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Do You Think There is a 1964-D Peace Dollar In Hiding?
BuffaloIronTail
Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
I personally think that there has to be one somewhere.
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Do You Think There is a 1964-D Peace Dollar In Hiding?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
1
Comments
The poll should include the "Possible" and "Probable" options.
I vote possible.
Yes, they exist.
LBJ's family has several original bags of them.
Just not time yet.
You know what bill? Knowing a little about LBJ makes me have to agree with you.
Pete
I dunno........I think that one could construe that the "we'll probably never know for sure" could be considered a "possible or probable" option.
Pete
Somebody needs to cough-up that bucket of 21 saints also.
I'm not getting any younger here.
Stupid hoarders
My Saint Set
After the 5 1913 nickels I’m sure there a lot of stuff out there in private hands
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
Until I see one, I'd have to say no.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The OP said . . . "I personally think that there has to be one somewhere."
Mostly correct. There is one somewhere. And one other.
Drunner
You never know what you don't know right?
It would be great if some info appeared on these coins.
more then likely yes but will more then likely never know
No because Dan Carr says there aren't (insert sarcasm emoji).
After what the government did to the Langboards, I would expect any possible coins to be kept quiet.
@CaptHenway said: "The poll should include the "Possible" and "Probable" options."
It should also include 100% yes!
While I never heard of the LBJ connection, my deceased boss held one (out of government control) in his hand around 1974. He did refuse to certify it and told the dealer if it was submitted we would be forced to turn it over to the Mint Lab.
A dealer friend who died several years ago told me that he was approached by someone who had one. He said this person showed him the piece under secretive, hush - hush circumstances. This was before any of the Dan Carr copies were made, and the dealer was an expert in modern U.S. coins and not prone to telling tall tales.
Since I am going on hearsay evidence here, I don’t know anything for sure. I just relating a story.
Back in the mid-1990s, there was a retired Denver Mint coin press operator who would show up in Colorado Springs during the Summer Seminar. He was in his late sixties, and I don't know if he was actually a student. I don't remember his name now, although I may have it written down somewhere (I have several detailed notebooks from the various ANA Summer Seminars attended back then). I seem to remember him being at at least two Summer Seminars.
One of this fellow's personal claims to fame was that he stated he had been working on one of the coin presses when the 1964-D Peace Dollar was produced. He apparently had sufficient credentials to satisfy the ANA Education department. The ANA staffers had close ties to the longtime senior career officers up at the Mint.
At that time, there was a lot of speculation in the hobby that the coin presses used for the 1964 silver dollar production didn't have adequate tonnage to fully strike up a 38 millimeter coin. This retired Mint fellow was adamant that the coins produced were fully struck and nice in all respects.
There was also a lot of speculation in the hobby that Mint personnel were allowed to substitute an existing silver dollar for one of the newly produced coins. This practice was supposedly happening before the orders came from the East Coast to shut the project down and destroy the 300,000+ coins that had already been made. This retired Mint guy would not answer direct questions about that. He was very tight lipped about that.
About a decade later, I received a mail order from this fellow for some trivial coin thing that I was then selling. I don't think he knew who I was, but I recognized his name and he was still living in the vicinity of Colorado Springs. If he is still living today, surely he would be nearly ninety.
Yes, and it will come to light eventually.
What state did this occur in? See me at FUN and we can decide if it was the same dealer.
A likely suspect to have one would have been Coin World Editor Margo Russell, who was friends with Mary Brooks. However, I don't think she ever had one. Many years after I left CW I conveyed an offer to her on behalf of an interested party of $100,000 in gold bullion. She said that she did not have one.
Now THAT is very very interesting, Skip!
Pete
Yes and after the 33 saints I hope they never come to light
PCGS offered $10,000 just to see one. none came forward that we know of... I would love to believe there are a few specimen's that made it out. I hope to see one someday.
This is the reason why they may likely never surface.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Actually I do, and think for some reason it's or they are in Texas
Steve
the stories given by members about the existence of 1964 Peace Dollars all have one thing in common, they would qualify as Urban Myths. the main concept or structure of an Urban Myth is to contain a reference like "I know someone who knows someone" or "someone told me about someone they knew" included as the basis for Proof. oftentimes, as in the BillJones example, one of the "someone's" has died so the Myth has to be taken on face value since it can't be disproved by aknown party. other times, like the CaptHenway example, when a Myth is constructed and a party to it can be questioned, the Myth falls apart.
Urban Myths tend to be grounded in our desire to believe a certain thing. we all(or at least many of us) want to believe that 1964-D Peace Dollars exist, so strongly that when evidence is presented as to why they don't exist it is rejected. those who believe that none exist, myself included, are scoffed at because we can't prove the negative. it is probably good for the Hobby to have Urban Myths associated with it, they strike me as a sort of Numismatic Religious Dogma. not believing in this most high of Myths will get you ex-communicated by some who do.
I could probably dig up pre-Langboard discussions about additional 33 saints.
They are all conspiracy theories before being proven true.
I have an item that was only rumored to exist before the 1968 BATF amnesty act made possession of the item not a crime.
A presidential order might do it...Call it...
"Amnesty for the repatriation of items of significant national interest"
My Saint Set
I see a bunch of them for sale on ebay and occasionally on the BST.
I could probably dig up pre-Langboard discussions about additional 33 saints
there was one known to exist so that speculation of more was reasonable. also, there was a paper trail from decades earlier which allowed for an idea of where they were at a specific time and provided a connection once they were uncovered. since hindsight is always 20-20 I am surprised the evidence of what happened in the mid-1940's was never followed to the coins.
we don't seem to have those kind of things with the Peace Dollar, or do we??
Hey, Skip. I know someone who once saw Big Foot while camping so they must also be real. Right?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thanks for taking the time to refute those close to these coins without knowing things we have not revealed in print.
We do know the coins were struck. We do know many people have seen them. The only "myth" as you call it pertains to the assumption that someone actually has a genuine specimen and if anyone who has ever authenticated one is still alive or TALKING. I often like to consider anything I'm ignorant of or outside the loop on to be a myth also.
Furthermore, I'll bet some others here have seen one - possibly even brokered one and are silent on your so-called...
"MYTH!"
Possibly !!!
If one reads the detailed chapter on 1964-D silver dollars (Guide Book of Peace Dollars, 3rd edition), the Denver Mint data show that tolerance in weighing planchets and coining does not support the Mint's "absolute" mintage figure. No piece count of struck coins was made, nor was a piece count made of melted coins. Further, the Denver Mint's claim that before and after melting silver weights were identical is virtually impossible unless the numbers were fudged (with nuts, too!).
We have destruction certificates for the test pieces held in Philadelphia, but only a weight of melted pieces from Denver.
Thanks Roger, I never knew that so it's all just a "MYTH" to me!
I guess the Denver Mint made a "myth-take" when they didn't count the coins....
This was a DCarr 64-D which Phil Arnold made a CoinFacts photo for me. I submitted it as a Token hoping it would be slabbed (basically as a medal) but no luck. The Cert No was an archival number for the photo, it's not in the Cert Verif database for obvious reasons.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
What have I started?
Pete
skip, or whatever your name is, if you're so butt-hurt by my reply I don't know what to say except "Deal with it" and move on. you could, of course, reveal all the myth-tique, or you could Team up with Roger and dig up the facts to lead to the specimens that still exist. no one doubts they were made, the question was who has one now, right??
as for me, I'll skip all that 'cause it just isn't important to me. thanks, though, for allowing me to rent the space in your head. I really trouble you for some reason and that amuses me.
Possibly the end of civilization as we know it!
I know, I know you knew someone who had one but has anyone ever seen one ? Will my DCarr 64-D become a counterfeit if one shows up ?
Overseas, I believe!
I certainly hope one exists, I have always loved the story of this coin
Mint mark is a little high for an original
Disregard post
My Saint Set
Well there's a whole bag of them on a shelf in a warehouse in Area 51. Happy New Year.
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Someone here with some clout needs to get chummy with his/her local Senator and pass some crazy bill to get these and some other coins out in the open. Maybe splits the revenue with the Mint after auction sale(s) and be done with it. It's crazy to have such incredible numismatic treausres languishing in sock drawers somewhere, when the collectors of the world could be enjoying them.
The entire Langborg trial makes me have a case of N & V!
Later, Paul.
No. Because nobody is foolish enough to show & tell. Or: Yes, but we'll never know.
Happy New year Mr. Keets. I especially look forward to enjoying more of your posts and those of two other "special" members.
What would be interesting to know is the security procedures in place at the Denver Mint back then. If a worker could bring in a BU 1922 or 1923 dollar and substitute into the bin of 1964-D coins destined to be melted, how could it ever be noticed?
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As a rule Mint's have procedures in place to prevent workers from walking both into and out of coin production areas with coins in their pockets. I don't know what they were in 1965 when the dollars were struck, but when I took floor tours of the Denver Mint as part of the ANA Summer Seminar in 1976 and 1979-83, we had to leave all of our pocket change in sealed envelopes before entering the production area, and we left the production area through the same metal detectors that the employees left through. The metal detectors were pretty efficient.
I happen to have a tie clip with a British half Sovereign soldered onto it. When I got a VIP floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009 I absent-mindedly left it on the tie going in, and of course it beeped on the way out (as did the titanium pin in my leg, which the doctor swore would not set off metal detectors at airports). The security guard could see that it was obviously not one of theirs and waved it through. As I was putting my belt and shoes back on I kidded with him that that was probably the only coin to get out through this exit and he said "You may be right!"
I love a good mystery.... and have long been intrigued by the '64 D Peace Dollar story.... I will stand by an old refrain from the X Files or some alien mystery show..... "They are out there."...
Cheers, RickO
I distinctly remember a Coin World article in 1965 that discussed the report of a few of these dollars leaving the Denver Mint. I was a collector at the time. It might have been Numismatic News, but I do remember the article. The number 300,000 comes to mind.
I knew it would happen.
The chapter in the Peace dollar book shows the assistant Coiner's accounting of bullion from beginning to end. Some, not all, of the security procedures are also described.
There are many stories, but not one has ever been validated or produced a genuine coin for examination.
The bottom line is that we'll never know if a genuine 1964-D dollar shows up until it "shows up." Various marked replicas and counterfeits, only confuse the ignorant.