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ONE OF THE CROWN JEWELS OF MY COLLECTION $20 1850-O AU-53 SHOULD I SUBMIT FOR RECONSIDERATION?

blackhorse360blackhorse360 Posts: 298 ✭✭✭
edited February 20, 2019 10:49PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I just thought I’d share this coin with you guys.This is a 1850-O Which is not only the first year of issue for the Double Eagle but it’s also the first year for the New Orleans Mint. It took me forever to find it but I finally did and I couldn’t pass it up! The gold is almost a greenish orange if that makes sense and the fields are proof like. I’m thinking of submitting back to PCGS for reconsideration because even just a + upgraded would be huge on this coin. I may even submit to CAC. Do you guys think it has a chance for an upgrade or even a CAC sticker? Thanks for your help!

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Comments

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the last auction appearance for your coin which should help:

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Uh, your caps lock seems to be on.
    Leave it.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2019 4:49AM

    I don't think the grade was such a gift. 50/53 same ballpark 53 OK with me. You guys think it's XF ? I only have the same problem I have with almost all coins of this grade too much circulation to be eye appealing to me.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Too much 'chatter' for an upgrade

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:
    I don't think the grade was such a gift. 50/53 same ballpark 53 OK with me. You guys think it's XF ? I only have the same problem I have with almost all coins of this grade too much circulation to be eye appealing to me.

    +1

    On the Obverse of the $20 I always look at the hair under Liberty's ear: on a XF45 the hair is worn flat...on this coin the hair is fairly worn but it does show a little detail...more than a XF45 but less than a AU55...AU53 seems like a fair grade to me...but I think a "+" or an upgrade is probably not going to happen...

    There are 54 50-O $20s with CAC stickers...but CAC is tough on old gold especially in AU...while old gold is my focus...I would have to see the coin in hand to make a better guess on whether it would sticker...but even then I would probably be wrong...

    Sending the coin to CAC would be a good move and IMHO very educational...especially if you can arrange a phone call with JA to hear his comments in person...and save you the time and money of sending in for re-grading...if it doesn't get a sticker I wouldn't even try to re-grade...

  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's an XF45 of the same date in an upcoming auction...definitely more detail left on the hair in the OP's coin...

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the picture posted after the OP, - if it is indeed the same coin - I would recommend you keep it as is.... not worth resubmitting.... Cheers, RickO

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overgraded and no sticker likely. Far too many circulation dings in the obverse and reverse surfaces for a coin of that grade.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would probably do a regrade/secure plus and you get the TV images. Alternatively you could try NGC raw, I could see it going 55 there. NGC used to be pretty liberal on its 58s on gold coins. On an 'O' mint $20 I had a PCGS 50 go to 58 there.

  • @jonruns said:

    @JimTyler said:
    I don't think the grade was such a gift. 50/53 same ballpark 53 OK with me. You guys think it's XF ? I only have the same problem I have with almost all coins of this grade too much circulation to be eye appealing to me.

    +1

    On the Obverse of the $20 I always look at the hair under Liberty's ear: on a XF45 the hair is worn flat...on this coin the hair is fairly worn but it does show a little detail...more than a XF45 but less than a AU55...AU53 seems like a fair grade to me...but I think a "+" or an upgrade is probably not going to happen...

    There are 54 50-O $20s with CAC stickers...but CAC is tough on old gold especially in AU...while old gold is my focus...I would have to see the coin in hand to make a better guess on whether it would sticker...but even then I would probably be wrong...

    Sending the coin to CAC would be a good move and IMHO very educational...especially if you can arrange a phone call with JA to hear his comments in person...and save you the time and money of sending in for re-grading...if it doesn't get a sticker I wouldn't even try to re-grade...

    That’s a really good idea. That’s the direction I’m leaning

  • Thanks for all the comments guys!

  • Even at AU-53 do you guys think it still has good potential for appreciation in the future?

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Survival estimate in all grades is 626 coins if that helps.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think AU53 is a fair gift. Here is an XF45 from PCGS's photograde. Quite a variance from OP's. I am by no means greatly proficient in old gold so this is JMO.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:
    Even at AU-53 do you guys think it still has good potential for appreciation in the future?

    NO. It does not have the look serious collectors of that coin want. As I said before, it has too many circulation dings on both the obverse and reverse. People with money collect double eagles. They want nice looking coins for the grade.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What keets and BillJones say.

    Leave it be and enjoy it.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    +1

    @CaptHenway said:
    What keets and BillJones say.

    Leave it be and enjoy it.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    leave it alone :)

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin has a rich lustrous gold look which is hard to find these with. Also I bought an ICG AU50 'O' mint $20 from the old National Gold, the late Tom Paine 20 years ago. I cracked it out and NGC called it a 55 and sold it to Paul Nugget./

    'O' mint $20s explode in price from grade to grade.

  • @logger7 said:
    The coin has a rich lustrous gold look which is hard to find these with. Also I bought an ICG AU50 'O' mint $20 from the old National Gold, the late Tom Paine 20 years ago. I cracked it out and NGC called it a 55 and sold it to Paul Nugget./

    'O' mint $20s explode in price from grade to grade.

    Yes they do! There is a $15 to $20k difference between 53 and 58. It does have an Amazing look and I had a Pro look at it and he said he feels it has a Strong Proof Like look. I do think if I could just attain a CAC Sticker on that’s the best I could ask for but I know the odds are probably slim due to the value of the coin

  • @291fifth said:

    @blackhorse360 said:
    Even at AU-53 do you guys think it still has good potential for appreciation in the future?

    NO. It does not have the look serious collectors of that coin want. As I said before, it has too many circulation dings on both the obverse and reverse. People with money collect double eagles. They want nice looking coins for the grade.

    I collect double eagles and have a set that would probably rival most I don’t know but it depends on what you want to spend. This coin is a $17,000.00 coin all day everyday. If you jump to a 58 it’s drastic. I do agree with you that collectors want the nicest coins they can find but some may be more in to high Grade CC Mint Double Eagles then they are O coins or vice verse. Anyway thanks for your feedback you guys are a great help!

  • @jonruns said:
    Here's an XF45 of the same date in an upcoming auction...definitely more detail left on the hair in the OP's coin...

    Wow Thanks for the example!

  • CoinPhysicistCoinPhysicist Posts: 597 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2019 9:47AM

    WAS ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IN THE TITLE REALLY NECESSARY FOR THIS THREAD?

    Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.

  • AblinkyAblinky Posts: 625 ✭✭✭

    I'm with Mr. Feld, no downside with a regrade and since the coin isn't in an OGH or something similar there's no harm in putting it in a new holder. Plus, grading fees would be less as if it did upgrade under reconsideration you have to pay the guarantee premium. On another note, your pictures leave much to be desired as what the coin really looks like.

    Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have an excellent coin in solid EF condition. Why mess with it?

  • batumibatumi Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    The coin has a rich lustrous gold look which is hard to find these with. Also I bought an ICG AU50 'O' mint $20 from the old National Gold, the late Tom Paine 20 years ago. I cracked it out and NGC called it a 55 and sold it to Paul Nugget./

    'O' mint $20s explode in price from grade to grade.

    I dp like the original look of th OP's coin, though I would keep looking if I was looking for a similar coin. Just too many heavy hits inho.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:

    @291fifth said:

    @blackhorse360 said:
    Even at AU-53 do you guys think it still has good potential for appreciation in the future?

    NO. It does not have the look serious collectors of that coin want. As I said before, it has too many circulation dings on both the obverse and reverse. People with money collect double eagles. They want nice looking coins for the grade.

    I collect double eagles and have a set that would probably rival most I don’t know but it depends on what you want to spend. This coin is a $17,000.00 coin all day everyday. If you jump to a 58 it’s drastic. I do agree with you that collectors want the nicest coins they can find but some may be more in to high Grade CC Mint Double Eagles then they are O coins or vice verse. Anyway thanks for your feedback you guys are a great help!

    My advice to all collectors is that they should tighten their own grading standards for all purchases whether expensive or not. How much will any coin bring when it is put up sale ... only the supply and demand of the market knows. In my experience many/most collectors overestimate the value of their collections often because they haven't been strict enough in their grading evaluations when buying. They let "neatness" cloud their thinking.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blackhorse, send it to CAC and go from there. No downside for you at all. Even if it doesn’t not CAC the risk reward of regrading may be worth it. There are a couple well known coingrumps in this thread, watch out :) they may end up being right but listening to them is enthusiasm kryptonite.

  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭✭

    count your blessings ...xf ,,gift grade..coin club sold an Au years ago, that looked a lot better

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    crack that puppy out, take it to Pittsburgh and do a 2-day Walkthrough.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leave it alone and send it to CAC !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • @Timbuk3 said:
    Leave it alone and send it to CAC !!! :)

    This is what I’m going to do. If it were by chance to CAC that’s the best I can ask for. As far as others have mentioned about the luster and color. You really have to see this coin in person to truly appreciate it. I love the greenish orange gold color. It’s unlike any other double eagle I own

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Given the spread, I would try it even though I don't think an upgrade is likely. If all else fails, and it comes back as an AU53, send it to CAC. My understanding is that AU50/53 is pretty much treated the same.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    I think AU53 is a fair gift. Here is an XF45 from PCGS's photograde. Quite a variance from OP's. I am by no means greatly proficient in old gold so this is JMO.
    Jim

    While this is one of the better struck New Orleans issues, New Orleans gold frequently comes with strike issues. It is not as well struck as later dates or even the Philadelphia issue from the same year.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2019 1:18AM

    Now that Coin Facts images are subject to disappear at any time as registry participants change their coins, I'll post all of the examples in Coin Facts below AU58+. The first is the OP's coin. The second is a PCGS AU 53. The next two are AU50. The last two are EF45.





  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2019 2:02AM

    Here’s another picture of the OP’s coin. The coins detail is very similar to the 53 on Coinfacts. The surfaces look better on the below picture but the picture still is not very good. If it were my coin I would definitely send it to CAC for starters.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm leaning towards 53+.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2019 2:28AM

    An AU55 literally just popped up in Coin Facts tonight. OP's coin bottom.


  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of comments on the design details of the coin and not enough about the surfaces. To me the color ,haziness and overall processed look shown would cause me to prefer to find a different specimen regardless of technical grade. Sorry for being a bit harsh just offering my honest opinion.

  • @Boosibri said:
    Lots of comments on the design details of the coin and not enough about the surfaces. To me the color ,haziness and overall processed look shown would cause me to prefer to find a different specimen regardless of technical grade. Sorry for being a bit harsh just offering my honest opinion.

    No worries that’s what I’m asking for. Just remember that it is extremely difficult and extremely expensive to find what you are suggesting. As I said in an earlier post the jump from AU-53 to AU-55 is huge and a jump to AU-58 is drastic. My best hope would be a plus grade or a CAC or Both!

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2019 10:06AM

    @blackhorse360 said:

    @Boosibri said:
    Lots of comments on the design details of the coin and not enough about the surfaces. To me the color ,haziness and overall processed look shown would cause me to prefer to find a different specimen regardless of technical grade. Sorry for being a bit harsh just offering my honest opinion.

    No worries that’s what I’m asking for. Just remember that it is extremely difficult and extremely expensive to find what you are suggesting. As I said in an earlier post the jump from AU-53 to AU-55 is huge and a jump to AU-58 is drastic. My best hope would be a plus grade or a CAC or Both!

    Unless you’re an advanced collector with a really good eye you should have bought a + grade or CAC example if that’s what you were looking for instead of hoping your coin will improve. Id assume that an expensive coin like that has probably been sent to CAC. The crackout resubmit game usually doesn’t work for most of us. Most expensive coins probably have been sent to CAC already and the grades are maximized when the coin is sold and there’s little if any extra meat on the bone.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I cracked it out and NGC called it a 55 and sold it to Paul Nugget.

    I'm sorry, but that is funny! You sold your gold to Mr. Nugget :D

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd just send it to CAC. If it stickers, that's your upgrade.

    thefinn
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like your coin! Send it to CAC

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