invest in hydrogen fuel cells and power storage.
Hydrogen fuel cells are not an energy source. They are an energy storage medium. The hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water. How do you generate the electricity? Currently, that is still largely fossil fuels.
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Oil has been a "dying business" since the 1970s. I'll be dead before oil is replaced.
@Kkathyl said:
I wrote a newsletter about my journey and will be on the Wayne Dupree show Friday night. I think it’s a call in. Runs 6-9pm so if it happens and I get the call for the line up will let you all get a chuckle but wrote my first news letter with you all in mind
Check your math. One American silver dollar per month over 34 years is a total of 408 coins. At $20 per coin, that's $8160 not $1.4 million????? Even if you bought 100 per month, that's a total of $816,000 not $1.4 million.
@1Mike1 said:
A lot of your photos have subtle (and some not so subtle) political advertising.
Sorry Mike but I’m busy and perhaps I can have my private home office be just that. I should me mindful as I see some still are allowing silly things to become issues. Not meant in anyway to hurt your sole mind or feeling. So I will crop some for you. I don’t care about politics I leave that to the media mega billions. To worry about my family speak diff languages have diff outter organ tissue shades but we agree to ignore diff and llove all life. everyone no natter the skin think thin. I worked hard and created a great space others. Can now duplicate that’s just me. I’m happy and human. Flawed as are we all. Did you all get snow last week?
There is either something wrong with the math here or SOMETHING!! There are only 412 months that have passed since 1986 SO HOW IS IT THAT IF a person that bought "one American silver dollar" a month SPENT $40,000?
WHAT FOLLOWS IS A QUOTE FROM YOUR NEWSLETTER---
If you bought a American Silver dollar one a month (under 100) from 1986 to now you would have spent around 40K but the Silver coins would be worth 1.4M today!
@Kkathyl said:
I wrote a newsletter about my journey and will be on the Wayne Dupree show Friday night. I think it’s a call in. Runs 6-9pm so if it happens and I get the call for the line up will let you all get a chuckle but wrote my first news letter with you all in mind
Check your math. One American silver dollar per month over 34 years is a total of 408 coins. At $20 per coin, that's $8160 not $1.4 million????? Even if you bought 100 per month, that's a total of $816,000 not $1.4 million.
I checked the hosts math and value on the releases but I don’t get ASE ms70 proofs for 20 bucks I get them for 65 from the mint before grading and you are forgetting to check the prices of each coin in year released. This info been verified by the powers above those with strong hands.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
@joeykoins said:
I finally changed the chain on my Pole Chain Saw! Also, Broke down and finally bought a NEW can of Acetone after 4 years!
Great work. We see other countries get months off regularly. I am feeling so blessed that our country is banning together and helping others
It is getting hard being alone for my dog. She took me for a few tumbles last few Walks. I even thought I broke my foot but a few days rest and ice fixed me up just fine.
Like I say if you haven’t failed at anything you’re not trying hard enough obviously when I did my little camera demonstration with my new trinocular and MU 1000 I wasn’t conscious enough to get rid of the hurtful information somebody might see in the background but I don’t have time like that because I got to pay the bills so I was just trying to demonstrate that’s what’s on my wall sorry we’re all human our way so next time I’ll try to be conscious and I have my T flag curtains up oh well next time I’ll try to make sure somebody cant zoom in and see some offensive T dogs LOL but that’s human right ,we all try nothing would be wrong. trying and failing is in every success story.
While this thread has been somewhat fascinating (with or without the red hat), I'm sorry to say Kathy's link in her sigline is borderline... well, just read below:
Actual text from the site itself:
Which Customer Membership Suits You Best?
Standard, Plus or Premium?
Or select the Restricted Customer Membership
Sales Center Only - $359 Per Year
Better... You get a better coin and even more awesome benefits seen below:
✓ 1 year Membership
✓ Buyer's Certification Training
✓ Collector’s Training
✓ Member Direct Pricing
✓ $250 Travel Savings Card
✓ 6 Months Technology Credits
✓ MS 70 Silver Eagle Coin
✓ Total Value $700+
Which Monthly AutoSaver Coin Should We Send You?
$129 Per Month
A different MS 70 or equally awesome coin every month
Nest page has you as a sponsor. I know we are all adults of sound mind, and we can choose to enroll in a program like this or not (I will not). This reminds me of the Family of Eagles thing that was running around in the late 90's - you would get "friends" to enroll to buy various weights of gold Eagles (1/10 ounce, 1/4 ounce and so on). The first person got the best price, who would then sell to the next, then to the next, all for a bit more.
I alienated more than a few co-workers who were full in on this thing when I told them no I didn't want in and why.
This statement from your report is not true, by a dramatic amount. Like about a factor of 200x. You seem like a nice person. I sincerely hope you are not hurting yourself or others.
"If you bought a American Silver dollar one a month (under 100) from 1986 to now you would have spent around 40K but the Silver coins would be worth 1.4M today!"
@savitale said:
This statement from your report is not true, by a dramatic amount. Like about a factor of 200x. You seem like a nice person. I sincerely hope you are not hurting yourself or others.
"If you bought a American Silver dollar one a month (under 100) from 1986 to now you would have spent around 40K but the Silver coins would be worth 1.4M today!"
Indeed the math that is being passed off is so far off that my jaw hit the floor.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@markelman1125 said:
I am building a Ho sale layout section. Not a full layout but it’s fun 👍
Great idea.......have you considered building a module to NMRA standards. This way you can build modules one by one and connect them to creat a layout. I’m hoping in retirement to start a 15x20 foot layout in HO.
Best of luck and enjoy. Great hobby as well.
@air4mdc I was actually thinking of starting out a module and when I get the chance I can add on 👍. It’s a standard plywood 24in x 24in from Lowe’s so I think it’s possible to make several and put them together. The only barriers is space. If I can find room, expanding the layout may be possible but for now I got to finish what I am working on now. I have updates though
@markelman1125 said: @air4mdc I was actually thinking of starting out a module and when I get the chance I can add on 👍. It’s a standard plywood 24in x 24in from Lowe’s so I think it’s possible to make several and put them together. The only barriers is space. If I can find room, expanding the layout may be possible but for now I got to finish what I am working on now. I have updates though
There's a few on YouTube that does this work. Its interesting to see what they use to make it look realistic.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
@Kkathyl said:
I wrote a newsletter about my journey and will be on the Wayne Dupree show Friday night. I think it’s a call in. Runs 6-9pm so if it happens and I get the call for the line up will let you all get a chuckle but wrote my first news letter with you all in mind
Check your math. One American silver dollar per month over 34 years is a total of 408 coins. At $20 per coin, that's $8160 not $1.4 million????? Even if you bought 100 per month, that's a total of $816,000 not $1.4 million.
I checked the hosts math and value on the releases but I don’t get ASE ms70 proofs for 20 bucks I get them for 65 from the mint before grading and you are forgetting to check the prices of each coin in year released. This info been verified by the powers above those with strong hands.
408 coins in Proof 70 (not MS70 proofs, whatever that is) works out to $3400 PER COIN. To get to $40,000 in expenses you have to be spending $100 per month, not one coin per month. Now, I'm not sure what you were buying in 1986 for your $100, maybe 5 proofs or 10 uncs, but there is no way that math works out.
If you bought uncs averaging $10 per coin which are now $20 per coin, your $40,000 is now $80,000 not $1.4 million.
If you bought proofs averaging $20 per coin then you have 2000 proofs that today are running about $40 per coin raw which is still $80,000.
If you bought proofs averaging $20 per coin and you spent $20 per coin to slab them and 100 PERCENT OF THEM were PF 70, you have 1000 PR70 eagles for your $40,000. To get to $1.4 million, each of those coins have to be worth $1400. They are NOT, in ANY priceguide. The 1995-W is the most expensive and you wouldn't even have one of those because of how it was sold. There are only 2 proof 70 coins besides the 1995-W that are over $500 and none over $1000.
No offense, but your undermine your credibility with this claim.
And, for the record, turning $40,000 into $80,000 over 34 years is about a 2% annual return on investment.
I think the moderators really need to look at this thread and shut down the MLM game here. We've moved beyond subtly promoting a business to intentionally engaging in a highly deceptive marketing pitch. Most of the denizens of this forum are too experienced and sophisticated to fall for it, but if even one newbie gets sucked into buying American silver eagles from 7k metals, it is one too many.
@markelman1125 said: @air4mdc I was actually thinking of starting out a module and when I get the chance I can add on 👍. It’s a standard plywood 24in x 24in from Lowe’s so I think it’s possible to make several and put them together. The only barriers is space. If I can find room, expanding the layout may be possible but for now I got to finish what I am working on now. I have updates though
I would like to see some of your progress as you go along if you don’t mind, you can PM me. Your artwork is very good as well.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
Feel free to post as many flawed studies as you want. It doesn't bolster your argument. I haven't read this latest batch but the previous group were pure clickbait.
You reinforce this by mentioning coal which is dying in spite of idiotic politicians trying to save it.
And you cap it off with the strawman "oil is far from dead". The point I was arguing was your claim of having to drive an EV 200k miles to yield carbon savings over an ICE.
Oil is still alive due to cost and infrastructure issues, but those will be solved in time.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
Feel free to post as many flawed studies as you want. It doesn't bolster your argument. I haven't read this latest batch but the previous group were pure clickbait.
You reinforce this by mentioning coal which is dying in spite of idiotic politicians trying to save it.
And you cap it off with the strawman "oil is far from dead". The point I was arguing was your claim of having to drive an EV 200k miles to yield carbon savings over an ICE.
Oil is still alive due to cost and infrastructure issues, but those will be solved in time.
t depends on the car you use for comparison. Actually, I think the 200k isn't so much the carbon as the cost savings. Oil is far from dead is not a straw man, it was the original point. This all stemmed from my statement that I would (and did) buy oil at $12 because it couldn't stay there. Your response was that I should invest in hydrogen fuel cells instead.
Your bias (and arrogance) are fully noted. It should be possible to carry on a civilized discussion without the attitude. I won't even bother to wave my credentials at you. I also avoided posting more scientific studies because of the audience.
The most important point is simply this: the carbon cost of production is a major component of the total carbon footprint of any vehicle. Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Most studies suggest that even with moderate to low-carbon production of electricity it takes 18 months to 2 years to make up the difference in production carbon. It takes far longer to make up the $ cost difference.
All of these studies depend on the comparison vehicle. If you compare a full electric to an SUV, it looks better for electric. If you compare full electric to an efficient compact car, it looks less good.
And electricity generation methods are key. In 5 of 31 Chinese provinces, electric vehicles actually have a HIGHER carbon footprint than gas-powered vehicles due to the heavy use of coal.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
Feel free to post as many flawed studies as you want. It doesn't bolster your argument. I haven't read this latest batch but the previous group were pure clickbait.
You reinforce this by mentioning coal which is dying in spite of idiotic politicians trying to save it.
And you cap it off with the strawman "oil is far from dead". The point I was arguing was your claim of having to drive an EV 200k miles to yield carbon savings over an ICE.
Oil is still alive due to cost and infrastructure issues, but those will be solved in time.
t depends on the car you use for comparison. Actually, I think the 200k isn't so much the carbon as the cost savings. Oil is far from dead is not a straw man, it was the original point. This all stemmed from my statement that I would (and did) buy oil at $12 because it couldn't stay there. Your response was that I should invest in hydrogen fuel cells instead.
Your bias (and arrogance) are fully noted. It should be possible to carry on a civilized discussion without the attitude. I won't even bother to wave my credentials at you. I also avoided posting more scientific studies because of the audience.
The most important point is simply this: the carbon cost of production is a major component of the total carbon footprint of any vehicle. Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Most studies suggest that even with moderate to low-carbon production of electricity it takes 18 months to 2 years to make up the difference in production carbon. It takes far longer to make up the $ cost difference.
All of these studies depend on the comparison vehicle. If you compare a full electric to an SUV, it looks better for electric. If you compare full electric to an efficient compact car, it looks less good.
And electricity generation methods are key. In 5 of 31 Chinese provinces, electric vehicles actually have a HIGHER carbon footprint than gas-powered vehicles due to the heavy use of coal.
You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
which is the entirety of what I called "nonsense". Given that, anything about how long oil is likely to be with us is diversionary (i.e., a strawman). I also said nothing about hydrogen cells.
Now you state:
Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Here's the most rigorous and authoritative assessment I could find on the topic, published by The Union of Concerned Scientists:
A full-size long-range (265 miles per charge) BEV, with its larger battery, adds about six tons of emissions, which increases manufacturing emissions by 68 percent over the gasoline version. But this electric vehicle results in 53 percent lower overall emissions compared with a similar gasoline vehicle (see Figure ES-2).
In other words, the extra emissions associated with electric vehicle production are rapidly negated by reduced emissions from driving. Comparing an average midsize midrange BEV with an average midsize gasoline-powered car, it takes just 4,900 miles of driving to “pay back”—i.e., offset—the extra global warming emissions from producing the BEV. Similarly, it takes 19,000 miles with the full-size long-range BEV compared with a similar gasoline car. Based on typical usages of these vehicles, this amounts to about six months’ driving for the midsize midrange BEV and 16 months for the full-size long-range BEV.
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
Feel free to post as many flawed studies as you want. It doesn't bolster your argument. I haven't read this latest batch but the previous group were pure clickbait.
You reinforce this by mentioning coal which is dying in spite of idiotic politicians trying to save it.
And you cap it off with the strawman "oil is far from dead". The point I was arguing was your claim of having to drive an EV 200k miles to yield carbon savings over an ICE.
Oil is still alive due to cost and infrastructure issues, but those will be solved in time.
t depends on the car you use for comparison. Actually, I think the 200k isn't so much the carbon as the cost savings. Oil is far from dead is not a straw man, it was the original point. This all stemmed from my statement that I would (and did) buy oil at $12 because it couldn't stay there. Your response was that I should invest in hydrogen fuel cells instead.
Your bias (and arrogance) are fully noted. It should be possible to carry on a civilized discussion without the attitude. I won't even bother to wave my credentials at you. I also avoided posting more scientific studies because of the audience.
The most important point is simply this: the carbon cost of production is a major component of the total carbon footprint of any vehicle. Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Most studies suggest that even with moderate to low-carbon production of electricity it takes 18 months to 2 years to make up the difference in production carbon. It takes far longer to make up the $ cost difference.
All of these studies depend on the comparison vehicle. If you compare a full electric to an SUV, it looks better for electric. If you compare full electric to an efficient compact car, it looks less good.
And electricity generation methods are key. In 5 of 31 Chinese provinces, electric vehicles actually have a HIGHER carbon footprint than gas-powered vehicles due to the heavy use of coal.
You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
which is the entirety of what I called "nonsense". Given that, anything about how long oil is likely to be with us is diversionary (i.e., a strawman). I also said nothing about hydrogen cells.
Now you state:
Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Here's the most rigorous and authoritative assessment I could find on the topic, published by The Union of Concerned Scientists:
A full-size long-range (265 miles per charge) BEV, with its larger battery, adds about six tons of emissions, which increases manufacturing emissions by 68 percent over the gasoline version. But this electric vehicle results in 53 percent lower overall emissions compared with a similar gasoline vehicle (see Figure ES-2).
In other words, the extra emissions associated with electric vehicle production are rapidly negated by reduced emissions from driving. Comparing an average midsize midrange BEV with an average midsize gasoline-powered car, it takes just 4,900 miles of driving to “pay back”—i.e., offset—the extra global warming emissions from producing the BEV. Similarly, it takes 19,000 miles with the full-size long-range BEV compared with a similar gasoline car. Based on typical usages of these vehicles, this amounts to about six months’ driving for the midsize midrange BEV and 16 months for the full-size long-range BEV.
Again, as I mentioned somewhere above, the 200,000 miles was the cost recovery not the carbon recovery. I mixed them up. Never type in the middle of the night.
My latest quarantine project. I went and bought a cheap 22 revolver when this mess started, and it came with an ugly cheap red wood grip. I decided to try to make some black walnut grips for it. Made 3 so far.. none as nice as I'd like, but getting better.
I have to say I so grateful to have you all in my corner lately. Not enough hours in a day for all I want to do. I feel blessed that your all here and your my coin family. I’m working hard planting seeds and helping others I might begin to start listing more on eBay.my entire operation is self funded.
Comments
Kathy, you have been quite productive! This time off for me has been very good and bad for my business. Good because I have had time to slow down enough to find and patch the holes in my business accounts. Lots of unnecessary bills, interest payments, and late fees. Along with time to find new vendors with better pricing and evaluating employee performance.
Bad because business is down 50% but after this is over I will be much stronger because of it, provided we survive it.
@yosclimber said: And I have been working on a nonlinear statistics problem (Multinomial Logit with Quasi-Complete Separation).
What the hell does that even mean
@jmlanzaf what’s your poison? USO?
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
futures contract.
I actually bought 2 June contracts at 8:00 this morning. I sold one at 10:00 because it was up $900. I"m sitting on the other one.
It's actually a case of contango. The oil price quoted is the May contract which expires tomorrow. But there is so much oil out there, no one has any way to store it. So the May contract is at $8 and dropping fast. If you have storage capacity, you will make a killing because oil should be back up near $20 by Wednesday when they are quoting the June contract.
It's a really odd situation. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it. The June contract is currently selling for $22.70 while the May contract is at $5.90!!!!
That's right. Oil for May delivery is currently selling at under $6 per barrel!!!! All because of storage costs.
The oil price quoted is the May contract which expires tomorrow. But there is so much oil out there, no one has any way to store it. So the May contract is at $8 and dropping fast. If you have storage capacity, you will make a killing because oil should be back up near $20 by Wednesday when they are quoting the June contract.
I can't find even a barrel on the BST!
Yes. Rejoined this forum after ten years.
Learning how to teach classes online.
Yes, look;
My wife's doing a great job. Lol
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.LOL. Current price NEGATIVE 13 cents. LOL. June price still $22.
It's a weird expiration trick. You are going to see oil down 99% today and then go up 2000% on Wednesday. Kind of weird
Check it out now I finished my dark room in light room if you haven’t seen it online you’ve got to check this out it is the coolest thing at least I think so and I made it all by myself not complete but works and functions 100% with my new MU 1000 camera to take this beautiful picture because I need to always have to have a picture in there
Best place to buy !
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A lot of your photos have subtle (and some not so subtle) political advertising.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
No kidding. The very last thing we need now.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am building a Ho sale layout section. Not a full layout but it’s fun 👍
I'm still very unproductive.
Sure. Just pulled up one of my old threads from 2002!
HO scale.
Oil is a dying business. You should invest in hydrogen fuel cells and power storage.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
Busier than ever but unfortunately never sent to isolation. I wish they would isolate me 6 months or even a year. I'd never come close to have everything done on the homestead nor would I have even noticed I'd been "isolated".
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I finally changed the chain on my Pole Chain Saw! Also, Broke down and finally bought a NEW can of Acetone after 4 years!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I wrote a newsletter about my journey and will be on the Wayne Dupree show Friday night. I think it’s a call in. Runs 6-9pm so if it happens and I get the call for the line up will let you all get a chuckle but wrote my first news letter with you all in mind
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KUTEW5_ZfDgIHH6jwtHgpItMQdrYbtTK89y6EmzRVE/edit
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Bronze Associate member
Hydrogen fuel cells are not an energy source. They are an energy storage medium. The hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water. How do you generate the electricity? Currently, that is still largely fossil fuels.
Are any of the transport businesses even playing with fuel cells anymore? What's the overall energy efficiency of the supposedly "green" energy media? You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
Oil has been a "dying business" since the 1970s. I'll be dead before oil is replaced.
Check your math. One American silver dollar per month over 34 years is a total of 408 coins. At $20 per coin, that's $8160 not $1.4 million????? Even if you bought 100 per month, that's a total of $816,000 not $1.4 million.
Sorry Mike but I’m busy and perhaps I can have my private home office be just that. I should me mindful as I see some still are allowing silly things to become issues. Not meant in anyway to hurt your sole mind or feeling. So I will crop some for you. I don’t care about politics I leave that to the media mega billions. To worry about my family speak diff languages have diff outter organ tissue shades but we agree to ignore diff and llove all life. everyone no natter the skin think thin. I worked hard and created a great space others. Can now duplicate that’s just me. I’m happy and human. Flawed as are we all. Did you all get snow last week?
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
There is either something wrong with the math here or SOMETHING!! There are only 412 months that have passed since 1986 SO HOW IS IT THAT IF a person that bought "one American silver dollar" a month SPENT $40,000?
WHAT FOLLOWS IS A QUOTE FROM YOUR NEWSLETTER---
If you bought a American Silver dollar one a month (under 100) from 1986 to now you would have spent around 40K but the Silver coins would be worth 1.4M today!
I checked the hosts math and value on the releases but I don’t get ASE ms70 proofs for 20 bucks I get them for 65 from the mint before grading and you are forgetting to check the prices of each coin in year released. This info been verified by the powers above those with strong hands.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Pure unmitigated nonsense (or maybe propaganda), especially for people with solar roofs.
Great work. We see other countries get months off regularly. I am feeling so blessed that our country is banning together and helping others
It is getting hard being alone for my dog. She took me for a few tumbles last few Walks. I even thought I broke my foot but a few days rest and ice fixed me up just fine.
Like I say if you haven’t failed at anything you’re not trying hard enough obviously when I did my little camera demonstration with my new trinocular and MU 1000 I wasn’t conscious enough to get rid of the hurtful information somebody might see in the background but I don’t have time like that because I got to pay the bills so I was just trying to demonstrate that’s what’s on my wall sorry we’re all human our way so next time I’ll try to be conscious and I have my T flag curtains up oh well next time I’ll try to make sure somebody cant zoom in and see some offensive T dogs LOL but that’s human right ,we all try nothing would be wrong. trying and failing is in every success story.
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There you have it - that's the answer!!
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
While this thread has been somewhat fascinating (with or without the red hat), I'm sorry to say Kathy's link in her sigline is borderline... well, just read below:
Actual text from the site itself:
Which Customer Membership Suits You Best?
Standard, Plus or Premium?
Or select the Restricted Customer Membership
Sales Center Only - $359 Per Year
Better... You get a better coin and even more awesome benefits seen below:
✓ 1 year Membership
✓ Buyer's Certification Training
✓ Collector’s Training
✓ Member Direct Pricing
✓ $250 Travel Savings Card
✓ 6 Months Technology Credits
✓ MS 70 Silver Eagle Coin
✓ Total Value $700+
Which Monthly AutoSaver Coin Should We Send You?
$129 Per Month
A different MS 70 or equally awesome coin every month
Nest page has you as a sponsor. I know we are all adults of sound mind, and we can choose to enroll in a program like this or not (I will not). This reminds me of the Family of Eagles thing that was running around in the late 90's - you would get "friends" to enroll to buy various weights of gold Eagles (1/10 ounce, 1/4 ounce and so on). The first person got the best price, who would then sell to the next, then to the next, all for a bit more.
I alienated more than a few co-workers who were full in on this thing when I told them no I didn't want in and why.
That is all.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
This statement from your report is not true, by a dramatic amount. Like about a factor of 200x. You seem like a nice person. I sincerely hope you are not hurting yourself or others.
"If you bought a American Silver dollar one a month (under 100) from 1986 to now you would have spent around 40K but the Silver coins would be worth 1.4M today!"
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Indeed the math that is being passed off is so far off that my jaw hit the floor.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Great idea.......have you considered building a module to NMRA standards. This way you can build modules one by one and connect them to creat a layout. I’m hoping in retirement to start a 15x20 foot layout in HO.
Best of luck and enjoy. Great hobby as well.
@air4mdc I was actually thinking of starting out a module and when I get the chance I can add on 👍. It’s a standard plywood 24in x 24in from Lowe’s so I think it’s possible to make several and put them together. The only barriers is space. If I can find room, expanding the layout may be possible but for now I got to finish what I am working on now. I have updates though
There's a few on YouTube that does this work. Its interesting to see what they use to make it look realistic.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Numerous studies have shown the higher carbon footprint for electric cars. Google it. Car and driver did a piece in it within the last 2 years. There's also technical parties on the subject. > @CoinJunkie said:
Do your research. Unless you get your electricity from nuclear, solar or wind power, the carbon footprints of electric cars are equivalent to conventional but at much higher cost.
https://wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/
https://carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change
https://interestingengineering.com/a-tesla-model-3-produces-more-co2-than-a-diesel-car-study-says
408 coins in Proof 70 (not MS70 proofs, whatever that is) works out to $3400 PER COIN. To get to $40,000 in expenses you have to be spending $100 per month, not one coin per month. Now, I'm not sure what you were buying in 1986 for your $100, maybe 5 proofs or 10 uncs, but there is no way that math works out.
If you bought uncs averaging $10 per coin which are now $20 per coin, your $40,000 is now $80,000 not $1.4 million.
If you bought proofs averaging $20 per coin then you have 2000 proofs that today are running about $40 per coin raw which is still $80,000.
If you bought proofs averaging $20 per coin and you spent $20 per coin to slab them and 100 PERCENT OF THEM were PF 70, you have 1000 PR70 eagles for your $40,000. To get to $1.4 million, each of those coins have to be worth $1400. They are NOT, in ANY priceguide. The 1995-W is the most expensive and you wouldn't even have one of those because of how it was sold. There are only 2 proof 70 coins besides the 1995-W that are over $500 and none over $1000.
No offense, but your undermine your credibility with this claim.
And, for the record, turning $40,000 into $80,000 over 34 years is about a 2% annual return on investment.
I think the moderators really need to look at this thread and shut down the MLM game here. We've moved beyond subtly promoting a business to intentionally engaging in a highly deceptive marketing pitch. Most of the denizens of this forum are too experienced and sophisticated to fall for it, but if even one newbie gets sucked into buying American silver eagles from 7k metals, it is one too many.
I would like to see some of your progress as you go along if you don’t mind, you can PM me. Your artwork is very good as well.
You're taking the results of a single (disputed and flawed) study done in Germany and making a blanket declaration. That's what the headlines of those articles are based on, and they all go on to disclaim it in the text.
The only potentially salient point is that the mining of rare elements for batteries creates polluted earth, but our argument is about carbon footprint. Furthermore, fracking creates a ton of ancillary pollution as well.
But thanks for playing.
This is awesome...you are awesome for being so creative!!!
We need a theme song during this period of isolation in our lives. John Lennon.
https://youtu.be/3GBDN3G0QoU
There are numerous such studies. How many do you want me to post? The point is not that over the long haul the electric isn't cleaner. The point is that, especially if your local power generation is coal-based, you only win over the long haul.
And that "win" comes at a high price based on the price differential between a 50 mpg economy car and an electric car. As a result, you are a decade or two away from gas-powered vehicles being overtaken by electrics, which was the original point: Oil is far from dead.
It is simply not as direct or obvious as people want you to think.
https://thegreenage.co.uk/tech/environmental-footprint-electric-cars/
shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Shades-of-Green-Full-Report.pdf
https://www.businessinsider.com/building-electric-cars-how-much-pollution-versus-gas-powered-vehicles-2019-11
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/05/15/are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660/
@onastone I think this one is more conducive to the current situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_1ruZWJigo
Feel free to post as many flawed studies as you want. It doesn't bolster your argument. I haven't read this latest batch but the previous group were pure clickbait.
You reinforce this by mentioning coal which is dying in spite of idiotic politicians trying to save it.
And you cap it off with the strawman "oil is far from dead". The point I was arguing was your claim of having to drive an EV 200k miles to yield carbon savings over an ICE.
Oil is still alive due to cost and infrastructure issues, but those will be solved in time.
t depends on the car you use for comparison. Actually, I think the 200k isn't so much the carbon as the cost savings. Oil is far from dead is not a straw man, it was the original point. This all stemmed from my statement that I would (and did) buy oil at $12 because it couldn't stay there. Your response was that I should invest in hydrogen fuel cells instead.
Your bias (and arrogance) are fully noted. It should be possible to carry on a civilized discussion without the attitude. I won't even bother to wave my credentials at you. I also avoided posting more scientific studies because of the audience.
The most important point is simply this: the carbon cost of production is a major component of the total carbon footprint of any vehicle. Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Most studies suggest that even with moderate to low-carbon production of electricity it takes 18 months to 2 years to make up the difference in production carbon. It takes far longer to make up the $ cost difference.
All of these studies depend on the comparison vehicle. If you compare a full electric to an SUV, it looks better for electric. If you compare full electric to an efficient compact car, it looks less good.
And electricity generation methods are key. In 5 of 31 Chinese provinces, electric vehicles actually have a HIGHER carbon footprint than gas-powered vehicles due to the heavy use of coal.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261919316101?casa_token=781TKHcXBOYAAAAA:7O6cevjdqEQDBpPmlcfn68Pz0d5jSI_zbhcgE4zw18jluHWS6Qj7Fmb2jMDnDjTsn0Axx_eZ
You stated:
You have to drive a Tesla close to 200,000 miles before it you even start to lower your carbon footprint.
which is the entirety of what I called "nonsense". Given that, anything about how long oil is likely to be with us is diversionary (i.e., a strawman). I also said nothing about hydrogen cells.
Now you state:
Further, it is inarguable that the carbon cost of production of electric cars is significantly higher than gas-powered vehicles.
Here's the most rigorous and authoritative assessment I could find on the topic, published by The Union of Concerned Scientists:
https://ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf
I refer you to page 3:
A full-size long-range (265 miles per charge) BEV, with its larger battery, adds about six tons of emissions, which increases manufacturing emissions by 68 percent over the gasoline version. But this electric vehicle results in 53 percent lower overall emissions compared with a similar gasoline vehicle (see Figure ES-2).
In other words, the extra emissions associated with electric vehicle production are rapidly negated by reduced emissions from driving. Comparing an average midsize midrange BEV with an average midsize gasoline-powered car, it takes just 4,900 miles of driving to “pay back”—i.e., offset—the extra global warming emissions from producing the BEV. Similarly, it takes 19,000 miles with the full-size long-range BEV compared with a similar gasoline car. Based on typical usages of these vehicles, this amounts to about six months’ driving for the midsize midrange BEV and 16 months for the full-size long-range BEV.
Again, as I mentioned somewhere above, the 200,000 miles was the cost recovery not the carbon recovery. I mixed them up. Never type in the middle of the night.
My latest quarantine project. I went and bought a cheap 22 revolver when this mess started, and it came with an ugly cheap red wood grip. I decided to try to make some black walnut grips for it. Made 3 so far.. none as nice as I'd like, but getting better.
My wife says I'm doing just fine...
I have to say I so grateful to have you all in my corner lately. Not enough hours in a day for all I want to do. I feel blessed that your all here and your my coin family. I’m working hard planting seeds and helping others I might begin to start listing more on eBay.my entire operation is self funded.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member