An Ebay buyer to avoid like the plague...***Update in first post***
I finally got hit by a buyer from hell. You may want to block this guy; no, you will want to block him, he's a real classic. Here is how things unfolded. This is a PCGS certified coin, BIN $2675, BTW:
- Buyer makes offer on coin. I am away from home, so I don't respond immediately
- a couple hours later, he hits the BIN button (yay!). I get a message from the buyer saying "I've agreed to buy your coin, now we just need to agree on a price" Huh? I message him back thru Ebay and say that I can't send a counter-offer because he has already agreed to pay full and the sale is done, but that I am willing to partially rebate him after he pays. We agree on a price.
- Before he pays, buyer sends me another message saying he will pay full price if I will Express Mail overnight the coin to him. I agree. Buyer pays. Coin is sent and received the next day.
- Buyer receives coin and immediately opens a Return case with Ebay, SNAD.
- I message buyer telling him he will receive a full refund when I receive the coin back from him.
- a couple hours later, I get another message from buyer, saying he'd like to keep the coin, but at a lower price. I stew, then ultimately agree as the buyer's price is still above what my original target was, but I tell him he has to close the Ebay case before I can do anything.
- buyer closes Ebay return, then sends another message saying he talked to a friend and that he now wants to pay $500 less. I tell him that I will not bend over to any more of his extortion and to pound sand. return the coin to me and I will issue a full refund.
- nothing for two days, then buyer messages me again apologizing and saying he wants to go back to the original agreed upon price. I say, "OK" (I should know better, but remember, he has the coin in his hands).
- buyer now open PayPal case (SNAD). I make a partial refund offer through Paypal as agreed with the buyer. Buyer refuses. He wants a full refund and to keep the coin. Haven't heard from him since...
That's where things stand now. I have spoken with Ebay and Paypal and they assure me that they will support the facts, but until I have the coin back in my hands, I am sweating. It's a big amount for me, I'm basically just a collector. If you want his Ebay ID, just message me
2/15/2019 Update: After reviewing the situation and evidence, Paypal told the buyer that he hadn't provided any proof of SNAD and if he wanted a refund, he must return the coin. The coin arrived today, undamaged and is safely back in my safe. Of course, the buyer left scathing negative feedback on Ebay - my only one ever. A quick call to Ebay along with a very responsive CS rep and the Neg was removed immediately. In the words of the rep "the buyer has contradicted himself multiple times, it is clear that the feedback isn't factual". The buyer had gushed about the coin a couple times in our many messages, so he really didn't have any ground to stand on.
Chalk one up for the good guys. I'm still out shipping charges, but I've got the coin and my rep back. Thanks for all the good wishes, it appears to be over. Time for a beer!
Cheers!
mbogoman
Asesabi Lutho
Comments
PM sent.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
One of the many reasons I avoid selling on eBay like the plague. Hope it all works out for you. So long as all correspondence was conducted via eBay messages you should be OK.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Wow that is a real nightmare. Can I ask how many feedback did he have under his belt?
I never heard of using both programs to open cases . First EBay and then PayPal. I do wish you luck.
Unbelievable full refund and keep the coin. I am surprised he has not asked for pain and suffering cause it sounds like you are the one hurting.
What a loser. This is one of the reasons I prefer to conduct deals privately for the few items I sell. It's like playing Russian Roulette on ebay to wind up with a scammer like this one.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
He had over 200 feedback, so I figured I was OK
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I presume he's in another state. Go to the federal Marshall's office and file a theft complaint. They'll argue, be persistant whether they investigate or not, doesn't matter. Get a complaint filed. Tell them it's necessary for insurance purposes etc, Notify Ebay & PayPal and the customer that complaint has been filed with sheriffs office. It shouldn't take more than about 6 seconds before emails and action starts pouring in.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
The forum isn't allowing me to hit "Agree" and "LOL" at the same time... This will work the best. Stupid buyer.
That guy is a loser and I’m sure he’s done this before. First of all don’t worry! You will win this! Always start with eBay first. Do not open a case on eBay and PayPal at the same time because eBay will back out and all you have is PayPal to cover you. If ebay doesn’t find in your favor “Belive me they will” you can then open a new case with PayPal and in the rare occurrence they don’t side with you then you can go to your credit card company.
Who’s the buyer?
PM me and I will gladly ID him
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
PM being sent... If I can block potential bad news buyers on the Bay, I'm all for it.
Man, what an ulcerogenic transaction. I sure hope this works out ok for you!
I am sure they'll decide on your favor for this clear wrong done upon you. I am sorry you have to go thru this experience though....
The seller allowed the buyer to manipulate him through the emotional appeal of "loss anticipation." Common tactic. Stick to the original agreement of sale.
I hope you come out okay. Sounds like a terrible situation.
That is terrible and I hope it works out for you!
For future reference,
(1) use the option that requires immediate payment on buy-it-now listings (so that someone can't hit the bin and then try to whittle you down)
(2) don't negotiate after a sale is made
(3) don't offer partial refunds on eBay...for the majority of cases, one should tell the buyer they have to return the item and then they will get a refund
The eBay case is opened and closed, so you do not have to worry about them anymore.
PAYPAL sounds like they have your back, the persons next hope is if you used a charge card and do a chargeback (oops, I meant they).
No theft or fraud yet, you still ave money and they have coin.
He sounds schizophrenic.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
PM sent this AM
Lots of buyers using the threat of a return to bargain the price lower. Never do it - just say the only option is a full, money back return. Also never let buyer call the shots on shipping. This buyer sounds like they were messing with you - trying to get you to spend more out of pocket for shipping that they knew would be a loss.
That is a nasty situation.... Best of luck, let us know how it transpires... Cheers, RickO
I had to look up "SNAD"...
How can a graded coin....with pictures I presume....be significantly not as described????
Is anybody interested in sharing their ebay blocked bidder lists? I have 6 or 8 on mine just from people here and ATS over the years that others have reported on. Via PM of course. Don't want any Alan Hager situations!
Successful transactions here and ATS with: jwitten, Rob41281, bajjerfan, cucamongacoin, Jim F., physics-fan3.14, x2rider, Wahoo554, Weather11am, Relaxn, jimineez1, Ronyahski, Bliggity, SurfinxHI, McGrump (thru BAJJERFAN), ms71, Downtown1974, ad4400
That whole scenario is just bizarro!
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
How would his CC company or PP help him? He isnt a buyer, he is a seller.
My Early Large Cents
Certified item, clearly defined terms on ebay, he wanted to change the terms of the transaction after buying. Either he wants the coin or not at contract price. I usually try to put my self in the shoes of the customer as to why they would be interested in stuff I am selling; also it helps to have narrow buy/sell pricing. If you are fishing for the big catch sometimes you unexpectedly get a shark or other wily fish on the other end.
WHOA!
I feel your pain brother.
I wish you the best of luck.
Sure would. PM me for list.
Also, one can block up to 5000 bidders. And I've been known to block repeat buyers who've tried to use the auctions as an approval service.
PAYPAL has seller protections against fraud.
THAT is not true. Oh, they may have them, but criminals have work around methods. I have a situation on Perth Mint bars and the loss of nearly $4K after PP refused the facts and sided with the credit card company's policies. A thief is a thief. A cheat is a cheat and a liar is a liar.
Man that sucks. I only sold on eBay once. A new laptop I didn’t need.
Turns out the guy who bought it was manufacturing illegal parts for guns (lower receivers or something). I got a call from the secret service. lol never sold anything again. Sorry for the OT but thought it’d make ya feel better.
My Type Set & My Complete Proof Nickel Set!
I just cannot understand what makes anyone feel they have the right to a refund AND to keep any item, regardless of value, let alone $2600. What a POS this guy(gal?) is.
Collector, occasional seller
Paypal will back a seller, but they are obligated to follow the buyers cc company ruling.
If the buyer complains the item is not as delivered, the seller should be able to provide a response to the buyers cc company thru PayPal. This is where it always gets sticky. Paypal will never let you see the correspondence.
In most cases the seller will loose when the cc company is involved. I just hope for the sellers sake that PP seller protection kicks in.
Please keep us posted.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Paypal can only fight a chargeback (and they have done it for me by providing info to the CC co.) but they cannot stop a CC chargeback. There are time when they have made a seller whole even after losing a chargeback case. CC companies, without hardcore evidence, will always believe their cardholder. . . or lose them.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Wouldn't ebay messages be proof the guy received the item?
$2600 would be enough to involve their local police if they do a charge back.
Anonymity empowers con artists. I agree, file a police report with the appropriate l/e agency. Breathe. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall
I'm still not over the SNAD that was opened against me because the buyer didn't agree with PCGS's grade. eBay sided with him because they don't understand their own policies.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
Sorry to say but the buyer showed his hand when he started "negotiating" after the sale.
I once was "negotiating" with an Ebay buyer before a sale, which is fine. The guy made a few snarky comments about it, but i let it go. I finally came down to $600. He then counters with an offer of $599.99 - I then not only declined the offer but blocked him. Enough was enough.
I really should have blocked him right after his first snarky comment...and I now do that with all buyers who behave that way.
I've got no tolerance for aggravating personality types such as this when I'm conducting business. I think that they must get pleasure out of being a nuisance. Well they can get their kicks somewhere else, not with me.
Sadly as you're finding out the hard way, that nuisance factor with these jerks often occurs even after the sale in some way, shape or form.
<<< In most cases the seller will loose when the cc company is involved. >>>
I guess then I've been pretty lucky.
I have over 17k Ebay sales, and perhaps around ten buyers who filed cc charge backs, and I've won every single one of them.
But it's not an accident. I carefully follow all the Ebay and PayPal rules, and when a claim is submitted, i concisely provide my side of the story including all pertinent information, and never accuse the buyer of being a scammer, even though i may think that he is.
I try not to get peevish in business transactions as customers come in all stripes and a sign of a grown up is to show tolerance up to a point looking maybe at the likely intent. I have had potential customers bash a grading service and if they are misinformed, just being rude, uneducated and discriminatory I have to realize that perceptions vary. Once there is a pattern of intimidation it is likely a different story. I have to realize I can be a "tough customer". It sounds like this example is engaging in fraud.
I checked out this seller on eBay and this person is selling coins and watches. The OP might want to check those listings and make sure the coin or coins in question are not listed.
Thanks. Mine's not there, but I'll keep an eye out.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Cool, he is a seller too!
I am kind of fed up with ebay, and I dont mind if I get tossed off the platform. PM me his id, I will return the favor.
I knew I was goona like this place!
It's not a question of being "peevish", it's a question of good business. And wasting time and money with bad customers is bad business.
There are 179 million active users on Ebay. Why fool around with a potential customer, or customers who are a pain in the neck? There are potentially millions more out there waiting to buy.
Any customer who buys from me and complains, unless the transaction was my fault or the fault of the delivery service, also gets blocked.
You want these irritating, aggravating, nuisance customers? Go ahead, they're all yours.
What a horror story !!!
A determined thief is hard to stop.
I would have ended things at bullet point #4 and demanded return of the coin...
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Blocked.
blocked here as well