@keets said:
Two questions:
1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
2.) What is the right holder?
Al H.
The right plastic does matter. The "right" plastic is which ever one fetches the most money. It usually is the highest graded PCGS holder that will sticker with CAC, but there are exceptions when grade inflation can carry the day or brand of plastic might not carry the day. Each coin should be decided on a case by case basis.
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
I guess it all depends on how you define "right" and "wrong." It's all so relative. For many, whatever leads to the most profit is always the "right" holder.
@AlexinPA said:
Didn't someone recently say: "Buy the coin and not the holder"?
We're talking about selling and not buying. I'm a fan of buying the coin and not the holder. I also like buying low and selling for a profit too. All of these ideas are congruent.
@jtlee321 said:
I interpret it as buying a coin in a PCI holder that you feel is graded accurately at a discount. To get your best Return On Investment, it would need to be crossed over to either a PCGS or NGC holder. A lot of people believe that the "best holder" is PCGS, but I think the top 2 qualify for me.
If you buy the coin and not the holder and it's already accurately graded in its present holder why should it be discounted?
Because marketing. Buy the coin, not the holder. If you purchase the "right" coin at the right price, it normally all works out.
I buy fewer PCGS coins than NGC. I buy fewer NGC coins than ANACS coins. I buy fewer ANACS coins than raw coins. I buy high quality coins at below market prices. Sometimes I put them into PCGS plastic, other times they remain the way I buy them.
The statement that initiated this thread "Your coins need to be in the right holder" to maximize ROI., is a general statement that more reflects marketing hype than reality. The exception to that is when collectors with little experience are buying coins. Then, they are pummeled with statements at shows, shops and forums about the 'best' plastic....and that overshadows their lack of grading skills and numismatic awareness. It means - to them - 'If I don't buy the top tier plastic, I will lose money.'.....This of course may or may not be reality. To a knowledgeable collector, it is always the coin. Buying the right coin could bring an ROI in multiples of initial cost. Now, as to what is the 'right holder'....Well, that would indicate one is selling, since the 'right holder' connotes market appeal. If just owning the coin, then there is no right holder. Careful market analysis clearly indicates the holder of choice for the highest ROI. Cheers, RickO
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
I guess it all depends on how you define "right" and "wrong." It's all so relative. For many, whatever leads to the most profit is always the "right" holder.
I expect that he's using the word get like obtain as opposed to the process of submitting and grading. So the idea would be to get it when it's in the wrong [or no] holder and then try to get it INTO the best/right holder, assuming of course that it's worth the effort from a monetary standpoint.
I guess I have been fortunate enough to be unfortunate in life, not having the means to place my coins in same holder. I've somehow have failed to become a hostage of sort. Coins need to be more than mark-free, lustrous and colorful. And many don't appear to be all that mark-free, lustrous or colorful. They must have full strikes, this I've understood for a long time! I may not have secured maximum profit from my coins whatever that is but I have receive multiples of what I paid. And for that, I have been most grateful for the many nice comments over the years and especially to those who have afforded a bit of their wealth for my uncompromising accomplishment.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Everybody knows if coin not in NGC or PCGS Holder Coin will be discounted or not sell at all. Ideally it sb PCGS especially if big ticket or like high grade MS66 -MS67 Classic. This a reality of the numismatic marketplace.
ROI = Profit Margin simply put. In reality this more complex: Every month I close out Sales Journal and Purchase Journal. Sales less COS = GM. GM less Variable Selling Expense = Variable Profit. VP less Opex (fixed non selling expense) = Net Income (not usually a pretty number considering current market conditions). So NI is the basis for calculating ROI.
Buyers will discount offer if any on coins not in “right Holder” factoring in grading costs, crossover potential, downgrade loss plus time and hassle. I take CDN bid (of final product) less inventory cost and grading costs in evaluating whether process successful.
Consequently I am not normally a buyer of material not in the right Holder. If such material in collection / estate my offer reduced accordingly based on criteria above.
For me the right holder is the Coin World slab. I don't even have to glue them. The halves stay together nicely without glue so I can change the housed coin's grade whenever I want.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@keets ... Being a new collector just on the scene and of sound mind. To me It means PCGS & PCGS.
If I had been doing this a while and had some nice coins in the NGC's then I might say the top two because I wouldn't won't to hurt the coins feelings too much. The obvious whale in the pool will eventually swallow #2, its just a question of time.
I agree with RickO 100%...also to add perception = reality...OGH and old Fatty holders and Gold CAC stickers oftentimes make average coins look more attractive to many...
@Zoins said:
Sometimes you have to change the holder after you get the coin.
The right coins will be the right coins regardless of the holder.
The goal is the very right coins at the very right price, but realistically, I'd rather have the slightly wrong coins at the very right price, than the slightly right coins at the very wrong price.
New poster here. I have been a part-time wholesale coin dealer since 1984, with a long break after the 1989/1990 market crash. I am now a full-time dealer after returning to the market in 2007. Rainbow toned coins, like the quarter posted in last picture, are the reason I came back.
I think for the best ROI you must select the grading service that will assign a grade to a coin that will bring the highest, current market value. This requires expert knowledge of how both PCGS and NGC are grading coins at the time you submit them. I was the initial submitter of all the following coins 2 to 6 years ago. I was not happy with the initial grade, or the current value in the holder, so I submitted them to the other grading service. The coins were all sold within 6 months of being graded. The value stated is what similar coins sold for during the time frame that I sold them.
I crossed more than 40 of these in 2014
1962
PCGS MS66RD value 230.00
NGC MS66RD value 32.00
1941
PCGS MS66RD value 32.00
NGC MS67RD value 140.00
1944
PCGS MS66RD value 30.00
NGC MS67RD value 125.00
1958-D
PCGS MS66RD value 28.00
NGC MS67RD value 115.00
1959-D
PCGS MS66RD value 30.00
NGC MS67RD value 125.00
This was one of my favorite coins when I started back into coins. I wish I still had it.
1948-S
NGC MS66 Star value Ebay auction 575.00 (oops)
PCGS MS67+ value Heritiage auction 7,600.00
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I have a full time amway gig , I'm a part time avon lady and I'm doing Scientology too.
So if you want a 55 gallon drum of super unleaded or a gross of paper towel rolls for 3 cents less than wal mart gets or need mass quantities of wild country after shave in a blue glass cowboy boot PM me.
I can exercise your thetans if you need help going clear as well.
But even I wouldn't try to convince anyone coins are an investment , check your calendars folks its christmas not april fools day.
Oh la di da I'm investing in rare coins.
The day is nearly over I'm not suggesting you all sober up there is always tomorrow.
To me ROI depends on how much I paid for the coin. I agree that the holder makes a difference in the selling price, but it also makes a difference in the buying price. I will make up a hypothetical situation. Say the exact same coin sells for $300 in a PCGS holder, $250 in NGC and $200 in ANACS. I would not expect to buy the PCGS coin for 200 and I would not pay $300 for the ANACS coin. So as long as I paid the correct theoretical price for that coin my ROI when I go to sell should be the same XX% of what I paid, regardless of the holder.
Just to clarify I don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins so I can't speak for that market, but I do have a lot of mid/high 3 figure coins. When I have sold some of my coins I have rarely had to take a bath on the sale price just because of the holder. The few times that I did take a unacceptable loss was because I most likely overpaid for that coin in that holder.
hey bronco, can I get a good price on a gross of Soap-on-a-Rope?? they are for resale.
nice to see a reply from the ever petulant outsider. I would ask, how have you lasted so long, but I recall you were already shown the door once for being a jack-hammer in your reply-style. for me, the best predictor of the future is what's taken place in the past, so I can only hope.
@keets said:
hey bronco, can I get a good price on a gross of Soap-on-a-Rope?? they are for resale.
nice to see a reply from the ever petulant outsider. I would ask, how have you lasted so long, but I recall you were already shown the door once for being a jack-hammer in your reply-style. for me, the best predictor of the future is what's taken place in the past, so I can only hope.
The coin game is basically a multi level marketing scheme like amway. All these hoops for people to jump through if you want to be an "investor" .
Its also a tad spiritual . Pray for your investments oh supplicant , In the name of the grader , the slabber and the holy beanist .
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
I guess I'm a folk , i leave everything raw and don't care about "investing" . I can grade pretty good but I have always assumed whatever dealer buys my stuff from my heirs is going to rip them off regardless of paper or plastic.
Grifters gotta grift . As a collector I'll collect and leave the investor-scrambling to those who still feel the need to lie to themselves on a day to day basis.
There is a non monetary value to the act of collecting. It can't be entered on a spreadsheet and can't be stolen by some future buyer either. You coin-vestors are so busy dreaming of depreciated dollar signs you steal the pleasures of collecting from yourself.
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
Yes crackout artists are well known and not an industry secret.
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
My grading skills are not the problem. PM Sent
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@AlexinPA said:
Didn't someone recently say: "Buy the coin and not the holder"?
Many say it but just as many here say it but don't believe or follow it because the kool aid is free flowing. Predictable replies given the place this question was posted.
I find it interesting how a simple word like "Invest" can drive everyone crazy. we all see the word and make different inferences about each. those range from a "dealer" to the guy who wants to explain his expenditures in coins by saying he doesn't care what he gets back for the money spent. I guess I understand both extremes. in that regard, I guess I "invest" and hope to break even or not lose too much, however I always try to get the best deal I can and remain hopeful of profiting on what I buy.
@MrEureka said:
Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to get the coin in the wrong holder.
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
Yes crackout artists are well known and not an industry secret.
There is a huge difference between a knowledgeable and very successful "crackout artist" and Joe who likes his coins to either be all in the same slab or to be in the TPGS slab that will usually bring the most money at time of sale.
'I find it interesting how a simple word like "Invest" can drive everyone crazy. I remain hopeful to profit from what I buy."
Your negligence and narrow minded thinking comes from the school of thought investment means only financial gain. It may be an enjoyment gain or an increase in satisfaction. Not everything is about profit and money unless you're a closed minded coin "dealer".
in·vest /inˈvest/
verb: invest; 3rd person present: invests; past tense: invested; past participle: invested; gerund or present participle: investing
1. expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture
the flaw in your critique, the negligence and narrow-mindedness, is that the primary definition references money.
Comments
I think the color of the Bean, and whether or not it has one, is more important on whether it is The 'P' acronym, or the 'N ' acronym.
Breathtakingly beautiful coins will always go for fancy prices.
The right plastic does matter. The "right" plastic is which ever one fetches the most money. It usually is the highest graded PCGS holder that will sticker with CAC, but there are exceptions when grade inflation can carry the day or brand of plastic might not carry the day. Each coin should be decided on a case by case basis.
I guess it all depends on how you define "right" and "wrong." It's all so relative. For many, whatever leads to the most profit is always the "right" holder.
Didn't someone recently say: "Buy the coin and not the holder"?
We're talking about selling and not buying. I'm a fan of buying the coin and not the holder. I also like buying low and selling for a profit too. All of these ideas are congruent.
Because marketing. Buy the coin, not the holder. If you purchase the "right" coin at the right price, it normally all works out.
I buy fewer PCGS coins than NGC. I buy fewer NGC coins than ANACS coins. I buy fewer ANACS coins than raw coins. I buy high quality coins at below market prices. Sometimes I put them into PCGS plastic, other times they remain the way I buy them.
Here is my latest purchase:
Sellers eBay pics-
My pics after receiving coin-
Think I'll have a decent ROI on this coin? 😉
You know what it means.
The statement that initiated this thread "Your coins need to be in the right holder" to maximize ROI., is a general statement that more reflects marketing hype than reality. The exception to that is when collectors with little experience are buying coins. Then, they are pummeled with statements at shows, shops and forums about the 'best' plastic....and that overshadows their lack of grading skills and numismatic awareness. It means - to them - 'If I don't buy the top tier plastic, I will lose money.'.....This of course may or may not be reality. To a knowledgeable collector, it is always the coin. Buying the right coin could bring an ROI in multiples of initial cost. Now, as to what is the 'right holder'....Well, that would indicate one is selling, since the 'right holder' connotes market appeal. If just owning the coin, then there is no right holder. Careful market analysis clearly indicates the holder of choice for the highest ROI. Cheers, RickO
They allus say that.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I expect that he's using the word get like obtain as opposed to the process of submitting and grading. So the idea would be to get it when it's in the wrong [or no] holder and then try to get it INTO the best/right holder, assuming of course that it's worth the effort from a monetary standpoint.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I find it strangely compelling that one of the Forum's longest tenured members, RickO, managed to give the most concise answer.
I also would like to say that aside from speaking to him in person it is the most he's ever said at one sitting!!! feeling chatty, eh.
I guess I have been fortunate enough to be unfortunate in life, not having the means to place my coins in same holder. I've somehow have failed to become a hostage of sort. Coins need to be more than mark-free, lustrous and colorful. And many don't appear to be all that mark-free, lustrous or colorful. They must have full strikes, this I've understood for a long time! I may not have secured maximum profit from my coins whatever that is but I have receive multiples of what I paid. And for that, I have been most grateful for the many nice comments over the years and especially to those who have afforded a bit of their wealth for my uncompromising accomplishment.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I'm more interested in having the right coins than the right holder, but I have to admit that window dressing helps...
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
PCGS holder. The most credible of TPGs by a long shot.
After that check the coin, not all made equally.
.
But he had to resort to the oxymoron, "knowledgeable collector."
topstuf, thank you for providing fodder for another thread.
Everybody knows if coin not in NGC or PCGS Holder Coin will be discounted or not sell at all. Ideally it sb PCGS especially if big ticket or like high grade MS66 -MS67 Classic. This a reality of the numismatic marketplace.
ROI = Profit Margin simply put. In reality this more complex: Every month I close out Sales Journal and Purchase Journal. Sales less COS = GM. GM less Variable Selling Expense = Variable Profit. VP less Opex (fixed non selling expense) = Net Income (not usually a pretty number considering current market conditions). So NI is the basis for calculating ROI.
Buyers will discount offer if any on coins not in “right Holder” factoring in grading costs, crossover potential, downgrade loss plus time and hassle. I take CDN bid (of final product) less inventory cost and grading costs in evaluating whether process successful.
Consequently I am not normally a buyer of material not in the right Holder. If such material in collection / estate my offer reduced accordingly based on criteria above.
For me the right holder is the Coin World slab. I don't even have to glue them. The halves stay together nicely without glue so I can change the housed coin's grade whenever I want.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@keets ... Being a new collector just on the scene and of sound mind. To me It means PCGS & PCGS.
If I had been doing this a while and had some nice coins in the NGC's then I might say the top two because I wouldn't won't to hurt the coins feelings too much. The obvious whale in the pool will eventually swallow #2, its just a question of time.
I agree with RickO 100%...also to add perception = reality...OGH and old Fatty holders and Gold CAC stickers oftentimes make average coins look more attractive to many...
Please sticker my post.
Sometimes you have to change the holder after you get the coin.
The right coins will be the right coins regardless of the holder.
The goal is the very right coins at the very right price, but realistically, I'd rather have the slightly wrong coins at the very right price, than the slightly right coins at the very wrong price.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
New poster here. I have been a part-time wholesale coin dealer since 1984, with a long break after the 1989/1990 market crash. I am now a full-time dealer after returning to the market in 2007. Rainbow toned coins, like the quarter posted in last picture, are the reason I came back.
I think for the best ROI you must select the grading service that will assign a grade to a coin that will bring the highest, current market value. This requires expert knowledge of how both PCGS and NGC are grading coins at the time you submit them. I was the initial submitter of all the following coins 2 to 6 years ago. I was not happy with the initial grade, or the current value in the holder, so I submitted them to the other grading service. The coins were all sold within 6 months of being graded. The value stated is what similar coins sold for during the time frame that I sold them.
I crossed more than 40 of these in 2014
1962
PCGS MS66RD value 230.00
NGC MS66RD value 32.00
1941
PCGS MS66RD value 32.00
NGC MS67RD value 140.00
1944
PCGS MS66RD value 30.00
NGC MS67RD value 125.00
1958-D
PCGS MS66RD value 28.00
NGC MS67RD value 115.00
1959-D
PCGS MS66RD value 30.00
NGC MS67RD value 125.00
This was one of my favorite coins when I started back into coins. I wish I still had it.
1948-S
NGC MS66 Star value Ebay auction 575.00 (oops)
PCGS MS67+ value Heritiage auction 7,600.00
What is the best holder for sports cards?
Yet more reasons not to COLLECT coins.
I have a full time amway gig , I'm a part time avon lady and I'm doing Scientology too.
So if you want a 55 gallon drum of super unleaded or a gross of paper towel rolls for 3 cents less than wal mart gets or need mass quantities of wild country after shave in a blue glass cowboy boot PM me.
I can exercise your thetans if you need help going clear as well.
But even I wouldn't try to convince anyone coins are an investment
, check your calendars folks its christmas not april fools day.
Oh la di da I'm investing in rare coins.
The day is nearly over I'm not suggesting you all sober up there is always tomorrow.
Carry on with your investing jibber jabber
To me ROI depends on how much I paid for the coin. I agree that the holder makes a difference in the selling price, but it also makes a difference in the buying price. I will make up a hypothetical situation. Say the exact same coin sells for $300 in a PCGS holder, $250 in NGC and $200 in ANACS. I would not expect to buy the PCGS coin for 200 and I would not pay $300 for the ANACS coin. So as long as I paid the correct theoretical price for that coin my ROI when I go to sell should be the same XX% of what I paid, regardless of the holder.
Just to clarify I don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins so I can't speak for that market, but I do have a lot of mid/high 3 figure coins. When I have sold some of my coins I have rarely had to take a bath on the sale price just because of the holder. The few times that I did take a unacceptable loss was because I most likely overpaid for that coin in that holder.
@keets asked:
"Two questions:
1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
2.) What is the right holder?"
Easy answer because even a person who does not sell coins but is a member here knows it is old news.
Now my question: How did this thread last this long? YAWN!
Easy answer, because some idiot (me) bothered to post more. LOL!
Admitting you have a problem is the first step on your road to recovery
Oh I disagree...Time to smile.
The money changers are getting their tables kicked over again.
So far as true collectors go, we preceded them & will outlast them.
My Saint Set
hey bronco, can I get a good price on a gross of Soap-on-a-Rope?? they are for resale.
nice to see a reply from the ever petulant outsider. I would ask, how have you lasted so long, but I recall you were already shown the door once for being a jack-hammer in your reply-style. for me, the best predictor of the future is what's taken place in the past, so I can only hope.
The coin game is basically a multi level marketing scheme like amway. All these hoops for people to jump through if you want to be an "investor" .
Its also a tad spiritual . Pray for your investments oh supplicant , In the name of the grader , the slabber and the holy beanist .
The savior in this case , is JA not JC
Oh bravo...
Try hearing these words in Gregorian chant.
My Saint Set
The problem with this is that in the many years I have been collecting, I have only been able to cross one coin into the 'right' holder at the same grade, and the monetary effect of this was not material. I don't imagine most collectors have a better track record with this than I do.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Brush up on your grading skills. i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade. Then, ONLY send a second or lower tier coin to a major service RAW.
I post this advice from many dozens of first person stories I've heard.
I guess I'm a folk , i leave everything raw and don't care about "investing" . I can grade pretty good but I have always assumed whatever dealer buys my stuff from my heirs is going to rip them off regardless of paper or plastic.
Grifters gotta grift . As a collector I'll collect and leave the investor-scrambling to those who still feel the need to lie to themselves on a day to day basis.
There is a non monetary value to the act of collecting. It can't be entered on a spreadsheet and can't be stolen by some future buyer either. You coin-vestors are so busy dreaming of depreciated dollar signs you steal the pleasures of collecting from yourself.
you have met the enemy , and it is yourself
Yes crackout artists are well known and not an industry secret.
My grading skills are not the problem. PM Sent
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
i know folks who can look at a coin in a major TPGS and hit the identical grade.>
>
How hard can that be when the grade is right there on the label?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Many say it but just as many here say it but don't believe or follow it because the kool aid is free flowing. Predictable replies given the place this question was posted.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I find it interesting how a simple word like "Invest" can drive everyone crazy. we all see the word and make different inferences about each. those range from a "dealer" to the guy who wants to explain his expenditures in coins by saying he doesn't care what he gets back for the money spent. I guess I understand both extremes. in that regard, I guess I "invest" and hope to break even or not lose too much, however I always try to get the best deal I can and remain hopeful of profiting on what I buy.
There is a huge difference between a knowledgeable and very successful "crackout artist" and Joe who likes his coins to either be all in the same slab or to be in the TPGS slab that will usually bring the most money at time of sale.
LOL, you cover the grade.
I wish you would post what was in your PM (minus the names) as that would generate a long, informative, and very exciting discussion.
Agree! Spectacularly well played!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Well played.
Smitten with DBLCs.
'I find it interesting how a simple word like "Invest" can drive everyone crazy. I remain hopeful to profit from what I buy."
Your negligence and narrow minded thinking comes from the school of thought investment means only financial gain. It may be an enjoyment gain or an increase in satisfaction. Not everything is about profit and money unless you're a closed minded coin "dealer".
in·vest /inˈvest/
verb: invest; 3rd person present: invests; past tense: invested; past participle: invested; gerund or present participle: investing
1. expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture
the flaw in your critique, the negligence and narrow-mindedness, is that the primary definition references money.