The pics up top are totally different than those of the coin in holder. In either case, the color is questionable, and I would not go near it. I have no idea how this coin should grade, because I don't collect Peace Dollars.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Wow, one of the best examples I've seen of "buy the coin" and not the holder or grade. Maybe in hand I could see the grade (maybe).... Of course I don't like toners anyway, but my OMG.
@gtstang said:
The toning pattern is similar to this 1922.
Yes. I knew the submitter of that coin too. The one you cited is the poster image for the questionable color designation on the PCGS statistic web page or it was for some time. The one you posted went QC multiple times before finally straight grading as a 64.
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
Should have been sent in for regrade and sticker at GC. At least to CAC. Left 5K on the table!
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
There is also a different clientele at Legend that likely don’t pay attention to GC auctions (and might stick only to Legend, just as they will stick to only CAC).
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
Should have been sent in for regrade and sticker at GC. At least to CAC. Left 5K on the table!
Ian's images are also washed out a bit.
The person who consigned it to GC did send it to CAC and it failed as a 64.
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
Should have been sent in for regrade and sticker at GC. At least to CAC. Left 5K on the table!
Ian's images are also washed out a bit.
The person who consigned it to GC did send it to CAC and it failed as a 64.
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
What a polarizing coin. Some disdain it, yet some other colletors bid it up to 9k.
My question is — couldn’t that arc of terminal toning on the reverse suggest that the Peace is in fact naturally toned? Perhaps it was in some kind of cardboard holder or similar environment. My thinking is that a deliberate bad actor would stop short of inducing dark brown toning.
Or, are there examples of known AT out there showing a pattern like on the reverse?
@planetsteve said:
My question is — couldn’t that arc of terminal toning on the reverse suggest that the Peace is in fact naturally toned? Perhaps it was in some kind of cardboard holder or similar environment. My thinking is that a deliberate bad actor would stop short of inducing dark brown toning.
Not necessarily. Some coin doctors are quacks. AT often is blotchy and ugly.
@planetsteve said:
What a polarizing coin. Some disdain it, yet some other colletors bid it up to 9k.
My question is — couldn’t that arc of terminal toning on the reverse suggest that the Peace is in fact naturally toned? Perhaps it was in some kind of cardboard holder or similar environment. My thinking is that a deliberate bad actor would stop short of inducing dark brown toning.
Or, are there examples of known AT out there showing a pattern like on the reverse?
It could suggest it being natural as no one would want to deliberately produce terminal toning. However, it is also possible that the coin already had the terminal toning and someone was just experimenting (and ended up enhancing the overall look).
@Wabbit2313 said:
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
Should have been sent in for regrade and sticker at GC. At least to CAC. Left 5K on the table!
Ian's images are also washed out a bit.
The person who consigned it to GC did send it to CAC and it failed as a 64.
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
@bestday said:
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
@U1chicago said:
Not without risking the bam hammer.
I didn't start this thread to bash CAC, but this is an example of why I say that people should (1) know what they're doing, (2) do their due diligence, and (3) buy the coin and not the sticker or plastic (sorry Catbert - I know you hate that cliche). I do not believe that it is natural, and a large number of collectors won't find it market acceptable either. Raw, I doubt many people would pay $100 for it. PCGS and CAC for that matter wouldn't pay more than generic 64 money for it in the holder with a sticker. I hope the person that bought this did so because he/she was happy with the coin and did not blindly buy it based on someone else's opinion. Everyone makes mistakes, even the pros.
The color is to me uneven, with red green yellow overpowering the obverse. don't get me wrong its very cool and stunning. if I were to buy such a coin, I'm very picky in the color burst. to grade this I'm stepping back due to the coin itself. ink blot says made in the sixties as per ty dye. groovy
@bestday said:
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
@U1chicago said:
Not without risking the bam hammer.
I didn't start this thread to bash CAC, but this is an example of why I say that people should (1) know what they're doing, (2) do their due diligence, and (3) buy the coin and not the sticker or plastic (sorry Catbert - I know you hate that cliche). I do not believe that it is natural, and a large number of collectors won't find it market acceptable either. Raw, I doubt many people would pay $100 for it. PCGS and CAC for that matter wouldn't pay more than generic 64 money for it in the holder with a sticker. I hope the person that bought this did so because he/she was happy with the coin and did not blindly buy it based on someone else's opinion. Everyone makes mistakes, even the pros.
no bashing....find it odd to shop coin graders until coin owners hit the lotto grade ,sticker
I wonder if this was the same guy who cooked up a BU roll of 1924s with purple and blue crescents, one of which I owned in an NGC65 holder and I think discussed here in a previous thread. If so, his colors are improving.
@bestday said:
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
@U1chicago said:
Not without risking the bam hammer.
I didn't start this thread to bash CAC, but this is an example of why I say that people should (1) know what they're doing, (2) do their due diligence, and (3) buy the coin and not the sticker or plastic (sorry Catbert - I know you hate that cliche). I do not believe that it is natural, and a large number of collectors won't find it market acceptable either. Raw, I doubt many people would pay $100 for it. PCGS and CAC for that matter wouldn't pay more than generic 64 money for it in the holder with a sticker. I hope the person that bought this did so because he/she was happy with the coin and did not blindly buy it based on someone else's opinion. Everyone makes mistakes, even the pros.
no bashing....find it odd to shop coin graders until coin owners hit the lotto grade ,sticker
I didn't mean to suggest that you or @U1chicago were. I was clarifying my intent.
@gtstang said:
It apparently made more than one trip around the block.
I'd like to see the CAC only crowd or the poster that said CAC was always correct defend this one. As I have said (and been flamed for many times over), no one is perfect and buying anything blindly is stupid.
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read the auction description in which the auctioneer opines it as "one of the FINEST toned Peace dollars that exists," and a "9+ on our 10-point color scale." In light of the new information that has come forward, I have become even more cynical of auction descriptions than I was before.
@gtstang said:
It apparently made more than one trip around the block.
This is exactly why Legend wants to protect the hobby and remove the CoinFacts images, right?
I'd want to hide the QC images too, but I would have gone to Phil directly and asked him to remove the images before it ended up in the "right" plastic for the consignor.
@stman said:
Good thing we are protected these days.
Thankfully we have stickers to tell us what is original and super PQ.
To the CAC is always correct crowd (yes someone explicitly said that here in another thread), which time do you think CAC was correct? I think first impressions are usually correct.
Comments
@Wabbit2313 - It was a 64 at GC. You grabbed the Legend slab shot.
Whoops, fixed!
As much as I was happy with Great Collections, this is a very bad commercial for them!
The pics up top are totally different than those of the coin in holder. In either case, the color is questionable, and I would not go near it. I have no idea how this coin should grade, because I don't collect Peace Dollars.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Wow, one of the best examples I've seen of "buy the coin" and not the holder or grade. Maybe in hand I could see the grade (maybe).... Of course I don't like toners anyway, but my OMG.
The toning pattern is similar to this 1922.
Yes. I knew the submitter of that coin too. The one you cited is the poster image for the questionable color designation on the PCGS statistic web page or it was for some time. The one you posted went QC multiple times before finally straight grading as a 64.
Yeah I think $9000 qualifies as an insane premium.
I'm not so sure of that. GC produced strong results. I don't think Legend's use of TVs or its slab shot made the difference. I think it was the sticker, but of course that is speculation.
Wait, that coin seriously sold for 9k?!
Yes.
Is there by chance a video online showing how it looks as you rotate it?
Neither auction lot included a video unfortunately.
dings across the back of the reverse eagle did it in.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Should have been sent in for regrade and sticker at GC. At least to CAC. Left 5K on the table!
Ian's images are also washed out a bit.
Here you go:
https://www.instagram.com/jr_coins77/p/BkFz1ktgDT2/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=mk1uou913jiw
There is also a different clientele at Legend that likely don’t pay attention to GC auctions (and might stick only to Legend, just as they will stick to only CAC).
Nice detective work U1chicago!
After watching that video, PCGS owns me a WHOLE bunch of money back for my Peace dollars they rejected over the years!
The person who consigned it to GC did send it to CAC and it failed as a 64.
Can someone say how cac rejects a pcgs 64 .....then ,again same coin ....pcgs gives it a 64+.... and cac gives it's blessing with a green bean sticker......this is an example why our coin club has cut back yearly buying by over 50 %
What a polarizing coin. Some disdain it, yet some other colletors bid it up to 9k.
My question is — couldn’t that arc of terminal toning on the reverse suggest that the Peace is in fact naturally toned? Perhaps it was in some kind of cardboard holder or similar environment. My thinking is that a deliberate bad actor would stop short of inducing dark brown toning.
Or, are there examples of known AT out there showing a pattern like on the reverse?
Not necessarily. Some coin doctors are quacks. AT often is blotchy and ugly.
It could suggest it being natural as no one would want to deliberately produce terminal toning. However, it is also possible that the coin already had the terminal toning and someone was just experimenting (and ended up enhancing the overall look).
Not without risking the bam hammer.
I didn't start this thread to bash CAC, but this is an example of why I say that people should (1) know what they're doing, (2) do their due diligence, and (3) buy the coin and not the sticker or plastic (sorry Catbert - I know you hate that cliche). I do not believe that it is natural, and a large number of collectors won't find it market acceptable either. Raw, I doubt many people would pay $100 for it. PCGS and CAC for that matter wouldn't pay more than generic 64 money for it in the holder with a sticker. I hope the person that bought this did so because he/she was happy with the coin and did not blindly buy it based on someone else's opinion. Everyone makes mistakes, even the pros.
The color is to me uneven, with red green yellow overpowering the obverse. don't get me wrong its very cool and stunning. if I were to buy such a coin, I'm very picky in the color burst. to grade this I'm stepping back due to the coin itself. ink blot says made in the sixties as per ty dye. groovy
It apparently made more than one trip around the block.
no bashing....find it odd to shop coin graders until coin owners hit the lotto grade ,sticker
wow
I wonder if this was the same guy who cooked up a BU roll of 1924s with purple and blue crescents, one of which I owned in an NGC65 holder and I think discussed here in a previous thread. If so, his colors are improving.
Commems and Early Type
I didn't mean to suggest that you or @U1chicago were. I was clarifying my intent.
I'd like to see the CAC only crowd or the poster that said CAC was always correct defend this one. As I have said (and been flamed for many times over), no one is perfect and buying anything blindly is stupid.
Even if both PCGS and CAC is wrong, PCGS is only on the hook for about 50 bucks. Dude who paid 9K, a bit more than that!
I've held this coin in-hand a few different times. I always have, and always will, think it is NOT naturally toned.
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read the auction description in which the auctioneer opines it as "one of the FINEST toned Peace dollars that exists," and a "9+ on our 10-point color scale." In light of the new information that has come forward, I have become even more cynical of auction descriptions than I was before.
Nice coin
If it’s good enough for PCGS and cac it’s good enough for y’all. Deal with it.
This is exactly why Legend wants to protect the hobby and remove the CoinFacts images, right?
I'd want to hide the QC images too, but I would have gone to Phil directly and asked him to remove the images before it ended up in the "right" plastic for the consignor.
Sadly I think this thread will end up being deleted by tomorrow morning.
It will be gone but not forgotten.
Good thing we are protected these days.
wouldn't the coin buyer get a refund for the coin .....being not as described ?
Thankfully we have stickers to tell us what is original and super PQ.
To the CAC is always correct crowd (yes someone explicitly said that here in another thread), which time do you think CAC was correct? I think first impressions are usually correct.
I think it’s kinda cool. I’d enjoy a complete set toned like the two pictured in this thread
Even though it bagged as AT and was initially rejected by CAC once it did straight grade finally (after a year of trying)?
You don’t think there are thousands of other coins with that same history in regular holders?
There are