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An iconic Civil War token...with an amazing error!

DCWDCW Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Here is my latest acquisition, and it is a big one!
D. Skidmore Seneca Falls, NY-F-845A-2b Full Brockage PCGS MS65. Brass (Unique) ex. Richard Rossa Collection

These types of errors are rare on Civil War tokens, but when they happen on iconic pieces like this one it is something we exonumia geeks get very excited about. Q. Dave Bowers described this as "one of the most famous errors in the CWT series." Just a magnificent piece in hand, loaded with eye appeal.

Here is the "normal" brass version in my collection for reference: D. Skidmore Seneca Falls, NY-F-845A-1b PCGS MS64 ex. Rossa

Thank you for looking!

Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh wow! That is very cool! Congrats!

    Latin American Collection

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019 9:07PM

    Cool.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,917 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on some awesome Skidmore pieces! The full brockage is out of this world.

    Given how much of Rich's collection Bowers picked up, how could he not have picked these up? Boggles the mind!

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Congrats on some awesome Skidmore pieces! The full brockage is out of this world.

    Given how much of Rich's collection Bowers picked up, how could he not have picked these up? Boggles the mind!

    This was, in fact, a part of Dave Bowers' collection and is slabbed in with the "Q. David Bowers Reference Set" label. I'm not certain, but I think he purchased Rich Rossa's entire CWT collection. If not all of it, ALL of the New York tokens. Almost without exception, they are superb gems.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,917 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @Zoins said:
    Congrats on some awesome Skidmore pieces! The full brockage is out of this world.

    Given how much of Rich's collection Bowers picked up, how could he not have picked these up? Boggles the mind!

    This was, in fact, a part of Dave Bowers' collection and is slabbed in with the "Q. David Bowers Reference Set" label. I'm not certain, but I think he purchased Rich Rossa's entire CWT collection. If not all of it, ALL of the New York tokens. Almost without exception, they are superb gems.

    Ah okay. Good to know. I didn't realize it because Bowers wasn't listed in the bold pedigree line.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice.

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    calgolddivercalgolddiver Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    outstanding

    Top 25 Type Set 1792 to present

    Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wowzer!!!!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CWT1863CWT1863 Posts: 316 ✭✭✭✭

    Those are amazing! Congrats on the acquisition.

    ANA-LM, CWTS-LM, NBS, TAMS, ANS

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,917 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pretty sweet!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice pick up

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never knew that one existed. Exciting find!

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice, I like it. I have seen other Full Brockage errors but like said not this one.
    I have yet to add an error token to my collection

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019 4:19PM

    Full brockage errors are amazing to look at and this one is exceptional. I love the condition. The eagle’s relief looks amazing. It doesn’t look incuse at all!

    These come In pairs due to how they are made, I wonder if it’s mated pair is out there waiting to be collected? I’ve seen a few full brockages out there but no pairs for Civil War Tokens yet.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins Thanks for the sentiments. It really is incredible to look at. A very strong strike which is clearly defined in its mirrored image. What a cool design to have that happen!
    I'm not sure if they in fact, do come in pairs, though.
    I've seen a few full brockage CWTs but dont recall seeing both obverse and reverse brockage for the same variety. Since the coin itself is causing the image transfer, wouldnt that preclude or make it improbable to have the same thing happen to the other side of the coin?

    This might be a question for @FredWeinberg or @ErrorsOnCoins.

    This is listed in the 3rd Edition of the Fuld Storecard book as R-10, the only one known. There is no reverse brockage listed.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019 5:49PM

    @DCW said:
    @Zoins Thanks for the sentiments. It really is incredible to look at. A very strong strike which is clearly defined in its mirrored image. What a cool design to have that happen!
    I'm not sure if they in fact, do come in pairs, though.
    I've seen a few full brockage CWTs but dont recall seeing both obverse and reverse brockage for the same variety. Since the coin itself is causing the image transfer, wouldnt that preclude or make it improbable to have the same thing happen to the other side of the coin?

    This might be a question for @FredWeinberg or @ErrorsOnCoins.

    This is listed in the 3rd Edition of the Fuld Storecard book as R-10, the only one known. There is no reverse brockage listed.

    My understanding of brockages is that the mirror image is created by a previously struck, but non-ejected coin. In which case the coin creating the mirror image would be the mated pair coin. Would love to hear more on this!

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019 5:57PM

    @Zoins Yes, but it will just look like a regular coin that was "struck" and "stuck."

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019 6:25PM

    @DCW said:
    @Zoins Yes, but it will just look like a regular coin that was "struck" and "stuck."

    I’ve seen pairs sold together. It would be interesting to hear from the experts if there are any diagnostics to tell a mated pair coin from others. If I can find the photos of the pair, I can examine them more.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    kazkaz Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is an INSANE error! Wow! thanks for posting it

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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    I never knew that one existed. Exciting find!

    That's what is great about the internet, isnt it? In the old days, you may only see something like this in the cabinet of a collector, or at a coin club meeting, or in an article or book.
    Now, we can examine unique pieces with high res photography and make new discoveries...even when they've been known for 150 years!
    Thank you for all the comments. It truly is exciting to own this rare piece and share it with all of you.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow......what a neat token! Just love the threads on these.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool CWT.... I was checking out the definitions/explanations and discovered the term 'counter brockage'...which I had not heard before.... Also covers several types that could happen, but none are known. Cheers, RickO
    http://www.error-ref.com/brockage-counterbrockage_combination_8_ways/

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