Starting a large cent collection
ReadyFireAim
Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭✭
This will be set #2 for me.
My saint set progress is basically at a stop while I save for a 1929.
I can divert a little money because I've been very well disciplined 
I've been reading everything I can find online & just ordered my first book off the ferengi here know as Opportunity.
Anything else you EAC experts can recommend would be great.
It looks like there is a lot more to more to know about them than saints.
My 1st coin & sort of an impulse purchase.
For now, I only intend to collect from 1793 to 1799 which would be 10 coins total, 60% in the VF range.
PCGS 1798 VF35BN 2nd hairstyle
$1500 from FriscoMint (PCGS price $1,400)
So how did I do? 
14
Comments
You will need deep pockets to do this. Take your time. Any coin dated 17XX is special, but many/most of the large cents of this era have problems, like corrosion/pitting/porous surfaces. Many will have bad marks too, or sections that were not fully struck. Be aware that many coins have been worked on, particularly having been burnished and/or recolored, and adjust your expectations accordingly. Do not simply rely on grades on slabs---I have seen lots of altered coins that got past graders.
Before you spend any more money, buy a copy of the Grading Guide for Early American Copper Coins (available from WIzard) and read it carefully.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
While it looks like a nice example and I certainly could have missed some relevant results, a quick look at auction archives didn’t turn up any that had sold for more than $1250, from 2018 to the present. Hopefully, any reported sale(s) at $1250 didn’t include the buyer’s premium.
I’m guessing that you’d done your research and were already aware of the above.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Good luck on the set.
"It looks like there is a lot more to more to know about them than saints."
Indeed. The quality of the metal, the inherent chemical reactivity of the metal, pre-industrial era conditions (no steam-powered coin presses!), large number of varieties, etc., all make large cents of this era tough to find in pleasing conditions. When large cents were discontinued in 1857, nostalgia for these caused prices to surge for the early dates. Over the years, soaring prices of early date coins have driven large cent collectors to more affordable middle and late date coins.
Most of the better-looking coins are in the hands of a small number of dealers, so make an effort to regularly search their fixed-price websites and auctions.
Unless you intend to spend a significant amount of time looking at early coppers, do not buy raw coins. Regardless, surface quality will be a big deal. These coins also come in a variety of colors (black-brown-tan-reddish-green) and many have been darkened to hide alterations.
You will come across 'commercial' grades and EAC-style net grades. The grading philosophies are somewhat different, and the latter tend to be much less forgiving. Neither is scientific, however. Do not confuse pricing for these--you cannot expect an EAC net-graded coin to be priced at a level similar to a PCGS (or NGC)-graded coin. The former will almost always be much higher.
Good luck.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Very nice coin! ... and good luck putting your collection together.
Surface issues are the undoing of many folks who buy these coins. Be careful and be much more patient than you expect to be with respect to acquiring satisfactory coins.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Done...
And I also bought this one...
America's Copper Coinage 1783-1857
So, does the coin look burnished & colored?
I was thinking it looks a little too smooth to be %100 original.
Not worried about the grade or a few hundred.
I know I have to pay up for choice. (but is it EAC choice?)
My Saint Set
I'm not an expert in these, but I do like the look of your coin. Good luck on the quest for the other 9!
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
That looks like an excellent choice to start with. If you use that as an example of the condition you strive to find for in the rest of your set it will be a great accomplishment imho. Good luck and have fun!
Large Cents are way cool.
In fact Large Cents are my favorite series minus the fact that I can't afford them.
For what it's worth, I think you did well above average for a first time purchase. Your coin appears to be quite nice with great surfaces, and not easy to find as such.
TomB nailed the biggest challenge in large cent collecting -- you need lots of patience to find the right coins. Said a bit differently, copper is far harder than gold to find nice.
I would add one recommendation: Find a good large cent-collecting mentor (or three). There is no substitute for experience, but a mentor can sure help.
Good luck in building your collection...Mike
I’m totally enraptured with Draped Bust Large Cents.
My one piece of advice: form a profile in advance of the type or types of coins you’re seeking and don’t be distracted by what’s printed on the slab. There are butt-ugly straight-graded early LCs out there and there are gorgeous details coins. Some of those straight-graded will leave you scratching your head and some in details holders will have you convinced the grader was angry and blind on the day.
FM, by the way, has an amazing inventory but never any bargains (IMHO).
Enjoy!
Smitten with DBLCs.
Sonoradesertrat is a long time early copper collector / aficianado, and knows his stuff. I might add that the most unstable coinage is pre 1815. I had a Draped Bust Half Cent in MS 65 BN start to develop PVC 8 years after it was holdered. Due to the problems with planchets of this period, as well as the strikes, what may be market acceptable to some people may not be such to others.
After my experience, I personally will not buy a pre 1815 copper unless it's in a PCGS OGH, which means I'll probably never buy another one. But that's just me.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I love me some large copper coinage. World economic conditions is reflected in the size of large cents/pennies from kopeks to cartwheels to EAC. Enjoy your journey and thanks for sharing. Peace Roy
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Nice first pickup, and good look with these wonderful coins.
Since you already have been giving a number of tips, I'll add that you may want to peruse the current Goldberg auction catalogs, as they have several
astounding collections up for auction right now (Pre-Long Beach). These present some wonderful educational opportunities, as the write ups are generally fairly extensive, and will compare 'slab' grades with EAC grades.
https://www.goldbergcoins.com/content/
Do you browse Frisco Mint?
That is a very nice looking large cent.... I am not an expert, or even a reasonably schooled collector of them....I do, however, like them.... always impressed with cents that have survived for over 200 years. Good luck...Cheers, RickO
Some additional books that may be helpful, or at least entertaining:
Boka, JA/Provenance Gallery of 1794 Large Cents
Breen, W (Borckardt, M, Ed.)/Walter Breen’s Encyclopedia of Early United States
Large Cents, 1793 - 1814
Durst, SJ (Ed.)/Early American Coppers Anthology
Logies, MA/Portraits of Liberty: The Large Cents of the United States Illustrated by the
Cardinal Collection
Noyes, WC/Penny Prices: A Price Guide for 1793 - 1857 Half Cents and Large Cents (latest ed.). Has EAC pricing.
Noyes, WC/United States Large Cents, 1793 – 1814. If you are serious, and fall in love with early coppers, get his subsequent six-volume set on large cents.
Noyes, WC, Bland, D, & Demeo, D/The Official Condition Census for United States Large
Cents, 1793 – 1839. This is of qualitative use.
Sheldon, WH (with Paschal DI & Breen W)/Penny Whimsy. This documents the beginnings of EAC-style net grading, and you will also see pitfalls. There is a degree of subjectivity no matter what grading method is used.
Smith, P/EAC Guide to Early American Coppers
Coinage of the Americas Proceedings, Vol.12: America’s Large Cent (Kleeberg, JM, Ed.)
Older books, going back into the late 19th century, do exist, but are of little real help unless you want to delve into early collecting history. Don't ignore catalogs! Some of them have lots of interesting tidbits besides images of coins.
And join the EAC!
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I have the large cent type coins and have begun to dabble with a one a year date set. I have been buying the late dates of late in Choice AU to MS-64, Brown.
The die variety collecting is really hard. The Sheldon variety collectors are well healed and closely knit when it comes to the nice coins. Lower grade, problem stuff is less expensive, but I don’t enjoy that sort of thing. My tastes run to VF and better. I can admire a great rarity in low grade, if that’s all there is, which is true for some varieties, but I’m not sure I would ever spend many thousands of dollars on it.
The middle dates (1816 - 1839) are more collectible, and there are a couple of good books. One by John Wright, which is very well written and laid out.
To be frank the late dates (1840 - 1857), Newcomb varieties give me a headache. The differences are minor, and I have no interest in them.
I collected half cents by die variety in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was a fun pastime, but I hit a wall and could go no further. The major collectors had all of the rare coins, and they were not selling at that time. If I had waited 20 to 25 years, my time would have come. If you were lucky, you could buy a problem piece for a lot of money, but that was it. I gave up the collection in the mid 1990s and used to proceeds as seed money when I became a dealer.
Large cents can be fun, and there is a great deal of research, established and on-going, connected with them. You just have remember than some items are seldom available, and unless you are going to go up against the big dogs in the major copper auctions, you won’t get them.
I enjoy the history of these coins more than the die variety collecting, but that’s been my focus for most of my time as a collector. The history is cheaper to acquire and for me more satisfying.
I'm also assembling a date run of large cents from 1793 to 1857 (click on my registry set sig line if you want), and the early dates are definitely a bear and a third. Your 1798 is a very nice coin, I have a 40 with a similar look. Of the 1700's dates, the 1798 is the easiest one to obtain in decent condition. FM is a decent seller, but a lot of his inventory is on the high side of pricing, based on auction prices. But he seems to carry very nice inventory, though some of his inventory has sat for years.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
With Early Copper knowledge gained before purchasing your first example is everything.
Plastic & Stickers alone aren't enough of a safety-net to jump into this area.
Sorry to say but your first purchase once you are no longer EAC green will become a filler not a permanent resident in your set.
I disagree.
That 1798 large cent is not a great piece, but it’s okay. It has been worked on and re-colored, but the eye is okay. Sometimes you have to buy coins like this when the great stuff is not available. I don’t think anyone would condemn this piece if it were dated 1799 or 1804. Depending on your budget, this piece is okay.
I am on an iPad and can’t post pictures. I have 1798 that some people might like more, but I paid a lot more for it too.
I agree with MikeinFl: I would add one recommendation: Find a good large cent-collecting mentor (or three). There is no substitute for experience, but a mentor can sure help.
And with TomB: Be careful and be much more patient
And with Broadstruck: With Early Copper knowledge gained before purchasing your first example is everything.
@Walkerguy21D: Thanks for the auction link. Lots of fabulous coins there. Did Doug Bird retire?
My only comment is that if you start a Large Cent collection, it's going to be a lifelong endeavor. Gratifying, interesting, and sometimes costly. But fun. Good luck!
I knew it would happen.
I've dabbled in Large Cents off and on since I was 12 years old... fast forward some 45+ years and I know enough to know that this is a serious undertaking. There's already been some good advice from some well-heeled collectors. Suffice it to say, buy the books and look at a lot of coins, but you've probably already done that...
One comment that I feel I must address is that someone suggested purchasing only slabbed coins... this will limit your selection tremendously. There are several dealers in EAC that mostly have high end pieces that are raw.
Best of luck... it's a long path!
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My first serious collection was Large cents - with a twist. You see, several years after the multi-part article dealing with Large cent overdates was published in the Numismatist, with huge images of the dates, I read the articles and I was hooked. At the time, many of these were unattributed in dealers stocks. I concentrated on the Matron and Braided types. My highest examples were VF's and none of them were expensive.
Patience is the key as you'd probably have to glance at over 4,000 wrong examples to find 1 with truly wholesome surfaces. If I attempted a set I'd go raw, as I see way too much so called market acceptable boinking in plastic.
Here the 1798 large cent that is in my on again, off again date set. It is graded AU-53, CAC. The price paid was a good deal more than the one paid for the OP coin.
I don't know that....I did not see him at FUN, but it could be that I missed him there.
Perhaps some other members know?
In general, darker coins are more likely to have been "worked on"...
I would also recommend getting a copy of this book to help you price-wise (but remember the the holder grade is not the same as the EAC grade): https://earlycoppers.com/product/penny-prices-by-william-noyes/
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
The cool thing about them is that even non collectors will appreciate them.
"That's a PENNY ??"
My GF has been worked on and she's only 50 years old.
Anyway...I put in an offer on this coin.
Nothing else in my price range seems to interest me at this time so it's back to the books.
My Saint Set