What if you saw a really nice OGH coin in an auction that you wanted/needed...

WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

And you either didn't bid or were outbid.

The coin was purchased by a flipper and appeared for sale one grade higher in fresh plastic a month later.

Would you purchase the coin for twice as much money?

Walking Liberty Sets

"The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well" Ralph Waldo Emerson

Comments

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I wanted it, I'd buy it. It doesn't need a slab or sticker for me to decide.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For us old guys who are "challenged"...

    What is OGH? Original first generation PCGS holder?

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if you didn't bid, you missed out and probably didn't want it very much to begin with.

    if you were outbid, then why would you pay even more, when you weren't willing to pay enough in the first place?

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    For us old guys who are "challenged"...

    What is OGH? Original first generation PCGS holder?

    PCGS Old Green Holder.

    Walking Liberty Sets

    "The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well" Ralph Waldo Emerson
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great question. As you know, many of these are under graded by today's standards. So, if I wanted the coin and the new grade was accurate by my standards, I 'd buy it.

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,664 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 2,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd almost have to default to :the coin was undergraded, now it may be overgraded.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where it lived before isn't really relevant to me. I'm sure that you and I own many, many coins that were in other holders at different grades than they are now. Ignorance is bliss.

    Evaluate the coin based on what it looks like NOW. It's either acceptable to you in its current holder at its current price or it isn't.

    I once oogled a gorgeous 27-S Peace dollar in a dealer's case. It was a fresh sale to him and hadn't made a trip to the bean people yet. It was in an MS65 holder. I had a chance to buy it at a significant premium to an average 27-S, but passed. A couple of weeks later I saw it again, now wearing a green sticker, and I swallowed hard and paid an even higher price to buy it. I simply couldn't stop thinking about it.

    Before I sold my set it upgraded to 65+, which made it almost a top-pop coin and more than doubled its book value. Knowing when to step up for the right coins is a delicate science.

    Your coin might still be under-graded. Only you can make the call.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Likely not. I like the old holders unless they're in bad condition

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chances are it’s not really worth double for one grading point higher. In most cases I have seen the OGL coin was very nice for the grade, but not worthy on any more than a +.

    In the old days when prices doubled for one grading point, it was hard to get that point. Now, it seems to be easier.

    If I saw that it was the same coin, and didn’t get it the second time, I’m 99% sure I would out in that auction.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible.
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ...it’s not the grade change with new clothes as much as it is the twice as much part...so Hell No! ;)

    Erik
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    ...it’s not the grade change with new clothes as much as it is the twice as much part...so Hell No! ;)

    What if the "twice as much" price was such that you knew you could flip the coin for a profit? My point is that "twice as much" is largely meaningless, without additional information, such as current fair market value/sales records/bids, etc.

    Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would kick myself and move on.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    ...it’s not the grade change with new clothes as much as it is the twice as much part...so Hell No! ;)

    What if the "twice as much" price was such that you knew you could flip the coin for a profit? My point is that "twice as much" is largely meaningless, without additional information, such as current fair market value/sales records/bids, etc.

    ...fair enough...but I can’t live with twice as much no matter what the situation (unless my life is on the line)...It’s never smart to chase anything IMHO...if it already got away from me the first time then it’s my fault and that already hurts enough. I probably would check back in 6 months and if the coin was still up for sale then make an offer that I can live with. I know there isn’t very much meat on the bones for you folks that make a living in this world so you gotta do what you gotta do bro, I Respect that. I also Respect you ;)

    Erik
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 28,866 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would depend on what twice as much money meant?

    $300 now $600 sure... $30K now $60K probably not.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:

    @MFeld said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    ...it’s not the grade change with new clothes as much as it is the twice as much part...so Hell No! ;)

    What if the "twice as much" price was such that you knew you could flip the coin for a profit? My point is that "twice as much" is largely meaningless, without additional information, such as current fair market value/sales records/bids, etc.

    ...fair enough...but I can’t live with twice as much no matter what the situation (unless my life is on the line)...It’s never smart to chase anything IMHO...if it already got away from me the first time then it’s my fault and that already hurts enough. I probably would check back in 6 months and if the coin was still up for sale then make an offer that I can live with. I know there isn’t very much meat on the bones for you folks that make a living in this world so you gotta do what you gotta do bro, I Respect that. I also Respect you ;)

    Thank you, Erik. For the record, My replies/points in this thread are with the bidder/collector (not the dealer) in mind.

    Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 4,846 ✭✭✭✭

    I 100% agree with Broadstruck, with an even lower limit on the high-end.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shorecoll said:
    I 100% agree with Broadstruck, with an even lower limit on the high-end.

    Sorry, it was just a hypothetical.

    I meant 'significantly more'....I know, I know, that doesn't really help, either. :s

    As I said, it was only a hypothetical....

    It's happened to me 3 times.

    Twice, I purchased the coin but the third time I didn't and wished I had.

    All three times the coins were undergraded and are now properly graded.

    I just thought it would be an interesting topic.

    Walking Liberty Sets

    "The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well" Ralph Waldo Emerson
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 6,624 ✭✭✭✭

    Is this the kind of coin that you only see once every five years or will another one turn if you keep looking? Also, were you looking for a specific coin in a specific grade before you saw this one?

    I ask because if you're looking for a nice MS 65 and this one is now a nice MS 66, you wouldn't be interested in the newly made 6 in the first place.

    If this is the kind of coin you see once every five years and it speaks to you - and I can count on one hand how many of these coins I've seen in the last 30 years - then do your best to get it (that said, I finally found one of these coins I was looking for after an 8 year search; it is now worth 30% less than I paid for it, and I don't care).

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 3,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not likely but wb valuable education experience.

    Creekside Tangible Assets - Coins & Currency
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 18,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    ...it’s not the grade change with new clothes as much as it is the twice as much part...so Hell No! ;)

    What if the "twice as much" price was such that you knew you could flip the coin for a profit? My point is that "twice as much" is largely meaningless, without additional information, such as current fair market value/sales records/bids, etc.

    I agree with everything Mark said, but I think there is more to consider beyond just the coin and the number of its current holder: which price is right, or are both reasonable?

    Let's say the coin went from 65 to 66. If the original price was for a 65, but the coin really is a 66, then the first buyer got a good deal. Maybe it was a sleeper and no one caught its quality (or others didn't see the value in trying--doubling can be a profit of $100 or $10,000 depending on the original price). Alternatively, maybe the coin went for 65 money and really is a 65--its new grade is a gift, and for the coin, it's now overpriced, even if the new price is in line with what a 66 should go for. Perhaps the coin split the difference. It sold for strong 65 money and is now being sold for weak 66 money, and at the same time, the coin doesn't look out of place in either holder.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • rickoricko Posts: 67,808 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it were a coin I really wanted and really liked, I likely would not have lost it the first time. If however, I got beat with a nuclear bid.... then saw it again...I probably would go for it - even at the increased price. When I like a coin, I try to get it. Cheers, RickO

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I really really like something ...... I would not miss it in the first place and of course if it's within my budget.

  • ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭

    Happened to me:

    2 years ago lost an early $5 in AU58 CAC for 20k at FUN as I was the underbidder. Showed up 6 months later in 62 without CAC priced at $38.5k. A flipper bought it and lightened it a bit. Still love the coin but just can’t bring myself to buy it. The coin hasn’t changed (kinda) the holder has. It’s still for sale....lowered to $33k but still can’t. It’s more about the principal than wanting the coin.

    Perfect transactions with: TWQG, Metalsman, LukeMarshall, Oilstates2003, USMarine6, savoyspecial, piecesofme, natetrook
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019 5:38PM

    Hey guys here's my story: first was an early Walker in 63 and I knew it was a lock 64. This was back in probably 2008 or so. It looked better than a lot of 65s, quite frankly. I was short on cash at the time and couldn't purchase it. It later turned up in a dlrc auction as a 64 and I bought it for more. I never regretted it as I have been offered much more for it, now, and have turned them down as it is part of my registry set and I'm holding for the long-term.

    Second coin was in an o g h and it was a mint State 65. Knew it was a 66 but had a girlfriend at the time that was really draining my funds so I passed. It later turned up properly grated in 66 holder for a reasonable amount. I should have bought it but my pride got in the way and I was mad that I lost the old green holder. So I passed and it was a big mistake.

    Last coin was an old ANACS 64 that I knew was much better and I gladly paid up for it as a 65. I know I did the right thing, so I'm not asking for advice just trying to see how many other people have been in this situation and what you think about it. Thanks for sharing in my thread!

    Walking Liberty Sets

    "The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well" Ralph Waldo Emerson
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019 5:27PM

    @Walkerfan said:
    And you either didn't bid or were outbid.

    The coin was purchased by a flipper and appeared for sale one grade higher in fresh plastic a month later.

    Would you purchase the coin for twice as much money?

    No. If you really thought it was that special/under graded and worth 2x to begin with you would have bought it before, no? Put another way, a subjective label change doesn't really change my valuation or desire to own a coin that much. I understand that for registry players the calculus may be different.

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It depends. If it was a $250 coin that went to $500 then I would probably still buy it. If it was a $5,000 coin that went to $10,000 then hell no I wouldn't buy it.

    "If you truly love rare coins then you might feel like I do...which is...F the doctors!" homerunhall

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 5,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I gotta say if you are as old and experienced as you proclaim you should know OGH means old green holder! >:)

    @Insider2 said:
    For us old guys who are "challenged"...

    What is OGH? Original first generation PCGS holder?

  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭✭

    No, and this is probably why our beloved resource our host provided is what it is today.

    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • batumibatumi Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    Likely not. I like the old holders unless they're in bad condition

    I seldom will purchase 'red' copper unless it in an OGH or rattler holder simply for the fact if it is still red and attractive imo after 25 or 30 years in an old holder, it is just likely to stay in the same state with proper care.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019 2:54AM

    Depends on how much I want the coin.

    • Sometimes I have just paid double or more.
    • Sometimes I wait till the coin sits a while and the price goes down.
    • Sometimes I wait too long and it goes down but is snatched by someone else.

    Is one grade higher is better than one grade lower?

  • batumibatumi Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭

    About two years ago, I put in a what I thought was a strong bid on a really nice MS67 OGH '35-P Walker As I recall about #500 all in which at the time was two increments over wat it had previously sold for a couple years prior. Indeed it was nice, and I ended up losing it by ane increment-damn, a case when at least a one increment 'bid protection' may have helped. Any way, I saw the same coin sold at an auction two months later in a new 67+ holder for over 13grand! Beautiful coin though I might have been able to be pushed to 5 grand if I had been fortunate to attend the live auction, no way I could have been pushed to 13 then nor Now!

  • TomBTomB Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I doubt I would buy it for twice the price a short time later in new plastic with one grade higher. Of course, if the coin were $20 before and $40 later that is one thing, but I doubt you are aiming at that price level as a resubmission is hardly worth the time, cost and effort.

    I will share a real-world example that is somewhat similar to your hypothetical question. A few years ago I found a wonderfully original, classic type coin in a PCGS OGH graded MS64 and the coin had fabulous skin, great color and terrific luster. Truly, it looked undergraded to me. I placed an aggressive bid for the piece in one of the major auctions and was underbidder. A few weeks later I found the coin being offered in brand new PCGS plastic at the same grade and for the winning bid price. There was no way, no how I was going to buy that coin in the new plastic.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @batumi said:

    @asheland said:
    Likely not. I like the old holders unless they're in bad condition

    I seldom will purchase 'red' copper unless it in an OGH or rattler holder simply for the fact if it is still red and attractive imo after 25 or 30 years in an old holder, it is just likely to stay in the same state with proper care.

    I have the same rule, but mine is a ten year minimum.
    I got this one a couple of weeks ago and I believe the holder to be old enough to guarantee a stable coin:

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably not because I would still be too mad at myself for being so stupid in the first place.

  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 585 ✭✭✭

    If it's in OGH and high end or likely undergraded, it most likely going to get jacked up sky-high anyway.

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