@craig44 said:
I think the price should be the price. I would not like to be called up after the work is done and be given an upcharge.
Let's say you send in a very nice raw 1980 Topps Rickey Henderson and assume you have a solid shot at a 9 and put $400 on the submission form and submit it under the $100 to $500 service level. It comes back a 10 and instead is worth $25,000. You in reality sent the card in on the wrong service level and PSA comes in and charges you the appropriate amount. I see no problem with them wanting a piece of the action. It is my understanding it is only done in scenarios where it is much higher than the declared value. I have sent in plenty of cards on the collectors club special that once graded far exceed the $100 threshold and have not once been hit with the upcharge. The good news is it is their opinion that catapults the value so the submitter is only winning in this scenario.
Maybe I am unsure how this works. when a raw card is submitted, do you not choose your service level based on the raw value? or are you supposed to guess at what the card may grade when you choose the value for service level?
I honestly dont know. while I own oodles of PSA cards, I have never submitted any.
I think a good rule of thumb is just be reasonable. If a card always sells for more than $100 raw don't try and send it in under the specials and instead use a renewal voucher or an equivalent service level.
Many cards have huge jumps in value from grade to grade so it isn't reasonable to expect everyone to send a raw Henderson in that they think has a shot at a 10 and pay that service level but in the unlikely event it does get a 10 it is fair for PSA to asses the additional fees because it did. If I had a high end Henderson I would use the Mint graded value as the declared value and go with that.
Anyone who has submitted cards has received a grade that is higher or lower than their own assessment so once again simply assuming you are getting a 10 and paying that rate isn't fair to the customer.
The first time I had heard about PSA doing this was someone I know self submitted a 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A Hulk Hogan and got a PSA 9. You can send that card in at the $100 to $500 level because every grade other than a 9 sells in that range. Because their card was graded a 9 it was now nearly six times the limit and PSA hit them for the up charge. I personally would love to have a scenario like this happen to me!
I use either replacement value or an amount that coincides with what I think the card will be worth. The last time I sent in a Hogan I thought it was an 8 and used a $400 value and it got an 8 so I was fair to PSA and I also had a return insurance amount that covered the card. This isn't a perfect science because obviously lower pop cards can have a dramatic change in value so in that case I would use my cost or an amount that is in between grades. The last sub I did I sent in a bunch of 1985 Topps WWF cards. With that sub every card I chose graded Mint or higher and so I used the Mint value as declared value and fortunately got some 10's that drove the values significantly higher and there was no issue.
Hot take: people who can't afford the PSA upcharge for a 40k card (couple hundred bucks?) should not be buying thousand dollar Pokemon cards in the first place.
Yes, there are Pokémon sites. And some cards in PSA 10 have hit 100,000.00.
Here’s one of my listings showing off my Charizard collection which is valued Ive a million dollars. It’s not just a kids game anymore. I’m 65;)
@MrHockey said:
Hot take: people who can't afford the PSA upcharge for a 40k card (couple hundred bucks?) should not be buying thousand dollar Pokemon cards in the first place.
Plenty of collectors buy cards when they initially come out. Years later, the card is worth thousands of dollars.
For instance, in 2000 people bought packs of Playoff Contenders cards; some even pulled Tom Brady rookie cards. It cost them what, a couple of dollars?
Now, that card in PSA 10 is worth $100K+.
The person wants to get it graded. They send it in for grading, and value at at the PSA 9 price. PSA then comes back to them, saying they need to pay more, because PSA has graded it a 10! The person doesn't have the money to pay the upcharge.
Now, you say they shouldn't have the card at all, since they can't afford the upcharge?
@MrHockey said:
Hot take: people who can't afford the PSA upcharge for a 40k card (couple hundred bucks?) should not be buying thousand dollar Pokemon cards in the first place.
Plenty of collectors buy cards when they initially come out. Years later, the card is worth thousands of dollars.
For instance, in 2000 people bought packs of Playoff Contenders cards; some even pulled Tom Brady rookie cards. It cost them what, a couple of dollars?
Now, that card in PSA 10 is worth $100K+.
The person wants to get it graded. They send it in for grading, and value at at the PSA 9 price. PSA then comes back to them, saying they need to pay more, because PSA has graded it a 10! The person doesn't have the money to pay the upcharge.
Now, you say they shouldn't have the card at all, since they can't afford the upcharge?
You are full of &%it!!!!!
Steve
Ahhhh...finally somebody with at least half a brain;)
Hotter take: if you can't afford a couple hundred bucks, but own a card that is worth thousands, you shouldn't be parking your disposable income in cards.
If you own a 2000 Playoff Contender Tom Brady that could be worth 5 digits, but are rocking paycheck to paycheck, sell it.
@MrHockey said:
Hotter take: if you can't afford a couple hundred bucks, but own a card that is worth thousands, you shouldn't be parking your disposable income in cards.
I say again,
In the scenario I mentioned above, the collector has less than $10 into the card in question. Now, to get it graded, PSA is going to charge them thousands of dollars to get it back.
Say the collector submits the card, with a value determined by their feeling that it will grade an 8. The last PSA 8 Playoff Contenders Tom Brady PSA 8 sold for $15K on ebay. They somehow come up with the $1,000 grading fee, and send it and the card to PSA.
A few days later, PSA lets them know that because the card graded a 10, they now owe PSA another $4,000, as the card now has a value over $100,000. The collector does not have the extra $4K available. What do they do?
@MrHockey said:
Hotter take: if you can't afford a couple hundred bucks, but own a card that is worth thousands, you shouldn't be parking your disposable income in cards.
I say again,
In the scenario I mentioned above, the collector has less than $10 into the card in question. Now, to get it graded, PSA is going to charge them thousands of dollars to get it back.
Say the collector submits the card, with a value determined by their feeling that it will grade an 8. The last PSA 8 Playoff Contenders Tom Brady PSA 8 sold for $15K on ebay. They somehow come up with the $1,000 grading fee, and send it and the card to PSA.
A few days later, PSA lets them know that because the card graded a 10, they now owe PSA another $4,000, as the card now has a value over $100,000. The collector does not have the extra $4K available. What do they do?
Steve
If it's me, I borrow the money to pay the upcharge as PSA is handing me 100 grand for the holdered card.
On the other hand, you could always keep the card raw.
I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would be complaining about something like this. This is the email from PSA that submitters dream of getting.
Certainly a very nice "problem" to have!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Option 1: decline and get the card returned to you.
Option 2: accept, pay the 4k, sell the card raking in $100,000, use proceeds to buy an 8 and pay for 4k grading, be financially secure
Both seem like a fine plan. Is it really $4,000 to grade a card of that value? I could be off my rocker but that seems high.
EDIT: Of all the times that this has happened at PSA, and it is rare but with their volume it happens, I'm guessing that Option 1 essentially never gets chosen, for a very good reason. That which Grote states clearly: it's a massive win for the submitter. People find a way when six figures of found money just turn up.
@MrHockey said:
Is it really $4,000 to grade a card of that value? I could be off my rocker but that seems high.
From PSA's website:
PREMIUM ELITE *$5000
Any card with a declared value of $100,000 or higher must be submitted at this service level.
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
PREMIUM PLUS *$3000
Maximum declared value of $99,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
PREMIUM *$1000
Maximum declared value of $24,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
WALK-THROUGH *$500
Maximum declared value of $9,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
SUPER EXPRESS *$200
Maximum declared value of $4,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 2 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "2 Day Service"
EXPRESS *$75
Maximum declared value of $1,999 and all T3s must be submitted at this service level or higher.
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 8 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "8 Day Service"
REGULAR *$20
Maximum declared value of $499
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 25 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "25 Day Service"
I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would be complaining about something like this. This is the email from PSA that submitters dream of getting.
Certainly a very nice "problem" to have!
This. The owner of the card was just "given" $35k, should he choose to sell. If this is the 98th Charizard in his collection, one would think he could sell one to come up with the grading fee. Unless, of course, he is trying to "catch em' all".
@MrHockey said:
Good to know. Steve, what do you think of the options that I provided to answer your question?
I honestly don't know what I would do.
I have more than a passing interest in this, as I do have a couple of Drew Brees RCs that I know would grade high. I'm very confident that one in particular (Playoff Contenders Rookie Ticket) would get at least a 9. If it grades a 10 though, which I feel is entirely possible, I would find it difficult to pay the grading/insurance fee to get it back.
I got the cards when they first came out, for less than $50 each.
Less hot take: I mean, I get it. Some people literally do not have $4,000, don't have a credit card they could put it on temporarily, don't have something they could sell to come up with short term cash to get a future huge score, couldn't pawn things, have no friends that they could get a loan from, don't have family that would float them money in exchange for a life changing infusion of funds, couldn't find a loan shark who would take a 200% return for 3 months of borrowing, but still love sports cards and spend $1000 on gradingjust one of them.
Oh wait, there's literally no one that does that.
I guess this is not a less hot take after all.
PS--you ignored option 1. You can literally decline the upcharge and get your item returned. That's why they are asking you to agree to the terms via the 'you got money bags, congrats!' email they send.
Other ideas:
-- take money from your IRA (4k now incurs a penalty... you get literally $100,000 for doing so). If you do not have anything in retirement, you should not be paying 1k/pop to grade sports cards. I know, I'm a tremendous dick for saying that, but, well, it's true.
-- grade cards 1 at a time. If you have a 'couple' Brees cards that could jackpot, do 1 now. If it does, you can sell the other to pay for the grading. If you would be sad to sell, get the $100,000 and go wild and buy back your card plus a dozen more. After all, you have $100,000.
-- post on Facebook. "Hey, friends, I have PSA here saying my card is a 10. That's worth $100,000. I just can't afford it. No, I'm not a Nigerian Prince, I'm just a guy with a bag of money that is one inch out of reach. Anyone willing to send me $4,000 and in return I will give you back $15,000? We can write up a contract."
-- post here. If you screenshotted this and described the terms, you could get floated the money easily in exchange for a really good ROI. Again, it's $100,000 of very easy money.
-- GoFundMe Drew Brees edition
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
@initialD said:
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth is an admonishment to be grateful when receiving a present and not to find fault with that present.
Submitters wet dream right there
Why don’t you ask them to touch a corner and just grade it a 9 and call it a day. 🤦🏻♂️
How is it a gift horse if you’re simply getting what the card deserves? You must think PSA would upgrade a card just to get a 4000.00 upcharge? I admit it looks bad for PSA with this policy and it could be best if they removed that possible look of impropriety.
@initialD said:
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth is an admonishment to be grateful when receiving a present and not to find fault with that present.
Submitters wet dream right there
Why don’t you ask them to touch a corner and just grade it a 9 and call it a day. 🤦🏻♂️
How is it a gift horse if you’re simply getting what the card deserves? You must think PSA would upgrade a card just to get a 4000.00 upcharge? I admit it looks bad for PSA with this policy and it could be best if they removed that possible look of impropriety.
If it's "what the card deserves", then you also deserve to pay the accurate declared value price, no?
On a serious note, would a bank float a $4K loan with PSA or eBay sales data on the card as collateral to show that you’ll easily be able to pay it back once the card sells? Of course, if you’re holding then it becomes less of an option... HELOC or home loan, if you’re lucky enough to own and have equity. I mean, in the case of the OP we’re talking a submission fee of $1K with PSA coming back and asking for an additional $2K - that’s something like an immediate 2,000% gain on that investment, so the owner should be turning over every single rock that they can to make this happen.
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
Yes, they could limit the grade commensurate to your submission level. For example, if you submit a card at a service level that allows for the value of said card up to PSA 9 grade, then that is the highest grade PSA will assign. No possibility of a PSA 10, or any grade that would require a more expensive service level, in other words.
Or just ask for the card to be return unholdered. There's really nothing confusing or causing delay whatsoever here.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
There's really nothing confusing or causing delay whatsoever here.
I don’t think your suggestion would be acceptable to PSA because you’d be asking them to assign an undetermined grade.
And you say there’s nothing here that would cause a delay? Wrong again buddy. To upcharge they have to put the order on hold. Then they need an employee to contact customer service. Customer service then has to email the member and explain why they want more money. Then, they have to wait for a reply. Often the customer needs more info or further explanation. Another back and forth can occur which causes more employee action hence further delays.
Nice try but your alternative solution won’t work:(
@Garyis2000 said:
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
Well the obviously correct answer is that submitters have to declare the value of a card in 10, regardless of how many pinholes the card has. Why this is unappetizing for all concerned is an exercise left to the reader.
@Garyis2000 said:
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
Well the obviously correct answer is that submitters have to declare the value of a card in 10, regardless of how many pinholes the card has. Why this is unappetizing for all concerned is an exercise left to the reader.
This video by the owner/seller of the highest end PSA Pokémon deals, plus a featured contributor of the Sports Market Report, speaks on this subject in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLLizzzLMSw
It doesn't matter if its Pokemon, T206 or a Saved by the Bell Zack Morris RC, if the declared value does not even come close to the true value after grading, you must pony up the difference. There are many others on these boards who have been featured in the SMR, SCD and anywhere else you can think of and they will agree that the true value of the card must coincide with the service level. PSA only does this in extreme circumstances and certainly not an everyday occurance. I have submitted cards through the bulk service level with the declared value must be less than $100 and then gotten PSA 10's that sell for ~$1000. PSA did not ask for me to pay extra, though they could have if they saw fit. They are charging you the correct service level pricing to preserve the integrity of the brand.
@maddux69 said:
It doesn't matter if its Pokemon, T206 or a Saved by the Bell Zack Morris RC, if the declared value does not even come close to the true value after grading, you must pony up the difference. There are many others on these boards who have been featured in the SMR, SCD and anywhere else you can think of and they will agree that the true value of the card must coincide with the service level. PSA only does this in extreme circumstances and certainly not an everyday occurance. I have submitted cards through the bulk service level with the declared value must be less than $100 and then gotten PSA 10's that sell for ~$1000. PSA did not ask for me to pay extra, though they could have if they saw fit. They are charging you the correct service level pricing to preserve the integrity of the brand.
"If the values do not align, you must N9"
Even you admitted it was charged selectively. That’s another problem. Not all orders or submitters are treated the same...at least that’s the appearance.
Why not just add a buck or two to all cards submitted and eliminate the tiers as far as value is concerned? Let the member pick and pay for an insurance amount. Limit the grade guarantee or just add another buck to each order to cover any misgrade that may occur?
There has to be a better way.
So you're telling me that people should pay an additional $1 or $2 a card to grade a card that is worth about $5 just to cover the difference for a card that is worth $40k?
When the submission was placed, the person submitting agreed to the terms and conditions which states the following at the bottom of the form:
_ IF ITEMS ARE SUBMITTED FOR SERVICES FOR WHICH THEY DO NOT QUALIFY, I AUTHORIZE PSA TO CORRECT THE ORDER AND CHARGE ANY ADDITIONAL AUTHENTICATION, GRADING, HANDLING AND SHIPPING FEES THAT MAY APPLY._
And as my friend Jimmy Pineapple would say, "case closed".
PSA’s opinion of the card is the the cards value - without the slab and 10 grade, the card will not command anywhere near $100,000. Plain and simple.
Since they have 10 million cards to handle and you have one, THEY have to get the benefit of the doubt here.
You intimate that PSA is unethical in this situation; couldn’t the same be said of you? Attempting to slip a Charizard 10 in for grading at regular prices? You say they’re taking 4000 from you, aren’t you also guilty of trying to take 3800+?
It works both ways; you just need to be willing to see it. Their system clearly works, though, as they are clearly the premier name in third party grading and have been - with this policy in place - for a long, long time.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I have always thought of PSA as a business that literally mints money.
You pay them a fee to look at a piece of cardboard and if it passes their test it can skyrocket in value.
The rate of return on this card that has been submitted is astronomical and the notion that somehow it isn't fair or that PSA is at fault is beyond laughable. Here I pay you $1,000 and my card becomes a $5,000 card or I pay you $3,000 and it now becomes a $40,000 card. This isn't a tough decision.
As Maddux said there are plenty of board members who have been in the SMR and whether one has been or hasn't is irrelevant in the discussion.
As someone mentioned earlier, what if the card was lost in return shipping? Would you want it insured for the 9 or the 10 value? We’re talking 5-digit price delta here. Yes, you should pay the bump or decline. This is not a new policy and there’s no one-size fits all for pricing the up charge. They only do this on extreme conditions. 5k to 40k is extreme. I’ve been grading with PSA since 2004 and have never been hit with an up charge, but I’d enjoy getting that email.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
This is closing in on the dumbest discussion I have ever seen on this board. The submitter was just handed $35,000 and is complaining about it.
As someone already said, a "solution" would be to cap the grade at the declared value for high end cards. If you submit it at the $5,000 declared value limit then your maximum grade would be a 9 for the Charizard 1st edition. Simple enough. No submitter would do this of course because then they would potentially be leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table.
In this specific instance, the submitter can ask for the card to be returned ungraded. They won't because they are greedy - like anyone would be - and now care about the $40k not "owning the card".
Instead of whining about a policy that has been around for a long time, celebrate the good fortune that the submitter won the lottery and has a $40,000 card.
@fergie23 said:
This is closing in on the dumbest discussion I have ever seen on this board. The submitter was just handed $35,000 and is complaining about it.
As someone already said, a "solution" would be to cap the grade at the declared value for high end cards. If you submit it at the $5,000 declared value limit then your maximum grade would be a 9 for the Charizard 1st edition. Simple enough. No submitter would do this of course because then they would potentially be leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table.
In this specific instance, the submitter can ask for the card to be returned ungraded. They won't because they are greedy - like anyone would be - and now care about the $40k not "owning the card".
Instead of whining about a policy that has been around for a long time, celebrate the good fortune that the submitter won the lottery and has a $40,000 card.
Robb
This post is bang on, but really could have used an “I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul” ending.
Your notion of a generous grade to take more money out of your pocket (while restuffing your wardrobe with cash) is more of an impropriety on your part for subbing a gem mint card at a lower level. A mistake anyone in their right mind would love to make. All the time. Everyday
Instead of complaining about PSA’s ransom request, why not just ask for advice on how to make the windfall happen?
Shoot, I’d bet that Brent from PWCC would front the dough to get that puppy in his next auction. PSA would ship it straight to him. Likely even advance you some get by money. Crush it at auction and lop off a tasty chunk for himself. Smart man making money
We’ve managed to bury the lead here, there’s a Pokémon board? Initial D said PWCC would front him the money to be able to put the card in his next auction. If the OP doesn’t think the PSA process is fair I’ll pay the entire $4k grading fee and even throw another $1000 your way and I’ll somehow manage with that card
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
There's really nothing confusing or causing delay whatsoever here.
I don’t think your suggestion would be acceptable to PSA because you’d be asking them to assign an undetermined grade.
And you say there’s nothing here that would cause a delay? Wrong again buddy. To upcharge they have to put the order on hold. Then they need an employee to contact customer service. Customer service then has to email the member and explain why they want more money. Then, they have to wait for a reply. Often the customer needs more info or further explanation. Another back and forth can occur which causes more employee action hence further delays.
Nice try but your alternative solution won’t work:(
My alternative solution was tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously, much like your complaint that started this thread.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So after all of this, I need some clarification. Does the card actually belong to the OP and what is the current status of the card?? Is it still sitting at PSA waiting to get paid for and shipped back?
I have some stuff being shipped back to me in the next day or two. I would be happy to pay the extra fee and have it included in my shipment. Or.... since the submitter only planned on getting a 9 valued at $5k....not sure if it was submitted under the $20 level or $1k or whatever...maybe I missed that, but I will pay the owner whatever grading fee was already paid and the difference between that and the $5k. Then there are no more issues. The submitter gets back what he/she originally thought they would get and doesn't have to worry about coming up with extra cash for the grading fees. You're welcome!
Seemingly in today's world, there is literally nothing--even the most fortuitous, lucrative happenstance--where somebody somewhere won't become outraged.
@Garyis2000 said:
This has happened now to several of us. A mint card worth about 5000.00 in a 9 so you submit it under that amount. Now it gets a 10 and is worth 40,000 so they email asking for a lot more money,
Has it happened to anyone else here? What do you think about it?
welcome to the forum
Thanks. Yes, as someone mentioned above, it was a 1st Ed Base Charizard. They hoped for a 9 which would be worth 5000.00 but got a $40,000.00 10. Isn’t the charge to submit at that level a couple thousand? He didn’t have that kind of money to pay.
Yes, he got lucky but changing a customers cost midstream seems odd. Plus, it could encourage more generous grades which takes more money out of your pocket. Just the appearance of impropriety can hurt a compan> @Garyis2000 said:
@Garyis2000 said:
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
Well the obviously correct answer is that submitters have to declare the value of a card in 10, regardless of how many pinholes the card has. Why this is unappetizing for all concerned is an exercise left to the reader.
This video by the owner/seller of the highest end PSA Pokémon deals, plus a featured contributor of the Sports Market Report, speaks on this subject in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLLizzzLMSw
I have some stuff being shipped back to me in the next day or two. I would be happy to pay the extra fee and have it included in my shipment. Or.... since the submitter only planned on getting a 9 valued at $5k....not sure if it was submitted under the $20 level or $1k or whatever...maybe I missed that, but I will pay the owner whatever grading fee was already paid and the difference between that and the $5k. Then there are no more issues. The submitter gets back what he/she originally thought they would get and doesn't have to worry about coming up with extra cash for the grading fees. You're welcome!
This. The OP is more concerned with ~$1k than $35k, so the OP might as well do this.
This thread reminds me of that expression "stepping over $50 bills to pick up dimes"
Yes, there are Pokémon sites. And some cards in PSA 10 have hit 100,000.00.
Here’s one of my listings showing off my Charizard collection which is valued Ive a million dollars. It’s not just a kids game anymore. I’m 65;)
Comments
I think a good rule of thumb is just be reasonable. If a card always sells for more than $100 raw don't try and send it in under the specials and instead use a renewal voucher or an equivalent service level.
Many cards have huge jumps in value from grade to grade so it isn't reasonable to expect everyone to send a raw Henderson in that they think has a shot at a 10 and pay that service level but in the unlikely event it does get a 10 it is fair for PSA to asses the additional fees because it did. If I had a high end Henderson I would use the Mint graded value as the declared value and go with that.
Anyone who has submitted cards has received a grade that is higher or lower than their own assessment so once again simply assuming you are getting a 10 and paying that rate isn't fair to the customer.
The first time I had heard about PSA doing this was someone I know self submitted a 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A Hulk Hogan and got a PSA 9. You can send that card in at the $100 to $500 level because every grade other than a 9 sells in that range. Because their card was graded a 9 it was now nearly six times the limit and PSA hit them for the up charge. I personally would love to have a scenario like this happen to me!
I use either replacement value or an amount that coincides with what I think the card will be worth. The last time I sent in a Hogan I thought it was an 8 and used a $400 value and it got an 8 so I was fair to PSA and I also had a return insurance amount that covered the card. This isn't a perfect science because obviously lower pop cards can have a dramatic change in value so in that case I would use my cost or an amount that is in between grades. The last sub I did I sent in a bunch of 1985 Topps WWF cards. With that sub every card I chose graded Mint or higher and so I used the Mint value as declared value and fortunately got some 10's that drove the values significantly higher and there was no issue.
I hope you get it figured out and quickly get that card home safely. Seriously if you have issues PM me.
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
True, but in order to get the money to pay the increased fee, he would have to sell the card!
What if he's a collector, and does not want to sell the card? He wants it for his personal collection.
Steve
These guys have great icons!
Hot take: people who can't afford the PSA upcharge for a 40k card (couple hundred bucks?) should not be buying thousand dollar Pokemon cards in the first place.
Yes, there are Pokémon sites. And some cards in PSA 10 have hit 100,000.00.
Here’s one of my listings showing off my Charizard collection which is valued Ive a million dollars. It’s not just a kids game anymore. I’m 65;)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-PSA-10-CHARIZARDS-10-1st-EDITION-BASE-12-SHADOWLESS-30-BGS-9-5-6x10s-Pokemon/122158629192?hash=item1c7138c148:g:H4oAAOSw2kVbdQTz
Plenty of collectors buy cards when they initially come out. Years later, the card is worth thousands of dollars.
For instance, in 2000 people bought packs of Playoff Contenders cards; some even pulled Tom Brady rookie cards. It cost them what, a couple of dollars?
Now, that card in PSA 10 is worth $100K+.
The person wants to get it graded. They send it in for grading, and value at at the PSA 9 price. PSA then comes back to them, saying they need to pay more, because PSA has graded it a 10! The person doesn't have the money to pay the upcharge.
Now, you say they shouldn't have the card at all, since they can't afford the upcharge?
Steve
(Edited to tone down the rhetoric)
I saw this as a possibility with this kind of OP.
Sure would be nice if we could keep this from getting too "personal" - if ya know what I mean?
Ahhhh...finally somebody with at least half a brain;)
Hotter take: if you can't afford a couple hundred bucks, but own a card that is worth thousands, you shouldn't be parking your disposable income in cards.
If you own a 2000 Playoff Contender Tom Brady that could be worth 5 digits, but are rocking paycheck to paycheck, sell it.
I say again,
In the scenario I mentioned above, the collector has less than $10 into the card in question. Now, to get it graded, PSA is going to charge them thousands of dollars to get it back.
Say the collector submits the card, with a value determined by their feeling that it will grade an 8. The last PSA 8 Playoff Contenders Tom Brady PSA 8 sold for $15K on ebay. They somehow come up with the $1,000 grading fee, and send it and the card to PSA.
A few days later, PSA lets them know that because the card graded a 10, they now owe PSA another $4,000, as the card now has a value over $100,000. The collector does not have the extra $4K available. What do they do?
Steve
If it's me, I borrow the money to pay the upcharge as PSA is handing me 100 grand for the holdered card.
On the other hand, you could always keep the card raw.
I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would be complaining about something like this. This is the email from PSA that submitters dream of getting.
Certainly a very nice "problem" to have!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Option 1: decline and get the card returned to you.
Option 2: accept, pay the 4k, sell the card raking in $100,000, use proceeds to buy an 8 and pay for 4k grading, be financially secure
Both seem like a fine plan. Is it really $4,000 to grade a card of that value? I could be off my rocker but that seems high.
EDIT: Of all the times that this has happened at PSA, and it is rare but with their volume it happens, I'm guessing that Option 1 essentially never gets chosen, for a very good reason. That which Grote states clearly: it's a massive win for the submitter. People find a way when six figures of found money just turn up.
From PSA's website:
PREMIUM ELITE *$5000
Any card with a declared value of $100,000 or higher must be submitted at this service level.
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
PREMIUM PLUS *$3000
Maximum declared value of $99,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
PREMIUM *$1000
Maximum declared value of $24,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
WALK-THROUGH *$500
Maximum declared value of $9,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Please mark outside of shipment box with "1 Day Service"
SUPER EXPRESS *$200
Maximum declared value of $4,999
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 2 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "2 Day Service"
EXPRESS *$75
Maximum declared value of $1,999 and all T3s must be submitted at this service level or higher.
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 8 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "8 Day Service"
REGULAR *$20
Maximum declared value of $499
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 25 Business Days
Please mark outside of shipment box with "25 Day Service"
Steve
Good to know. Steve, what do you think of the options that I provided to answer your question?
This. The owner of the card was just "given" $35k, should he choose to sell. If this is the 98th Charizard in his collection, one would think he could sell one to come up with the grading fee. Unless, of course, he is trying to "catch em' all".
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
I honestly don't know what I would do.
I have more than a passing interest in this, as I do have a couple of Drew Brees RCs that I know would grade high. I'm very confident that one in particular (Playoff Contenders Rookie Ticket) would get at least a 9. If it grades a 10 though, which I feel is entirely possible, I would find it difficult to pay the grading/insurance fee to get it back.
I got the cards when they first came out, for less than $50 each.
Steve
Less hot take: I mean, I get it. Some people literally do not have $4,000, don't have a credit card they could put it on temporarily, don't have something they could sell to come up with short term cash to get a future huge score, couldn't pawn things, have no friends that they could get a loan from, don't have family that would float them money in exchange for a life changing infusion of funds, couldn't find a loan shark who would take a 200% return for 3 months of borrowing, but still love sports cards and spend $1000 on grading just one of them.
Oh wait, there's literally no one that does that.
I guess this is not a less hot take after all.
PS--you ignored option 1. You can literally decline the upcharge and get your item returned. That's why they are asking you to agree to the terms via the 'you got money bags, congrats!' email they send.
Other ideas:
-- take money from your IRA (4k now incurs a penalty... you get literally $100,000 for doing so). If you do not have anything in retirement, you should not be paying 1k/pop to grade sports cards. I know, I'm a tremendous dick for saying that, but, well, it's true.
-- grade cards 1 at a time. If you have a 'couple' Brees cards that could jackpot, do 1 now. If it does, you can sell the other to pay for the grading. If you would be sad to sell, get the $100,000 and go wild and buy back your card plus a dozen more. After all, you have $100,000.
-- post on Facebook. "Hey, friends, I have PSA here saying my card is a 10. That's worth $100,000. I just can't afford it. No, I'm not a Nigerian Prince, I'm just a guy with a bag of money that is one inch out of reach. Anyone willing to send me $4,000 and in return I will give you back $15,000? We can write up a contract."
-- post here. If you screenshotted this and described the terms, you could get floated the money easily in exchange for a really good ROI. Again, it's $100,000 of very easy money.
-- GoFundMe Drew Brees edition
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth is an admonishment to be grateful when receiving a present and not to find fault with that present.
Submitters wet dream right there
Why don’t you ask them to touch a corner and just grade it a 9 and call it a day. 🤦🏻♂️
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
How is it a gift horse if you’re simply getting what the card deserves? You must think PSA would upgrade a card just to get a 4000.00 upcharge? I admit it looks bad for PSA with this policy and it could be best if they removed that possible look of impropriety.
Just specify “Maximum Grade” on the form
This lets them know you don’t want to pay any up charges for any possible grade higher
If it's "what the card deserves", then you also deserve to pay the accurate declared value price, no?
Sorry, Gary, this just isn't your day.
What’s the going rate on a kidney these days?
On a serious note, would a bank float a $4K loan with PSA or eBay sales data on the card as collateral to show that you’ll easily be able to pay it back once the card sells? Of course, if you’re holding then it becomes less of an option... HELOC or home loan, if you’re lucky enough to own and have equity. I mean, in the case of the OP we’re talking a submission fee of $1K with PSA coming back and asking for an additional $2K - that’s something like an immediate 2,000% gain on that investment, so the owner should be turning over every single rock that they can to make this happen.
Jim
Can anybody think of a PSA policy solution that would eliminate upcharges altogether? One that lets the customer know what they’ll be paying in full at the time of submission? They only confuse people and slow down an already slow/delayed process.
Yes, they could limit the grade commensurate to your submission level. For example, if you submit a card at a service level that allows for the value of said card up to PSA 9 grade, then that is the highest grade PSA will assign. No possibility of a PSA 10, or any grade that would require a more expensive service level, in other words.
Or just ask for the card to be return unholdered. There's really nothing confusing or causing delay whatsoever here.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There's really nothing confusing or causing delay whatsoever here.
I don’t think your suggestion would be acceptable to PSA because you’d be asking them to assign an undetermined grade.
And you say there’s nothing here that would cause a delay? Wrong again buddy. To upcharge they have to put the order on hold. Then they need an employee to contact customer service. Customer service then has to email the member and explain why they want more money. Then, they have to wait for a reply. Often the customer needs more info or further explanation. Another back and forth can occur which causes more employee action hence further delays.
Nice try but your alternative solution won’t work:(
Well the obviously correct answer is that submitters have to declare the value of a card in 10, regardless of how many pinholes the card has. Why this is unappetizing for all concerned is an exercise left to the reader.
This video by the owner/seller of the highest end PSA Pokémon deals, plus a featured contributor of the Sports Market Report, speaks on this subject in this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLLizzzLMSw
It doesn't matter if its Pokemon, T206 or a Saved by the Bell Zack Morris RC, if the declared value does not even come close to the true value after grading, you must pony up the difference. There are many others on these boards who have been featured in the SMR, SCD and anywhere else you can think of and they will agree that the true value of the card must coincide with the service level. PSA only does this in extreme circumstances and certainly not an everyday occurance. I have submitted cards through the bulk service level with the declared value must be less than $100 and then gotten PSA 10's that sell for ~$1000. PSA did not ask for me to pay extra, though they could have if they saw fit. They are charging you the correct service level pricing to preserve the integrity of the brand.
"If the values do not align, you must N9"
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
Even you admitted it was charged selectively. That’s another problem. Not all orders or submitters are treated the same...at least that’s the appearance.
Why not just add a buck or two to all cards submitted and eliminate the tiers as far as value is concerned? Let the member pick and pay for an insurance amount. Limit the grade guarantee or just add another buck to each order to cover any misgrade that may occur?
There has to be a better way.
Anybody know if a Scooby Doo rookie card is worth anything? Scooby has been around a lot longer, and accomplished a lot more than any pokemon has.
So you're telling me that people should pay an additional $1 or $2 a card to grade a card that is worth about $5 just to cover the difference for a card that is worth $40k?
When the submission was placed, the person submitting agreed to the terms and conditions which states the following at the bottom of the form:
_ IF ITEMS ARE SUBMITTED FOR SERVICES FOR WHICH THEY DO NOT QUALIFY, I AUTHORIZE PSA TO CORRECT THE ORDER AND CHARGE ANY ADDITIONAL AUTHENTICATION, GRADING, HANDLING AND SHIPPING FEES THAT MAY APPLY._
And as my friend Jimmy Pineapple would say, "case closed".
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
Here’s the heart of the matter:
PSA’s opinion of the card is the the cards value - without the slab and 10 grade, the card will not command anywhere near $100,000. Plain and simple.
Since they have 10 million cards to handle and you have one, THEY have to get the benefit of the doubt here.
You intimate that PSA is unethical in this situation; couldn’t the same be said of you? Attempting to slip a Charizard 10 in for grading at regular prices? You say they’re taking 4000 from you, aren’t you also guilty of trying to take 3800+?
It works both ways; you just need to be willing to see it. Their system clearly works, though, as they are clearly the premier name in third party grading and have been - with this policy in place - for a long, long time.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
The trolling itt started subtlety, but now...
I have always thought of PSA as a business that literally mints money.
You pay them a fee to look at a piece of cardboard and if it passes their test it can skyrocket in value.
The rate of return on this card that has been submitted is astronomical and the notion that somehow it isn't fair or that PSA is at fault is beyond laughable. Here I pay you $1,000 and my card becomes a $5,000 card or I pay you $3,000 and it now becomes a $40,000 card. This isn't a tough decision.
As Maddux said there are plenty of board members who have been in the SMR and whether one has been or hasn't is irrelevant in the discussion.
As someone mentioned earlier, what if the card was lost in return shipping? Would you want it insured for the 9 or the 10 value? We’re talking 5-digit price delta here. Yes, you should pay the bump or decline. This is not a new policy and there’s no one-size fits all for pricing the up charge. They only do this on extreme conditions. 5k to 40k is extreme. I’ve been grading with PSA since 2004 and have never been hit with an up charge, but I’d enjoy getting that email.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
This is closing in on the dumbest discussion I have ever seen on this board. The submitter was just handed $35,000 and is complaining about it.
As someone already said, a "solution" would be to cap the grade at the declared value for high end cards. If you submit it at the $5,000 declared value limit then your maximum grade would be a 9 for the Charizard 1st edition. Simple enough. No submitter would do this of course because then they would potentially be leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table.
In this specific instance, the submitter can ask for the card to be returned ungraded. They won't because they are greedy - like anyone would be - and now care about the $40k not "owning the card".
Instead of whining about a policy that has been around for a long time, celebrate the good fortune that the submitter won the lottery and has a $40,000 card.
Robb
This post is bang on, but really could have used an “I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul” ending.
Your notion of a generous grade to take more money out of your pocket (while restuffing your wardrobe with cash) is more of an impropriety on your part for subbing a gem mint card at a lower level. A mistake anyone in their right mind would love to make. All the time. Everyday
Instead of complaining about PSA’s ransom request, why not just ask for advice on how to make the windfall happen?
Shoot, I’d bet that Brent from PWCC would front the dough to get that puppy in his next auction. PSA would ship it straight to him. Likely even advance you some get by money. Crush it at auction and lop off a tasty chunk for himself. Smart man making money
I'm still waiting for everyone to congratulate me on correctly guessing the card in question.
Congrats (from everyone)
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
We’ve managed to bury the lead here, there’s a Pokémon board? Initial D said PWCC would front him the money to be able to put the card in his next auction. If the OP doesn’t think the PSA process is fair I’ll pay the entire $4k grading fee and even throw another $1000 your way and I’ll somehow manage with that card
My alternative solution was tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously, much like your complaint that started this thread.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So after all of this, I need some clarification. Does the card actually belong to the OP and what is the current status of the card?? Is it still sitting at PSA waiting to get paid for and shipped back?
I have some stuff being shipped back to me in the next day or two. I would be happy to pay the extra fee and have it included in my shipment. Or.... since the submitter only planned on getting a 9 valued at $5k....not sure if it was submitted under the $20 level or $1k or whatever...maybe I missed that, but I will pay the owner whatever grading fee was already paid and the difference between that and the $5k. Then there are no more issues. The submitter gets back what he/she originally thought they would get and doesn't have to worry about coming up with extra cash for the grading fees. You're welcome!
The OP is from Nevada according to his $1.7 million ebay listing. I think it might be worth getting Chumlee involved.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
Seemingly in today's world, there is literally nothing--even the most fortuitous, lucrative happenstance--where somebody somewhere won't become outraged.
Case and point. Wow
this guy loves POKEMON
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
This. The OP is more concerned with ~$1k than $35k, so the OP might as well do this.
This thread reminds me of that expression "stepping over $50 bills to pick up dimes"
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
you are KING POKEMON ? i have seen your listing before....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama