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Gutsy move by the USMint
COCollector
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"They have decided to issue a commemorative coin without a congressional directive to do so."
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2019/04/monday-morning-brief-for-april-15-2019.html
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Interesting. Same coin news source with different takes on the 2020 coin.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1017401/mayflower-400th-anniversary-joint-venture-project-with-the-british-royal-mint#latest
Taking more government OUT of a decision?!?!? Count me in the "good idea" camp
Legislation for the 1920 Pilgrim half dollar took about two months to be introduced, voted on, and signed into law, all in the same year of issue.
The proposed 2020 commem program was first introduced in 2015 and in subsequent Congressional sessions, and has never come up for a vote in either the House of Representatives or the Senate.
Good for the new Mint Director for using existing authority to get something issued.
Mr. Gibbs can certainly think whatever he likes. I like the idea of the MINT making decisions without the POLITICS involved.
bob
I don’t think that this anything to celebrate. It’s one more example of the bureaucracy taking control and making its own laws independent of Congress. It means that the people are continually loosing control to a bureaucracy that is under the control and answerable no one.
That not say that the inept Congress is not equally at fault. Political division is rendering Congress more and more unable to perform its constitutional functions.
In Congress can’t approve a commemorative coin for the 2020 Pilgrim anniversary, then don’t issue one. I won’t miss it. There are too many commemorative coins already.
Why not? It seems everyone in D.C. does whatever they like so why not the mint?
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I agree that this sort of thing has pitfalls and is open to abuse (or over-use), but the fact is, they are not making their own laws - they are using existing authority that Congress have them in the past. If Congress doesn't want them doing this sort of thing then Congress should change the law.
I believe you owe Mr. Gibbs an apology. He has made no political statement, but your vulgar comment implies that he has.
I know Mr. Gibbs. He used to work for me, and we have maintained contact over the years. I believe that he is objecting to the Mint deciding that it can strike whatever it wants whenever it wants just so that it can sell it for a profit. The Judd catalogue has hundreds of examples in it of 19th Century "Mint sports" cobbled together to separate collectors from their money. It was a bad practice then, and it is a bad practice now.
TD
Hmmmmmm.
Personally I think they should stick to producing instruments of commerce, period. I'm not opposed to items made for collectors, but I'd rather it be done through a non-governmental or quasi-governmental agency.
Someone say free gold?
Guess not...
The law is the law. At the same time, I think the Mint is in a better place to determine such coinage. I refer you to the schlock that has been minted under congressional mandate in recent years.
It's a slippery slope. So under the bullion auspices maybe the mint next chooses to copy the Royal Canadian Mint and put crystals and colors on bullion? Maybe increase the output to 20-30 commemoratives annually? How about the technocrats in D.C. mint more politically charged themes?
Nah, as much as Congress IMO is failing America's citizenry, issuing this commemorative in this way potentially opens the figurative Pandora's Box.
I owe no apology, he has his opinion and I have mine, they are different. I'm tired of all the damn politics that makes its way into our coinage, from state quarters, to putting Kennedy on the half dollar, etc. If Congress gave the mint the authority and did not retract that authority then the Mint director can do as he pleases. I'm with him, why opt for a fight in Congress with all the shenanigans that go with.
bob
The secret service is going to be very busy if they have to chase them all down.
The black helicopters will blot out the sun
Somebody panic while I find the corkscrew.
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Yet no movement on putting a woman on a note and they won’t even talk about it.
They can approve innovation dollars but not the 400th anniversary of the mayflower. Doesn’t make sense.
No offense to Mr. Gibbs, but his writing is an opinion, not a news report. Opinions are always open to criticism.
And yes, while he may or may not be correct, he is making a political statement:
"The Mint’s decision to issue a coin that is truly commemorative in nature and that Congress has rejected is taking that authority in a dangerous direction. It should rethink the idea."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The US Mint will be even more out of control and produce various product lines of modern junk like Perth Mint and Royal Canadian Mint.
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The last part has questionable reasoning to me. Gibbs writes that the 2016 gold Winged Liberty, Standing Liberty and Walking Liberty coins "pay homage to popular coin series" but do "not commemorate historical events." I think the gold coins are commemoratives. It seems like he's trying to make an exception for the gold centennial coins, but I don't really see them as being any different.
The OGP clearly indicates that the 2016 gold Winged Liberty coin is a centennial piece:
The Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985 authorizes the Secretary to determine the coin designs, with limitations on the 50 dollar gold coin. Selecting a pilgrim design does appear to fit with the wording of the law. Perhaps a lawsuit would need to be brought to have the courts determine their interpretation of the law?
31 U.S.C. §5112(i)(4)(C) The authority to Mint gold and silver.
§5112(i)(4)(C) The Secretary may continue to mint and issue coins in accordance with the specifications contained in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) and paragraph (1)(A) of this subsection at the same time the Secretary in minting and issuing other bullion and proof gold coins under this subsection in accordance with such program procedures and coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.
The following is 31 U.S.C. §5112(a) to (i):
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
(b) The half dollar, quarter dollar, and dime coins are clad coins with 3 layers of metal. The 2 identical outer layers are an alloy of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel. The inner layer is copper. The outer layers are metallurgically bonded to the inner layer and weigh at least 30 percent of the weight of the coin. The dollar coin shall be golden in color, have a distinctive edge, have tactile and visual features that make the denomination of the coin readily discernible, be minted and fabricated in the United States, and have similar metallic, anti-counterfeiting properties as United States coinage in circulation on the date of enactment of the United States $1 Coin Act of 1997. The 5-cent coin is an alloy of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel. In minting 5-cent coins, the Secretary shall use bars that vary not more than 2.5 percent from the percent of nickel required. Except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, the one-cent coin is an alloy of 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc. In minting gold coins, the Secretary shall use alloys that vary not more than 0.1 percent from the percent of gold required. The specifications for alloys are by weight.
(c) The Secretary may prescribe the weight and the composition of copper and zinc in the alloy of the one-cent coin that the Secretary decides are appropriate when the Secretary decides that a different weight and alloy of copper and zinc are necessary to ensure an adequate supply of one-cent coins to meet the needs of the United States.
(d)
(1) United States coins shall have the inscription “In God We Trust”. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription “Liberty”. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions “United States of America” and “E Pluribus Unum” and a designation of the value of the coin. The design on the reverse side of the dollar, half dollar, and quarter dollar is an eagle. Subject to other provisions of this subsection, the obverse of any 5-cent coin issued after December 31, 2005, shall bear the likeness of Thomas Jefferson and the reverse of any such 5-cent coin shall bear an image of the home of Thomas Jefferson at Monticello. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Congress, shall select appropriate designs for the obverse and reverse sides of the dollar coin. The coins have an inscription of the year of minting or issuance. However, to prevent or alleviate a shortage of a denomination, the Secretary may inscribe coins of the denomination with the year that was last inscribed on coins of the denomination.
(2) The Secretary shall prepare the devices, models, hubs, and dies for coins, emblems, devices, inscriptions, and designs authorized under this chapter. The Secretary may, after consulting with the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and the Commission of Fine Arts, adopt and prepare new designs or models of emblems or devices that are authorized in the same way as when new coins or devices are authorized. The Secretary may change the design or die of a coin only once within 25 years of the first adoption of the design, model, hub, or die for that coin. The Secretary may procure services under section 3109 of title 5 in carrying out this paragraph.
(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(3) have a design—
(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and
(5) have reeded edges.
(f) Silver Coins.—
(1)Sale price.—
The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under subsection (e) to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).
(2)Bulk sales.—
The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under subsection (e) at a reasonable discount.
(3)Numismatic items.—
For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(g) For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender as provided in section 5103 of this title.
(i)
(1) Notwithstanding section 5111(a)(1) of this title, the Secretary shall mint and issue the gold coins described in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) of this section, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, and such gold coins shall—
(A) have a design determined by the Secretary, except that the fifty dollar gold coin shall have—
(i) on the obverse side, a design symbolic of Liberty; and
(ii) on the reverse side, a design representing a family of eagles, with the male carrying an olive branch and flying above a nest containing a female eagle and hatchlings;
(B) have inscriptions of the denomination, the weight of the fine gold content, the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, and “E Pluribus Unum”; and
(C) have reeded edges.
(2)
(A) The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under this subsection to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).
(B) The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under this subsection at a reasonable discount.
(3) For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(4)
(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of law and subject to subparagraph (B), the Secretary of the Treasury may change the diameter, weight, or design of any coin minted under this subsection or the fineness of the gold in the alloy of any such coin if the Secretary determines that the specific diameter, weight, design, or fineness of gold which differs from that otherwise required by law is appropriate for such coin.
(B) The Secretary may not mint any coin with respect to which a determination has been made by the Secretary under subparagraph (A) before the end of the 30-day period beginning on the date a notice of such determination is published in the Federal Register.
(C) The Secretary may continue to mint and issue coins in accordance with the specifications contained in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) and paragraph (1)(A) of this subsection at the same time the Secretary in minting and issuing other bullion and proof gold coins under this subsection in accordance with such program procedures and coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.
Maybe they should mint a commemorative medal rather than a coin. Did the 9/11 medals require Congressional approval?
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Is there any reason to not do a coin? The Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985 quoted above seems to give the Secretary of the Treasury discretion in designs for bullion coins.
Incorrect. Please read the coinage laws for the US Mint. They have no authority to do so.
They do have the authority to issue medals and gold coins with only SecTreas approval, but saying they're going the way of Perth or RCM is nonsense.
The plan is for a silver medal AND a gold coin as stated in the article, https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2019/04/us-mint-issuing-gold-and-silver-for-mayflower400th.html
“To recognize the 400th anniversary in 2020 of the landing by Pilgrims aboard the Mayflower at Plymouth Rock in 1620 and the settlement of Plymouth Colony, the U.S. Mint plans to issue a gold $10 coin and silver medal, under special congressional authority granted to the Treasury secretary.”
It is clear that the authority to do so exists. I am not clear why it is causing such debate. It appears that since it will 'commemorate' an event, some think it falls under commemorative coinage - technically, it probably would. However, since the law allows such an action in one instance, and not in another (due to item appellation), it clearly is a legal distinction and conflict. Probably not worth addressing, and really a tempest in a teapot. Cheers, RickO
They have my permission.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
He has every right and the law is on his side to order the issue of this coin.
Congress will come up with some other poor choice for a commemorative series instead. See what sells more.
Everybody is allowed to write an option, some will agree and some will not agree, that is the way things work in this country or the way things used to work.
This is an interesting perspective.
The new Mint Director is taking an active role - we will see how it plays out. We'll either like what he does or we won't, but he deserves a chance to show us if he has a better approach than Congress. The coin programs that do pass have often been ill-advised and impractical, placing unnecessary and unwanted coinage burdens on the mint and its customers.
Personally, I am tired of the generic commemorative coin program - three coins, each in two different finishes - two clad halfs, two silver dollars, two gold coins. How about tailoring each program to the event. The Apollo coin program was a little different with the 5 ounce, but in any case I'd like to see some other ideas, such as (just) commemorative half dollars, etc.
At the rate things are going this concept will be something you can tell your grandchildren about when you reminisce about the "good old days".
Don’t get me wrong. The Mint absolutely needs to obey the law, just as we are expected to do. But our nation’s coinage has had all it needs of congressional egomaniacs mandating coins all the way down to the specific design. We don’t need these coins and it’s a waste of OUR money to produce them.
I'm a fan of this. It's good to shake things up a bit.