@BryceM said:
The letter transfer happened within the blue circle, and yes, I know how to make a simple overlay, thank you!
YOU STILL ARE NOT LINED UP!!
The letters on the top coin NEED TO BE REVERSED (as you have done for us) and put on top of the letters ON THE RIM of the under coin. That drops the rim CLOSER to the positions I suggested. Right? Otherwise, I'm the crazy one.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
@CaptHenway said:
I suspect that our gracious hosts will see that the coin is damaged and should not have been straight graded, and will offer to compensate the owner for their inadvertent error under their usual guarantee procedures.
I don't know....If bag marks aren't "damage", then maybe this isn't damage? (Obverse rim may be another story).
It is still a dang good looking coin!
Matter of degrees, I guess....
IMO, sending the coin back was a big mistake! UNLESS, PCGS calls it a Mint Error. I would have kept the coin until this could have been determined one way or the other. So far, I still believe the letters came AFTER the coin left the press and were not applied by the hand-of-man to make an oddity. As I wrote, that's the way this characteristic was treated in the distant past before many members posting here bought their first coin.
I am unaware of many things. One thing I am unaware of is what this coin represents. The second thing is how the "decision" we come up with here influences PCGS handling of this. There are three destinies of this coin. 2 are great, i.e. same holder or mint error. The possibility of my 250.00 investment being back in a genuine slab is not great, but I accept the risk vs. Benefit which is minimized by the guarantee. I also would not be shocked if I could sell this unique coin in a genuine slab on BST with relative ease.
I am unaware of many things. One thing I am unaware of is what this coin represents. The second thing is how the "decision" we come up with here influences PCGS handling of this. There are three destinies of this coin. 2 are great, i.e. same holder or mint error. The possibility of my 250.00 investment being back in a genuine slab is not great, but I accept the risk vs. Benefit which is minimized by the guarantee. I also would not be shocked if I could sell this unique coin in a genuine slab on BST with relative ease.
Well, if you ever feel the urge to sell, you might be best off here on the BST forum. The dang coin is FAMOUS here.
I just took a cull Morgan and laid another partially over it so the denticals would line up to the rim of the under coin. Then I wracked it with a nail hammer. Proved nothing.
PS The "bumps" on the rim are dentical impressions into the metal.
PSS This mint error is now for sale.
You need an even more explosive force -- read up on detonography
Any idea regarding valuation should this > @tradedollarnut said:
I believe them to be raised and all my assertions in this thread are based upon that belief. I guess we’ll find out soon...
Perhaps soon enough was a week ago.
Presumably mint luster in the depressions indicates incuse lettering.
From page one.
""Spoke to JA.... he said he first wanted me to contact him to confirm I was aware of the nature of the coin.
He said he believes this is not PMD, but is a mint error. He said too much pressure would be required to create the perfect lettering. He said that there was cartwheel luster throughout and the depressions had mint luster in them.
This coin is also free of bag Mark's and there are no bag marks in the area of discussion.""
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
It's ok. Just remember we will all agree if we take small steps... And if not, we can use really large font in all caps.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match the OP's coin and the overlay should look like this:
EXCEPT
The entire overlaid coin will be shown so we can see where the rims would fall one the OP's coin. Thanks in advance for the visual aids you are doing!!!
PS We won't need the circles as the may cover something.
I’m eager to hear what the experts think once they have this in hand. Until then, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said here that will be useful, at least not on my part. Happy holidays everyone.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match Thanks in advance.
I just took a cull Morgan and laid another partially over it so the denticals would line up to the rim of the under coin. Then I wracked it with a nail hammer. Proved nothing.
PS The "bumps" on the rim are dentical impressions into the metal.
PSS This mint error is now for sale.
You need an even more explosive force -- read up on detonography
Thanks, but I'm not making a counterfeit die. I'm just providing a very low cost experiment.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
LOL, I'm two days ahead of you. That's why I cannot figure out how this could happen pre-strike in the press or post-strike in the press.
BTW, I hope you have time to make the overlay I requested.
@BryceM said:
I’m eager to hear what the experts think once they have this in hand. Until then, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said here that will be useful, at least not on my part. Happy holidays everyone.
As coins cannot talk, I don't beleive that any definitive conclusion will be reached, only a best educated guess.
The safe choice is a genuine holder and I hope that that does not happen as this coin is way too cool for such an unstellar fate.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match the OP's coin and the overlay should look like this:
EXCEPT
The entire overlaid coin will be shown so we can see where the rims would fall one the OP's coin. Thanks in advance for the visual aids you are doing!!!
PS We won't need the circles as the may cover something.
The overlay BryceM made, now with two red circles and one blue circle, is exactly what you are asking for. The OP's coin regular and reversed and lined up letter to letter with the appropriate rotation to make it line up. You can see inside the blue circle that the reverse letters are lined up to the incuse rim letters. You cannot "see" the rim letters inside the blue circle because the image of the overlay is perfectly lined up over them. As BryceM stated, you can see where the rims line up in this overlayed image inside the two red circles he added. He put the circles there to point out what you are specifically asking for.
You are two days ahead of me. Check. Good to know. Oh good Lord. You still can’t see it can you..... The photo overlay you posted is just a snippet of the double overlay already presented here about a thousand times now. EVERYTHING IS POSITIONED EXACTLY THE SAME ONLY ONE OF THE TWO IMAGES IN THE OVERLAY IS PARTIALLY CROPPED.
Listen carefully. Ignore the rim letters your brain is seeing on the upper right rim of the upper right “donor” coin. I used the OPs coin FOR BOTH PHOTOS! I could have used any old Morgan reverse for the “donor” upper-right coin but getting it scaled and sized correctly would have taken more work, and a different VAM might not have lined up perfectly.
The “STATES OF” on the donor coin is lined up exactly where it appears on the rim of the receiving coin (lower left, normally oriented coin in the double overlay) PRECISELY AS YOU HAVE REQUESTED. Try to see it!
@BryceM said:
The letter transfer happened within the blue circle, and yes, I know how to make a simple overlay, thank you!
YOU STILL ARE NOT LINED UP!!
The letters on the top coin NEED TO BE REVERSED (as you have done for us) and put on top of the letters ON THE RIM of the under coin. That drops the rim CLOSER to the positions I suggested. Right? Otherwise, I'm the crazy one.
Verdict is in: you are the crazy one.
Those coins are lined up. I think the image over image is confusing people. Maybe we need to color code the top and bottom image
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match the OP's coin and the overlay should look like this:
EXCEPT
The entire overlaid coin will be shown so we can see where the rims would fall one the OP's coin. Thanks in advance for the visual aids you are doing!!!
PS We won't need the circles as the may cover something.
What you are asking him to do is to take the exact image he has and rotate it 180 degrees. It's exactly the same orientation with the top moved to the bottom and the bottom moved to the top.
What I'm asking is to take tho OP's coin with its RIM COVERED BY HIS BLUE LINE and over lay another coin with the backwards letters exactly over the OP's coin rim covered by his blue line.
I'm sorry that I cannot make my request any clearer and cannot do it myself. I posted this image of what I want.
Now, will someone please add the rest of the DARK overlay (to make it a complete coin) so we can see where the rims cut each other.
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
LOL, I'm two days ahead of you. That's why I cannot figure out how this could happen pre-strike in the press or post-strike in the press.
BTW, I hope you have time to make the overlay I requested
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'm really glad you think authentication and an educational exchange of strongly held views is funny. Fortunately there is some very serious work going on in this discussion. I hope you'll continue to enjoy it. I'll see you all tomorrow.
@Insider2 said:
What I'm asking is to take tho OP's coin with its RIM COVERED BY HIS BLUE LINE and over lay another coin with the backwards letters exactly over the OP's coin rim covered by his blue line.
I'm sorry that I cannot make my request any clearer and cannot do it myself. I posted this image of what I want.
Now, will someone please add the rest of the DARK overlay (to make it a complete coin) so we can see where the rims cut each other.
If you mentally rotate the image 180 degrees so the bottom coin is on top and the top coin is on the bottom, you will have EXACTLY THE IMAGE YOU WANT. That will NOT CHANGE THE RIM INTERSECTION POINTS AT ALL. The top coin is the lettered rim coin not the bottom coin.
The two overlays shown ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ORIENTATION. Look below:
The only thing done in the "cut down" overlay was to remove the rest of the coin.
Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering.
You can tell by the way the shadows fall INTO the letters, rather than below or next to them, that the letters are incused. It is obvious to any coin Authenticator that another coin got pressed into this one after the two coins were struck. Anything else is wishful thinking.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
This is funny. Are they looking for the overlay too?
Good Night!
No but I’ll tell you why In two days
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@CaptHenway said:
You can tell by the way the shadows fall INTO the letters, rather than below or next to them, that the letters are incused. It is obvious to any coin Authenticator that another coin got pressed into this one after the two coins were struck. Anything else is wishful thinking.
I'm starting to believe...
Tilt the "Donor" coin just slightly, and there wouldn't necessarily be any rim-to-rim contact.
Guess what threw ME off was the 1) The quality of the impression, (but I have little experience looking at this type of thing), and 2) the quality of the coin...MS-66!
To me, that quality made an intentional "squeeze job" highly unlikely. (Why ruin a perfectly nice coin?) It also seemed to make a coin-to-coin "hit" unlikely.
But, I guess, one time random, "stroke of lightning" things can happen...
@TommyType said:
Maybe this will help....concentrate:
The two overlays shown ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ORIENTATION. Look below:
The only thing done in the "cut down" overlay was to remove the rest of the coin.
Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering.
that is what insider wants, but I feel it is not pertinent if another coin is between the 2 at the bottom, as only the very top on the edge would connect with each other.
Seems to me someone could just cut up a morgan and then squeeze that small piece into the coin being discussed to minimize any damage to the rims and etc.
What bugs me is the rim problem opposite of it? Why fake an error only to damage the rim on the opposite side? To add some type of confusing condition to the coin to help add to the appearance of an authentic error?
I also cannot believe 8 pages into this post people cannot interpret the overlay and discussing if the letters are raised or incuse
Color me crazy. Like @Insider2 I'm not seeing it (the overlay) correctly either.
@TommyType said "Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering."
Edited to add: This is what I was missing. The OP's coin was used twice in the overlay. That's why the top coin had edge lettering also, but was in the opposite direction. Thanks @TommyType for clearing that up for me.
I just took a cull Morgan and laid another partially over it so the denticals would line up to the rim of the under coin. Then I wracked it with a nail hammer. Proved nothing.
PS The "bumps" on the rim are dentical impressions into the metal.
PSS This mint error is now for sale.
Hit it harder next time. LOL.
The problem with the two coin collision is THE RIM. If you overlap the coin slightly off center so that the letters in the field are over the rim, then the two coin rims will also be crossing. Everyone is focusing on the rim opposite the "error", but the real question is how you collide the lower lying field of a coin with the rim of the coin without a major collision of the rims. There should be damage on either side of the "error" on the reverse of the coin where the rims collided.
I would believe that brockard strikes, when known, in 1889 would have commonly just been recycled through the press.
The significance with this coin is that it was an "offstrike brockard" meaning the donor coin was off struck and the image on the OP coin was from an offset donor coin ( not a die). And when re-struct the detail on the perifery of the coin remained, as it was outside of the coin's denticles. The re-struct brocade coin was true to centers and the brockade issue on the rims remained.
A brockard strike would likely seize the press and require operator intervention. And the brockage "planchet" would have just been recycled through the press ( strike 2).
\
\The incused letters in the rim of the OP coin did not just happen with one strike of the press. It was due to re-introducing the offset brockade planchet again into the press. NOT PMD as the striking pressure to incuse the letters would be more significant than I can do with a 9 TR hydraulic press.
Still following this thread. Still noticing a stray Babel fish that doesn't translate well or swim well within this thread. Where 2 and 2 somehow add up to an imaginary number. Yeah, it's his world. We should feel so privileged to swim in his bubbles.
@TommyType said:
Maybe this will help....concentrate:
The two overlays shown ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ORIENTATION. Look below:
The only thing done in the "cut down" overlay was to remove the rest of the coin.
Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering.
I don't want to spoon feed the answers. It is important to come to these conclusions yourself. Now THINK how the requested image was already provided. NOTICE how the the two images are the same except that the full coin is shown and the transparency increased.
We can use a simple question or two. Let's ask ourselves, what would the image I want look likenow how does the provided image differ Perhaps even think of this as a quiz. Let's break this into a small manageable pieces to figure out one a time.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
Still following this thread. Still noticing a stray Babel fish that doesn't translate well or swim well within this thread. Where 2 and 2 somehow add up to an imaginary number. Yeah, it's his world. We should feels privileged to swim in his bubbles.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@jmlanzaf said: "If you mentally rotate the image 180 degrees so the bottom coin is on top and the top coin is on the bottom, you will have EXACTLY THE IMAGE YOU WANT. That will NOT CHANGE THE RIM INTERSECTION POINTS AT ALL. The top coin is the lettered rim coin not the bottom coin."
I'm severely challenged. Folks say that I must be blind!
Perhaps you or someone can prove your assertion with the overlay I've requested.
@TommyType said:
Maybe this will help....concentrate:
The two overlays shown ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ORIENTATION. Look below:
The only thing done in the "cut down" overlay was to remove the rest of the coin.
Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering.
THANKS ALL for your patience. I was getting very frustrated at not being able to communicate.
Tommy, your explanation was perfectly clear. Now I see what Bryce was doing. The rims cross higher than I imagined.
@CaptHenway said:
You can tell by the way the shadows fall INTO the letters, rather than below or next to them, that the letters are incused. It is obvious to any coin Authenticator that another coin got pressed into this one after the two coins were struck. Anything else is wishful thinking.
I'm starting to believe...
Tilt the "Donor" coin just slightly, and there wouldn't necessarily be any rim-to-rim contact.
Guess what threw ME off was the 1) The quality of the impression, (but I have little experience looking at this type of thing), and 2) the quality of the coin...MS-66!
To me, that quality made an intentional "squeeze job" highly unlikely. (Why ruin a perfectly nice coin?) It also seemed to make a coin-to-coin "hit" unlikely.
But, I guess, one time random, "stroke of lightning" things can happen...
As I wrote, Tom and Fred's explanation has been the status-quo for at least fifty years. The only thing very unusual on this coin is the DEPTH of the letters. The "sharpness" is common when this characteristic is seen.
Therefore, I hope you guys can brainstorm more and come up with a possible way this effect can occur when the coin was struck.
Comments
Got it!!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
YOU STILL ARE NOT LINED UP!!
The letters on the top coin NEED TO BE REVERSED (as you
have done for us) and put on top of the letters ON THE RIM of the under coin. That drops the rim CLOSER to the positions I suggested. Right? Otherwise, I'm the crazy one. 
@Insider2
Are you reading my posts? Are you trying to understand them? The coin that received the rim impression is the coin to the lower left. Can you not see the reversed “STATES OF” overlying the rim inside the blue circle???????
Go get two Morgans, right now, and line it up. It doesn’t work any other way!
I am unaware of many things. One thing I am unaware of is what this coin represents. The second thing is how the "decision" we come up with here influences PCGS handling of this. There are three destinies of this coin. 2 are great, i.e. same holder or mint error. The possibility of my 250.00 investment being back in a genuine slab is not great, but I accept the risk vs. Benefit which is minimized by the guarantee. I also would not be shocked if I could sell this unique coin in a genuine slab on BST with relative ease.
[Ebay Store - Come Visit]
Roosevelt Registry
transactions with cucamongacoin, FHC, mtinis, bigjpst, Rob41281, toyz4geo, erwindoc, add your name here!!!
Well, if you ever feel the urge to sell, you might be best off here on the BST forum. The dang coin is FAMOUS here.
I’ll buy it!
You need an even more explosive force -- read up on detonography
Any idea regarding valuation should this > @tradedollarnut said:
Perhaps soon enough was a week ago.
Presumably mint luster in the depressions indicates incuse lettering.
From page one.
""Spoke to JA.... he said he first wanted me to contact him to confirm I was aware of the nature of the coin.
He said he believes this is not PMD, but is a mint error. He said too much pressure would be required to create the perfect lettering. He said that there was cartwheel luster throughout and the depressions had mint luster in them.
This coin is also free of bag Mark's and there are no bag marks in the area of discussion.""
It's ok. Just remember we will all agree if we take small steps... And if not, we can use really large font in all caps.
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match the OP's coin and the overlay should look like this:
EXCEPT
The entire overlaid coin will be shown so we can see where the rims would fall one the OP's coin. Thanks in advance for the visual aids you are doing!!!
PS We won't need the circles as the may cover something.
I’m eager to hear what the experts think once they have this in hand. Until then, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said here that will be useful, at least not on my part. Happy holidays everyone.
I'm asking you to image the OP's coin AND THEN PUT AN OVERLAY over his coin with the reverse letters of the overlay EXACTLY where they appear on the rim of the OP's coin.
I want the letters in your blue circle moved up to the right - over the other letters. You'll also need to rotate the overlay clockwise so the letters match Thanks in advance.
Thanks, but I'm not making a counterfeit die. I'm just providing a very low cost experiment.
LOL, I'm two days ahead of you. That's why I cannot figure out how this could happen pre-strike in the press or post-strike in the press.
BTW, I hope you
have time to make the overlay I requested.
As coins cannot talk, I don't beleive that any definitive conclusion will be reached, only a best educated guess.
The safe choice is a genuine holder and I hope that that does not happen as this coin is way too cool for such an unstellar fate.
The overlay BryceM made, now with two red circles and one blue circle, is exactly what you are asking for. The OP's coin regular and reversed and lined up letter to letter with the appropriate rotation to make it line up. You can see inside the blue circle that the reverse letters are lined up to the incuse rim letters. You cannot "see" the rim letters inside the blue circle because the image of the overlay is perfectly lined up over them. As BryceM stated, you can see where the rims line up in this overlayed image inside the two red circles he added. He put the circles there to point out what you are specifically asking for.
You are two days ahead of me. Check. Good to know. Oh good Lord. You still can’t see it can you..... The photo overlay you posted is just a snippet of the double overlay already presented here about a thousand times now. EVERYTHING IS POSITIONED EXACTLY THE SAME ONLY ONE OF THE TWO IMAGES IN THE OVERLAY IS PARTIALLY CROPPED.
Listen carefully. Ignore the rim letters your brain is seeing on the upper right rim of the upper right “donor” coin. I used the OPs coin FOR BOTH PHOTOS! I could have used any old Morgan reverse for the “donor” upper-right coin but getting it scaled and sized correctly would have taken more work, and a different VAM might not have lined up perfectly.
The “STATES OF” on the donor coin is lined up exactly where it appears on the rim of the receiving coin (lower left, normally oriented coin in the double overlay) PRECISELY AS YOU HAVE REQUESTED. Try to see it!
Bye.
Verdict is in: you are the crazy one.
Those coins are lined up. I think the image over image is confusing people. Maybe we need to color code the top and bottom image
What you are asking him to do is to take the exact image he has and rotate it 180 degrees. It's exactly the same orientation with the top moved to the bottom and the bottom moved to the top.
This is getting comical.
What I'm asking is to take tho OP's coin with its RIM COVERED BY HIS BLUE LINE and over lay another coin with the backwards letters exactly over the OP's coin rim covered by his blue line.
I'm sorry that I cannot make my request any clearer and cannot do it myself. I posted this image of what I want.
Now, will someone please add the rest of the DARK overlay (to make it a complete coin) so we can see where the rims cut each other.
Raised letters would make this even less likely to be an error.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
O.M.G.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I'm really glad you think authentication and an educational exchange of strongly held views is funny. Fortunately there is some very serious work going on in this discussion. I hope you'll continue to enjoy it.
I'll see you all tomorrow.
If you mentally rotate the image 180 degrees so the bottom coin is on top and the top coin is on the bottom, you will have EXACTLY THE IMAGE YOU WANT. That will NOT CHANGE THE RIM INTERSECTION POINTS AT ALL. The top coin is the lettered rim coin not the bottom coin.
@Justacommeman,
This is funny. Are they looking for the overlay too?
Good Night!
Maybe this will help....concentrate:
The two overlays shown ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ORIENTATION. Look below:
The only thing done in the "cut down" overlay was to remove the rest of the coin.
Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering.
You can tell by the way the shadows fall INTO the letters, rather than below or next to them, that the letters are incused. It is obvious to any coin Authenticator that another coin got pressed into this one after the two coins were struck. Anything else is wishful thinking.
No but I’ll tell you why In two days
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'm starting to believe...
Tilt the "Donor" coin just slightly, and there wouldn't necessarily be any rim-to-rim contact.
Guess what threw ME off was the 1) The quality of the impression, (but I have little experience looking at this type of thing), and 2) the quality of the coin...MS-66!
To me, that quality made an intentional "squeeze job" highly unlikely. (Why ruin a perfectly nice coin?) It also seemed to make a coin-to-coin "hit" unlikely.
But, I guess, one time random, "stroke of lightning" things can happen...
that is what insider wants, but I feel it is not pertinent if another coin is between the 2 at the bottom, as only the very top on the edge would connect with each other.
But I didn't create anything different than what was already here! I just put them side by side!
What Insider wanted has been here for...days?
Well, he's so many days ahead of us that he is actually two days behind.
Seems to me someone could just cut up a morgan and then squeeze that small piece into the coin being discussed to minimize any damage to the rims and etc.
What bugs me is the rim problem opposite of it? Why fake an error only to damage the rim on the opposite side? To add some type of confusing condition to the coin to help add to the appearance of an authentic error?
I also cannot believe 8 pages into this post people cannot interpret the overlay and discussing if the letters are raised or incuse
Color me crazy. Like @Insider2 I'm not seeing it (the overlay) correctly either.
@TommyType said "Both reverses in the overlay are the OP's coin. (Assume that was done to make sizing and camera angle identical). IGNORE the rim lettering at the top of the picture....pretend it isn't there. On the rim of the other coin, the lettering perfectly lays over the other coins rim....what was previously circled in BLUE. The registration is perfect, so you don't even see the rim lettering."
Edited to add: This is what I was missing. The OP's coin was used twice in the overlay. That's why the top coin had edge lettering also, but was in the opposite direction. Thanks @TommyType for clearing that up for me.
Donato
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The coin with the lower lying field was bent?
I would believe that brockard strikes, when known, in 1889 would have commonly just been recycled through the press.
The significance with this coin is that it was an "offstrike brockard" meaning the donor coin was off struck and the image on the OP coin was from an offset donor coin ( not a die). And when re-struct the detail on the perifery of the coin remained, as it was outside of the coin's denticles. The re-struct brocade coin was true to centers and the brockade issue on the rims remained.
A brockard strike would likely seize the press and require operator intervention. And the brockage "planchet" would have just been recycled through the press ( strike 2).
\
\The incused letters in the rim of the OP coin did not just happen with one strike of the press. It was due to re-introducing the offset brockade planchet again into the press. NOT PMD as the striking pressure to incuse the letters would be more significant than I can do with a 9 TR hydraulic press.
Clearly a two strike mint error.
OINK
We're conducting the experiments wrong. Instead of cull Morgans you must use two MS66 gem Morgans.
Still following this thread. Still noticing a stray Babel fish that doesn't translate well or swim well within this thread. Where 2 and 2 somehow add up to an imaginary number. Yeah, it's his world. We should feel so privileged to swim in his bubbles.
10-4,
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I don't want to spoon feed the answers. It is important to come to these conclusions yourself. Now THINK how the requested image was already provided. NOTICE how the the two images are the same except that the full coin is shown and the transparency increased.
We can use a simple question or two. Let's ask ourselves, what would the image I want look like
now how does the provided image differ 
Perhaps even think of this as a quiz. Let's break this into a small manageable pieces to figure out one a time.
I have another theory......perhaps it happened when they were making the working dies...……..
Leo
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How? The lettering is reversed, remember.
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Fortunately all of this has been settled before Christmas break.
That will give us time to return to the Omega Mystery.
Did everyone see the Zodiac Killer movie that was coming out this summer and that forced 4T to leave the FBI to do a promotional tour?
@jmlanzaf said: "If you mentally rotate the image 180 degrees so the bottom coin is on top and the top coin is on the bottom, you will have EXACTLY THE IMAGE YOU WANT. That will NOT CHANGE THE RIM INTERSECTION POINTS AT ALL. The top coin is the lettered rim coin not the bottom coin."
I'm severely challenged.
Folks say that I must be blind! 
Perhaps you or someone can prove your assertion with the overlay I've requested.
THANKS ALL for your patience. I was getting very frustrated at not being able to communicate.
Tommy, your explanation was perfectly clear. Now I see what Bryce was doing. The rims cross higher than I imagined.
As I wrote, Tom and Fred's explanation has been the status-quo for at least fifty years. The only thing very unusual on this coin is the DEPTH of the letters. The "sharpness" is common when this characteristic is seen.
Therefore, I hope you guys can brainstorm more and come up with a possible way this effect can occur when the coin was struck.