Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

Is anyone using or planning to use PWCC's Vault option?

PWCC has been pretty ahead of the curve when it comes to building their brand in the trading card marketplace. They offer a lot of benefits for people consigning with them. I just created a Vault account with them. Now I am not sure if I will actually send any of my cards in for the service, but I am wondering if anyone on here has done so or is planning on doing so. I probably have a handful of cards that I am thinking about sending in. What are your experiences or thoughts on the Vault, pros or cons?

Steve
«13

Comments

  • balco758balco758 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can anyone share the issue w the Vault? What happened?

  • brendanb438brendanb438 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭

    Just Google PWCC and forums and you will stumble across some of whats going on. I also value my posting privileges so I have nothing us to add.

  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2019 4:48PM

    @1970s said:
    I enjoy my collectibles way too much for anyone else to hold onto them. Collecting is a fun thing for me. I enjoy escaping back into my childhood every once in a while in my private room. It's locked by the way, and only I have the key.

    Yes, this Vault concept seems to be more in tune for investors vs. collectors. It seems like PWCC is making a play to broker sales through the vault instead of being tied to eBay. I would not label myself an investor by any means but I am interested in the concept of the Vault and where it is headed. I am curious if they will get the cards they need to create their own marketplace free from eBay. It seems like their Vault could be a super high end COMC.

    Steve
  • AFLfanAFLfan Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for keeping things civil. It is appreciated.

    Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
  • graygatorgraygator Posts: 447 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with LOTSOS that PSA ought to make a statement on the issue. I’m not holding my breath. In the meantime, is the standard one of civility, or are there substantive restrictions on what we can discuss on this board?

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't let my cards within 1,000 miles of that vault.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    At the current clip, I wouldn't want to curtail any conversation. Looking at the Vault fees, I would hope they could cut, or cut back, on the fees a bit. With a cut down, we can mow through the language and pare it down to the basics.

    If I were looking to prune my collection, I may send some items to the vault to shave off some liability. The shear magnitude of the Vault concept may shorten the amount of collectible insurance I need to carry.

    Frankly, I have been looking to whittle down my collection for some time. Good luck to all!

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • eagles33eagles33 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭

    Oh boy. I never used pwcc but just sent them a 1956 Topps set I bought locally. I never sold high dollar raw cards before or complete sets on eBay so figured it was worth having a reputable seller sell them. I don’t know what the issue is but now I’m nervous

    Scans of most of my Misc rookies can be found <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.collectors.com/m...y&keyword1=Non%20major">here
  • prgsdwprgsdw Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭

    I have no interest in their vault service.

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Steve, if I didn’t know what a straight shooter you are, I would swear you were trolling. Going to be harder than it used to be to find people eagerly sending their cash and high end cards to PWCC now and in the near future.

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox

  • Desert_Ice_SportsDesert_Ice_Sports Posts: 285 ✭✭✭

    My 2-cents...

    It's my understanding that this is a problem that's been going on for some time, but has become a very big deal recently... Who (or what) is eventually going to take the fall for this is very much up in the air at this point, and I'm not informed enough to point fingers at anyone.

    However, this is the type of thing that could bring the entire hobby to its knees... Scandals like these sour collectors on continuing to buy cards, but most collectors will eventually return due to their love of cards and the hobby itself... What's really scary is what effect it could have on investors... I have virtually no experience with PWCC, but one thing I know they've done in the past few years is greatly expand the hobby's customer base by marketing sports cards as an investment... This has brought a ton of new buyers into the hobby and, through the simple concept of supply and demand, has directly contributed to the dramatic rise in values for investment-grade cards... But investors, by definition, have no emotional attachment to their investments, so the minute they see a scandal that may affect the value of their portfolio, they'll dump it and move on to something else.

    For all parties involved, there's a right way to handle this and a wrong way... The wrong way is to deny that you or your organization has done anything wrong and insist that everyone else is to blame... Unfortunately, that seems to be how we Americans generally operate... If that happens, EVERYONE is going to end up losing in the end, including thousands of us who have no connection whatsoever to any of this.

    The right way would be for all parties involved to get together, admit their part in it, and hash this out BEFORE it gets any bigger... Because I'm a realist, I doubt this will happen, but I sure hope it does because I loved this hobby long before I decided to make a living at it, and thousands more like me deserve better than to have it ruined by a few greedy people.

    DesertIceSports.Com

  • RookieHOFersRookieHOFers Posts: 733 ✭✭✭

    I will not be using the vault service Steve or doing any business with PWCC.

    Matt
    I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭

    I stopped using PWCC for many of the reasons others have stated here and the other forum.

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    Can someone PM me with links to the other threads describing this please? I am not caught up and do not know where to start.

  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Todd - thank you for addressing the question others have posed about the 800 lb gorilla, and that is great info and follow up. I know there are a lot of us on this board and forum that enjoy cards and having them graded by PSA. I also know in speaking to several collectors that this is a serious issue, and many are not going to spend money on cards going forward due to the lack of confidence surrounding what has been brought to light with the recent events with the 52 Mantle from PWCC and others. Helping to clear this up would go a long way towards restoring confidence in collectors. Thank you again.

    KC

  • LOTSOSLOTSOS Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:

    @LOTSOS said:

    @AFLfan said:
    Thank you for keeping things civil. It is appreciated.

    Todd,

    Any chance we will hear from PSA on the 800lb gorilla in the room? Not looking for a discussion thread but perhaps a pinned and locked thread like the one regarding turnaround times by @mrstevesloan? Not to comment on other parties involved such as PWCC but on how PSA is planning to address the concerns we, their customers and most ardent supporters, have regarding the findings on other forums that there are altered cards currently in PSA holders?

    Sincerely,
    Kevin

    Yes, I am sure that you will. I don't know all of the details, but Steve Sloan is a thorough guy. He is currently learning all that he can before making a statement. Whenever a decision or statement is made, he wants to be sure he is doing so with as much knowledge and understanding of the situation as possible. That likely doesn't sound helpful in the immediate, but rest assured that the situation is not being ignored.

    Todd,

    Thank you very much for running it up the flag pole, simply knowing that they are aware is a great start. I'm however hoping that we do hear a "decision or statement"r sooner rather than later.

    Sincerely,
    Kevin

    Kevin

  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019 6:15AM

    Thank you very much...but I like being able to physically handle my own cards.

    mint_only_pls
  • balco758balco758 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to all for the updates. I was unaware of any issues. And unfortunately, a bit naive.

    Personally, I am 95% a collector so the Vault concept didn’t have any appeal for me.

    DBesse27, no troll here. Not my style.

    Steve

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @balco758 said:
    Thanks to all for the updates. I was unaware of any issues. And unfortunately, a bit naive.

    Personally, I am 95% a collector so the Vault concept didn’t have any appeal for me.

    DBesse27, no troll here. Not my style.

    Steve

    I think he meant the other Steve in the thread, the OP.

    After reading the releases about the PWCC, to me, the Vault is primarily a tax shelter and a way to keep cards ‘known’. With some cards, it’s not always even about having the money but the finding of a copy for sale. So I imagine for those not looking for security or tax savings, the appeal for sellers will be that your card is there and high bids/offers can be reflected to you by PWCC. As a buyer, I imagine the Vault will be an opportunity to make offers on the rare and valuable with many ‘new highs’ established as a result of these private sales.

    For those inquiring about the scandals, I think it revolves around a handful of graded cards that have been called into question by internet sleuths who believe these cards have been altered. It runs the gamut from modern to vintage.

    While people have lobbed accusations everywhere, it seems to me that the fault lies primarily with the people altering the cards. As technology improves and alteration methods become less perceptible, alterations are becoming harder and harder to detect.

    Similar to the MLB steroid scandal, people seem to be disproportionately mad at PSA and PWCC for the moral and ethical failings of others.

    This is just my opinion/recounting of it all. To date, I have seen no actual evidence that anyone at PSA OR PWCC has been actively involved in card alteration or collusion with the owners of said items.

    I’m not following it as closely as others so I expect to be corrected on some elements of this information.

    What’s clear to me is some seemingly bad items have ended up in slabs, much to the chagrin of the marketplace.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭✭

    Some day, folks here will realize that the majority of the high grade vintage cards have been altered/conserved. PSA has never been able to reliably detect this sort of alternation/conservation.

    As for the vault, I plan to send some of my higher dollar cards to them. It is unclear to me why anyone would connect the current PWCC scandal to the vault service. They really have nothing in common and will have no impact on the vault service being offered. For me, it is simply a realization that the value of some of my cards ($60k-$25k) makes me uncomfortable storing them in my home. If I end up feeling a need to have a physical copy of the card in my collection, I can always buy a lesser grade version.

    Robb

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019 4:52AM

    @fergie23 said:
    Some day, folks here will realize that the majority of the high grade vintage cards have been altered/conserved. PSA has never been able to reliably detect this sort of alternation/conservation.

    As for the vault, I plan to send some of my higher dollar cards to them. It is unclear to me why anyone would connect the current PWCC scandal to the vault service. They really have nothing in common and will have no impact on the vault service being offered. For me, it is simply a realization that the value of some of my cards ($60k-$25k) makes me uncomfortable storing them in my home. If I end up feeling a need to have a physical copy of the card in my collection, I can always buy a lesser grade version.

    Robb

    Reputation, ethics and integrity matter - I think that’s why.

    I mean, I’m a good guy - send them to me? My fees are lower and I guarantee the cards will be safe.

    Want my address?

    :wink:

    PS - Robb - I’m not going for a laugh at your expense, just pointing out the importance of the PWCC brand to the potential success of the Vault.

    Similar to George Bailey’s namesake savings and loan, it’s foundation and success is built upon the word and integrity of the proprietor.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • graygatorgraygator Posts: 447 ✭✭✭✭

    Reputation, ethics, integrity, and I’m not sure I’d want my “assets” sitting in their vault if the feds come a knockin’.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would always have a nagging fear in the back of my mind that if one of our countries alphabet agencies ever were to pay the vault a "visit", perhaps all of its contents would take a long trip into an evidence locker??

    maybe my tinfoil hat is on just a little too tight today...

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019 6:44AM

    @balco758 said:
    Thanks to all for the updates. I was unaware of any issues. And unfortunately, a bit naive.

    Personally, I am 95% a collector so the Vault concept didn’t have any appeal for me.

    DBesse27, no troll here. Not my style.

    Steve

    I didn’t mean you. I have no idea who you are and didn’t know your name was Steve. I’m referring to the OP, a friend of mine.

    Regarding the poster or two (I forget who) who said that PWCC’s ethics in this one scandal are a separate issue from their vault service, I would simply say this: I personally do not put my items with the highest sentimental and monetary value into the hands of people I don’t trust. It’s that simple.

    This is also not a free service, and I don’t knowingly send funds to people I think are unethical. You don’t have to agree with my reasoning, but I think it’s at least important that you understand why some of us have this aversion.

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox

  • rcmb3220rcmb3220 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:

    @fergie23 said:
    Some day, folks here will realize that the majority of the high grade vintage cards have been altered/conserved. PSA has never been able to reliably detect this sort of alternation/conservation.

    Robb

    That is exactly the type of broad-brush, damning statement that we need to avoid here. Like I said, healthy dialogue is one thing, but slinging wide=spread accusations is another. Please do not post this type of thing again. Thank you.

    Agreed. Let’s also be aware and appreciative that this board is now being moderated correctly. Thank you, Todd.

  • 70ToppsFanatic70ToppsFanatic Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭✭

    @Desert_Ice_Sports said:

    However, this is the type of thing that could bring the entire hobby to its knees...
    For all parties involved, there's a right way to handle this and a wrong way... The wrong way is to deny that you or your organization has done anything wrong and insist that everyone else is to blame... Unfortunately, that seems to be how we Americans generally operate... If that happens, EVERYONE is going to end up losing in the end, including thousands of us who have no connection whatsoever to any of this.

    The right way would be for all parties involved to get together, admit their part in it, and hash this out BEFORE it gets any bigger... Because I'm a realist, I doubt this will happen, but I sure hope it does because I loved this hobby long before I decided to make a living at it, and thousands more like me deserve better than to have it ruined by a few greedy people.

    +1000

    It’s all about INTEGRITY. Either you have it or you don’t.

    It is for each of us to decide for ourselves where all of the stakeholders in this stand based on what they DO, not just what they say.



    Dave
  • balco758balco758 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    DeBease27,

    Apologies. My overreaction for thinking I was being called a troll.

    My name is Steve and love all PSA 9s from 70s and unopened. I’ve been around the boards for 10+ years.

    Nice to meet you. :)

  • JHS5120JHS5120 Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭

    I have consigned to maybe 7 or 8 auction houses in my life, PWCC offers the best service by far. With that said, reading through many of these threads is disappointing. I hope an actual resolution to this issue is reached.

    My eBay Store =)

    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s a lot of items graded and to my knowledge that figure does not include rejections. So this question is sincere: how many cards are we really talking about? I haven’t gotten to tallying up the alleged cards but when it’s at 740,000, that will get it pretty close to 1 percent.

    With the amount of money at stake with respect to this hobby at the highest end of cards (and collectibles, in general), the incentive is too great and the payoff is too high for unethical folks not to continually try to ‘beat the system’ and hammer away with sub after sub in the hopes of getting it into one of the 3 respected holders and to expect any of them to get it right 100% of the time is not realistic.

    I know - if I could ever bring myself to spend $50,000 on a card - I would have to have a rider in there that at MY (or shared) expense, the card must pass at all three places cleanly before I turned over funds. Anyone unwilling, I’m walking. If it means I have to wait for another copy, so be it.

    After all, it’s my money and it’s quite a bit. Enough to consider a house as an alternative. That type of purchase means you have to do a considerable amount of homework or you are headed down a bad path that is only going to cost you more in both money and aggravation down the line.

    Take your time and get it right.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @balco758 said:
    DeBease27,

    Apologies. My overreaction for thinking I was being called a troll.

    My name is Steve and love all PSA 9s from 70s and unopened. I’ve been around the boards for 10+ years.

    Nice to meet you. :)

    Nice to meet you as well!

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The scandal has gotten out of control, and I just hope something is done soon to put the fire out. This has become watergate in the hobby. Alterationgate.

  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    That’s a lot of items graded and to my knowledge that figure does not include rejections. So this question is sincere: how many cards are we really talking about? I haven’t gotten to tallying up the alleged cards but when it’s at 740,000, that will get it pretty close to 1 percent.

    With the amount of money at stake with respect to this hobby at the highest end of cards (and collectibles, in general), the incentive is too great and the payoff is too high for unethical folks not to continually try to ‘beat the system’ and hammer away with sub after sub in the hopes of getting it into one of the 3 respected holders and to expect any of them to get it right 100% of the time is not realistic.

    I know - if I could ever bring myself to spend $50,000 on a card - I would have to have a rider in there that at MY (or shared) expense, the card must pass at all three places cleanly before I turned over funds. Anyone unwilling, I’m walking. If it means I have to wait for another copy, so be it.

    After all, it’s my money and it’s quite a bit. Enough to consider a house as an alternative. That type of purchase means you have to do a considerable amount of homework or you are headed down a bad path that is only going to cost you more in both money and aggravation down the line.

    Take your time and get it right.

    That 74 million is, I believe, all items certified by Collectors Universe. Coins, stamps, currency, etc, not just cards.

    Promethius881969@yahoo.com
  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    That’s a lot of items graded and to my knowledge that figure does not include rejections. So this question is sincere: how many cards are we really talking about? I haven’t gotten to tallying up the alleged cards but when it’s at 740,000, that will get it pretty close to 1 percent.

    With the amount of money at stake with respect to this hobby at the highest end of cards (and collectibles, in general), the incentive is too great and the payoff is too high for unethical folks not to continually try to ‘beat the system’ and hammer away with sub after sub in the hopes of getting it into one of the 3 respected holders and to expect any of them to get it right 100% of the time is not realistic.

    I know - if I could ever bring myself to spend $50,000 on a card - I would have to have a rider in there that at MY (or shared) expense, the card must pass at all three places cleanly before I turned over funds. Anyone unwilling, I’m walking. If it means I have to wait for another copy, so be it.

    After all, it’s my money and it’s quite a bit. Enough to consider a house as an alternative. That type of purchase means you have to do a considerable amount of homework or you are headed down a bad path that is only going to cost you more in both money and aggravation down the line.

    Take your time and get it right.

    That 74 million number, I believe, is all collectibles certified by Collectors Universe. Coins, stamps, paper money and whatever else. That is not just cards.

    Promethius881969@yahoo.com
  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 74 million number, I believe, is all collectibles certified by Collectors Universe. Coins, stamps, paper money and whatever else. That is not just cards.

    Promethius881969@yahoo.com
  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 74 million number, I believe, is all collectibles certified by Collectors Universe. Coins, stamps, paper money and whatever else. That is not just cards.

    Promethius881969@yahoo.com
  • Kep13Kep13 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭

    I just spent an hour or so going thru the thread on blowoutcards' forum -- pretty crazy, but clear to see that cards did get altered. I guess with how good these crooks are, how can the altered cards be caught by third party graders? If the cut is straight and clean, and they seem to be since they use a laser cutter or something similar -- how can one catch this unless it is one of the numbered parallel cards and they have the before picture, which obviously isn't an option? If every card has to measure the exact same size or it gets rejected, we all know a ton of cards would mistakenly get rejected. For the good of all and this hobby and card grading -- I just sit here and wonder, if I were a card grader going thru thousands of cards a day, how would I be able to tell these altered cards from an unaltered example? It sucks that a handful of people have to abuse the system, but when money is involved (and in these cases a lot of money), the crooks will crawl out of the woodwork.

  • graygatorgraygator Posts: 447 ✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    That’s a lot of items graded and to my knowledge that figure does not include rejections. So this question is sincere: how many cards are we really talking about?>

    Right now I’d say somewhere between too many and abandon ship.

    To me it isn’t so much the raw numbers, though that appears to be an impressive amount, as it is the seeming failure on a core element of PSA’s reason for being as a result of a systematic effort with (I think we can say with some confidence) at the very least the knowledge of a primary PSA seller and advertiser.

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would caution anyone considering using offsite storage for cards to read up on some of the issues wine collectors have had with offsite storage. In short, your stuff is safe till it isn’t and don’t expect the vendors insurance to cover any loss. You will still want to carry insurance and if you vendor runs into financial trouble, look out.

    Not suggesting that pwcc isn’t trustworthy but there are lots of wine collectors that have been burnt by very similar models.

    Bottom line I would use the vault short term to sell items, long term storage no chance I give a small business high priced cards that are easily stored at home or at a bank.

Sign In or Register to comment.