@perkdog said:
The ‘07 Giants had a great team and yea it was awful losing it but what really annoyed me more was them losing it in 2011. Either way Eli has the Pats number, cant dispute that. I will say that Im still suprised the Pats never won it with Welker, he was a great receiver although nothing compared to Edelman and even Amendola come playoff time.
Had Welker caught that pass in the 2011 SB it would have been over. I will say it was not a perfectly thrown ball, but he could have come up with it.
Eh I don’t really define one play as the outcome but that was a big one but I totally think that’s on Brady
@erikthredd said:
In that case I better update my resume after calling in once to talk sports over 17 years ago. #worksinlocalmedia
You were as I stated "part of" as you are here at CU. It's mass media, mass communication, or whatever anyone wishes to call it.
In fact, a number of those who work in talk radio, and get paid by talk radio, started by calling in to radio talk shows. One of the most popular radio talk show hosts ever in Philly, got his start by calling in to the local talk radio station numerous times, expressed his views, and they wound up hiring him.
If chatting on talk radio is an interesting endeavor that a prospective employer may like, such as a sales position or whatever, putting that on your resume may actually be beneficial.
@perkdog said:
Steve, stop with all this nonsense about Pats fans being “Crybaby’s” you sound ridiculous, all teams have their fair share of good and bad fans. I know you love to spin your fanatical “Pat fans bashing Bellichik” ( Thats your speciality) but none of us do it to the level that you promote us to and that’s a fact. And as far as you categorizing some fans that call into sports radio as Pats fans in general is one of the most ridiculous things you have posted yet. You love Bellichik we get it, I don’t blame you since he helped you guys win that Super Bowl by benching Butler so that’s understandable. But now your claiming that when a Pats fan says anything negative about anything we are “Crybaby’s” ALL OF US but if a Philly Fan says anything negative then they are just “Complainers” ? LOL you are clearly so far off base you are living in a fantasy world. Seriously Steve what a bunch of eye rolling nonsense.
Paul if Philly would have had a NFL coach with Belichick's remarkable success, they might have made him mayor by now.
Please don't try to deny that Bostons fans are crybabies, when we all know that they are. It is fact.
I almost can't wait until Belichick retires, and the Patriots return to mediocrity. The Boston fans on here will be using the crying emoji on almost every post they make about the Patriots, longing for the good old days. 🤣
Let's tell it like it is. Boston sports fans cried for decade after decade after decade about the curse of the Bambino. IE getting rid of the GOAT Babe Ruth.
That's all Boston ever talked about constantly. Then when the curse was finally lifted, and the Patriots dynasty began as well, the crybaby mentality was so ingrained into the Boston population that it became part of their personalities.
To a Boston sports fan, a day without crying about something with the Patriots or the Red Sox, whether it's deserved or not, is like a day without sunshine.
Here's what I see, as a brown's fan and a football fan in general.
The browns still have work to do on the roster regardless of OBJ being there. They have holes on the defense and need some depth throughout. Dorsey has done a good job until now with building the team but there is more work to do. If they only win 7 or 8 it can't all be attributed to the offense.
I believe Baker, with Landry and the coaching staff, will help rope OBJ in. He can only help the offense as it opens it up for the rest of the weapons. Cleveland fans don't care how he acts at this point. If they are winning that's what we care about. it's been a while since the Browns were a consistent winner and that's expected now. Cleveland is a football town, thank you Lebron for the ring, but back to football.
I see what the Giants are doing and also believe Eli is a year away from retiring. If they draft a top QB (Haskins) and WR (Metcalf) and fill gaps on the D they can help to accelerate the rebuild because yes that's what this is a rebuild. They have worked on the OL and have one of the best backs in the league. For all the crap Gettleman has gotten for this deal a very good draft will help rectify that.
one point, since the Patriots are on top of the NFL(have been for a while) there are legions of fair-weather fans who will do and say stupid things. they will vanish when the Patriots Dynasty fades, so don't pay them too much attention. I have been through that with the Dallas Cowboys, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Green Bay Packers and the Atlanta Braves among some other minor displays.
when Teams are on top, fans who don't really know the sport come out of the woodwork and say really stupid things.
@keets said:
one point, since the Patriots are on top of the NFL(have been for a while) there are legions of fair-weather fans who will do and say stupid things. they will vanish when the Patriots Dynasty fades, so don't pay them too much attention. I have been through that with the Dallas Cowboys, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Green Bay Packers and the Atlanta Braves among some other minor displays.
when Teams are on top, fans who don't really know the sport come out of the woodwork and say really stupid things.
Keets, I sincerely hope your not insinuating that I’m a fair weather fan. Not saying you are pointing at me but I gotta check...I been a Pats fan since the Grogan day’s, I’m actually looking forward to just relaxing while watching the Pats post Brady believe it or not. I’m being 100% truthful here when I say that there is a certain amount of “Stress” being a Pats fan, I feel that the pressure is always on with Brady leading the team to the playoffs and not winning it now. Sincerely the most stressful thing for me in Sports is watching the Pats in the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl. Sure I enjoy it but it is stressful, all their Super Bowls have been a Street fight and having knots in my stomach throughout the playoffs takes a toll 😂. I’m not joking either!
@stevek said:
Let's tell it like it is. Boston sports fans cried for decade after decade after decade about the curse of the Bambino. IE getting rid of the GOAT Babe Ruth.
That's all Boston ever talked about constantly. Then when the curse was finally lifted, and the Patriots dynasty began as well, the crybaby mentality was so ingrained into the Boston population that it became part of their personalities.
To a Boston sports fan, a day without crying about something with the Patriots or the Red Sox, whether it's deserved or not, is like a day without sunshine.
🌞
We were pathetic for DECADES Steve. Pathetic! Give us a little break! I mean Cmon! We were tortured for so long with the Sox let alone how awful the Pats were before Brady. 2001 Pats and 2004 Sox were literally the biggest moments in our sporting history. We had every right to complain or cry before that, especially with the Sox, I mean 1975, 1986 and 2003 were brutally painful. The Pats never had a chance in ‘85 and had a small chance in ‘96. We been greedy a few times since then but the majority of us haven’t been crying trust me.
@stevek said:
Let's tell it like it is. Boston sports fans cried for decade after decade after decade about the curse of the Bambino. IE getting rid of the GOAT Babe Ruth.
That's all Boston ever talked about constantly. Then when the curse was finally lifted, and the Patriots dynasty began as well, the crybaby mentality was so ingrained into the Boston population that it became part of their personalities.
To a Boston sports fan, a day without crying about something with the Patriots or the Red Sox, whether it's deserved or not, is like a day without sunshine.
🌞
We were pathetic for DECADES Steve. Pathetic! Give us a little break! I mean Cmon! We were tortured for so long with the Sox let alone how awful the Pats were before Brady. 2001 Pats and 2004 Sox were literally the biggest moments in our sporting history. We had every right to complain or cry before that, especially with the Sox, I mean 1975, 1986 and 2003 were brutally painful. The Pats never had a chance in ‘85 and had a small chance in ‘96. We been greedy a few times since then but the majority of us haven’t been crying trust me.
You did have those great Celtics teams way before all that, but for me I don't care that much about basketball.
I'm just busting stones a bit on a slow Tuesday, you know i like Boston fans, they are among the best. You guys are on top of the world now with football and baseball, and my hats off to ya. 🎩
@stevek said:
Let's tell it like it is. Boston sports fans cried for decade after decade after decade about the curse of the Bambino. IE getting rid of the GOAT Babe Ruth.
That's all Boston ever talked about constantly. Then when the curse was finally lifted, and the Patriots dynasty began as well, the crybaby mentality was so ingrained into the Boston population that it became part of their personalities.
To a Boston sports fan, a day without crying about something with the Patriots or the Red Sox, whether it's deserved or not, is like a day without sunshine.
🌞
We were pathetic for DECADES Steve. Pathetic! Give us a little break! I mean Cmon! We were tortured for so long with the Sox let alone how awful the Pats were before Brady. 2001 Pats and 2004 Sox were literally the biggest moments in our sporting history. We had every right to complain or cry before that, especially with the Sox, I mean 1975, 1986 and 2003 were brutally painful. The Pats never had a chance in ‘85 and had a small chance in ‘96. We been greedy a few times since then but the majority of us haven’t been crying trust me.
You did have those great Celtics teams way before all that, but for me I don't care that much about basketball.
t
I'm just busting stones a bit on a slow Tuesday, you know i like Boston fans, they are among the best. You guys are on top of the world now with football and baseball, and my hats off to ya. 🎩
I figured your response was going to be “No quarter given” 😂. It’s all good, it is a slow Tuesday. I’m not a basketball or hockey fan, it’s Pats and Red Sox for me. Nice 🎩 emoji btw 👍🍻
I am NOT a stat guy, partially for the reasons I think this example beautifully illustrates, but for people who are maybe rethink either how much you believe in stats or how done Eli Manning is as it's hard to have it both ways, maybe? )
2019 NFL Regular Season
Attempts per game
Eli - 36
Tom - 35.5
Completion Percentage
Eli - 66
Brady - 65.8
Yards
Eli - 4299
Brady - 4355
TDs
Eli - 21
Brady - 29
Interceptions
Eli - 11
Brady - 11
QB Rating (NFL.com)
Eli 92.4
Brady 97.7
Sacks
Eli - 47
Brady - 21
Just in case this got lost in the shuffle, here it is again. I am curious as to why it has not generated any commentary for or against. I’m going to add some for.
I think Eli still has it; and I’ll be the first to admit that he’s never had ‘it’ all. But I do think the above comparison is fair in that Tom Brady isn’t some athletic marvel, either. (Please don’t jump down my throat, Pats fans, for the comparison? I just mean that neither guy is Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Big Ben (younger) or any other QB who could break runs for gains and had the speed and it power to make it a legitimate threat.) I saw some flashes of it last year in the games where Eli was afforded any decent protection. And plenty of good two minute march down the field moments. Again, I’m not someone who thinks Eli Manning is the greatest QB of all time (though a no doubt Hall of Famer, I believe he is) but the last GM, Jerry Reese, went off the path of winning when he started spending all the early picks on skill players instead of beefy linemen for both sides of the ball. The result is a bad football team with some star players. I look at the list of guys charged with protecting Eli the last 5 years and can’t find them playing anywhere for anybody in the NFL in any significant way. You can’t tell me it’s all Eli when if you watched the Giants over that span, they could never run the ball either and what makes what Saquon Barkley did so special last year was how often he had to make people miss in the backfield (first 8 games it was almost ridiculous) before even having a chance to run for a gain. I honestly don’t know if ANY QB would have been successful under these conditions - maybe a Russel Wilson could squeeze out a few extra wins but a few extra wins wouldn’t be all that many wins. And every Giant fan I know would prefer a winning record and fewer stars.
Despite the grief given him in NY by the media (who he makes no time for - think that’s related?), he has in basically one calendar year since taking the job added Nate Solder, Kevin Zeitler and Wil Hernandez. While there’s no doubt that Solder and Zeitler are overpaid, they are also very much NFL caliber lineman which could not be said of any of the guys blocking for five years. I think Wil Hernandez is going to be an excellent player very soon and he had a very solid rookie campaign, making the NFL’s all rookie team. That leaves two spots that could be filled by the guys they found last year over the course of the season who actually did an appreciably better job (Chad Wheeler, Jamon Brown, Spencer Pulley) than the leftover muts from the Reese administration. And we still have the draft and further free agency to potentially improve that line, too, but what I like most of all was the GM just keep bringing guys in and cutting them if they sucked; rather refreshing that we didn’t just trot out the same garbage on the O-line like we did for FIVE YEARS! The defense has some talent but will certainly need even more help. But again, I already have confidence in our GM from the picks he made last year (Barkley, Hernandez, BJ Hill and Lorenzo Carter all looked like future pieces), the trades he made last year and this offseason, the team he built in Carolina and lastly I credit Dave Gettleman for setting this draft board of picks up all within the last year:
SO, coming into this season which I think is Eli’s last, we’ll have a credible line and a young defense with almost no distractions by comparison. The Redskins, Cowboys and Eagles were all largely unimpressive last year and so hope springs eternal. I repeat, I think Eli has something left and I think you’re all going to be reminded one more time in 2019that this guy is Canton bound.
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Tim those stats you posted are surprising, I dint think they were that close last year. Let me say this, stats like that will get lost in the shuffle for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is inconsistency, Eli will come out and have a great game or two then throw up a stinker and look like he can’t beat the Akron Zips. The Giants didn’t make the playoffs, Saquon Barkley and talk of finding the heir to Eli all overshadowed a statistically decent year from him in my opinion.
@perkdog said:
Tim those stats you posted are surprising, I dint think they were that close last year. Let me say this, stats like that will get lost in the shuffle for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is inconsistency, Eli will come out and have a great game or two then throw up a stinker and look like he can’t beat the Akron Zips. The Giants didn’t make the playoffs, Saquon Barkley and talk of finding the heir to Eli all overshadowed a statistically decent year from him in my opinion.
I would say only this - stats are very misleading most of the time. The simple fact is that what killed the Giants last year was they couldn’t score in the red zone and they couldn’t hold a lead. The former improved dramatically in the second half of the season due to two main reasons - the quality of players on the line improved as every guy from the prior season was removed piece by piece. Second, and of equal importance, is the team’s we played in the second half were mostly of lower quality which made our modest improvements seem even more impressive. So the improvements over the second half are not fools gold but also not entirely legitimate, either.
The defense not being able to hold a lead is more forgivable because pieces were traded (Eli Apple and Snacks Harrison) off and young players were being pressed to greater service. There is some talent there but much more is needed for the defense to be any better than average.
Paul, here’s the deal - nobody likes Eli Manning except Giants fans. It’s partly because of his last name, partly because of his draft day antics and partly because he proved many people wrong. Twice. When NFL players vote on overrated, he’s always near the top. People have long tried to shovel dirt on his career and it was loudest in the offseasons after 2006, 2010 and probably this one, respectively. And yet, I would say that he’s showed incredible class and poise not often seen with athletes these days. Eli never was and never will be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers with 50 TDS and 5 picks talent. He makes mistakes - sometimes really dumb ones. But there’s also no one I would rather have in a 2 minute drill ahead of him - though there are guys ‘as good.’ He’ll have a terrible 4 pick game once a year. BUT, he can also throw 4 perfect playoff games in a row. On the road. Not many have done that. Even fewer have done it twice. And for those who forgot or don’t know, Eli was in fact awesome in every game of both Super Bowl runs.
Fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me twice? Shame on me.
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Tim, I hate Eli and the Giants as I’m sure can understand but both were and still are the last player or team I want the Pats to ever face in the Super Bowl and I definitely respect him as a QB. Eli got it done, twice nobody can argue that and he will make the HOF regardless if you ask me. I do think your forgetting that the Giants Super Bowl wins under Eli also has some extreme luck on their side, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing as nobody was luckier than Brady a few times. I’d take Brady over anyone in a 2 minute drill, I’m suprised you would take Eli over anyone else but hey he is your guy and I respect that.
@perkdog said:
Tim, I hate Eli and the Giants as I’m sure can understand but both were and still are the last player or team I want the Pats to ever face in the Super Bowl and I definitely respect him as a QB. Eli got it done, twice nobody can argue that and he will make the HOF regardless if you ask me. I do think your forgetting that the Giants Super Bowl wins under Eli also has some extreme luck on their side, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing as nobody was luckier than Brady a few times. I’d take Brady over anyone in a 2 minute drill, I’m suprised you would take Eli over anyone else but hey he is your guy and I respect that.
Paul,
Extreme luck is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder. Guys either make plays or they don’t in football. Some people call the Pats win over the Seahawks lucky. I call it bad coaching by Pete Carroll, not luck. Some people call he whole ‘helmet catch’ play lucky, which really only cheapens the amazing one handed trap catch play made by David Tyree and the strength and pocket presence shown but Eli. Luck is fine, too, but I don’t believe in luck in sports unless we’re talking Andrew. Luck is bitterness in verbal form. Adam Vinatieri isn’t some lucky guy. He’s good at his job.
I acknowledged other guys being ‘as good’, Paul. Your boy obviously is no slouch. My college roommate is a HUGE Patriots and Tom Brady fan. To tweak him, I used to joke - Brady if I need a FG, Eli if I need a TD.’
He didn’t like it, either.
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@perkdog said:
Keets, I sincerely hope your not insinuating that I’m a fair weather fan. Not saying you are pointing at me but I gotta check...I been a Pats fan since the Grogan day’s, I’m actually looking forward to just relaxing while watching the Pats post Brady believe it or not. I’m being 100% truthful here when I say that there is a certain amount of “Stress” being a Pats fan, I feel that the pressure is always on with Brady leading the team to the playoffs and not winning it now. Sincerely the most stressful thing for me in Sports is watching the Pats in the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl. Sure I enjoy it but it is stressful, all their Super Bowls have been a Street fight and having knots in my stomach throughout the playoffs takes a toll 😂. I’m not joking either!
these are true words. I honestly cant enjoy watching a Patriots playoff game. The super bowl, forget about it. I very much enjoy rewatching, but the live action is for the birds. Its just me pacing the floor in front of the TV. personally, I have been trying to appreciate the moments, as I know this will never be recreated. between the Sox and Patriots, it has been an amazing run.
That’s Eli doing to 2 minute drill in current NFL. Brady, Brees, Big Ben and Eli. That’s who I think are the best right now and I’d pick Eli but not fault any choice there.
All time, give me Joe Montana.
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Tim I agree with pretty much all your points, however I do think luck goes both ways and also at the end of the game the score is what counts, teams either get it done or they don’t. I will still say Brady is my guy in any scenario but we all have our own guys, Montana certainly is a solid choice. 🍻
@perkdog said:
Tim I agree with pretty much all your points, however I do think luck goes both ways and also at the end of the game the score is what counts, teams either get it done or they don’t. I will still say Brady is my guy in any scenario but we all have our own guys, Montana certainly is a solid choice. 🍻
I was always a Montana guy, but it has become more and more difficult to deny Brady's ability to play at such a high level for such a long time.
It is still too much of a team game to really know.
What if Dan Fouts or Kurt Warner or even Fran Tarkenton had played on either the 49ers or the Patriots?
We will never know.
A lot has to do with being in an organization and with a coach that are also great.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I’ll just say, finally, that sports is about as much about coaching and matchups as it is about talent. The Patriot dynasty has been so amazing in part because the coach tailors the plan to his personnel better than anyone has ever done. So as the team changes, the Pats do. Defensive and offensive styles, packages and plays. Obviously having the (2nd) GOAT at QB for 20 years is of equal (my opinion, greater) import as he has rolled with the changes, subverted his ego, taken less money and is the actual guy on the field playing the game, making the throws and setting the tone.
I mention all this mainly because the Giants beat the Patriots for this exact reason. Matchups and great coaching. With the collection of talent on the defensive line all healthy (Strahan, young Osi, baby Tuck then Osi, young Tuck, baby JPP) we were perfectly suited to beat that team and nearly ended the quest perfection at the end of the regular season. To this day, Tom Coughlin cites the decision to play you guys all out in the regular season as the catalyst for the run. And let’s be honest here - Tom Coughlin is one of the all time great coaches and outright MEN in the history of football. Player, coach, GM. Syracuse, Rochester Institute of Technology, Green Bay Packers, Philadelphia Eagles, Jacksonville Jaguars, Boston College, New York Giants. So please, don’t diminish the accomplishments with the word luck when it was perpetrated twice by the same team with the same plan achieving the same outcome. Chance always favors the prepared mind. Tom out coached the ole genius Bill twice. They Patriots played well in both games, too. So, I’ll happily concede the title of ‘better team’ or ‘more talented team’ to the Patriots, by the way. In both cases.
But you were beaten by good coaching and better execution, not luck.
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Asante Samuel’s failed interception wasn’t luck just like Malcolm Butler’s successful interception wasn’t luck. One guy didn’t make a play and the other did. Plaxico caught his wide open game icing catch and Wes Welker dropped his.
I don’t think it’s luck; you succeed or you fail.
If it’s bad enough it can drive a Finkle to become an Einhorn!
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Lastly, thank you again for weighing into the thread and sorry for the salt in the wound.
Feel free to call me in the next time you want a Yankee fan to weigh in on 2004. I owe you that much, at least!
😂 it’s all good, those old wounds have somewhat healed after the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl wins, we shouldn’t have ended up winning those games realistically but we did so 2 cherrys for 2 Sour Grapes. I put myself in the kitchen here so I can certainly handle the heat 👍. It’s slways a pleasure Tim, your a well spoken CU member 🍻
I really don’t get it; you go out and beat what is perhaps the most impressive football dynasty twice in its prime and you get NO LOVE! I can see it and to a certain degree, I understand it with Eli.
But Tom Coughlin! No sir! I cannot stand for it so that’s it I AM SITTING DOWN!
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I think that the longevity argument that is made for modern Quarterbacks is in large part to post 2000 rule changes. I am sure that Montana, elway, marino etc would have played for not only more years, but better in their later years had they not taken so many very hard hits. those take a toll. I also have no doubt that Brady would not be an elite starting quarterback at age 41 had he played his entire career during the 70ś-90ś. the human body can only take so much.
Craig, the training and medical treatments these guys receive have a lot to do with it too, I think more so than the QB protection rules or at least just as much.
Well, Eli got benched, OBJ sucked and both the Giants and Browns had really bad seasons. Much of the speculation is now fact or fiction but I always enjoy going back and eating some large slices of humble pie with a small side of whatever I got right.
I originally came to this thread to warn others of OBJ. It was almost the perfect typical Odell season. He was hurt, he made some great catches, he said he wasn’t sure if he was happy and maybe wants a trade and possibly hasn’t clicked with his QB. He didn’t win and he disappointed more than he impressed.
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@1951WheatiesPremium - I agree with your view on luck and winning. I have always said if you play bad you lose and if you play good you usually win. Luck can go either way...….usually you make your own luck. I'm glad to see you added Johnson and Aikman to your list of Coach/QB's that did good. I feel that if Jerry had STFU and not drove Johnson off we would have some more SB Trophy's. But that's water under the bridge. I fear that as long as the Jones' family own's the Cowboys we are in trouble no matter what happens with the current coaches. JMHO.
As a Giants fan, I don’t really care for the Cowboys. I really hate Emmitt Smith because he seemed to save his best performance for us. And we were pretty bad during that great Cowboy run.
As a casual observer, I get blaming Garrett but your problem has been the QB; Romo is like Eli’s opposite. Great in the regular season and mostly average in the postseason. Dak just sucks. People confuse athleticism with ability all the time these days. Give me the guy who has it between the ears every time. Great players have a sense of the flow of a game and know how to impart their will at the right time. And it transcends all sports. You have to prepare to win and know how you’re going to win.
Think of Ali; he might knock him out, out punch him, out last him, out score him. But there was a way to win and he was going to find it.
How many people forget how many series clinching shots were not made by Jordan? Kerr, Paxson, Etc. He gets all the credit as if his pass made the shot go in. (It probably did)
Jimmie Johnson and Troy Aikman were great but they had their finger in the pulse. They knew when 10-7 meant grind out a 17-10
Win and when it meant go for the throat and be up 30-10 and take the game, too.
Special teams.
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Comments
Eh I don’t really define one play as the outcome but that was a big one but I totally think that’s on Brady
You were as I stated "part of" as you are here at CU. It's mass media, mass communication, or whatever anyone wishes to call it.
In fact, a number of those who work in talk radio, and get paid by talk radio, started by calling in to radio talk shows. One of the most popular radio talk show hosts ever in Philly, got his start by calling in to the local talk radio station numerous times, expressed his views, and they wound up hiring him.
If chatting on talk radio is an interesting endeavor that a prospective employer may like, such as a sales position or whatever, putting that on your resume may actually be beneficial.
Paul if Philly would have had a NFL coach with Belichick's remarkable success, they might have made him mayor by now.
Please don't try to deny that Bostons fans are crybabies, when we all know that they are. It is fact.
I almost can't wait until Belichick retires, and the Patriots return to mediocrity. The Boston fans on here will be using the crying emoji on almost every post they make about the Patriots, longing for the good old days. 🤣
Let's tell it like it is. Boston sports fans cried for decade after decade after decade about the curse of the Bambino. IE getting rid of the GOAT Babe Ruth.
That's all Boston ever talked about constantly. Then when the curse was finally lifted, and the Patriots dynasty began as well, the crybaby mentality was so ingrained into the Boston population that it became part of their personalities.
To a Boston sports fan, a day without crying about something with the Patriots or the Red Sox, whether it's deserved or not, is like a day without sunshine.
🌞
Speaking of emojis 🐴💩🐴💩🐴💩🐴💩🐴💩🐴💩
Eric
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Here's what I see, as a brown's fan and a football fan in general.
The browns still have work to do on the roster regardless of OBJ being there. They have holes on the defense and need some depth throughout. Dorsey has done a good job until now with building the team but there is more work to do. If they only win 7 or 8 it can't all be attributed to the offense.
I believe Baker, with Landry and the coaching staff, will help rope OBJ in. He can only help the offense as it opens it up for the rest of the weapons. Cleveland fans don't care how he acts at this point. If they are winning that's what we care about. it's been a while since the Browns were a consistent winner and that's expected now. Cleveland is a football town, thank you Lebron for the ring, but back to football.
I see what the Giants are doing and also believe Eli is a year away from retiring. If they draft a top QB (Haskins) and WR (Metcalf) and fill gaps on the D they can help to accelerate the rebuild because yes that's what this is a rebuild. They have worked on the OL and have one of the best backs in the league. For all the crap Gettleman has gotten for this deal a very good draft will help rectify that.
one point, since the Patriots are on top of the NFL(have been for a while) there are legions of fair-weather fans who will do and say stupid things. they will vanish when the Patriots Dynasty fades, so don't pay them too much attention. I have been through that with the Dallas Cowboys, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Green Bay Packers and the Atlanta Braves among some other minor displays.
when Teams are on top, fans who don't really know the sport come out of the woodwork and say really stupid things.
And they don't appreciate it until it's gone.
But perhaps that's just human nature to a degree.
Keets, I sincerely hope your not insinuating that I’m a fair weather fan. Not saying you are pointing at me but I gotta check...I been a Pats fan since the Grogan day’s, I’m actually looking forward to just relaxing while watching the Pats post Brady believe it or not. I’m being 100% truthful here when I say that there is a certain amount of “Stress” being a Pats fan, I feel that the pressure is always on with Brady leading the team to the playoffs and not winning it now. Sincerely the most stressful thing for me in Sports is watching the Pats in the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl. Sure I enjoy it but it is stressful, all their Super Bowls have been a Street fight and having knots in my stomach throughout the playoffs takes a toll 😂. I’m not joking either!
And who signed him?
Some guy named Bill i think.
We were pathetic for DECADES Steve. Pathetic! Give us a little break! I mean Cmon! We were tortured for so long with the Sox let alone how awful the Pats were before Brady. 2001 Pats and 2004 Sox were literally the biggest moments in our sporting history. We had every right to complain or cry before that, especially with the Sox, I mean 1975, 1986 and 2003 were brutally painful. The Pats never had a chance in ‘85 and had a small chance in ‘96. We been greedy a few times since then but the majority of us haven’t been crying trust me.
You did have those great Celtics teams way before all that, but for me I don't care that much about basketball.
I'm just busting stones a bit on a slow Tuesday, you know i like Boston fans, they are among the best. You guys are on top of the world now with football and baseball, and my hats off to ya. 🎩
I figured your response was going to be “No quarter given” 😂. It’s all good, it is a slow Tuesday. I’m not a basketball or hockey fan, it’s Pats and Red Sox for me. Nice 🎩 emoji btw 👍🍻
I am NOT a stat guy, partially for the reasons I think this example beautifully illustrates, but for people who are maybe rethink either how much you believe in stats or how done Eli Manning is as it's hard to have it both ways, maybe?
)
2019 NFL Regular Season
Attempts per game
Eli - 36
Tom - 35.5
Completion Percentage
Eli - 66
Brady - 65.8
Yards
Eli - 4299
Brady - 4355
TDs
Eli - 21
Brady - 29
Interceptions
Eli - 11
Brady - 11
QB Rating (NFL.com)
Eli 92.4
Brady 97.7
Sacks
Eli - 47
Brady - 21
Just in case this got lost in the shuffle, here it is again. I am curious as to why it has not generated any commentary for or against. I’m going to add some for.
I think Eli still has it; and I’ll be the first to admit that he’s never had ‘it’ all. But I do think the above comparison is fair in that Tom Brady isn’t some athletic marvel, either. (Please don’t jump down my throat, Pats fans, for the comparison? I just mean that neither guy is Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Big Ben (younger) or any other QB who could break runs for gains and had the speed and it power to make it a legitimate threat.) I saw some flashes of it last year in the games where Eli was afforded any decent protection. And plenty of good two minute march down the field moments. Again, I’m not someone who thinks Eli Manning is the greatest QB of all time (though a no doubt Hall of Famer, I believe he is) but the last GM, Jerry Reese, went off the path of winning when he started spending all the early picks on skill players instead of beefy linemen for both sides of the ball. The result is a bad football team with some star players. I look at the list of guys charged with protecting Eli the last 5 years and can’t find them playing anywhere for anybody in the NFL in any significant way. You can’t tell me it’s all Eli when if you watched the Giants over that span, they could never run the ball either and what makes what Saquon Barkley did so special last year was how often he had to make people miss in the backfield (first 8 games it was almost ridiculous) before even having a chance to run for a gain. I honestly don’t know if ANY QB would have been successful under these conditions - maybe a Russel Wilson could squeeze out a few extra wins but a few extra wins wouldn’t be all that many wins. And every Giant fan I know would prefer a winning record and fewer stars.
Despite the grief given him in NY by the media (who he makes no time for - think that’s related?), he has in basically one calendar year since taking the job added Nate Solder, Kevin Zeitler and Wil Hernandez. While there’s no doubt that Solder and Zeitler are overpaid, they are also very much NFL caliber lineman which could not be said of any of the guys blocking for five years. I think Wil Hernandez is going to be an excellent player very soon and he had a very solid rookie campaign, making the NFL’s all rookie team. That leaves two spots that could be filled by the guys they found last year over the course of the season who actually did an appreciably better job (Chad Wheeler, Jamon Brown, Spencer Pulley) than the leftover muts from the Reese administration. And we still have the draft and further free agency to potentially improve that line, too, but what I like most of all was the GM just keep bringing guys in and cutting them if they sucked; rather refreshing that we didn’t just trot out the same garbage on the O-line like we did for FIVE YEARS! The defense has some talent but will certainly need even more help. But again, I already have confidence in our GM from the picks he made last year (Barkley, Hernandez, BJ Hill and Lorenzo Carter all looked like future pieces), the trades he made last year and this offseason, the team he built in Carolina and lastly I credit Dave Gettleman for setting this draft board of picks up all within the last year:
No. 6 overall (Round 1)
No 17 overall (Round 1)
No. 37 overall (Round 2)
No. 95 overall (Round 3)
No. 108 overall (Round 4)
No. 132 overall (Round 4)
No. 142 overall (Round 5)
No. 143 overall (Round 5)
No. 171 overall (Round 5)
No. 180 overall (Round 6)
No. 232 overall (Round 7)
No. 245 overall (Round 7)
SO, coming into this season which I think is Eli’s last, we’ll have a credible line and a young defense with almost no distractions by comparison. The Redskins, Cowboys and Eagles were all largely unimpressive last year and so hope springs eternal. I repeat, I think Eli has something left and I think you’re all going to be reminded one more time in 2019that this guy is Canton bound.
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Tim those stats you posted are surprising, I dint think they were that close last year. Let me say this, stats like that will get lost in the shuffle for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is inconsistency, Eli will come out and have a great game or two then throw up a stinker and look like he can’t beat the Akron Zips. The Giants didn’t make the playoffs, Saquon Barkley and talk of finding the heir to Eli all overshadowed a statistically decent year from him in my opinion.
I would say only this - stats are very misleading most of the time. The simple fact is that what killed the Giants last year was they couldn’t score in the red zone and they couldn’t hold a lead. The former improved dramatically in the second half of the season due to two main reasons - the quality of players on the line improved as every guy from the prior season was removed piece by piece. Second, and of equal importance, is the team’s we played in the second half were mostly of lower quality which made our modest improvements seem even more impressive. So the improvements over the second half are not fools gold but also not entirely legitimate, either.
The defense not being able to hold a lead is more forgivable because pieces were traded (Eli Apple and Snacks Harrison) off and young players were being pressed to greater service. There is some talent there but much more is needed for the defense to be any better than average.
Paul, here’s the deal - nobody likes Eli Manning except Giants fans. It’s partly because of his last name, partly because of his draft day antics and partly because he proved many people wrong. Twice. When NFL players vote on overrated, he’s always near the top. People have long tried to shovel dirt on his career and it was loudest in the offseasons after 2006, 2010 and probably this one, respectively. And yet, I would say that he’s showed incredible class and poise not often seen with athletes these days. Eli never was and never will be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers with 50 TDS and 5 picks talent. He makes mistakes - sometimes really dumb ones. But there’s also no one I would rather have in a 2 minute drill ahead of him - though there are guys ‘as good.’ He’ll have a terrible 4 pick game once a year. BUT, he can also throw 4 perfect playoff games in a row. On the road. Not many have done that. Even fewer have done it twice. And for those who forgot or don’t know, Eli was in fact awesome in every game of both Super Bowl runs.
Fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me twice? Shame on me.
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Tim, I hate Eli and the Giants as I’m sure can understand but both were and still are the last player or team I want the Pats to ever face in the Super Bowl and I definitely respect him as a QB. Eli got it done, twice nobody can argue that and he will make the HOF regardless if you ask me. I do think your forgetting that the Giants Super Bowl wins under Eli also has some extreme luck on their side, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing as nobody was luckier than Brady a few times. I’d take Brady over anyone in a 2 minute drill, I’m suprised you would take Eli over anyone else but hey he is your guy and I respect that.
Paul,
Extreme luck is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder. Guys either make plays or they don’t in football. Some people call the Pats win over the Seahawks lucky. I call it bad coaching by Pete Carroll, not luck. Some people call he whole ‘helmet catch’ play lucky, which really only cheapens the amazing one handed trap catch play made by David Tyree and the strength and pocket presence shown but Eli. Luck is fine, too, but I don’t believe in luck in sports unless we’re talking Andrew. Luck is bitterness in verbal form. Adam Vinatieri isn’t some lucky guy. He’s good at his job.
I acknowledged other guys being ‘as good’, Paul. Your boy obviously is no slouch. My college roommate is a HUGE Patriots and Tom Brady fan. To tweak him, I used to joke - Brady if I need a FG, Eli if I need a TD.’
He didn’t like it, either.
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these are true words. I honestly cant enjoy watching a Patriots playoff game. The super bowl, forget about it. I very much enjoy rewatching, but the live action is for the birds. Its just me pacing the floor in front of the TV. personally, I have been trying to appreciate the moments, as I know this will never be recreated. between the Sox and Patriots, it has been an amazing run.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
@perkdog
That’s Eli doing to 2 minute drill in current NFL. Brady, Brees, Big Ben and Eli. That’s who I think are the best right now and I’d pick Eli but not fault any choice there.
All time, give me Joe Montana.
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Tim I agree with pretty much all your points, however I do think luck goes both ways and also at the end of the game the score is what counts, teams either get it done or they don’t. I will still say Brady is my guy in any scenario but we all have our own guys, Montana certainly is a solid choice. 🍻
I was always a Montana guy, but it has become more and more difficult to deny Brady's ability to play at such a high level for such a long time.
It is still too much of a team game to really know.
What if Dan Fouts or Kurt Warner or even Fran Tarkenton had played on either the 49ers or the Patriots?
We will never know.
A lot has to do with being in an organization and with a coach that are also great.
I’ll just say, finally, that sports is about as much about coaching and matchups as it is about talent. The Patriot dynasty has been so amazing in part because the coach tailors the plan to his personnel better than anyone has ever done. So as the team changes, the Pats do. Defensive and offensive styles, packages and plays. Obviously having the (2nd) GOAT at QB for 20 years is of equal (my opinion, greater) import as he has rolled with the changes, subverted his ego, taken less money and is the actual guy on the field playing the game, making the throws and setting the tone.
I mention all this mainly because the Giants beat the Patriots for this exact reason. Matchups and great coaching. With the collection of talent on the defensive line all healthy (Strahan, young Osi, baby Tuck then Osi, young Tuck, baby JPP) we were perfectly suited to beat that team and nearly ended the quest perfection at the end of the regular season. To this day, Tom Coughlin cites the decision to play you guys all out in the regular season as the catalyst for the run. And let’s be honest here - Tom Coughlin is one of the all time great coaches and outright MEN in the history of football. Player, coach, GM. Syracuse, Rochester Institute of Technology, Green Bay Packers, Philadelphia Eagles, Jacksonville Jaguars, Boston College, New York Giants. So please, don’t diminish the accomplishments with the word luck when it was perpetrated twice by the same team with the same plan achieving the same outcome. Chance always favors the prepared mind. Tom out coached the ole genius Bill twice. They Patriots played well in both games, too. So, I’ll happily concede the title of ‘better team’ or ‘more talented team’ to the Patriots, by the way. In both cases.
But you were beaten by good coaching and better execution, not luck.
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Asante Samuel’s failed interception wasn’t luck just like Malcolm Butler’s successful interception wasn’t luck. One guy didn’t make a play and the other did. Plaxico caught his wide open game icing catch and Wes Welker dropped his.
I don’t think it’s luck; you succeed or you fail.
If it’s bad enough it can drive a Finkle to become an Einhorn!
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@perkdog
Lastly, thank you again for weighing into the thread and sorry for the salt in the wound.
Feel free to call me in the next time you want a Yankee fan to weigh in on 2004. I owe you that much, at least!
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😂 it’s all good, those old wounds have somewhat healed after the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl wins, we shouldn’t have ended up winning those games realistically but we did so 2 cherrys for 2 Sour Grapes. I put myself in the kitchen here so I can certainly handle the heat 👍. It’s slways a pleasure Tim, your a well spoken CU member 🍻
Just a few coach/quarterback duos that come to mind; (in no particular order)
Lombardi/Starr
Knoll/Bradshaw
Landry/Staubach
Walsh/Montana
Belichick/Brady
Reeves/Elway
Parcels/Simms
Shula/Griese
Levy/Kelly
Tarkenton/Grant
I am thinking that ownership was prolly good during the big years too.
There are prolly a few more, but if memory serves when these duos split up the team's success usually rapidly diminished.
I would also go as far as saying that none of the players OR coaches had much success before or after.
Shula maybe. Montana one year?
Thoughts?
Good list, I really can’t add much to it. When Walsh retired I think Seifert took over and won right away I’m pretty sure.
Yes, one with Montana (first year) and later with Steve Young.
Didn't last very long.
First, if it’s a penny for my thoughts and I choose to put in my two cents, will we attract guys from the coin forum with all the leftovers?
Second, I’d fix it to Shanahan/Elway (since they did the winning) and add glaring omissions of:
Jimmy Johnson/Troy Aikman
...and...
Tom Coughlin/Eli Manning
(Seriously? WTF, @JoeBanzai !&(!4!$(&(!!$ ).
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I really don’t get it; you go out and beat what is perhaps the most impressive football dynasty twice in its prime and you get NO LOVE! I can see it and to a certain degree, I understand it with Eli.
But Tom Coughlin! No sir! I cannot stand for it so that’s it I AM SITTING DOWN!
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wasn't there some rule changes that altered the playing field as far as free agency and salary caps?
yeah those guys are fine too.
I am learning how to post and make sure I get a response! ;-)
I think that the longevity argument that is made for modern Quarterbacks is in large part to post 2000 rule changes. I am sure that Montana, elway, marino etc would have played for not only more years, but better in their later years had they not taken so many very hard hits. those take a toll. I also have no doubt that Brady would not be an elite starting quarterback at age 41 had he played his entire career during the 70ś-90ś. the human body can only take so much.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Craig, the training and medical treatments these guys receive have a lot to do with it too, I think more so than the QB protection rules or at least just as much.
Well, Eli got benched, OBJ sucked and both the Giants and Browns had really bad seasons. Much of the speculation is now fact or fiction but I always enjoy going back and eating some large slices of humble pie with a small side of whatever I got right.
I originally came to this thread to warn others of OBJ. It was almost the perfect typical Odell season. He was hurt, he made some great catches, he said he wasn’t sure if he was happy and maybe wants a trade and possibly hasn’t clicked with his QB. He didn’t win and he disappointed more than he impressed.
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@1951WheatiesPremium - I agree with your view on luck and winning. I have always said if you play bad you lose and if you play good you usually win. Luck can go either way...….usually you make your own luck. I'm glad to see you added Johnson and Aikman to your list of Coach/QB's that did good. I feel that if Jerry had STFU and not drove Johnson off we would have some more SB Trophy's. But that's water under the bridge. I fear that as long as the Jones' family own's the Cowboys we are in trouble no matter what happens with the current coaches. JMHO.
@DIMEMAN
As a Giants fan, I don’t really care for the Cowboys. I really hate Emmitt Smith because he seemed to save his best performance for us. And we were pretty bad during that great Cowboy run.
As a casual observer, I get blaming Garrett but your problem has been the QB; Romo is like Eli’s opposite. Great in the regular season and mostly average in the postseason. Dak just sucks. People confuse athleticism with ability all the time these days. Give me the guy who has it between the ears every time. Great players have a sense of the flow of a game and know how to impart their will at the right time. And it transcends all sports. You have to prepare to win and know how you’re going to win.
Think of Ali; he might knock him out, out punch him, out last him, out score him. But there was a way to win and he was going to find it.
How many people forget how many series clinching shots were not made by Jordan? Kerr, Paxson, Etc. He gets all the credit as if his pass made the shot go in. (It probably did)
Jimmie Johnson and Troy Aikman were great but they had their finger in the pulse. They knew when 10-7 meant grind out a 17-10
Win and when it meant go for the throat and be up 30-10 and take the game, too.
Special teams.
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