Remember when it was pure tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory to . . . ?

derryb

. . . accuse one or more banks of aggressively, compulsively and systematically manipulating the precious metals?

Merrill Lynch Caught Criminally Manipulating Precious Metals Market "Thousands Of Times" Over 6 Years

Bank of America is the parent company of Merrill Lynch

Relaxn

You think I could sue them for the 128,000 I lost trading metals during that time?

jmski52

Yes, you can sue them. Would you win the suit? Probably not, but if your trades can be tied directly to the case in which they have been forced to pay the fines, then maybe it's time to consult a lawyer.

MsMorrisine

CFTC Orders Merrill Lynch Commodities, Inc. to Pay Approximately $25 Million for Spoofing, Manipulation, and Attempted Manipulation in Precious Metals Futures

https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/7946-19

This case is brought in connection with the CFTC Division of Enforcement’s Spoofing Task Force, and the staff members responsible for this matter are Brandon Wozniak, Lara Turcik, Candice Aloisi, Lenel Hickson, Jr., and Manal M. Sultan.

ricko

Darn...now I have to make another tin foil hat... threw my original away when everyone said it was ridiculous Cheers, RickO

Namvet69

Hopefully it'll be a class action suit and any customer can hop onboard. Peace Roy

derryb

@ricko said:
Darn...now I have to make another tin foil hat... threw my original away when everyone said it was ridiculous Cheers, RickO

Just sold one to CoHo.

OPA

Only a $25 million fine for "thousands" of spoof trades?....Not much of a deterrent for the "other manipulators."

MsMorrisine

I wonder if I could bluff my way onto that spoofing task force...

Timbuk3

What else is new ?

ARCO

Interesting. They were buying future contracts then cancelling. Isn't this more of a pump and dump scheme than a gold supression scheme? Maybe they caused gold to be valued more than it really should be?

"In doing so, the traders intended to “spoof” or manipulate the market by creating the false impression of increased supply or demand and, in turn, to fraudulently induce other market participants to buy and to sell futures contracts at quantities, prices and times that they otherwise likely would not have done so"

Smudge

Conspiracy to sell more tin foil?

derryb

@ARCO said:
Interesting. They were buying future contracts then cancelling. Isn't this more of a pump and dump scheme than a gold supression scheme? Maybe they caused gold to be valued more than it really should be?

"In doing so, the traders intended to “spoof” or MANIPULATE the market by creating the false impression of increased supply or demand and, in turn, to fraudulently induce other market participants to buy and to sell futures contracts at quantities, prices and times that they otherwise likely would not have done so"

Manipulation is, well . . . manipulation.

But banker's don't do that! LOL.

ARCO

@derryb said:

@ARCO said:
Interesting. They were buying future contracts then cancelling. Isn't this more of a pump and dump scheme than a gold supression scheme? Maybe they caused gold to be valued more than it really should be?

"In doing so, the traders intended to “spoof” or MANIPULATE the market by creating the false impression of increased supply or demand and, in turn, to fraudulently induce other market participants to buy and to sell futures contracts at quantities, prices and times that they otherwise likely would not have done so"

Manipulation is, well . . . manipulation.

But banker's don't do that! LOL.

In the world we live in, all countries engage in some or many forms of institutional corruption. It is just baked into the cake so to speak. Knowing that, does a person fight it and believe that they can win it, or do they accept it and work in the only system that is available to them?

Accept that the metals markets are controlled. Accept that the high priests of money control your dollars. Accept that taxes and inflation will demand a chunk of it. Accepting that, what is available to you to thrive and prosper? It is not easy, but avenues exist.

1) Saving
2) living below your means
3) wise and prudent investing
4) improving yourself, your talents and skills, personal health and wellbeing.
5) saving
6) Buying a quality coin or two.

There you have it. The secret to success.

dpoole

I think that historically, people have always accepted a measure of corruption/manipulation by the more powerful, so long as there remained the capacity for substantial personal satisfaction among hoi polloi.

Societies break down when this capacity is substantially eroded.

We're seeing rumblings in our recent elections, but Arco (and most other folks in the US), plainly don't feel we're at that point. People appear to still be working "within the system."

ricko

People will work 'within the system' until the system is no longer workable....Then all hell will break loose and a new system will arise...usually favoring the winner of the revolution...Cheers, RickO

MsMorrisine

oh, I don't think a the new system that is required is going to be in place since everything is changed piecemeal.

CaptHenway

I hope the conspirators lost their collective tuccuses in the recent rise!

WCC

Not sure what the inference is in the OP.

When I have read claims with this theme elsewhere, it has frequently (if not usually) been implied that if prices were free to reach the "true" level, both silver and gold would be substantially higher, not just now but previously for years or even decades. Gold is down noticeably from the 2012 peak (about one-third) but still much higher now (versus the 200 year trend) relative to other commodities and probably most physical goods which people actually need to buy. To the extent this has been attempted to suppress prices longer term, it sure has been a miserable failure.

Silver is a puny pint sized market relative to those which actually matter financially. It is a far less important metal in the financial system versus gold; a non-factor. The only thing I see in this type of claim is the market irrelevance of it's advocates, not any success in substantially suppressing the price.

I'm not denying that price manipulation doesn't exist in many markets. It's blatant in currency and interest rates but ultimately, it fails because price controls don't work forever. The BOJ is (and has been) openly manipulating the Japanese stock market and I've read claims this exists by other central banks as well. Many seem to believe that there is a difference between developed world central banks and others. There is but it's not what most seem to believe. These institutions have a much higher level of public confidence but they lack the power to maintain the current asset, credit and debt mania indefinitely, despite that it has lasted a lot longer than I thought possible.

Gold is an important asset in the financial system but is historically overpriced. Silver has a limited if any role now and though far below its "historical" relative value versus gold, this is a poor benchmark given gold's recent relative overvaluation. I don't have hardly any data for comparison purposes, but if silver is relatively undervalued versus everything else, I'd like to see it.

Lastly, I don't currently own any of either but have in the past. I am looking to buy it during the next substantial decline which I think will coincide with the initial bursting of the current mania.

mapleman

@Relaxn said:
You think I could sue them for the 128,000 I lost trading metals during that time?

DEpends on your brokers affiliation.Self trading, SOL.
Welcome to the club. I dumped mine 5 years ago when I lost 20k on a "sure thing",