An Ebay buyer to avoid like the plague...***Update in first post***

mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 15, 2019 3:36PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I finally got hit by a buyer from hell. You may want to block this guy; no, you will want to block him, he's a real classic. Here is how things unfolded. This is a PCGS certified coin, BIN $2675, BTW:

  • Buyer makes offer on coin. I am away from home, so I don't respond immediately
  • a couple hours later, he hits the BIN button (yay!). I get a message from the buyer saying "I've agreed to buy your coin, now we just need to agree on a price" Huh? I message him back thru Ebay and say that I can't send a counter-offer because he has already agreed to pay full and the sale is done, but that I am willing to partially rebate him after he pays. We agree on a price.
  • Before he pays, buyer sends me another message saying he will pay full price if I will Express Mail overnight the coin to him. I agree. Buyer pays. Coin is sent and received the next day.
  • Buyer receives coin and immediately opens a Return case with Ebay, SNAD.
  • I message buyer telling him he will receive a full refund when I receive the coin back from him.
  • a couple hours later, I get another message from buyer, saying he'd like to keep the coin, but at a lower price. I stew, then ultimately agree as the buyer's price is still above what my original target was, but I tell him he has to close the Ebay case before I can do anything.
  • buyer closes Ebay return, then sends another message saying he talked to a friend and that he now wants to pay $500 less. I tell him that I will not bend over to any more of his extortion and to pound sand. return the coin to me and I will issue a full refund.
  • nothing for two days, then buyer messages me again apologizing and saying he wants to go back to the original agreed upon price. I say, "OK" (I should know better, but remember, he has the coin in his hands).
  • buyer now open PayPal case (SNAD). I make a partial refund offer through Paypal as agreed with the buyer. Buyer refuses. He wants a full refund and to keep the coin. Haven't heard from him since...

That's where things stand now. I have spoken with Ebay and Paypal and they assure me that they will support the facts, but until I have the coin back in my hands, I am sweating. It's a big amount for me, I'm basically just a collector. If you want his Ebay ID, just message me

2/15/2019 Update: After reviewing the situation and evidence, Paypal told the buyer that he hadn't provided any proof of SNAD and if he wanted a refund, he must return the coin. The coin arrived today, undamaged and is safely back in my safe. Of course, the buyer left scathing negative feedback on Ebay - my only one ever. A quick call to Ebay along with a very responsive CS rep and the Neg was removed immediately. In the words of the rep "the buyer has contradicted himself multiple times, it is clear that the feedback isn't factual". The buyer had gushed about the coin a couple times in our many messages, so he really didn't have any ground to stand on.

Chalk one up for the good guys. I'm still out shipping charges, but I've got the coin and my rep back. Thanks for all the good wishes, it appears to be over. Time for a beer!
Cheers!

mbogoman

Asesabi Lutho

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Comments

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PM sent.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One of the many reasons I avoid selling on eBay like the plague. Hope it all works out for you. So long as all correspondence was conducted via eBay messages you should be OK.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019 5:18PM

    Wow that is a real nightmare. Can I ask how many feedback did he have under his belt?
    I never heard of using both programs to open cases . First EBay and then PayPal. I do wish you luck.
    Unbelievable full refund and keep the coin. I am surprised he has not asked for pain and suffering cause it sounds like you are the one hurting.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 26,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a loser. This is one of the reasons I prefer to conduct deals privately for the few items I sell. It's like playing Russian Roulette on ebay to wind up with a scammer like this one.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭✭

    He had over 200 feedback, so I figured I was OK

    mbogoman

    Asesabi Lutho

  • ilikemonstersilikemonsters Posts: 568 ✭✭✭✭

    @bobsr said:
    I presume he's in another state. Go to the federal Marshall's office and file a theft complaint. They'll argue, be persistant whether they investigate or not, doesn't matter. Get a complaint filed. Tell them it's necessary for insurance purposes etc, Notify Ebay & PayPal and the customer that complaint has been filed with sheriffs office. It shouldn't take more than about 6 seconds before emails and action starts pouring in.
    Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs

    The forum isn't allowing me to hit "Agree" and "LOL" at the same time... This will work the best. Stupid buyer.

  • That guy is a loser and I’m sure he’s done this before. First of all don’t worry! You will win this! Always start with eBay first. Do not open a case on eBay and PayPal at the same time because eBay will back out and all you have is PayPal to cover you. If ebay doesn’t find in your favor “Belive me they will” you can then open a new case with PayPal and in the rare occurrence they don’t side with you then you can go to your credit card company.

  • Who’s the buyer?

  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:
    Who’s the buyer?

    PM me and I will gladly ID him

    mbogoman

    Asesabi Lutho

  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭✭

    PM being sent... If I can block potential bad news buyers on the Bay, I'm all for it.

  • kazkaz Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man, what an ulcerogenic transaction. I sure hope this works out ok for you!

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am sure they'll decide on your favor for this clear wrong done upon you. I am sorry you have to go thru this experience though....

  • SeatedTonersSeatedToners Posts: 211 ✭✭✭

    I hope you come out okay. Sounds like a terrible situation.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019 9:56AM

    The eBay case is opened and closed, so you do not have to worry about them anymore.
    PAYPAL sounds like they have your back, the persons next hope is if you used a charge card and do a chargeback (oops, I meant they).

    No theft or fraud yet, you still ave money and they have coin.

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He sounds schizophrenic.

  • I want a fully paid for Mercedes for free to, not likely to happen ....you will come out whole

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PM sent this AM

  • Lots of buyers using the threat of a return to bargain the price lower. Never do it - just say the only option is a full, money back return. Also never let buyer call the shots on shipping. This buyer sounds like they were messing with you - trying to get you to spend more out of pocket for shipping that they knew would be a loss.

  • rickoricko Posts: 65,201 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a nasty situation.... Best of luck, let us know how it transpires... Cheers, RickO

  • TopoftheHillTopoftheHill Posts: 169 ✭✭✭

    I had to look up "SNAD"...

    How can a graded coin....with pictures I presume....be significantly not as described????

  • Is anybody interested in sharing their ebay blocked bidder lists? I have 6 or 8 on mine just from people here and ATS over the years that others have reported on. Via PM of course. Don't want any Alan Hager situations!

    Successful transactions here and ATS with: jwitten, Rob41281, bajjerfan, cucamongacoin, Jim F., physics-fan3.14, x2rider, Wahoo554, Weather11am, Relaxn, jimineez1, Ronyahski

  • toyz4geotoyz4geo Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭

    That whole scenario is just bizarro!

    My Registry Type Set


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  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:
    That guy is a loser and I’m sure he’s done this before. First of all don’t worry! You will win this! Always start with eBay first. Do not open a case on eBay and PayPal at the same time because eBay will back out and all you have is PayPal to cover you. If ebay doesn’t find in your favor “Belive me they will” you can then open a new case with PayPal and in the rare occurrence they don’t side with you then you can go to your credit card company.

    How would his CC company or PP help him? He isnt a buyer, he is a seller.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 4,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Certified item, clearly defined terms on ebay, he wanted to change the terms of the transaction after buying. Either he wants the coin or not at contract price. I usually try to put my self in the shoes of the customer as to why they would be interested in stuff I am selling; also it helps to have narrow buy/sell pricing. If you are fishing for the big catch sometimes you unexpectedly get a shark or other wily fish on the other end.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 10,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WHOA!
    I feel your pain brother.
    I wish you the best of luck.

    The bitterness of "poor quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019 9:46AM

    @dan_marinelli said:
    Is anybody interested in sharing their ebay blocked bidder lists? I have 6 or 8 on mine just from people here and ATS over the years that others have reported on. Via PM of course. Don't want any Alan Hager situations!

    Sure would. PM me for list.
    Also, one can block up to 5000 bidders. And I've been known to block repeat buyers who've tried to use the auctions as an approval service.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Alltheabove76 said:

    How would his CC company or PP help him? He isnt a buyer, he is a seller.

    PAYPAL has seller protections against fraud.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 40,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019 10:04AM

    @davewesen said:

    @Alltheabove76 said:

    How would his CC company or PP help him? He isnt a buyer, he is a seller.

    PAYPAL has seller protections against fraud.

    THAT is not true. Oh, they may have them, but criminals have work around methods. I have a situation on Perth Mint bars and the loss of nearly $4K after PP refused the facts and sided with the credit card company's policies. A thief is a thief. A cheat is a cheat and a liar is a liar.

  • TrazTraz Posts: 273 ✭✭✭✭

    Man that sucks. I only sold on eBay once. A new laptop I didn’t need.

    Turns out the guy who bought it was manufacturing illegal parts for guns (lower receivers or something). I got a call from the secret service. lol never sold anything again. Sorry for the OT but thought it’d make ya feel better.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just cannot understand what makes anyone feel they have the right to a refund AND to keep any item, regardless of value, let alone $2600. What a POS this guy(gal?) is.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • segojasegoja Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭

    Paypal will back a seller, but they are obligated to follow the buyers cc company ruling.

    If the buyer complains the item is not as delivered, the seller should be able to provide a response to the buyers cc company thru PayPal. This is where it always gets sticky. Paypal will never let you see the correspondence.

    In most cases the seller will loose when the cc company is involved. I just hope for the sellers sake that PP seller protection kicks in.

    Please keep us posted.

    JMSCoins Website Link


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  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @davewesen said:

    @Alltheabove76 said:

    How would his CC company or PP help him? He isnt a buyer, he is a seller.

    PAYPAL has seller protections against fraud.

    THAT is not true. Oh, they may have them, but criminals have work around methods. I have a situation on Perth Mint bars and the loss of nearly $4K after PP refused the facts and sided with the credit card company's policies. A thief is a thief. A cheat is a cheat and a liar is a liar.

    Paypal can only fight a chargeback (and they have done it for me by providing info to the CC co.) but they cannot stop a CC chargeback. There are time when they have made a seller whole even after losing a chargeback case. CC companies, without hardcore evidence, will always believe their cardholder. . . or lose them.

    When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are being ruled by criminals.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wouldn't ebay messages be proof the guy received the item?

    $2600 would be enough to involve their local police if they do a charge back.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anonymity empowers con artists. I agree, file a police report with the appropriate l/e agency. Breathe. Peace Roy

  • mach1nemach1ne Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm still not over the SNAD that was opened against me because the buyer didn't agree with PCGS's grade. eBay sided with him because they don't understand their own policies.

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 21,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2019 5:29PM

    Sorry to say but the buyer showed his hand when he started "negotiating" after the sale.

    I once was "negotiating" with an Ebay buyer before a sale, which is fine. The guy made a few snarky comments about it, but i let it go. I finally came down to $600. He then counters with an offer of $599.99 - I then not only declined the offer but blocked him. Enough was enough.

    I really should have blocked him right after his first snarky comment...and I now do that with all buyers who behave that way.

    I've got no tolerance for aggravating personality types such as this when I'm conducting business. I think that they must get pleasure out of being a nuisance. Well they can get their kicks somewhere else, not with me.

    Sadly as you're finding out the hard way, that nuisance factor with these jerks often occurs even after the sale in some way, shape or form.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 21,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    Paypal will back a seller, but they are obligated to follow the buyers cc company ruling.

    If the buyer complains the item is not as delivered, the seller should be able to provide a response to the buyers cc company thru PayPal. This is where it always gets sticky. Paypal will never let you see the correspondence.

    In most cases the seller will loose when the cc company is involved. I just hope for the sellers sake that PP seller protection kicks in.

    Please keep us posted.

    <<< In most cases the seller will loose when the cc company is involved. >>>

    I guess then I've been pretty lucky.

    I have over 17k Ebay sales, and perhaps around ten buyers who filed cc charge backs, and I've won every single one of them.

    But it's not an accident. I carefully follow all the Ebay and PayPal rules, and when a claim is submitted, i concisely provide my side of the story including all pertinent information, and never accuse the buyer of being a scammer, even though i may think that he is.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 4,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I try not to get peevish in business transactions as customers come in all stripes and a sign of a grown up is to show tolerance up to a point looking maybe at the likely intent. I have had potential customers bash a grading service and if they are misinformed, just being rude, uneducated and discriminatory I have to realize that perceptions vary. Once there is a pattern of intimidation it is likely a different story. I have to realize I can be a "tough customer". It sounds like this example is engaging in fraud.

  • I checked out this seller on eBay and this person is selling coins and watches. The OP might want to check those listings and make sure the coin or coins in question are not listed.

  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:
    I checked out this seller on eBay and this person is selling coins and watches. The OP might want to check those listings and make sure the coin or coins in question are not listed.

    Thanks. Mine's not there, but I'll keep an eye out.

    mbogoman

    Asesabi Lutho

  • @KindaNewish said:

    @blackhorse360 said:
    I checked out this seller on eBay and this person is selling coins and watches. The OP might want to check those listings and make sure the coin or coins in question are not listed.

    Cool, he is a seller too!
    I am kind of fed up with ebay, and I dont mind if I get tossed off the platform. PM me his id, I will return the favor.

    I knew I was goona like this place!

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 10,099 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a horror story !!! :'(

    Timbuk3
  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 304 ✭✭✭

    A determined thief is hard to stop.

    I would have ended things at bullet point #4 and demanded return of the coin...

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blocked.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 7/2013- 1983 No-S Proof Set
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 18,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    blocked here as well

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