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Is this old (dollar?) coin from my thrift store worth anything (it might even be real silver) ????

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Comments

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    👍

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seriously. I mean, congrats on having the least interesting variety of arguably the least interesting series in the history of US coinage. > @DFrohman said:

    Some "Prototype Trivia" ....
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    The three-known prototypes (of which this is the "discovery coin") were all purchased for essentially face value.
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    That would likely make them the three single most valuable coins ever found for essentially face value in circulation within the history of the United States (with the possible exception of the 1943 copper cents). The public fair-market value of the prototypes is still an abstraction so I can't say for certain, but I think that will change in 2021.
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    Remarkably, one of the three was purchased on e-bay for under $100.00, possibly making it the most valuable "find" in e-bay history!
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    Working prototypes simply don't exist in private hands, much less used for "The Birth of Americas Last Silver Dollar!"
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    Hmmmm, that would make a catchy phrase (smile!) for a banner drapped over the roof of the Philadelphia mint where these were born, during the anniversary year of 2021.
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    David

    There was a person posting here a few years ago who had "discovered" "the" "most" "rare" "item" "ever" "minted" "by" "the" "US Mint".

    With much drama and fanfare, it was revealed to be the presidential medal of someone. So, yeah, maybe? Only a few were made. That made them very rare, and, yes, they were minted by the US mint.

    Problem is that nobody cared.

    Despite his effort at hype and excitement. I can't even recall the circumstances. That's how uninteresting it was.

    FWIW: This amazing discovery has already been discussed, with the entirely plausible suggestion that this instantly recognizable and wildly different and exciting prototype resulted from test dies being recycled by the mint.

    So. I mean. Collect what you like. Hype what you want to hype. If you discovered them, good on you. But suggesting that these pieces could be the most valuable find on eBay history is a pretty bold assertion.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    I guess I will just stick with my uninteresting items like this, then!

    :D:D:D

  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's your estimated value of your coin?

    Trade $'s
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020 2:17PM

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    Thank you for your question, "Tennesse Dave"!
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    I did need to establish an initial valuation during the conservation work, and the comparable I arrived at was the
    "Baker" prototype of the 1921 Peace dollar. Ironically, it was also produced exactly 50 years prior to the Eisenhower dollar prototype to likewise help determine striking pressure, and initially sold for $129,250.00 at Bowers in 2014.
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    Also, like the "Baker" Peace dollar prototype, the Eisenhower dollar prototype was literally one of the first few examples ever struck of a major American coin series! How many coins in private hands can we say that about!
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    I believe that the Baker prototype then resold five years later for $192,000.00, and here is a link to that Heritage auction:
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    https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-peace-dollars/1922-1-high-relief-sandblasted-antique-finish-judd-2018-r8-sp64-pcgs-secure/a/1291-4604.s
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    In terms of a current 2020 valuation, if the Eisenhower prototype's comparable is now valued at $192,000.00, then I would likewise assign a matching valuation to it as well. However, time will tell!
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    David
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    :D:D:D

  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020 4:31PM

    @DFrohman said:
    In all seriousness, I own this example of the prototype (the "Discovery" coin). My sense of humor at work!

    OK, then, how about this ...

    A guy walks into a bar with an 1804 dollar ...

    He should have ducked?

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @WinLoseWin said:

    @DFrohman said:
    In all seriousness, I own this example of the prototype (the "Discovery" coin). My sense of humor at work!

    OK, then, how about this ...

    ** A guy walks into a bar with an 1804 dollar ... **

    He should have ducked?

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    No, that is only when the guy walks into a bar holding a duck!
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    :D:D:D

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020 4:43PM

    I think you'd have to look at comparable coins to determine value prior to sale.

    I would guess they are worth anywhere between the 1922 High Relief Matte Proof peace dollar ($330,000 @HA 2014 FUN Signature)...

    ... and the 2000 Cheerios dollar PCGS MS68 pop top ($6200 on eBay, 11-30-19) . Or perhaps the 2000 Goodacre dollar is a better comparison at about $500.

    Whole lot of similarities between the Ikes and the Sackies. I'm just sayin'.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020 2:14PM

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  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    I think you'd have to look at comparable coins to determine value prior to sale.

    I would guess they are worth anywhere between the 1922 High Relief Matte Proof peace dollar ($330,000 @HA 2014 FUN Signature)...

    ... and the 2000 Cheerios dollar PCGS MS68 pop top ($6200 on eBay, 11-30-19) . Or perhaps the 2000 Goodacre dollar is a better comparison at about $500.

    Whole lot of similarities between the Ikes and the Sackies. I'm just sayin'.

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020 2:15PM

    I'm certainly jealous (oh, never mind ... I'm the one who owns the prototype)!
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    B)B)B)

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020 5:49PM

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  • darth_morgandarth_morgan Posts: 192 ✭✭✭✭

    David- not everyone can appreciate this coin for what it is, and I get that. For any Ike Dollar aficionado, this is the holy grail, with the '71-S Type 1 reverse proof a close second (IMO). Enjoy owning this remarkable piece, my friend. It's got a good home. :)

    My Eisenhower Dollar Complete Variety Set, Circulation Strikes and Proof (PCGS Registry):
    https://www.PCGS.com/SetRegistry/dollars/eisenhower-dollars-specialty-sets/eisenhower-dollars-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-proof-1971-1978/publishedset/119137

    Darth Morgan - "The Other Ike Dollars" Showcase: https://www.PCGS.com/setregistry/showcase/3354

    The Eisenhower Dollar Meeting Room: https://www.facebook.com/groups/933585237044733

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @darth_morgan said:
    David- not everyone can appreciate this coin for what it is, and I get that. For any Ike Dollar aficionado, this is the holy grail, with the '71-S Type 1 reverse proof a close second (IMO). Enjoy owning this remarkable piece, my friend. It's got a good home. :)

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    Great to hear from you, "Darth", and I appreciate your comments!

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DFrohman said:
    Hey, gang, how do you edit your own post after uploading it?

    Thanks!

    David

    Click on the small gear-icon in the upper right of your post (to the right of the timestamp).
    Lance.

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020 2:17PM

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  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    "Darth", I was just reviewing your PCGS Ike registry set, and your 1971-D "Proof Planchet" pieces are superb!! I needed sunglasses to view them!!

    David
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    <3<3<3

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    FWIW: This amazing discovery has already been discussed, with the entirely plausible suggestion that this instantly recognizable and wildly different and exciting prototype resulted from test dies being recycled by the mint.

    That suggestion is not at all plausible. If the mint had recycled prototype dies to strike blue ikes, they would be turning up right and left.

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 2:49PM

    @IkesT said:

    @Weiss said:
    FWIW: This amazing discovery has already been discussed, with the entirely plausible suggestion that this instantly recognizable and wildly different and exciting prototype resulted from test dies being recycled by the mint.

    That suggestion is not at all plausible. If the mint had recycled prototype dies to strike blue ikes, they would be turning up right and left.

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    That is correct, "IkesT", and also makes common sense (but common sense is sadly uncommon)!

    ;););)

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well...Just went to the 'coin cabinet' and checked my Ikes.... I am shocked.... I do not have one of these special coins.... :D Well, I might have had one.... ;) Cheers, RickO

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 6:44AM

    @IkesT said:

    @Weiss said:
    FWIW: This amazing discovery has already been discussed, with the entirely plausible suggestion that this instantly recognizable and wildly different and exciting prototype resulted from test dies being recycled by the mint.

    That suggestion is not at all plausible. If the mint had recycled prototype dies to strike blue ikes, they would be turning up right and left.

    Sure. If anyone could tell what makes these special.

    Maybe if no more of these show up in the next 5 years, I'll have been proven wrong.

    Of course, that could also mean that nobody cared to look.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said
    Sure. If anyone could tell what makes these special.

    Maybe if no more of these show up in the next 5 years, I'll have been proven wrong.

    Of course, that could also mean that nobody cared to look.

    LOL - You've already proven yourself wrong.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:

    @Weiss said
    Sure. If anyone could tell what makes these special.

    Maybe if no more of these show up in the next 5 years, I'll have been proven wrong.

    Of course, that could also mean that nobody cared to look.

    LOL - You've already proven yourself wrong.

    You're doing it wrong: Set you clock for 5 years, then come back and post "LOL". I'll be sure to be disappointed.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DFrohman

    One interesting point you brought up that I hadn't heard discussed before is the hazing on the prototype coins due to pliofilm exposure. That would certainly seem to be a strong indication that they were originally housed in blue packs, which had been a debated issue.

    If/when another prototype is found, it would be great if the discoverer would take photographs for posterity and document the coin in its original packaging (assuming a packaged specimen can be found). That's an important & interesting part of the Ike prototype story and it would be really great to confirm it with photographs.

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 4:32PM

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  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Well...Just went to the 'coin cabinet' and checked my Ikes.... I am shocked.... I do not have one of these special coins.... :D Well, I might have had one.... ;) Cheers, RickO

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    B)B)B)

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heck of a cherrypick slick... Seriously hope you find your pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could someone by kind enough to point out the differences in this prototype from a normal 1971-s Ike?

    thanks,
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:
    Are you related to Abe Frohman? The sausage king of Chicago.

    The first thing that popped into my head upon reading the OP.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Could someone by kind enough to point out the differences in this prototype from a normal 1971-s Ike?

    thanks,
    bob

    I believe it is really just an unusual die combo that used what ended up as a proof die on one side. The dies imparted an unusual finish which is hardly unprecedented. That said I don't think there is any real evidence that proves this to be a prototype and in my mind is more closely related to the type B and C Washington quarters. The 2000 Sacajaweas tail feathers might not be a bad comparison although we know those were preproduction. There is a lot of assumptions about an unusual die pair with these.

    I would think finding them in blue packs would discredit the theory but like with many coins, the story just bends to incorporate the few facts.

    Open minded about it though, where am i wrong?

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Honestly I never knew a coin like this existed. I must admit I thought it was a joke but I can see now I was mistaken. My apologies.
    Probably the best score of a coin on record and very cool at the same time.
    I have a couple of Ike’s but nothing near as cool as this one you’re showing.
    Welcome to the forum @DFrohman .
    CHD

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 4:46PM

    @yspsales said:
    Heck of a cherrypick slick... Seriously hope you find your pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

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    I already found it, thanks!
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    Most sincerely,
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    Slick

    :D:D:D

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Could someone by kind enough to point out the differences in this prototype from a normal 1971-s Ike?

    thanks,
    bob

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    Here are links to both an early book chapter on the prototypes, and the more recent PCGS article:

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    http://www.ikegroup.info/chapter34/chapter34.pdf
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    https://www.pcgs.com/news/two-unique-prototype-eisenhower-dollars-certified-by-pcgs

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    Enjoy!

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:
    Honestly I never knew a coin like this existed. I must admit I thought it was a joke but I can see now I was mistaken. My apologies.
    Probably the best score of a coin on record and very cool at the same time.
    I have a couple of Ike’s but nothing near as cool as this one you’re showing.
    Welcome to the forum @DFrohman .
    CHD

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    Great to be here and thanks for the nice welcome!
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    David
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    :):):)

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 11:49AM

    @Crypto said:

    @AUandAG said:
    Could someone by kind enough to point out the differences in this prototype from a normal 1971-s Ike?

    thanks,
    bob

    Open minded about it though, where am i wrong?

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    Here are links to both an early book chapter on the prototypes, and the more recent PCGS article:

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    http://www.ikegroup.info/chapter34/chapter34.pdf
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    https://www.pcgs.com/news/two-unique-prototype-eisenhower-dollars-certified-by-pcgs

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    Enjoy!
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    :):):)

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 4:47PM

    Are you related to Abe Frohman? The sausage king of Chicago.

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    Yes (and just skip the commercial after five seconds):
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HNd3qz68Zw
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    :D:D:D

  • ThreeCentSilverFLThreeCentSilverFL Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DFrohman Does this have anything to do with the origin of your coin?

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 12:16PM

    Quite possibly. At least three were sold fifty years ago in "Blue Packs"!
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    Regarding differences between the prototypes and eventual business strikes, there are many. However, the one that immediately caught my eye was the moon on the reverse, which is both indistinct and nearly identical to the original Galvanno at the "Eisenhower Museum" in Kansas.
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    It my opinion, what appears on the prototype is almost a "place-holder", then, for the final version of the Moon(s) that would come later on the production pieces.
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    David

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, that first link is great.....I do not have one, woe is me.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    We are all here for you, Bob, and feel free to share with us exactly how you feel, ha ha!
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    On second thought ....
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    :DB)B)

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 1:26PM

    The original "Galvano" of the Eisenhower dollar, discovered in a box at the Eisenhower Museum in Kansas specifically while doing research on the prototypes!
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  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 4:48PM

    @IkesT said:
    @DFrohman

    One interesting point you brought up that I hadn't heard discussed before is the hazing on the prototype coins due to pliofilm exposure. That would certainly seem to be a strong indication that they were originally housed in blue packs, which had been a debated issue.

    If/when another prototype is found, it would be great if the discoverer would take photographs for posterity and document the coin in its original packaging (assuming a packaged specimen can be found). That's an important & interesting part of the Ike prototype story and it would be really great to confirm it with photographs.

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    Two of the three were found still sealed in their "Blue Packs", and at least one of the original finders saved the "Blue Pack" envelope from which they removed the prototype.
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    My coin (the discovery coin, which was found in a tube of Eisenhower dollars at the Long Beach show in 2008) still had the classic "Blue Pack" pilofilm haze on it. It was that haze that the PCGS conservation lab studied (and then removed) over a project lasting many months.
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    The PCGS team even brought in outside metalological analysis experts to run elemential analysis on two of the three prototypes (those mentioned in the recent PCGS article on the prototypes).
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    That said, if anyone should ever again find a prototype in its "Blue Pack", please keep it in the packaging. This has been a public service announcement.
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    B)B)B)

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Can you make short a video showing the coin? I'd like to see how it looks in hand.

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    Here you go (and just click on the "Skip Commercial" after five seconds):
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79TVMn_d_Pk

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 2:56PM

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    Here are images of the prototype in the condition that I acquired it. This is prior to conservation, and clearly shows the original pilofilm hazing (sorry for the low-resolution). Would you have recognized this as a prototype in "the wild?
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    Is it a 40% silver uncirculated coin? Is it a 40% silver proof coin? Or is it in reality some strange hybrid of both (smile)? Now imagine finding this in a tube of generic Eisenhower dollars on a dealer's table at the 2008 Long Beach show!
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    Price: $5.00 or so (spot silver)!
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    And here is the prototype AFTER the superb conservation work by PCGS removed the haze, and revealed the original semi-prooflike surfaces again after many decades:
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    An amazing improvement, and one that led to an increase in grade to SP-67. The surfaces are essentially flawless when viewed in person, and the coin is actually a "blast white" with heavy die-polishing lines (not visible here). The dark shading here is just that, caused by the semi-prooflike surfaces.
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    This coin was literally hand-finished and burred likely for Gasparro's personal use!
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    David
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    :):):)

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK. I already checked all my '71 Ikes but for the life of me I don't remember what the PUP is.

    Tempus fugit.
  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 2:14PM

    @cladking said:
    OK. I already checked all my '71 Ikes but for the life of me I don't remember what the PUP is.

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    It depends where you get your puppy from, and whether it has had its shots! I am actually partial to the "Philadelphian Bald-Headed Prototypius" variety myself (but make sure that it has been carefully inspected and de-pilofilmed first)!
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    B)B)>:)

  • gonzergonzer Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why was the Earth engraved looking incomplete and not wholly round? Even on the master galvano? Has that ever been given an explanation?

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020 4:22PM

    @gonzer said:
    Why was the Earth engraved looking incomplete and not wholly round? Even on the master galvano? Has that ever been given an explanation?

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    Thank you for your excellent question!
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    I suspect that the design of the Earth was just as you said, incomplete, and essentially used as a "place-filler" with very little detail until strike testing (among other tests) could be completed. Only after that was done would it be apparent what design would "strike-up" fully, given the hardness of the copper-nickel.
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    Please keep in mind that the Eisenhower dollar is the largest copper-nickel coin ever struck by the United States, and a technical marvel that stands even today!
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    Finally, keep in mind that even after production began the design of the Earth was continuely being refined.
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    For example, refined via the landmark 1971-D "Friendly Eagle" (the very first Eisenhower dollar ever struck, and in the basement of the Denver mint over the first few weeks of production no less), the 1972 and 1976 "Type 1, 2," and so on.
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    David

  • DFrohmanDFrohman Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020 2:20PM

    Ah, I digress, but speaking of the 1971-D "Friendly Eagle" Eisenhower Dollar ....
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    These were the very first Eisenhower dollars ever struck for circulation, which occured in the basement of the Denver mint over the first few weeks of production. As such, these were likewise the first dollar coins ever struck for circulation since the United States produced its last silver Peace dollar in 1935!
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    In my opinion, they are also among the most historic Eisenhower dollars ever struck for circulation (and try finding one graded above MS-66)!
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    And, unlike the 1972 "Type 2" (discovered by Herb Hicks shortly after being struck in 1972), the "Friendly Eagle" was not discovered until the late 1990s, when many of them were no longer pristine.
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    Further, it is believed that only 300,000 - 500,000 or so were struck, which is not much more then the 1972 "Type 2".
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    Compare the number of 1972 "Type 2" Eisenhower dollars graded by PCGS and NGC combined (in uncirculated condition) with those of the 1971-D "Friendly Eagle" (now finally recognized as "Type 1" by the services). I think that you will be shocked, and which is the truly rare coin will become apparent.
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    Also, forget about trying to spot them by the eagle's brow; rather, simply look at the shape of the Gulf of Mexico (which is round on the "Friendly Eagle").
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    David
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  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @crypto said
    Open minded about it though, where am i wrong?

    Everywhere, but let me explain :)
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    I believe it is really just an unusual die combo that used what ended up as a proof die on one side. The dies imparted an unusual finish which is hardly unprecedented.

    The coin has neither a business strike nor a proof finish - it has a specimen finish, hence the "SP" designation on the PCGS grade. Some modern mint set coins are made with a specimen finish (e.g., special mint set coins), but outside of those sets, any U.S. coin with a specimen finish is extremely rare.
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    That said I don't think there is any real evidence that proves this to be a prototype and in my mind is more closely related to the type B and C Washington quarters.

    The Type B and C reverses on Washington quarters are reverse design varieties that are found regularly on business strike and/or proof coins. On some dates, these reverse designs can be hard to find.

    In contrast, the obverse and reverse of the prototype Ikes are both of a unique design that is not found on any business strike or proof coins.
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    The 2000 Sacajaweas tail feathers might not be a bad comparison although we know those were preproduction. There is a lot of assumptions about an unusual die pair with these.

    Yes, the 2000 P Cheerios dollar is in the same category, because both it and the 1971-S Ike prototypes are examples of pattern coins with designs that differ from normal business strike & proof coinage. In the case of the Cheerios dollar, only the reverse has a pattern design - the obverse design matches normal business strike & proof coins.
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    I would think finding them in blue packs would discredit the theory but like with many coins, the story just bends to incorporate the few facts.

    No. A very small number of prototype Ikes (only 3 known, so far) somehow made their way into blue packs. If the prototype dies were put into regular production for making blue ikes, hundreds of thousands of coins would have been minted, and every Ike collector would have found them by now.

    How and why these very few prototype Ikes got into blue packs is a real mystery, and one of the most facinating parts of this story.

    While this is pure speculation on my part, I would like to think that Frank Gasparro managed to sneak a few of the best prototype Ikes into the population of regular blue ikes. The prototype Ikes are stunning to look at - perhaps the finest Ikes ever made - and I suspect he would have been loath to see all of them destroyed, which is what was supposed to have happened.

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