Why are there no newbies collecting actual coins?

jmlanzaf

Every newbie is trying to win the lottery with a rare error. [Or, being cynical, one newbie with multiple alts is trying to aggravate us.] Shouldn't there be a newbie or two asking about buffalo nickels or seated dimes?

We only seem to have ET [Error Trolls].

Hmmm....inquiring minds want to know...

[Benito doesn't count, he's actually trying to collect and is a valued member of the board.]

Zoins

Maybe they are where the PCGS giveaways are? On Instagram?

https://www.instagram.com/pcgscoin/

Trime: 10 comments

Double Cent: 21 comments

jmlanzaf

@Zoins said:
Maybe they are where the PCGS giveaways are? On Instagram?

https://www.instagram.com/pcgscoin/

• Trime:

Interesting suggestion.

AUandAG

Maybe they just collect student debt.

bob

DiggerJim

I am a seven month newbie. The majority of the posts started by me have been questions about errors on coins. But I am currently working three PCGS set registries. Two are Kennedy Silver Short sets and a Lincoln Wheatie set. I plan to go to the Franklins next. I get boxes of cents from the bank and dig through them. I do find coins worth keeping but the majority of my questions are about errors. This is how newbies start isn’t it? Trolling and feeding at the bottom and aggravating the big fish.

DiggerJim

BillJones

Unfortunately one of the main things that motivates people this hobby is the profit motive. Most collectors, and not just the new collectors, are most interested in what is valuable and what can they get for it.

I attend both FUN shows every year. I could easily give a presentation on some historical aspect of the hobby in U.S. coins, tokens, medals, Confederate paper money and British kings. This month I am speaking to my local club about the what people used during the Civil War coin shortage.

Unfortunately I can’t get a spot to speak at any of the FUN shows. The one year I did get the speak on the topic of 1795 U.S. coinage, from the half cent to the gold pieces, I had about 25 come to it. I had a Power Point presentation and a small display of some nice 1795 coins, including the gold pieces. That was not good enough not good enough for the FUN educational chairman.

If the topic is, “What Coins Are Going Up in Price Next Year?” many seats will be filled. If you are giving a book away on coin investment, they are out the door.

The interest you see here is not unusual. It’s just a reflection of what interests people the most

Zoins

Interesting observation @BillJones.

A while back, I did some volunteer teaching at a public school for a 12th grade economics class for a semester. I asked the regular teacher how to capture the attention of his students and he told me most students are interested in making money so if they cannot connect what you are teaching to how they can make money, they will be a lot less attentive and involved.

What are some topics approved for FUN? Is “What Coins Are Going Up in Price Next Year?” an actual talk?

Davideo

I'm sure there are newbies collecting coins, but not posting. The knowledge level is very high on this forum. So I'm sure a lot of newbies lurk and learn. But they may not feel they can add much beyond the information some of our days best experts are providing.

Many of the collectors here also have deep pockets. And while I'm sure the forum would be very encouraging of a collector with a low budget excitedly posting their $100 purchase from eBay, it can be a little intimidating when the most recent NEWP picture could easily be a $50,000 purchase.

BillDugan1959

Why are there almost no new coin collectors? (As opposed to coin speculators, or as opposed to quick buck folks)...

1. American education has become a process of obtaining "certifications" and not a process of learning in the sense of being introduced to, or mastering the concepts of various arts and sciences. Obtaining the proper certificates is what counts nowadays.

2. History is not much taught, nor is it highly valued as a subject. In order to appreciate coins as historic or historical artifacts, one must have some basis, some background learning. Very few obtain such knowledge.

3. Many young people are indeed starting out with too much debt following schooling.

4. Old coins are pricey, new coins are pricey, young people get better value for their limited discretionary income in other things.

Coin collecting s truly hurting. I haven't heard anybody here mention the very recent bankruptcy of F & W Publications (parent company of KP in Wsconsin). Will Numismatic News and the SCWC books continue?

Insider2

@BillJones said:
Unfortunately one of the main things that motivates people this hobby is the profit motive. Most collectors, and not just the new collectors, are most interested in what is valuable and what can they get for it.

I attend both FUN shows every year. I could easily give a presentation on some historical aspect of the hobby in U.S. coins, tokens, medals, Confederate paper money and British kings. This month I am speaking to my local club about the what people used during the Civil War coin shortage.

Unfortunately I can’t get a spot to speak at any of the FUN shows. The one year I did get the speak on the topic of 1795 U.S. coinage, from the half cent to the gold pieces, I had about 25 come to it. I had a Power Point presentation and a small display of some nice 1795 coins, including the gold pieces. That was not good enough not good enough for the FUN educational chairman.

If the topic is, “What Coins Are Going Up in Price Next Year?” many seats will be filled. If you are giving a book away on coin investment, they are out the door.

The interest you see here is not unusual. It’s just a reflection of what interests people the most

IMO, the biggest problem is the cost of vintage coins in MS. Plus the world has moved on to a quicker pace. I think watching Utube videos is more fun than collecting almost anything unless you are rich.

As for FUN Seminars, there are limited slots. Some topics overflow the room. Others don't come close due to limited interest. Lots of speakers propose ideas - good topics, but low interest - and are rejected. The folks that attend Bill's talk are probably true numismatists. And face it, a wonderful talk on1795 coinage, US Mint Patterns Struck in nickel, would probably be less popular than Yap Money and where to find some hidden in your back yard!

yspsales

@Zoins said:
Interesting observation @BillJones.

A while back, I did some volunteer teaching at a public school for a 12th grade economics class for a semester. I asked the regular teacher how to capture the attention of the students and he told me most students are interested in making money so if they cannot connect what you are teaching to how they can make money, they will be a lot less attentive and involved.

What are some topics approved for FUN? Is “What Coins Are Going Up in Price Next Year?” an actual talk?

Essentially every year a talk on VAM's or Silver Dollars. Visit the Lisot digital archives in the Newman Numismatic Portal sometime. Two decades worth of talks recorded.

privatecoin

A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

Cougar1978

I encounter newbies buying currency, CAC, inexpensive material close to BV. They seem to be on a tight budget.

At a recent show many were buying Pcgs slabbed generac Dollars in MS63 to Ms 65 nice brilliant, white, lustrous pieces from a major dealer huge display - prices averaged about 15 pct above bid. The MS 65 coins were $115.

A sharp young vest pocket trader about 11 or 12 was looking at some and he had his own special briefcase he was making some currency deals and carrying a green sheet making deals thru the show w dealers - coins and currency. He may have bought some of those dollars. He offered me some PMG 67 EPQ 1957 1$ silver Cert at $30 each sheet bid was $40 (had retailed one a couple mo prior for $60). I regret I did not buy one. He inquired about my price on a 1937-D MS 66 CAC Oregon show price $360 online price $425. A dealer later bought both his notes for $50 I later found out. A CAC commem sold this morning from my online store for around $300 about 50 pct above it’s CAC bid. A guy offered me a 1861 Newfoundland Canada large cent NGC NGC35 for $30 Queen Victoria and I regret passing on it as well but my existing inventory of Canada has not been selling well plus I had bought a bunch of stuff from GC prior to the show. He mentioned Canada was an ally of the South as the North had a million men on their southern border. Many of my aCanada inventory are extremely low pop coins I will not give away.

cladking

@BillDugan1959 said:

1. American education has become a process of obtaining "certifications" and not a process of learning in the sense of being introduced to, or mastering the concepts of various arts and sciences.

Add in the fact that we tell newbies that they quit making coins in 1964 and the only valuable trinkets in circulation are errors and varieties and this is what many people are looking for. Numismatic News and the price guides maintain prices of face value even for coins that are unattainable in XF like 1969 quarters.

The status quo has become inviolable but most people are mistaken when they believe that we are stuck in 1964 or that time flies. The reality is that "time don't fly, it bounds and leaps" and the more we drag our feet the greater will be the bound in the long term. If you wait long enough every single thing will change.

Insider2

When I was a teen, my father told me that the older I got, the faster the time would pass. Boy, was he right.

Zoins

@Insider2 said:
When I was a teen, my father told me that the older I got, the faster the time would pass. Boy, was he right.

I think it's only because school and work take up more time over the years.

I'm still trying to carve out time to take some coin photos. Copy stand and lights are in the office. Just need to set them up.

yspsales

Stop putting dead presidents on coins would be a great first step.

jmlanzaf

@Insider2 said:

IMO, the biggest problem is the cost of vintage coins in MS. Plus the world has moved on to a quicker pace. I think watching Utube videos is more fun than collecting almost anything unless you are rich.

I honestly don't think this is the problem. If you are talking about early 19th century MS coins, sure. But look at what 65/66 Merc dimes sell for, 65 common date Morgans, 65 Buff Nickels. You could easily put together a really nice 20th century MS type set for not a lot of money.

And why does it have to be MS coins? There was a time, maybe passed, where there were collectors who collected strictly VF/XF sets even if they could afford better because they liked the way they felt and the sense that they were actually a piece of history used in commerce.

jmlanzaf

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

jmlanzaf

@DiggerJim said:
I am a seven month newbie. The majority of the posts started by me have been questions about errors on coins. But I am currently working three PCGS set registries. Two are Kennedy Silver Short sets and a Lincoln Wheatie set. I plan to go to the Franklins next. I get boxes of cents from the bank and dig through them. I do find coins worth keeping but the majority of my questions are about errors. This is how newbies start isn’t it? Trolling and feeding at the bottom and aggravating the big fish.

DiggerJim

I wasn't including you in the Troll category.

But you do raise an interesting question, implicitly. Maybe it is just harder to recognize errors in the wild than differences in coin type.

Gazes

this forum represents a very small picture of all types of collectors including new ones. I think it is easy to over generalize almost anything based upon what we see on this forum

jmlanzaf

@Gazes said:
this forum represents a very small picture of all types of collectors including new ones. I think it is easy to over generalize almost anything based upon what we see on this forum

I wasn't trying to generalize anything. But if there are all kinds of newbie type collectors out there and none here, it is worth asking why they aren't here? And why, of all places, would the error coin newbies BE HERE? Error registry sets anyone?

privatecoin

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

OPA

@yspsales said:
Stop putting dead presidents on coins would be a great first step.

Agree. Also stop trying to recycle classic coin design over & over again, most are boring and not in touch with today's "taste."

291fifth

The greatest general public coin boom of all time, the late 1950s thru 1964 collecting boom, was fueled by the promise of quick profits. It collapsed when the chance of profits from recent rolls and bags of Unc. coins plummeted following the May, 1964 sell-off. Today is just more of the same ... a search for quick profits. This boom won't last long because the secondary market for these micro-varieties and micro-errors is an illusion.

jmlanzaf

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

Most standard type sets do. But YOU don't have to. And it is ALWAYS a mistake, in my humble opinion, to ever tell a new collector that they are collecting wrong.

And it is not incorrect to assign the same design type to 1964 and 1965 quarters. I don't have to care about the underlying planchet difference.

Some people include proofs, other people do not. Etc.

jmlanzaf

@OPA said:

@yspsales said:
Stop putting dead presidents on coins would be a great first step.

Agree. Also stop trying to recycle classic coin design over & over again, most are boring and not in touch with today's "taste."

I agree, but a lot of people (on this board) hate NCLT coins that actually have FUN designs. My absolute favorite coin of the last few years is the Fiji Coke bottle cap. I laugh every time I see it in my office! But purists will tell me it is modern NCLT junk and not worth my time.

privatecoin

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

Most standard type sets do. But YOU don't have to. And it is ALWAYS a mistake, in my humble opinion, to ever tell a new collector that they are collecting wrong.

And it is not incorrect to assign the same design type to 1964 and 1965 quarters. I don't have to care about the underlying planchet difference.

Some people include proofs, other people do not. Etc.

Then agree to disagree clad and silver are not the same thing.

BillJones

Is “What Coins Are Going Up in Price Next Year?” an actual talk?

Yes, it was. The topic was about which silver dollars are undervalued and which ones will be going up in price in the near future.

Smudge

Collecting done right requires work and money. If you look and do the work you can find coins with low survival estimates at surprisingly low prices. Just have to spend the time looking. A new collector may not be willing to spend the time and money necessary and the coins may or may not pay off. But it is a hobby, not a way to fast money so newbies keep roll searching in hopes of the big score. May as well buy lottery tickets.

Zoins

@jmlanzaf said:

@OPA said:

@yspsales said:
Stop putting dead presidents on coins would be a great first step.

Agree. Also stop trying to recycle classic coin design over & over again, most are boring and not in touch with today's "taste."

I agree, but a lot of people (on this board) hate NCLT coins that actually have FUN designs. My absolute favorite coin of the last few years is the Fiji Coke bottle cap. I laugh every time I see it in my office! But purists will tell me it is modern NCLT junk and not worth my time.

Every forum has a different character so we probably can't expect everyone to be on one place. Just like we can't expect everyone here to be on Instagram.

Here's a Coke bottle cap coin and special holder.

jmlanzaf

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

Most standard type sets do. But YOU don't have to. And it is ALWAYS a mistake, in my humble opinion, to ever tell a new collector that they are collecting wrong.

And it is not incorrect to assign the same design type to 1964 and 1965 quarters. I don't have to care about the underlying planchet difference.

Some people include proofs, other people do not. Etc.

Then agree to disagree clad and silver are not the same thing.

To you. That's the point. You get to decide.

Do you collect mint mark types? After all, a big old S is a much mor obvious difference than a planchet composition.

So does your type set include proof clad, proof silver as separate types? Proof coins at all? The set you posted doesn't include proofs even though that's a whole different minting process.

hchcoin

My 22 year old son collects Indian Head cents.

yspsales

Saw an older presentation the other night from FUN (I think)

Speaker noted that most new collectors entry into the hobby come via moderns, then advance into other areas.

So what do you do?

Though the new reverse designs have been hit or miss, there is too much political capital tied to these dead presidents to change.

Retire Liberty and the presidents to the half Dollar and Dollar coins.

Give me an obverse with Animals, flags, landmarks, bridges, buildings... just give us give something new

jmlanzaf

@Smudge said:
Collecting done right requires work and money. If you look and do the work you can find coins with low survival estimates at surprisingly low prices. Just have to spend the time looking. A new collector may not be willing to spend the time and money necessary and the coins may or may not pay off. But it is a hobby, not a way to fast money so newbies keep roll searching in hopes of the big score. May as well buy lottery tickets.

I disagree. Who decides what is done right? You can collect a nearly complete set of Jefferson nickels, including the silvers, by roll searching. That's a nickel per coin and hours of fun. Perfectly legitimate way to collect.

You can collect coins fron each country from a dealer's world junk for 5 to 25 cents each. Perfectly legitimate and fun way to collect on a budget

privatecoin

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

Most standard type sets do. But YOU don't have to. And it is ALWAYS a mistake, in my humble opinion, to ever tell a new collector that they are collecting wrong.

And it is not incorrect to assign the same design type to 1964 and 1965 quarters. I don't have to care about the underlying planchet difference.

Some people include proofs, other people do not. Etc.

Then agree to disagree clad and silver are not the same thing.

To you. That's the point. You get to decide.

Do you collect mint mark types? After all, a big old S is a much mor obvious difference than a planchet composition.

So does your type set include proof clad, proof silver as separate types? Proof coins at all? The set you posted doesn't include proofs even though that's a whole different minting process.

Does that type set say proof anywhere?

BillJones

@yspsales said:
Stop putting dead presidents on coins would be a great first step.

Lady Liberty was as much overused in the 19th century as the “dead presidents” are now. I noted the other day that Adam Smith (a great economist) was on a British note when we were getting ready to send some British currency we had around the house to someone who was going to England. American coins might benefit from including some historical figures other than politicians, but hold your breath on that one.

jmlanzaf

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@privatecoin said:
A recent talk i had with a teenager who was interested in my coin hobby tried to argue with me that there is no difference between a 1964 and 1965 quarter since they both look silver....

He has a valid point. And that's the joy of type collecting, you can define what constitutes a type.

Sure looks like most type sets see a difference in silver and clad. Just 1 example.

Most standard type sets do. But YOU don't have to. And it is ALWAYS a mistake, in my humble opinion, to ever tell a new collector that they are collecting wrong.

And it is not incorrect to assign the same design type to 1964 and 1965 quarters. I don't have to care about the underlying planchet difference.

Some people include proofs, other people do not. Etc.

Then agree to disagree clad and silver are not the same thing.

To you. That's the point. You get to decide.

Do you collect mint mark types? After all, a big old S is a much mor obvious difference than a planchet composition.

So does your type set include proof clad, proof silver as separate types? Proof coins at all? The set you posted doesn't include proofs even though that's a whole different minting process.

Does that type set say proof anywhere?

Misses the point entirely

BillDugan1959

It is not so much that Adam Smith was an economist as that he was a Scotsman. In the UK order of things, it seemed advisable to have a Scotsman on a current banknote. These Smith paper Bank of England notes are presently being replaced with a new polymer note, with a portrait of the Romantic oil painter J.M.W. Turner. Many coins and banknotes have been replaced in the U.K. in recent years.

Zoins

@jmlanzaf I just saw that the 250 mintage .999 gold Coca-Cola bottle cap coin is now offered for $25,995. Not sure these are the most popular forums to discuss these coins, but they are interesting.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-NGC-FIJI-50-1oz-Gold-COCA-COLA-pr70-FDOI-MINTAGE-250-FIRST-1OZ-GOLD-ever/323616247478

jmlanzaf

@Zoins said:
@jmlanzaf I just saw that the 250 mintage .999 gold Coca-Cola bottle cap coin is now offered for $25,995. Not sure these are the most popular forums to discuss these coins, but they are interesting.

Not as much fun. Doesn't look like a bottle cap

ricko

Coin collecting is a hobby... a diversion from life's cares and problems....People cannot be forced into a hobby, something must attract them to that field of interest. In the case of coins, it may well be the chance of finding something of value in pocket change... which requires perusal of coins, learning terms, checking resources, collecting examples and asking questions..... then 'voila''.. you have a coin collector.... or not. Cheers, RickO

Aspie_Rocco

Bump

emeraldATV

Sry I flashed through after reading the first 5 or six BOO HOO's.
It sounds like the $$$$$ are clogging up you thoughts. Never tell someone what or how to collect as a newbe. A teenager will shut you down in a second. Pre-teen, will pull the plug before the teenager can act.
The greater aspect of THE COIN IN QUESTION OR IN HAND, will follow and they can say they did it their way. AND ITS what they want to proceed on their terms...Hated homework, love adventure. OUt
Don't get the floor wet.... PS
Everyone have a good night. DG

Zoins

@FSF said:
It's quite ironic that most "collectors" care more about money than coins.

It should be true in general because you need money for most live necessities, not collector coins.

It's hard for me to believe this is true with respect to a positive financial return on collector coins as I imagine collecting is a money losing proposition for most collectors.

giantsfan20

Todays youth are interested in things they can relate to. Items such as yugi or magic the gathering or Funko Toys which are plastic figures sold at retail outlets and are the popular collectible toy at this moment.

The ones who post seem for the most part seem to buy coin x at what they think is a good buy the forum posts that said purchase was cleaned etc and or overpaid.

Would like to know if others here continued collecting when young as myself because your dad or family member did going to coins shows reading coin magazines and continued on today.

giantsfan20

My Business Law class is fuzzy but buying and selling to a minor has some legal ramifications?

Zoins

@giantsfan20 said:
Todays youth are interested in things they can relate to. Items such as yugi or magic the gathering or Funko Toys which are plastic figures sold at retail outlets and are the popular collectible toy at this moment.

I talked to a B&M dealer who told me that she wished the US Mint would make things like Spiderman coins because that's what the youth at her store like. At least it's a coin.

Here's a photo from the Coin Vault:

https://www.thecoinvault.com/p-13254-2017-spider-man-1oz-gold-5oz-1oz-silver-3-coin-set-ngc-pf70-mercanti-signed.aspx

matt_dac

Maybe the new collectors do collect things like Wheat cents and Buffalo nickels but don't post about it? I don't know though, I think you have a point. Every post I see here and ATS is always about some obscure error on modern coins. Maybe a generational thing? I couldn't care less about any coin after 1964 (save the recent Apollo commems) and I barely care about anything after 1933 (ha ha).

When I was a kid I was thrilled to get a couple wheat cents or the like and they were my treasures.

WaterSport

I am not sure this is even related but it might be why we are seeing a lot of error questions and folks thinking about making money and not really trying to “collect”.

For some time now, its been my observation on eBay that a number of listings for the 1992 Close AM cents, and some ordinary circulated wheats have been nothing short of ridiculous. Sure – we have all seen the scammer/rip-off artist before that post some ridiculous price for an ordinary coin, or a copied pictured of a rare coin - with no previous sales history listed by the seller. However, what I am seeing is a spike in the efforts of which these very un-knowledgeable folks are listing a coin worth a thousand for $50 and a wheat cent worth 3 cents at $500 dollars. So, my impression is; somewhere out there on social media or YouTube, etc., some article appeared and every yahoo has jumped on the effort to rip-off, or actually think because they find a 1992 cent; it’s worth thousands. The message behind this effort is probably not about building a set of Washington quarters, that does not get enough traffic for marketers, it about getting rich quick – which gets everyone’s attention.
WS

BeeMan

I spend a lot of time on Instagram. There seems to be a lot of young collectors there.