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Real or Fake? 1914-D Lincoln Cent

BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.

Comments

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm, looks good to me. Slight doubling in the mint mark.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019 3:58PM

    Looks genuine to me, matter of fact it looks to be double struck in collar. Very cool!!!

    Edited to add that after reading FW's comments I went back to the pics and took a closer and slower look from my laptop at the marks that he was referring to and am suspicious that this could be a counterfeit struck on a genuine cent. I gotta quit looking at things like this on my phone.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,937 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who ever owns it should get the green stuff off

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Enlarge the photo - I see casting marks
    on the lower left shoulder area.

    (and I also see what looks like a D/S in the
    collar, with a slight rotation, but it doesn't
    look like a normal D/S in the collar to me)

    Although the coin looks "OK" in the photo,
    please enlarge it, and look closely at all of
    the raised marks and lines.

    I don't deal in 14-D cents any more, but
    I don't recall seeing that effect on them.
    ....l could be wrong.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the images, it looks legit. However, as @PTVETTER points out, those green spots (obv and rev) give me pause for concern.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am the farthest from an expert, but 2 things:

    1) The "scrape" mark where a "normal" mint mark would be is disconcerting. Is there a know die that had the D so far down?

    2) Does the obverse and reverse match a know die pair?

    For the $$ involved, I would pay expert (s) certification.

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am in the fake camp on this one, but am no expert. I don't like the raised die lines on the bust and behind, the folded metal at the rims, the "in collar one-sided double strike" or the mushy detail on what looks to be an unc coin. However, there are some points in the coin's favor as well and its worth having it graded. Pretty cool coin if genuine!

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:

    For the $$ involved, I would pay expert (s) certification.

    I agree! This and the 09-S VDB are among some of the most counterfeited coins out there. Authentication is very desirable.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If fake, it's a nice touch having the green stuff on there.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019 2:36PM

    Edited to add- ChrisH beat me to it!!!

    Gotta go with my inner voice on this one and say not genuine, for 2 reasons:

    1. The shape of the D looks off to me.
    2. The Lincoln bust looks like a later one from the 40's or 50's. I would expect a LOT more detail in a 1914. The lines on the shoulder could be the result of trying to obscure the VDB that would be on a later bust.
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks all. PCGS called it counterfeit. Now I see why. I didn't see the tooling before.

    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The first thing that an authenticator would probably notice (besides a sharp, shiny edge - I'll bet) is the shape of the "D" mintmark. The wavy area above the motto indicates C/F also. The tool marks on the bust indicate one of the older c/f's. Did anyone notice it is double struck?

    If this were put in an album of high grade Lincoln's it would pass as genuine to many.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "D" is all wrong. Wrong shape and in the wrong place.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fake. Lincoln’s hair is poorly defined for this early Lincoln issue

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't put any of my money into it. I'm not convinced it is authentic.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hope tuition was at the Community College level and not Harvard. ;)

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent pictures by the way

    Collector, occasional seller

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thats why I bought mine already in a holder and never cracked it! I'd rather pay the price of admission than the cost of tuition!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice counterfeit, thanks for sharing! :)

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BustHalfBrian said:
    Thanks all. PCGS called it counterfeit. Now I see why. I didn't see the tooling before.

    woops didn't see this before I answered. I hope you were able to return it.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's an awesome looking counterfeit though.... what is the consensus? False dies over genuine cent?

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Counterfeit.
    The D is wrong and the style of the bust and portrait are off.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 7:18AM

    Here's my real one WITH A BEAN!!!! :D:D


  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Late to the game... but was convinced it was counterfeit.... several points already mentioned...Cheers, RickO

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To expand on my "Fake coin" judgement, I read an on-line article on Chinese fakes. This piece looked a lot like a 1958-P cent the Chinese have made.

    Can you believe it? A coin with almost no numismatic value is a target of their counterfeiting activities.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MonsterCoinzMonsterCoinz Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks fake as a spray tan to me. The hair looks completely wrong.

    www.MonsterCoinz.com | My Toned Showcase

    Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
  • batumibatumi Posts: 816 ✭✭✭✭

    Late to the game, but I saw no one mentioned the '1' in '1914' being too tall. Plus the scrapes or tooling others have posted, I haven't seen on Lincolns of any date. Also, my initial opinion was that the coin just didn't look 'right'.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,183 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great thread! I noticed the raised lines right away.. Alarm bells immediately.

    My YouTube Channel

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hope all the students were paying attention! This game is looking for someone who drank the koolaid. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldenEgg said:
    That's an awesome looking counterfeit though.... what is the consensus? False dies over genuine cent?

    Hmmmm.... interesting question. I'm just on my phone, my laptop is in for repairs, but there exists imaging software to superimpose the cent in the OP and those from Coinfacts... That said, I was able to go back and enlarge the image enough to see a bunch of hairlines all over the field. They just seemed to blend in with the toning

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a die struck counterfeit probably on an unstruck cent planchet which are fairly easy to find..

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A friend of mine over on CT ask me to post these images.


    Larry

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was going to say the mintmark looks odd to me but I can’t see you guys are on top of it. Good call with the tooling 👌🏻

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 2:24PM

    I think it’s real, but what do I know
    It may have been played with but real?
    I hope it gets graded and we find out for real!
    Dumb me I didn’t read all the post before PCGS called it C/F
    My bad!!!!!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ldhair said:
    A friend of mine over on CT ask me to post these images.

    it looks like the same obverse die - extra line below the 9 of the year and doubled profile

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Altered and die struck. It's easy to comment after reading everyone's good posts. I'll add the following:

    The inside of the"D" should have an angled look to it on the right. Sure does look like the "V.D.B." was tooled off, and yes, Lincoln looks less detailed then a coin from 1914.

    Out of the 7 dies that Denver used to produce this coin, one, maybe 2 show real detail on Lincoln. 14-D was not struck well as a rule.

    I took a cursory look at this coin and initially thought it was genuine, then I read the comments and saw the alterations.

    It is a good fake.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's another fake I found in an estate I bought 10 years ago. An obvious "added MM".

    I haven't tried acetone to dissolve any glue used. I wonder if I could pry it off with a plastic putty knife.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @batumi said:
    Late to the game, but I saw no one mentioned the '1' in '1914' being too tall. Plus the scrapes or tooling others have posted, I haven't seen on Lincolns of any date. Also, my initial opinion was that the coin just didn't look 'right'.

    The 1's being too tall is exactly what made me lean towards not authentic. The rough area in the shoulder made me think possibly a newer coin that had the VDB removed was used as a planchet to press over. The visible doubling or ghosting also made me think a genuine coin was pressed over top of.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019 4:51PM

    Image of this one and the other forum example's reverses:

    Kind of like "where's Waldo", but easier...

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sure missed it. Did not notice the tooling....in hand would sure be better to see. Send to me please, just PM for my address.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is why I never bought one in the pre-slabbing days. In the legitimate 14 D, note that the D is almost right under the 9, and tilts ever so slightly to the left. It also doesn't have the tails that you see on the dark fake coin.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like these kind of threads. A real learning opportunity for a lot of folks. Lets you sharpen your skills along with others.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The tooling on the shoulder and lack of beard details indicate a non-US-Mint origin.

    Moonlight Mint
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkeigwin said:
    Here's another fake I found in an estate I bought 10 years ago. An obvious "added MM".

    I haven't tried acetone to dissolve any glue used. I wonder if I could pry it off with a plastic putty knife.
    Lance.

    I wouldn't automatically condemn that one. Very late die states can sometimes look like that.

    Moonlight Mint
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @lkeigwin said:
    Here's another fake I found in an estate I bought 10 years ago. An obvious "added MM".

    I haven't tried acetone to dissolve any glue used. I wonder if I could pry it off with a plastic putty knife.
    Lance.

    I wouldn't automatically condemn that one. Very late die states can sometimes look like that.

    First $100 gets it!
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • Lulo90Lulo90 Posts: 16 ✭

    that coin even has the hole in his head. Nice touch.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Found an example from a past NGC article on counterfeit '14-D's and it appears to have a couple of matching marks. A friend in another forum did an overlay of the date/mm area of the subject coin of this post and this example:

  • giorgio11giorgio11 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The inside of the mintmark should be triangular on genuine pieces, in addition to the many other warning signs.

    Kind regards,

    George

    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.

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