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How much damage is too much damage? When is it just melt?
dalladalla69
Posts: 61 ✭
I like chops as much as the next guy but this coin is just too much. And that makes me wonder how many of these details coins are just too damaged and just melt. The fact that key parts of the design are completely obscured makes me see no value beyond melt. Obviously others might not agree... When do you draw the line?
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It is strictly a personal choice. Personally, I consider chop marks to be nothing more than mutilations (and ones that would be very easy to fake as well) and would not buy a coin that had them. I know many will strongly disagree with me on this. It is probably a good thing the "disagree" button is now gone.
If it has one it's too much for me to.
Maybe that is why I only have one trade dollar in my type set.
Is this coin damaged?
I think it would be kinda cool to have an extreme example, especially if there is one rare mark on it.
My Saint Set
Me Likey very much!
The highest priced, seriously damaged coin I have seen in recent times was an Octagonal 1915-S Panama-Pacific $50 gold piece. It had been discovered behind the wall of a demolished building as the story goes. It was really beat-up but readily identifiable. It was in a PCGS “details” holder, and the asking price was $20,000. (I am sure that there have been very rare Sheldon variety large cents that have sold for more.)
The piece did not “fly off the shelf” at that price. A dealer had it on the show circuit for over a year before it finally disappeared.
As for this Trade Dollar, I don’t care for it. One can find Trade Dollars with chop marks that are more acceptable than this piece.
I’m no expert on this coin, but one might ask, is there enough left on this coin to certify that it’s genuine? That is always a concern these days, especially with Trade Dollars.
Yes, I too would question the authenticity.
bob
Although extremely disfigured the price is already more than 3 times melt with 8+ days to go. I agree that chopmarked Trade dollars are damaged, but they have a following and sometime command more money when chopped. This one should sell for no more than $100 IMO.
When I'm collecting chopmarked coins (whether by type or date, in the case of Trade Dollars), I heavily prefer gently circulated coins with a few chops to those that are completely covered like this coin. But to me, I don't consider the method of determining value in chopmarked coins to be the same way that I consider value in a conventional series. Conventional grading is all about preservation, how quickly an example got from the Mint to a cabinet and stayed there. A small amount of rub can be a six-figure difference in price. To me, that's boring. Chop marks essentially discount the consideration of coins as coins, and instead treat them as artifacts of trade that each tell a unique story.
The coin above is a US Mint product almost 150 years old that has elements demonstrating its extensive circulation abroad. To me, that absolutely adds a premium over melt, no matter how obliterated.
I kinda like that chopped eBay piece as shown by the OP, but my wallet has some rubber bands on it right now. Spent a lot recently.
Still, IMHO, it is not beyond the bounds of "too many chops".
The real question should be will CAC like it enough to give it a sticker?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Yes, but only because that countermark is fake if I'm seeing it correctly. It has the wrong number of dots (5-2-2).
http://chopmarks.com/res_fil/doc/coronas.shtm
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Well, it is a true auction (which in itself is a rarity on Ebay), so the buyer gets to decide for themself how much is too much. For me personally it is too much.
This coin is all about how many chops it has. So unless you are into chop marks, anything over 0 is too many. Otherwise, the more the merrier.
These sorts of trades are my least favorite. I prefer the chops, if at all possible, to be in the fields - and on lightly circulated coins.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I have a chop marked Trade dollar that I like (PCGS slabbed)... I think they are an interesting part of numismatic history. That one is so disfigured that I question the authenticity of the piece....Unlikely it is real....Cheers, RickO
When the intrinsic value exceeds the collectible value.
"Authenticity unverifiable"
Collector, occasional seller
For the sake of argument, would there be any prevailing opinion about saltwater damage to silver coins with shipwreck provenance? There's huge premiums for otherwise common material with wreck ties, but it is of course damage.
The Spanish 8 reales from the "El Cazador" wreck (most dated 1783 or shortly before) were all over the place in terms of condition. Most found new homes.
Beauty and desirability are all in the eyes of the beholder.
I think there is a difference between "mint damage" and "post mint damage". A counterstamp could be different than a chop, in my ever humble opinion. Any bozo could issue a chopmark. A counterstamp would have to be applied by a governmental entity or quasi-governmental entity.
Value: Face Value # numismatic Value # intrinsic Value
Example Au50 1964 Washington Quarter
Face = 25 cents
Numismatic Value = 0
Intrinsic Value (silver melt) : $2.75
When intrinsic value is driving the train, strong melt candidate.
A LOT of silver proofs were broken out of sets and sent to melt as silver went sky high.
Coin Dealer: Well, I have had this coin for sale for 3 years, asking $5. Price of silver has jumped, so it is worth $7.45 in melt. Well, off it goes.
If silver goes to $50 again, there will be the motherload of coins heading off to melt, along with silverware, rounds, etc.
Taken to the extreme, this could lead to upside values. For example, EVERYONE knows that a 1932-D quarter would not be melted, but who cares about a 1962-D quarter. The mint made 127,554,756 of them. A boat load of them were melted in 1979, and another boatload of them were melted in 2011. How many are left? How many circulated are left? Probably a bunch floating around in 90% bags. But have a sustained $50 plus silver again, everyone and their brother will be emptying bags, albums, dealer stock of low numismatic value. At $50, even PCGS MS65 basically are melt coins. So unless it is a PCGS MS66, it is melt time. Suddenly, 6 months later, someone finally figures out that there are basically no 1962-D quarters left below MS-66 except in some forgotten album, coin jar, etc. and based on SURVIVING population, it is scarcer than a 1932-D.
There are melt driven "rarity" or "semi-rarity" coins out there.