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Yorkshireman
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Were you there?
Please share your stories.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
2
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Managed to make it to the floor both Thursday and Friday, only major show I go to as a collector. Busy both days, on the part of both dealers and attendees. The Mint's Eagle release was certainly busy on Thursday, the line at the booth was several dozen people deep every time I swung around that way.
A lot of interesting material across the floor in upcoming auction or high-end dealer displays, like the recently graded full Pan-Pac set with original frame (seen in a previous thread), a comprehensive assembly of Lesher Dollars coming up for sale, and a fantastic collection of Indian Peace medals. The dealer's cases seemed more diverse as well, though there was still too much of a focus on Morgans for my liking (not that much can be done about that). For whatever reason, Bust halves and Seated Dollars seemed to be gaining more of a foothold, but there was less territorial and early gold apart from a handful of octagonal slugs.
World coins seemed particularly strong in medieval European material, though I was more interested in looking at Latin American offerings for chopmarks; there seemed to be a far greater number of cobs that I had seen in years past. I ended up walking away with an 1814-Mo Ferdinand VII 8 Reales with a soft strike, but nice original surfaces and a pair of nice chops.
Seemed to be a substantial number of publishing firms and coin clubs this time around, plus a pretty large interactive area for kids that was up and down in terms of use.
In terms of my own focus, there were a lot more chopmarked Trade Dollars spread around than I typically see; I ended up picking up a raw 1878-S and walking it over to PCGS, where it popped at 58, which I felt was conservative (still not bad, top pop is 62). In total, about half a dozen examples in slabs scattered around the floor, including a 76-CC in PCGS 61 and an NGC UNC Details (Cleaning) 75-S/CC.
Thanks for the report; nice looking chopped 8R!
Very busy show, which was expected being the last big one of the year.
Whitman are very good at producing shows.
The only negative was the Silver Eagle mayhem.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
@ChopmarkedTrades
Where is the sale of Lesher Dollars taking place?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Upcoming Kagin's auction. #1 Set All Time.
For the next show Dealer set up will now be Wednesday and the show will close Saturday....alias no more Sunday. Friday is usually my worst day and Saturday is usually my best day. This time Friday was my best day and Saturday was my worst day.
I couldn’t attend but got to view the StacksBowers auction in NYC last week. I ended up with one coin for my collection.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
As an individual collector, I attended on Saturday only and was disappointed. Half of the dealers who I wanted to see had already packed up and left. Many of those that did set up on Saturday began packing up around noon. The ANA, which I recently joined and planned to speak with about taking full advantage of my new membership, was already gone and only scraps of their literature remained at their table. Whitman didn't have the one coin folder I needed.
There is a lot of talk in the hobby about welcoming new collectors into the fold. It seems like some of the easy stuff is being missed. Younger collectors like myself often don't have the luxury of free weekdays. The ANA is fueled by members yet they skip the day when newer collectors are most likely to be in attendance. Dealers miss the opportunity to build relationships with someone like myself that still needs many coins for a type set.
I do understand that for dealers, much of the business happens during the weekdays with other dealers. I also understand that many have come from long distances and don't want to spend the entire weekend traveling. For what it's worth, the other half of dealers on my list that were there were all fantastic, helpful, willing to talk, etc. Those folks are more likely to get my business in the future, and maybe that's the best way for this all to shake out.
I'm curious what folks here think about this from both the dealer and individual collector perspectives.
I did pick up this lovely bust half, so despite some disappointment, the show was still a success.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Agreed on the early departures being a problem. Thursday and Friday had virtually every booth filled, but by the time I made it back Saturday afternoon the order to abandon ship had clearly been given, despite more general public making it through the door. More than half of the tables were packed up and gone.
My first show was a Saturday as well and had a similar experience and two of the dealers who were actually there and I bought from that day I actively keep tabs on and have bought from again. Actually my avatar is one of the coins I bought from one of the dealers a few months after the show.
Great bust half pickup love it
I was at the Friday show and appeared that most dealers were having good traffic. Even though not expecting the mint to sell the Silver Eagles on Friday, I became, in your words. caught up in the mayhem and was a successful participate. I am wondering since you think that this was a negative for the show, what effect it had on your business that you see it as a negative? I also observed several dealers participated in the mint's sale and it was hard to see that their mood was anything but upbeat.
Agreed, the mayhem part related to the fighting/arguing (even as I left on Friday, a dealer was screaming at a police officer, who had just started to scream back). Since it was such a small purchase price (compared to Kennedy Gold, as an example), I'm sure retail dealers benefited. I think back in 2014, some dealers mentioned that the $1100-$1200 was $1100-$1200 people didn't have to spend at the show with dealers.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Yes I agree. Saturday should be the biggest day, because that’s when kids don’t have to go to school and adults don’t have to work. Seems silly to me...
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
https://www.coinraritiesonline.com/index.php?page=road&id=388
CRO’s show report
Nice reports and coin all
I still find it too bad that dealers pack up and leave early, making Saturday at the show for many folks a barren experience. I don't know what to do about it, but like others have said, I will likely buy from other dealers that stick in the future when I see that. Part of the problem is that many of the early departing dealers are there mostly for the wholesale and not to John Q Public so they really don't care if they see my money or any other collector buisness.......
But ANA leaving early? Another reason why I did not renew my membership this year after 14 years of being a member. This organization continues to surprise me in negative ways (sorry but true).
Best, SH
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dealers that leave early on saturday dont care about doing business with collectors.end of story
Thanks for the report.... sad that dealers were leaving early on Saturday..that is what used to happen on Sunday...now that some shows have eliminated Sunday, they leave early on Saturday....Soon shows will be Friday only...and they will pack up by noon.....
Cheers, RickO
What was the commotion about with the screaming and police involvement? I must have missed it on Saturday.
My bit and pieces from Baltimore:
-I actually had a wonderful time chatting with 1 of the cast member who happens to be in the movie The Color of Money starring Paul Newman. (No, its not Paul or Tom Cruise, he's 1 of the pool player
)
-IMO Whitman did a wonderful job in organizing and controlling the crowd. They even passed out free limited pizza and snack to those waiting on Thursday.
-The only snafu was the US Mint having only 2 working registers.
I'm in the middle of the pack and didn't get my coin till 3-ish.
-Heard the the Mint has roughly 900 Of the Enhanced SE in hand Thursday. Approx. 250-300 leftover for Friday's distribution. All gone by 2:30pm with the last 1 supposedly to a gentleman by the name of "Bob".
-Seem liked 80% of the people in line on Thursday are from 2 casting agencies, either Central & Regent Royale (?). The person above was from Central & was paid $135 for the "work".
I was there until 5! LOL guess I'm not worth a look!
I also agree that dealers shouldn't leave so early. In our section it hurts us because there are are so may empty tables in front of us people don't come back to our area on Saturday. I wish Whitman would do like FUN and kick those early leavers to the back of the room!
My schedule allows me a bit of flexibility, so I was able to go Thursday afternoon and again over lunch on Friday. This is the busiest I've seen any Baltimore Show in the last 2-3 years or so. This year, I made a real effort to at least look at all the displays... it took over 2 hours and I was only looking for Liberty Seated Dollars and Classic Head Large Cents. The odd few tables of raw silver and gold at just over spot caught my eye as well. Another observation was the number of younger (late 20's early 30's?) collectors going table to table. This was definitely the case on Thursday. I'm not so sure about Friday... I wasn't there for more than 30-40 minutes, but it was still pretty busy. The US Mint offering seemed to have a lot of folks scrambling... perhaps that added to the atmosphere!
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Thanks for the additional reports on show activity reports....Cheers, RickO
@Walkerfan @spacehayduke @amwldcoin @ChopmarkedTrades @PocketChange Glad I'm not alone.
As I said in another thread, it's not about staying til the bitter end, or leaving a couple hours early. Dealers are leaving days in advance. There were empty tables--not no shows, but tables that were abandoned by dealers who left on Wednesday--of the ANA in Chicago. Ditto Friday for Long Beach in September.
(Until I manage to recover my account, this is @RockyMtnProspector)
I went both Friday and Saturday, selling an item or two and buying a couple new pieces to add to a few side projects. There was zero nice Charlotte material that I was looking for, so I went with plan "B" (ref below). As far as dealer attendance goes, Friday was a packed house with much dealer activity going on, however Saturday was in stark contrast. While the bourse floor had plenty of buyers, shoppers and activity, nearly half of the dealer tables were empty - @Whitman, you need to fix this.
'dude
@CharlotteDude that $10 is awesome!
I Agree!!
FYI many of us dealers had just completed wed-sat the previous week at the St Louis Coin X show so we have been on the road for a long stretch.
One suggestion is that they know which dealers leave early and which stay. If they would arrange it so the dealers who stay were banded together it would be a lot better for folks who wonder in. I’m not saying move small dealers to front and big dealers back but they could probably put more of the staying dealers towards the middle or central part of the room. Personally I usually stay til customers are not around which is 2-3pm. Kinda like when you pop corn in the microwave and the end there is on 1 or 2 Kernels popping now and then instead of lots of popping
I reached out to their membership team this morning and explained my disappointment. They got back to me quickly and said that my feedback was forwarded to both the "Executive Director and the President of the Board of Governors." They are also sending me a copy of a recent book at their expense, which was a nice gesture. I don't have any illusions that my feedback will bring about changes, but thought I should share since I specifically called them out in my last post.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Think getting rid of Sun is a good idea. Very few people come certainly not worth the cost to Whitman but I’m not liking a Wed setup. It was nice being able to arrive late Wed night or early Thur morning now I’ll be forced to lose yet another day on Wed to do set up. 3 day show would have been fine ... we will see how it plays out.
I used to have a big advantage. Before Whitman bought the show I used to help set up the show(got a free table!). When we were done we were able to set up Wednesday giving us a head start on everyone! It made a big difference. I'm 11 hours away so it is a plus for me. I always arrive a little after noon Wednesday...put my stuff in the security room...check in the hotel, then go back at 6 and move my stuff from the security room to my table. If they don't have a security room Sat. night I will be leaving Saturday morning...a security issue.
I spent most of my time in the ancient and foreign coin area since I am moving away from U.S. coins. I came in looking for coins representative of five emperors and came away with four of them, three of them “The 12 Emperors.” I did buy two of the Three Indian Cents I need to complete a Civil War era date set. Those will problem be the last major U.S. coin purchases for me.
I understand how you feel The dark side has become more fun for me.
I always marvel at the continuing debate about dealers leaving a show early. my natural response is to tell collectors that they should get to the show earlier and stop complaining, but I understand that isn't always possible. strangely, that is part of the reason why dealers don't stay to the very last minute of a show, it isn't always possible and it isn't always a wise use of their time.
when I worked in a shop and did regular shows my boss had a strategy --- get to the show as early as possible to be set-up, withstand the "early birds" and the initial flood of customers when the show opens, then wait till customers coming to our table slows to almost nothing. when that happens it makes no sense to stay so we'd pack up, get everything unloaded at the shop and a few things taken care of, then enjoy whatever time was left at our leisure.
dealers won't stay at a show when their experience tells them they won't make any money and their time is more important. buyers already understand that and need to find an approach that better suits themselves.
Some collectors think that they can get "bargains" at the end of a show. "You must be desperate to sell, right?"
Ah, no. There is always another show unless you are a dealer who is going out of business, and this is his last show. That is rare.
That's not say that some dealers have some stuff that they would like to dump and not take home. BUT look at it this way. If no one has bought something for show after show, chances are it's either overpriced or it's a dog.
Do you really want to buy that? Do you really think that it’s a bargain?
Coin dealing is a business and attending multiple day shows involves considerable daily expense. The large coin shows have been too long for decades ... this problem is nothing new. Way back in 1990 I set up at the Memphis Paper Money Show as a tabled dealer. 50% of my sales were during dealer set-up on Thursday evening. 40% of my sales were on opening day, Friday. 10% of my sales were on Saturday. On Sunday, when I was still set up, I sold nothing.
If you want to be happy attending major shows come early. It is just the way it is and probably always will be.
There is a reason why some show promoters let “the amateurs” set up for no charge on Sunday. That’s often about what it’s worth. It’s easier to justify driving in for a free table if you didn’t have to pay for meals and a hotel room the night before.
Dealers: it costs us money to stay.
Collectors: it costs us money to come early.
"It is just the way it is and probably always will be."
Well, that won't address why people stop coming. I always hear about dealer costs but not about how much collectors have to spend to get to the same shows driving, flying, hotels, etc., plus days off from work.
And again, not talking about staying until the last minute or even final hour or two. But in a three day show starting Thursday, I'm talking being gone by Friday noon. That's "leaving early."
I'm amazed at how dismissive some here are about this. Then folks like me stop attending these shows, and then some dealers here say, "but there's no foot traffic on a Saturday!"
After collectors are "taken" a few times in on-line auctions/buy-it-nows they will cherish the idea of actually attending a real coin show. Some will drop out but the true collectors will learn and stay.
The issue to me is not the knowledgeable collector who knows the show will be a ghost town on the weekend, but the newbie that sees a show advertised as being open, and goes on their leisure time only to be dissapointed. Thats what happened to me on my first ever coin show (I lived about an hour away from the Baltimore show), and naively showed up on Sunday, as I recall.
I've learned from past experience not to show up after 2pm on Sat.
So now I go to the early show AND another 1 early on Sat. with my kids.
That way the kids won't bother me when I'm in a business dealing mode.
Whenever I go to a show; I treat it as a vacation. I go during the week and spend a few days. Friday is always my favorite day to go. I don’t like going on the very first day. I know that dealers leave early, because of my experience. The problem is that some people don’t know that and they show up on Saturday and there’s no one there and they get disappointed and upset and then don’t go to any shows again. Herein lies the problem and it’s unfortunate.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/