Options
Civil War Patriotic die muled with a Dog Tag
DCW
Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here is an extremely rare piece that was once owned by Q. David Bowers. It is the famous HOPE die from the Rhode Island series of Civil War patriotic tokens, often found paired with pictorial scenes of birds, dogs, hunting and such.
This one uses the reverse die of a Civil War dog tag:
F-481/493e White Metal Hope/War of 1861, PCGS AU58
The War of 1861 identification disc (dog tag) was engraved by Joseph Merriam. I have another that was issued to a soldier and bears his stamp on the hangar tab
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
18
Comments
Very cool piece.
Thank you for taking the time to share so many items. They are all well appreciated
Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Wow!
I remember my grandmother showing one of these that belonged to her father. I'm not sure what happened to it...
Yes, that Rhode Island "HOPE" reverse is extremely rare as a Civil War token.
Wow, very cool
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Great addition Dennis! This is a great piece as a stand-alone but even better as an addition to your Merriam collection! The wide variety of pieces you have is really impressive.
The 1844 Rhode Island Fuld-481 shield die is very interesting. Is it known what the 1844 stands for or who engraved this?
@EagleEye has the following text on his website on the Rhode Island die which indicates speculation but no hard information.
Here's some info on William Miller and Millerism which predicted Christ would return between 1834 and 1844. But if this was the case, creating this die in 1864 or 1865, 20 years after Christ's return was predicted to, but didn't happen, would be interesting. It does seem Millerism would have been present in Rhode Island as it grew from William Miller's home in Northeastern New York state and became a national movement through a preacher in Boston.
That is an interesting piece... I still have my military dog tags... as I imagine most veterans do as well. Cheers, RickO
That's a beauty!
I have owned many of the Hope tokens. Bowers has a small book out on them. The dog tag piece is the key to linking them to the Civil War series.
Are they linked to the Civil War era in other ways? For example, do any of the other pieces have war themes on the other side or can the engraving be matched to the work of any other die sinkers of the time?
Alternately, could the dog tag piece have been a restrike given that the dog tag die was done by Merriam?
Associating the 1844 date to Millerism and the Civil War era seems interesting as it would have been 20 years after Millerism was disproven in the Great Disappointment. William Miller began lecturing in 1833, so it seems like the term "Hope" would have been appropriate from 1833 to 1844. Has the Hope die been mated with any dies discussing the return of Christ?
Here's one of the Merriam dog tags which sold on Heritage back in 2008. The hanger says "MERRIAM" on one side and BOSTON" on the other.
This was for Sergeant Cranman S. Williams from South Philadelphia. It's neat to think that Merriam was in Boston and his dog tags were being used by soldiers from Philadelphia.
Here's another Merriam dog tag from Lieutenant Daniel P. Hardy of New Brunswick, NJ.
Is there a registry of Merriam's dog tags? If not, it seems like it could be a fun cataloging project.
They are linked to the "Rhode Island Die sinker" he also made the famous Hunting dogs CWT as well as the "First in the Field" Burnside die. They are not a product of the 1844 era.
Weren't they individual ID tags purchased by soldiers, and not standard issue like WW-II "dog tags?"
Good to know. Interesting that we still don't know who the "Rhode Island Die sinker" is. Hopefully more material will be digitized and help with discovery of his or her identity.
Yes. There were no standard Civil War Dog tags, and that is why there are so many varieties of them. Private diesinkers like Merriam would strike them with a blank reverse or portions of the reverse blank to stamp the name and regiment of the soldier. Probably sold through the company sutler.
Here is another by Merriam...
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Nice. That looks like it's for Corporal John M. Ham of Company H. It's nice that he fought at Bull Run. North Beverly is a suburb of Boston. I wonder what the "V" stands for in "MASS. V".
I wonder if any of Merriam's dog tags ended up with Confederate soldiers? That would be neat.
Correct. "V" stands for Volunteers.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
That is very cool!
HAPPY COLLECTING
I still have my dog tags. I wear them when I travel.
Here's another Merriam dog tag for Enoch Wilkins that is currently offered on the bay by American Coin & Stamp Brokerage. There's some good history in the description. Enoch Wilkins passed away in 1891, 30 years after he enlisted in the Civil War.
As a FYI on the subjects addressed above, there are a couple of catalogs that may be of interest:
"Identification Discs Of Union Soldiers In The Civil War - A Complete Classification Guide And Illustrated History" by Larry Maier & Joseph Stahl, paperback, 212 pages, 2008. This work catalogs and illustrates the tags by type and sub-type, illustrates a number of named pieces with histories of their service (& some photos of the individual soldiers), a section on authentication and a survey of known discs (known to the authors) listed by style, state, unit, company & rank but without the name of the soldier. It has a good bit of historical notes and context with supporting citations but it is written from the viewpoint of a Civil War memorabilia collector rather than from a numismatic perspective so the connection to die sinkers and related material is thin. It is not "complete" as advertised but is the best thing out there for a decent overview.
""Dog Tags - A History Of The American Military Identification Tag, 1861 - 2002" by Paul Braddock, paperback, 170 pages, 2003. This work spends only about 10 pages on Civil War tags but gives a long and detailed history of the evolution of the identification discs or "dog tags" both private and government issued up to the present (government issued tags started with WWI). Almost every government type is imaged along with many of the private Spanish-American and other private issues. It is a concise work but yet a comprehensive guide to the U.S. issued tags with a fairly adequate overview of the 1861 - 1913 private issue period.
It should also be noted for those not familiar with Civil War tags that there are a fair number of unengraved remainder tags available that turn up on eBay and elsewhere fairly often, mostly of three to five different types. Unfortunately some of these have been engraved (less often stamped) with real soldier names and then artificially aged so even researching the soldier's military record may not help in determining authenticity. The McClellan small bust, the War Of 1861,62 (Eagle), the War Of 1861,62,63 (Eagle) and the Elder George Washington I.D. tokens (which were struck much later) are the types where remainders are occasionally available.
Very nice, I like it !!!
Yes. If you didn't have any identification on you, and many didn't, they would end up as "unknown". There were many, many "unknown".
Thanks for the information!
Dying as an "unknown" seems to be a Civil War soldier's worst fear. Numerous times in my readings about the Civil War it is mentioned that the night before a battle soldiers would write their name & unit on slips of paper and pin them to the arms, legs and chest of their uniform. Once they had seen battle they knew how unforgiving field artillery could be and prepared for the worst.
As mentioned, all the Civil War tags were private with most either purchased and given/sent by the family or purchased from the unit sutler who had the blanks and a set of individual letter punches (thus the frequent & frustrating spelling errors in names, etc.) The other type of tag much less frequently seen were coins planed off on one side by the soldier and then engraved with name, unit, corps -- you have to be very careful in purchasing tags of this type as they are much easier to make than finding period letter punch sets. I would venture that most of the real Confederate tags known are on coins as well as even more of the Confederate fakes.
@tokenpro How can the counterfeits be identified? Can you link to or post some?
Most of the bad Confederate tags are on bad "coins" -- half dollar & silver dollar fakes that are undersized (28.4 to 29.7mm for halves -- should be 30.6mm; 36 to 37.6mm for dollars -- should be 38.1) and underweight. They are also usually out of round and use the same eight to ten names & units over and over again. Some have been around since the 1990's, possibly earlier. Here is one borrowed image for Robert F. Bunting, C.S.A., 5th Texas Cavalry that is typical of the bad tags:
The most difficult pieces are the few hand engraved pieces on real period coins similar to love or award engraved pieces -- provenance (that word is everywhere), unit histories, engraving styles, experienced guesswork & often a whole lot of faith are needed to nail this type of piece to the "real" wall.
Peter Bertram has a pretty complete list of the reported fakes on fake coins as noted above in his great work Confederate Numismatica - Part 1 available through him.
Here is a private piece for a Union soldier that I am convinced is authentic (although about as crude as any I've seen). The obverse has been engraved (actually scratched in) L. HARPER, AKRON O., FT. CORCORAN VA // CO. F, 164 OVI on a higher grade 1861S Seated half dollar. Lecky R. Harper entered the war at age 21 as a 100 day substitute for another man with tragic consequences. Here is his obituary:
"Co. F, 164th Ohio Infantry, and Co. D, 80th Ohio Infantry, Civil War.
His parents removed to Kansas. Leckey is buried with his grandmother.
........................
Died, in this city, March 12th. of consumption, LECKEY R. HARPER, aged 22 years and 10 months.
The deceased was a young man of rare endowments, having during his brief residence among us, very greatly endeared himself to all whom he had become acquainted with, and his early death is a severe blow upon his parents, sisters and other relatives and friends. In 1864, although then almost a stranger among us, young Harper volunteered as a substitute for J. Park Alexander, in Co. A, Ohio National Guard for one hundred days' service, under the call of Gov. Brough, and as will be seen, by the resolutions of the Company, published elsewhere, he nobly performed his duties as a soldier.. His funeral on Thursday, notwithstanding the inclemency of the weather was a attended, at the residence of his father on Medina st. by a large concourse of sympathizing friends, his remains, enfolded by the Stars and Stripes, being escorted to the cemetery by his fellow soldiers in full uniform."
Interesting thread. Is it fair to say seated/bust coins which are of higher grade like that 1861-S half are more likely to be authentic engraved period pieces then lower grade cull coins which are engraved.
Here is another engraved Federal Coin that still has me working, maybe a fresh set of eyes will help (I've seen several other similar personal pieces on both large & small cents):
N Y / J.B. / Co. B, 133 Rgt. / 3 B / 3D I9D(?) / Vol
To me this translates as (soldier) J.B., 133 Regiment New York Volunteers, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Division (?) -- I see the last letters as 19D or possibly /9D. The Maltese Cross outline is the 5th Corps insignia. So far I can't find anything indicating that the 133rd NY Reg. was ever in the 5th Corps but CW regiments got shuffled around often so the search continues.
The funny part of this acquisition was that I let a local dealer (a friend) go on for 20 minutes getting worked up trying to convince me that this was an actual Civil War era personal pocket piece before I pointed out the obvious - he still gets irritated when I remind him of this piece.
Has anybody ever seen one of the Thomas L. Elder WW1 George Washington I.D. tags engraved or punched with anything? I have not.
TD
If you mean the mule Thomas Lindsay Elder, aka “Elder the roaring lion”, struck from the Lovett and Hanson dies, the following thread indicates they are fantasy mules of Civil War token dies. If they were fantasies sold or given to collectors, then it would make sense they weren't personalized for wartime use.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/924679/help-with-a-george-washington-security-medal
That's not quite what that thread or TDL's Elder catalog say -- Hanson was a Chicago die sinker who worked in the late 19th and early 20th Century (not during the Civil War). He made the reverse die for this I.D. medal as well as several other World War I related dies on order from Elder for use on Elder's medals. Even though Elder used a re-purposed Lovett die for the obverse, Elder's I.D. tokens are not fantasies in any way, mean or form and are not Civil War related (even though Curto mistakenly listed them as such) - TDL directly points that out in the catalog. Elder had serious views on World War I and issued a number of pieces reflecting those views with the I.D. piece as a related go along.
I mentioned to CaptHenway in a pm that I had seen one Elder I.D. medal with engraved Civil War info at a gun show a number of years ago but the dealer did not want to discuss it at all after quoting a fantasy price. It was bad in every respect.
While the book appears to have more information than the thread and some interpretation of the thread may be useful, the thread does include the following excerpts:
Is there any information that definitively says these were issued for WWI or other soldiers? I have an Adam Pietz "Good Luck and Victory" So-Called Dollar medal which was mentioned in two 1917 issues of The Numismatist with information from Pietz that these were to be given to WWI soldiers. Are these Elder restrikes documented in The Numismatist or other publication, or are they only known by association with other pieces?
This is an interesting tidbit. Seems like at last the piece with the Civil War info could be seen as a fantasy or fake Civil War dog tag. Finding one with WWI or other contemporary information would be very interesting. It would be great if one was discovered.
I never received the PM. Please repeat.
I was just looking over Hope tokens again and had overlooked this one before. Great looking token!
That one doesn't have a TrueView but a MS64 does. Neither the MS65 nor the MS64 have a provenance listed.
I still have my original dog tags....wow...amazing how they have made it through all my moves to different countries and states ....I have seen some examples of the CW tags at shows I attended in the PNW when I lived there... I find them interesting, but did not purchase any. Cheers, RickO
Got mine too ricko; notch and all. The 'old days'.
A soldier's dog tags are the most personal thing he'll ever own. They're with him every moment of his service, through the frightening uncertainty of battle to the good times of garrison.
I've got mine in a box with my father's and grandfather's.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Two weeks ago, my 89 year old father passed along his dog tag and those of my great uncle who served in both WW1 and WW2. I promised to take good care of them.
Here's a new one I ran across to compare with one I posted above.
1861 Civil War Dog Tag - Kate Johnston - Baker-122T - PCGS XF40
This is nice because it has 1961 counterstamped on it, and an over. struck regiment number.
1861 Civil War Dog Tag - Enoch Wilkins 87th Reg Williamsburgh NY - Baker-122T - PCGS VF Details
@Zoins was asking about Confederate dog tags on 'Merriam' blanks:
www.brunkauctions.com
Cool thread!
Very unusual to see Southern Civil War dog tags, especially from a Northern die sinker like Merriam. It appears contemporary from the photos, minus the chain of course.
Thanks for posting this to the old thread!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
When it comes to the U.S. Civil War and the related exonumia one guiding principle is to listen to Phaedrus: "Things are not always as they seem; the first appearance deceives many".
One common misconception is that states were either Union or Confederate with only the border states being a mix of both camps. In fact there were enclaves of Union supporters in most Confederate states and to a lesser extent areas of Confederate sympathizers in Union states. Often the sentiment was great enough that military regiments were raised to fight for the favored side. Tennessee was especially split for a Confederate state as Eastern Tennessee had large pockets of pro-Union populations. "Although Tennessee was officially a Confederate state in the conflict, the state would furnish the most units of soldiers for the Union Army than any other state within the Confederacy, totaling approximately 31,092 white troops and 20,133 black troops." (Wikipedia). At least 45 regiments of Union infantry, cavalry, artillery and colored troops were raised in Tennessee.
The 8th Tennessee Volunteer Cavalry (V.C.) was a Union regiment formed in 1863 that served through the end of the war. They fought mainly in West Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley. A search of the National Park Service list of soldier's details turns up hundreds and hundreds of Whitlocks that fought for both sides but a detailed search turns up one candidate from either side that fits the identification disc shown above:
Whitlock, Michael H.
• Side: Union
• Location: Tennessee
• Battle Unit: 8th Regiment, Tennessee Cavalry
• Function: Cavalry
• Alternate Name: Michael H./Whitlch
Whitlock's full Civil War service records would have to be accessed to confirm that he enlisted out of Greene County to nail down the i.d. (a genealogy search would accomplish the same) which would confirm that this is a Union identification disc properly done on a Merriam planchet. Union - Tennessee i.d. discs are known but are extremely scarce; a Confederate i.d. it is not.
Thanks @tokenpro. Your explanation makes a lot of sense
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."