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Coin Dealers as Evangelists
MrEureka
Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
To a large extent, at least as I understand it, the modern art market is driven by dealers and the biggest auction houses. Not that dealers are the end users, of course, but they promote certain artists and influence buyers. Then, there are the auction houses. If they don't give an artist an honored place in a top tier auction, the artist's work flounders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not really the point of this thread.
As for the coin market, it seems to me that dealers are a big influence in what's hot and what's not. And it definitely cuts both ways.
Agreed? Examples? What about you and your series?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Sure. CAC blessing can double the price.
Example is a common Saint in PCGS MS66+. Green sticker jumps it from the twos to the fours.
I find I am more influenced by what I see posted as show and tell on this forum and facebook / instagram. I started a type set of Spanish colonial 8R after following some of the amazing threads on this forum, for example. Plus Ultra!
That's a great example of a bad example. CAC doesn't promote any particular type of coin, except maybe behind the scenes. To the public, they only promote the concept that a nicer coin (for the grade) should bring a higher price.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
For a good example, consider what Rick Snow has done for Indian Cents.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If I am looking for a specific type of coin, I certainly seek out advice from experts...many of which are dealers. Cheers, RickO
And at the risk of sending this thread into too many directions at once, think about the Registry Sets. If there weren't dealers promoting the game, is there any chance that collectors would be paying the prices now being paid for so many condition rarities?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Good marketing always firm up the price and eventually becoming the chase for a few
I know for sure one of the routines of the PR dept. in top brand hotelier is to bring celebrities in for comp stay from time to time thus heighten the 'desirable' spot to see and be seen
If my reaction to a coin isn't immediate and the appeal isn't nearly basic, no amount of promotion will sell me.
I know that many things about coin collecting are learned behaviors (not truly instinctive), but some learned behaviors go back to an early time in life when you really can't remember when/how you learned them. The basic appeal of historic coinage is like that for me. If a coin doesn't snag me at some basic level, then a promoter can't sell it to me.
Good point, Andy. Value of often a matter of perception. People are generally social creatures, and often, the more something is promoted as desirable, the demand for the item, and hence the price, as the supply is limited to some degree, will increase.
In the late 1980s, Hanes Tulving and the like were promoting generic MS 65 Morgans as great investment coins. Demand increased. So did the prices. And you know what happened.
In 2003 and 2004, brightly colorfully toned Capped Bust Halves in MS 65 appeared out of nowhere onto the market. I don't know who was promoting them. Prices for MS 65 Capped Bust Halves nearly doubled in a year.
Registry sets are an example of this. The "finest known" of whatever is vigorously promoted, and there's always someone who bites. I remember someone paying something like $35K for the finest known FB Ms 66 1953 S Franklin half. Eighteen months later, another was made, and the guy wound up selling his coin for half of what he paid for it.
The above said, there's a difference between promoting specific coins for a quick buck, and promoting coins to increase the knowledge which is out there about a specific series, or date. Rick Snow is increasing the knowledge out there about Indian Head Cents (in drawing more attention to the series, this is also increasing demand for the coins, but I don't have an issue with this).
I think it is up each collector to decide which particular coins are rare and / or a good value. Ie., I decided to stop collecting Liberty Nickels in MS 66 when populations exploded, as I no longer thought they were a good value. I am not interested in a 1916 P Standing Liberty Quarter, as because I can buy one with the snap of a finger, I don't think it is a rare coin.
Now if I am looking five years for a particular coin and finally find one, then it's up to me to decide if the price is right.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It sounds like you're preaching to the choir.
The Coin Evangelist. I like it.
Aren’t they the one implied doing the running with well managed promotions. One enthusiast can spawn a dozen followers. A dealer can do hundreds
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I like "Coin Vault" on TV.
Is there a numismatic equivalent to the "eight New York critics"?
I think dealers are very important to creating interest in series they specialize in. This is almost always a good thing.
Most people like their coins more with stories attached, and dealers can do a lot of educating when it comes to the history and lore within a particular group of coins.
It's also why most dealers don't collect within their speciality. It would be frustrating to bring new collectors into a series only to see them grab the very coins the dealers were after!
I dont agree with Mr Eureka on this one. Dealers are the experts on what the definition of "nice" is - Their actions and education on this one have a lot of influence, across many/all series.
On another tangent - could a dealer evangelize World coins as an example of a road less traveled?
I think there is a difference between promotion and knowledge ( where a dealer publishes a book).
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I began collecting this series in earnest ( even to the extent of my first registry set) due to the Dunnigan and Parker book RESPLANDORES.
https://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/38216937_1000x1000.jpg
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Laura & JA are very similar
My Saint Set
While I have the greatest respect for Mr. Dunnigan, it was always "the word on the street" that it was the serious collector, Mr. Parker, who roped in the dealer, Mr. Dunnigan, to do that book. The Mexican coin collector community always felt that Mr. Dunnigan was rather indifferent towards the book.
Never underestimate the power of a Well-Managed Promotion(TM), whether art, coins, or tulips.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
People tend to be followers. I've longed believed a big personality on the bourse floor can influence public taste.
I wonder whom in the coin market could be compared to Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and Crefo Dollar?
I look at dealers who provide ready access to information via education, publication and collector interaction to democratize the information to the general population find that the series they support garner stronger interest levels.
Think Doug Winter for gold, Rick Snow for Indian Centers, Gerry Fortin for dime varieties, etc.
Latin American Collection
Tammy Faye Bakker would have blended in well on the brouse floor as a dealer
Speaking of Evangilists, there was a coin dealer a couple of decades ago in Baltimore who had a coin and jewelry shop. Anytime a new customer came into his shop he tried to get them to find Jesus and to join his church. He would insist that they take his religious brochures. The funny thing is when anyone came into his shop to sell him coins or jewelry he would always low ball them and try to buy them at a fraction of what they were worth. He later moved away. I sure don't miss him.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Reminds me of having received at least a couple of "Chick Tracts" (those supposedly religious cartoon booklets) in the package from buying coins on Ebay. As I recall, at least one of the senders had similar type business ethics as you described. Such as obvious overgrading etc, but I must have found something at a tolerable price.
There is a documentary I found fascinating about Chick Tracts called "God's Cartoonist: The Comic Crusade of Jack T. Chick". Seems they have become their own area of collecting. Think it was put together mostly by people who thoroughly disagreed with him, but defended his right to publish them. The tracts are banned in a some countries including Canada.
I recorded if from a PBS station some years ago. Not going to post any links about it even though I know political and religious discussions on the coin forum always result in calm, thoughtful and polite comments.
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On Ebay at least, I don't recall anyone evangelizing or adding anything to purchases aggressively pushing a particular collecting area. You can already tell what their area is if any. Mostly similar at shows with promoting usually being in a passive manner. Some ads; newsletters; emails; websites and articles can be more aggressive in pushing toward their favored area.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Not sure it's a good example, as this is a series with an already existing strong collector preference. In this instance, I'd guess that the combination of his die variety reference and sticker (as an opinion leader for the series) is the reason.
I understand your point and I think it helps somewhat but usually only or primarily at the margin. Dealers do or may promote top registry coins but I see that as primarily TPG driven, not dealer.
There are also series with very or relatively low collector preference despite being "popular" (measured by the collector base) where outside of specialization, nothing is going to make much of a difference as promoting it is predominantly artificial.