Well, it does. Believe it or not, there are many modern coins that I cannot find a defect on (even mint made) using high magnification! So 70's exist in my mind.
BTW, I avoid any coin graded 70.
I have two MS70 moderns that have no marks or spots on them even under magnification. They do indeed exist. They were priced very reasonably so I had no problem with the extra premium.
Is there a grade that I avoid? No. Are there grades that I do not have in my collection? Yes. For instance I have no Fair or Poor or examples that are MS 70. Not necessarily avoided, just not yet acquired.
I stay away from anything that grades below VG. If I can't afford something better, I don't need to own it. Generally my lower limit is VF-30, but I will go to the VG if I want it badly enough, but there I have very few coins in that grade.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@Elcontador said:
MS 62. Will not buy a + coin, though I made several in attempting upgrades.
I understand having a minimal acceptable grade (and even a max) and I understand “I tend not to buy <+ grades, AU50, whatever> because they often <don’t look nice, are overpriced, etc> but a hard rule about a grade in the middle of what you otherwise collect makes no sense to me. If a coin you like is offered for money you think is fair, you really wouldn’t buy it because of the holder?
I actually find + grades that aren’t top pops to generally be a good value. Coins fall along a continuum of quality but prices are distinctly jumpy along grade lines. If I can get a coin that is 90% of the way to the next numeric grade but only 20% of the way on the price, that’s where I want to be collecting.
@BillJones said:
I stay away from anything that grades below VG. If I can't afford something better, I don't need to own it. Generally my lower limit is VF-30, but I will go to the VG if I want it badly enough, but there I have very few coins in that grade.
I’m curious what your VG coins are. I’ll bet they’re some pretty interesting rarities.
I never close my mind to any grade. Details/Impaired as well. Who wouldn't love to have a Chain Cent with a solid date, non-porous surfaces but with a dig in one part of the field causing a details grade or a strange net grade? If it looks right given the context of the coin then don't automatically pass it up solely because of the assigned grade or non-grade. Trust yourself.
@Elcontador said:
MS 62. Will not buy a + coin, though I made several in attempting upgrades.
I understand having a minimal acceptable grade (and even a max) and I understand “I tend not to buy <+ grades, AU50, whatever> because they often <don’t look nice, are overpriced, etc> but a hard rule about a grade in the middle of what you otherwise collect makes no sense to me. If a coin you like is offered for money you think is fair, you really wouldn’t buy it because of the holder?
I actually find + grades that aren’t top pops to generally be a good value. Coins fall along a continuum of quality but prices are distinctly jumpy along grade lines. If I can get a coin that is 90% of the way to the next numeric grade but only 20% of the way on the price, that’s where I want to be collecting.
Better make sure that "+" has a CAC; otherwise, it's wasted money.
@Elcontador said:
MS 62. Will not buy a + coin, though I made several in attempting upgrades.
I understand having a minimal acceptable grade (and even a max) and I understand “I tend not to buy <+ grades, AU50, whatever> because they often <don’t look nice, are overpriced, etc> but a hard rule about a grade in the middle of what you otherwise collect makes no sense to me. If a coin you like is offered for money you think is fair, you really wouldn’t buy it because of the holder?
I actually find + grades that aren’t top pops to generally be a good value. Coins fall along a continuum of quality but prices are distinctly jumpy along grade lines. If I can get a coin that is 90% of the way to the next numeric grade but only 20% of the way on the price, that’s where I want to be collecting.
Better make sure that "+" has a CAC; otherwise, it's wasted money.
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I always likes AU-58, I got them at great prices years ago, when no one wanted them.
Now everyone wants them.
Rats.
But I avoid MS 60, 61 & 62. To me they are problem coins, but market acceptable-- just not to me.
@Treashunt said:
I always likes AU-58, I got them at great prices years ago, when no one wanted them.
Now everyone wants them.
Rats.
But I avoid MS 60, 61 & 62. To me they are problem coins, but market acceptable-- just not to me.
It all depends upon what you collect. Sometimes MS-60, 61 and 62 is the best there is, what's available or what's affordable. It's darn tough to find an American coin from the late 1700s and early 1800s that grads higher than MS-62. If that low end Mint State coin has good eye appeal, there is nothing wrong with it.
Here is an example.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
My collecting "sweet spot" for my US Type set is XF45-AU58. I like lightly circulated coins with lots of meat left.
I also avoid "Details" coins.... the problems don't go away after you buy it, and I'd rather have a problem free coin at a lower grade if it's a stopper.
I avoid, PO1, Fr2, and AG3.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@Treashunt said:
I always likes AU-58, I got them at great prices years ago, when no one wanted them.
Now everyone wants them.
Rats.
But I avoid MS 60, 61 & 62. To me they are problem coins, but market acceptable-- just not to me.
It all depends upon what you collect. Sometimes MS-60, 61 and 62 is the best there is, what's available or what's affordable. It's darn tough to find an American coin from the late 1700s and early 1800s that grads higher than MS-62. If that low end Mint State coin has good eye appeal, there is nothing wrong with it.
@Elcontador said:
MS 62. Will not buy a + coin, though I made several in attempting upgrades.
I understand having a minimal acceptable grade (and even a max) and I understand “I tend not to buy <+ grades, AU50, whatever> because they often <don’t look nice, are overpriced, etc> but a hard rule about a grade in the middle of what you otherwise collect makes no sense to me. If a coin you like is offered for money you think is fair, you really wouldn’t buy it because of the holder?
I actually find + grades that aren’t top pops to generally be a good value. Coins fall along a continuum of quality but prices are distinctly jumpy along grade lines. If I can get a coin that is 90% of the way to the next numeric grade but only 20% of the way on the price, that’s where I want to be collecting.
David, I have only seen 1 MS 62 coin that I would consider to be a no-questions asked Unc that wasn't outright ugly. It was an 1810 Classic Large Cent which didn't have enough mint luster for my taste. It wasn't ugly, but it was dull; it didn't speak to me.
MS 62 Morgans I've seen are generally frightening coins, and the MS 62 Capped Bust Halves I've seen more often than not imo are nice AUs. If I'm going to buy an AU coin, I don't want to pay Unc. money for it.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I try not to rule any grade out offhand. A coin I love could happen to be in any holder, any label grade, genuine or raw.
I’ve bought a few genuines that straight graded later and grades can change. Also, what I prefer or happen to be attracted to for the issue or series is another question altogether and my tastes change over time, so for me, I like to keep my options and my mind open.
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
This one is killing me right now, as the only example on the open market of a particular rarity I've been meaning to add is a graded "Genuine" ... and they very rarely come up for sale ... and there it is... and I just can't.
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
This one is killing me right now, as the only example on the open market of a particular rarity I've been meaning to add is a graded "Genuine" ... and they very rarely come up for sale ... and there it is... and I just can't.
Tempting as it is... Just can't.
You'll never enjoy it as a problem coin, so you're doing the right thing.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
This one is killing me right now, as the only example on the open market of a particular rarity I've been meaning to add is a graded "Genuine" ... and they very rarely come up for sale ... and there it is... and I just can't.
Tempting as it is... Just can't.
If it is very low population die variety or date and mint combination, that might all you can get. You should see some of the ultra low grade stuff some of the U.S. colonial coins collectors treasure. Some of it is below the Poor-1 grade.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
This one is killing me right now, as the only example on the open market of a particular rarity I've been meaning to add is a graded "Genuine" ... and they very rarely come up for sale ... and there it is... and I just can't.
Well, it does. Believe it or not, there are many modern coins that I cannot find a defect on (even mint made) using high magnification! So 70's exist in my mind.
BTW, I avoid any coin graded 70.
Insider: I agree though I have purchased 70's and will continue doing so at slightly below to slightly above bullion. Some of the gold issues are a steal imho unless bullion crashes which appears unlikely with the chaos and debt world wide.
Really no 'grades' I totally avoid. If I am interested in a certain coin, I look at it, then the grade given it-if certified, If I agree with grading, and do like the coin, I will consider it regardless of the grade.
If it is very low population die variety or date and mint combination, that might all you can get. You should see some of the ultra low grade stuff some of the U.S. colonial coins collectors treasure. Some of it is below the Poor-1 grade.
Even worse- it's one of those "(X) Were Minted For General Circulation But Never Released; Rare" sort of deals... and man, they're rare... but, as much as I've tried to rationalize it... I just can't.
I'll wait, forever if need be, for a problem free example to come up and make a run at that, rather than settling.
Comments
MS62 can be nice:
My YouTube Channel
I have two MS70 moderns that have no marks or spots on them even under magnification. They do indeed exist.
They were priced very reasonably so I had no problem with the extra premium.
My YouTube Channel
98% of my coins are MS with MS65 being my target grade.
I do like AU58's which I have a few. I have a couple in the AU 55 & AU 53 grades.
Zero XF and below.
Is there a grade that I avoid? No. Are there grades that I do not have in my collection? Yes. For instance I have no Fair or Poor or examples that are MS 70. Not necessarily avoided, just not yet acquired.
I stay away from anything that grades below VG. If I can't afford something better, I don't need to own it. Generally my lower limit is VF-30, but I will go to the VG if I want it badly enough, but there I have very few coins in that grade.
Too many variables for me to give a definite answer !!!
MS 62. Will not buy a + coin, though I made several in attempting upgrades.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I have one 62 graded early Walker that I really like and I'll probably have it regraded some day.
For the early dates I have primarily 64s with a few 63s.
For the dates in the middle I have 65s and 66s.
The short set, at the end, I have primarily 66s and a few 67s.
That was my strategy going in for my optimal grades and I think that it worked out well.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
70 - for all the reasons above. Normally not worth a hefty premium from a 69.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
VF25 and below. There are exceptions, but generally too much detail is gone.
I understand having a minimal acceptable grade (and even a max) and I understand “I tend not to buy <+ grades, AU50, whatever> because they often <don’t look nice, are overpriced, etc> but a hard rule about a grade in the middle of what you otherwise collect makes no sense to me. If a coin you like is offered for money you think is fair, you really wouldn’t buy it because of the holder?
I actually find + grades that aren’t top pops to generally be a good value. Coins fall along a continuum of quality but prices are distinctly jumpy along grade lines. If I can get a coin that is 90% of the way to the next numeric grade but only 20% of the way on the price, that’s where I want to be collecting.
I’m curious what your VG coins are. I’ll bet they’re some pretty interesting rarities.
MS60 - MS62. Uncirculated with too many distracting hits/nicks.
It's like a Goldilocks grade for me.
64 is too baggy and 66 is too $$$
65 is Juuuuust...Right!
I do love a clean 64+ though when a 65 is moon money.
My favorite 2 coins are super-sneaky 64's that are just under by a hair.
My Saint Set
Reluctantly withdrawn. Too controversial.
Go have a look at some of my AU Barber Half's....you might be surprised!
Most coins below XF and MS/PF 70
62 and 63 are some of the best grades for classic coinage. Sometimes You get yourself a humdinger of a coin for a decent price.
I never close my mind to any grade. Details/Impaired as well. Who wouldn't love to have a Chain Cent with a solid date, non-porous surfaces but with a dig in one part of the field causing a details grade or a strange net grade? If it looks right given the context of the coin then don't automatically pass it up solely because of the assigned grade or non-grade. Trust yourself.
Better make sure that "+" has a CAC; otherwise, it's wasted money.
You mean like these?
“Genuine”
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
PF60-PF63+ coins; there are usually too many hairlines for my taste.
Yes, I won't buy anything that is graded "genuine." If the prices goes up, you won't get to participate in the run up for the most part. If it goes down, you still have a problem coin.
Bodybag
My personal taste for a long time was uncirculated only. A couple years ago I expanded to AU58 and up.
There are exceptions to everything, but in general I avoid Poor, Fair and About Good; and on the other end of the spectrum, MS-69 and MS-70.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I stay away from any split or inbetween grades such as G6, VG10, F15, VF30, XF45, AU53 or 55, ect. Im not particularly a fan of 60, 61, or 62 either.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I always likes AU-58, I got them at great prices years ago, when no one wanted them.
Now everyone wants them.
Rats.
But I avoid MS 60, 61 & 62. To me they are problem coins, but market acceptable-- just not to me.
BHNC #203
It all depends upon what you collect. Sometimes MS-60, 61 and 62 is the best there is, what's available or what's affordable. It's darn tough to find an American coin from the late 1700s and early 1800s that grads higher than MS-62. If that low end Mint State coin has good eye appeal, there is nothing wrong with it.
Here is an example.
Ms60 is a weird feeling grade. I would prefer an Au58 or Ms61. If the coins looked similar. At the same time it’s all about the eye appeal.
I try to avoid grade 98 when it's plugged, but I may actually be interested if it's been artistically engraved.
https://www.pcgs.com/grades
My collecting "sweet spot" for my US Type set is XF45-AU58. I like lightly circulated coins with lots of meat left.
I also avoid "Details" coins.... the problems don't go away after you buy it, and I'd rather have a problem free coin at a lower grade if it's a stopper.
I avoid, PO1, Fr2, and AG3.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Details.
agreed, nice coin
BHNC #203
David, I have only seen 1 MS 62 coin that I would consider to be a no-questions asked Unc that wasn't outright ugly. It was an 1810 Classic Large Cent which didn't have enough mint luster for my taste. It wasn't ugly, but it was dull; it didn't speak to me.
MS 62 Morgans I've seen are generally frightening coins, and the MS 62 Capped Bust Halves I've seen more often than not imo are nice AUs. If I'm going to buy an AU coin, I don't want to pay Unc. money for it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I try not to rule any grade out offhand. A coin I love could happen to be in any holder, any label grade, genuine or raw.
I’ve bought a few genuines that straight graded later and grades can change. Also, what I prefer or happen to be attracted to for the issue or series is another question altogether and my tastes change over time, so for me, I like to keep my options and my mind open.
Details
This one is killing me right now, as the only example on the open market of a particular rarity I've been meaning to add is a graded "Genuine" ... and they very rarely come up for sale ... and there it is... and I just can't.
Tempting as it is... Just can't.
You'll never enjoy it as a problem coin, so you're doing the right thing.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
If it is very low population die variety or date and mint combination, that might all you can get. You should see some of the ultra low grade stuff some of the U.S. colonial coins collectors treasure. Some of it is below the Poor-1 grade.
"Genuine" is better than "not Genuine"
For circulated material, VF20 is usually the bottom for me. I just prefer a little more meat on my circs.
For mint state material, I rarely go below MS63. Even in 63, it’s difficult to find desirable examples.
Dave
Insider: I agree though I have purchased 70's and will continue doing so at slightly below to slightly above bullion. Some of the gold issues are a steal imho unless bullion crashes which appears unlikely with the chaos and debt world wide.
Really no 'grades' I totally avoid. If I am interested in a certain coin, I look at it, then the grade given it-if certified, If I agree with grading, and do like the coin, I will consider it regardless of the grade.
Totally depends on the coin, but I too avoid anything with details.
Even worse- it's one of those "(X) Were Minted For General Circulation But Never Released; Rare" sort of deals... and man, they're rare... but, as much as I've tried to rationalize it... I just can't.
I'll wait, forever if need be, for a problem free example to come up and make a run at that, rather than settling.