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Lets rip this one apart, Real or Noreal?
Realone
Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭✭
Please excuse the seller's lousy pics, and the fact that he shot it thru cellophane which is often problematic.
But lets have fun and see what we have with this one.
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Comments
Realone or close to it although some of the numbers look funky.
Not my series but I can tell you that I hate when they don't bother to take out of 2x2. Always some distortion when they leave in it. I see nothing that would make me run.. It's a I, II right? Arrow points look off but that may just be the plastic. Certainly it has been cleaned. Rims look good, dentils look too short. I would suspect this might not be okay. Certainly would want to see different pics or in hand.
Not one of the really crude fakes but can't tell anything more without better pictures or coin in hand.
As you know, I'm sure, the 1875-s 1/2 micro s is a harder variety to find. This coin, in the photos provided, looks genuine to me. Any chance for better photos?
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
At a time when some counterfeit T$ are passing undetected when examined in hand by professionals, IMO this is a useless exercise using a crappy image that will not magnify. The die combination is known (1/2M); yet IMO, nothing will be learned from this post except DON'T BUY COINS FROM A CRAPPY IMAGE.
@ Realone, You are the expert. I'll look forward to learning what you see that is so obvious.
Harshly cleaned but genuine is my WAG. Wish the pics were better.
id rather have one from a reputable dealer or one that is slabbed. jmo
Great advice😉
Insider is right. This is an exercise in futility given the current state of Trade Dollars and the difficulty in authenticating them.
If real, definitely cleaned...
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My advice is don't buy any raw Trade Dollars. It's just not worth the risk.
Nice silver polish and rag rubbing job on that puppy. Ooooo, so shiny.
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this is the us coin forum Reales go over in world coins noob
exactly, so many folks post everywhere.
My usual comment: pictures in holders are useless
BHNC #203
Insider, do you have any photos of the Trade Dollars that are getting past the pros?
I like Trade Dollars...and always check them out when I see one (antique shops etc.).... However, between the photo and the fact that it also is in a 2x2, one cannot really judge this coin...Though it looks cleaned and a tad 'heavy' on Liberty's features... I await the expert input. Cheers, RickO
I don’t like the cleaning ware to the details.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
About a decade ago, a few pages in the FUN newsletter was devoted to images of the best C/F Trade dollars at that time. As a start, I'd look for that info on the Internet. When I get the time, I'll see what I can find for you also.
Unfortunately, I only have micrographs of C/F diagnostics which I will not publish. Frankly, the "modern" State-of-the-Art counterfeits (especially the new pieces in the copper series) are so good that if the fakers stop leaving this defect it will make my job more tough than it is even using high magnification.
Let me make a few points. The coin series that the most skillful counterfeiters prey on changes. A decade ago it was Trade dollars. Previous to this, it took a few seconds to authenticate one of these coins using a microscope. Now, I'm studying the surface of many of these coins for several minutes before making a determination. I've heard that many of these coins are being returned with no decision at other TPGS's. Next, they attacked early dollars, then Seated Liberty half dollars. Half cents and Large cents are the favorite today.
Aside from the TPGS's, the best protection anyone has is to examine genuine coins closely. 90% of the counterfeits that we read about are crude. Unfortunately, one man's crude fake is another's deceptive fake. That's why it is important to learn what a genuine coin should look like.
Here is the thing about posting "specific" diagnostics of fakes...in a short time, they are no help at all as the counterfeits improve. Heck, in the 1970's you could tell a fake piece of gold from a foot away just by its color. When that improved, for a few years the fakes had "wormy tool marks." Again, two seconds to detect the fakes. Then they were no longer seen on the best C/F's and detection often took more time.
It is not quite as bad as I've portrayed. Not much gets by the 4 major services , if anything does, it is usually caught in a short period of time. That's because after a dozen eyes examine a coin at a TPGS, Several million eyes check their opinion.
Obviously no one can say for sure from those pictures, but my gut feeling is that it is not genuine.
The spacing on the reverse TRADE between the R and the A and the A and the D are the number one identifiers you're looking at a Chinese counterfeit.
I'm sorry, but your photos suck. The images are of the same quality that some of the newer posters use to show off their parking lot finds. I would not attempt to authenticate based on awful images like those - sorry.
A little joke ,
the trade dollar is a sad attempt by the US to copy the king of all coins the amazing 8 reales , so all trade dollars are essentially counterfeits .
The logic is irrefutable
I would agree, but then I would be a hypocrite for criticizing people who use the grading services and CAC as crutches. I agree that this is a series where you truly need to be an expert in your series before buying raw.
yaaaaa but the 77-s is like $80 bucks circulated , too cheap a coin to waste money slabbing
The letter "S" in the word GRAINS is too low based upon the picture. I'm not buying it............
funny you should mention that , because it was actually found in a parking lot!!
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In front of a coin shop
Make the lines ...
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Not completely blank.
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I'll give it a try
oops
The verticals on the "D" in TRADE are very fat, and the opening down the middle is unusually thin.
So you know the photos are pretty much worthless and post them anyway?
Tooks bad to me. Look at 420 Grains, the shape of the numbers are off and the path the letters take is uneven. T in TRADE appears to be missing a lower serif.
It’s a real one realone.
Yes it means EVERYTHING. As I wrote before **IMO, this is a useless discussion and so far the reasons given why this coin may not be genuine are hilarious. It reminds me of the good-old-days when a dealer "Ex-Pert" would see one tiny "pimple" of EM (extraneous metal) somewhere on a coin and declare to all around that the coin was a counterfeit.
There is no way to tell anything about the design of the letters, arrows, etc. on this coin due to the crappy image!
Now unless I'm really confused, I thought you were a Trade dollar specialist and I'm waiting for you to reveal why this discussion got started. If not I apologize for asking your opinion. So, in your opinion, Is the coin good or bad and what did you wish us to learn from your post? Thanks.
L'Oréal
Collector, occasional seller
Yes. It could be. That's why we need better images.
make it a poll and we will find out
Yes. It might even be more educational.
You interpreted my comments as a snipe at you. I did not mean my initial post to be a snipe. Rather, I think threads like this possess the potential to be educational and interesting so as long as we have meaningful photos so that we can have a real discussion.
I'm squinting really hard, but I can't convince myself that there is a dot after the E of FINE. That makes me lean towards fake but the photos are so bad that I can't be sure.