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"Your coins need to be in the right holder" to maximize ROI.

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Two questions:
1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
2.) What is the right holder?

Al H.

«13

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does ROI mean rate of return? Also, when you state holder do you mean slab? Those are my two questions (keeping with the theme of this thread).

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So PCGS is the right plastic. What is the wrong plastic? All others, or just some of em?
    Nice to see Keets asking intelligent questions again.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Two questions:
    1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
    2.) What is the right holder?

    Al H.

    2,) The right [correct, legal, happy, appreciative,] holder....... is the person that owns the coin :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wassamatta with Leuchtturm? Or similar in a pinch. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Even the "right" ...plastic.... then needs a celluloid patch to mean anything.

    Rotten situation. I really really really really HATE celluloid. :#

    Free yourself and collect only major error coins, no celluloid involved :DB)>:)

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    ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :*

    @topstuf said:
    Y'know what just occurred to me.
    How I regard those who consider anyone not baptized to be headed for hell.

    Close analogy I fear. :'(:#:(

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As the "HighLander" would say,,,,,,,

    "There can be only one"

    And we all know who the "ONE" is.

    GrandAm :)
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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope we didn't lose Keets again.
    :(

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I interpret it as buying a coin in a PCI holder that you feel is graded accurately at a discount. To get your best Return On Investment, it would need to be crossed over to either a PCGS or NGC holder. A lot of people believe that the "best holder" is PCGS, but I think the top 2 qualify for me.

    Another example would be finding an unattributed variety already in a graded holder. To get your best Return On Investment, it would need to be sent in for attribution.

    Justin Lee Numismatic Photography



    image
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    HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a hard one. Since, I have no plans in selling during my lifetime then my expectation of a return is zero.

    So taking this further, that means the type of holder would be of no consequence.

    Hmm...

    Oh well, I collect what I like.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Return on WHAT? :D

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

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    CCGGGCCGGG Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 7:45PM

    I'm sure there are many here that will disagree but just look at the next show or on line at the bigger dealers. "As a rule" (sure there are exceptions) but all else being equal, PCGS graded coins bring/cost more money. Get a green or gold bean on it and it will bring/cost even more.

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "Right" coin doesn't need a holder......Au baby! Get some now. :wink:

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • Options
    divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    "Your coins need to be in the right holder" to maximize ROI.
    Two questions:
    1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
    2.) What is the right holder?

    Al H.

    1.) The statement does not mean very much to me as I don't care what my coins are worth now or in the future. I admit, I am selfish when it comes to my coins and I have them for my pleasure and my pleasure only. I get my ROI every time I pull my coins out to look at them (pretty much daily). The endless enjoyment I get from my coins is my ROI. To me that's priceless.

    2.) PCGS for me as I believe they grade the best looking US coins, in general. World coins NGC has some great pieces. If I weren't OCD I would have coins in different holders. I have one in an NGC holder just to test my OCD and I've decided it WILL get crossed over to PCGS or it WILL be replaced.

    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
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    CCGGGCCGGG Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    Now that's an interesting statement. What if JA got back in the slabbing business "again".

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    The "Right" coin doesn't need a holder......Au baby! Get some now. :wink:

    I used to think that. I now know different.

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    boyernumismaticsboyernumismatics Posts: 473 ✭✭✭✭

    @CCGGG said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    Now that's an interesting statement. What if JA got back in the slabbing business "again".

    I agree that's interesting, but the grading companies currently have their pockets lined and are lining the pockets of too many 'important' people/dealers. It's one of those things we all know happens but don't really talk about. --Deem it taboo?-- For that reason among others, I don't believe they'll go out of business in the foreseeable future.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 7:12PM

    @jtlee321 said:
    I interpret it as buying a coin in a PCI holder that you feel is graded accurately at a discount. To get your best Return On Investment, it would need to be crossed over to either a PCGS or NGC holder. A lot of people believe that the "best holder" is PCGS, but I think the top 2 qualify for me.

    If you buy the coin and not the holder and it's already accurately graded in its present holder why should it be discounted?

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks!
    It's nice to see a tongue in cheek thread turn into a real educational moment.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    PCGS Slab will be just fine decades from now for sure.

    Well it may or may not. When talking about future return on investment, acquisition cost is critical. One would be paying a substantial premium today for a PCGS holder and a green bean than for example an NGC holdered coin with no bean.

    Assuming that the coin is similar in quality (remember buy the coin, not the holder.) The better return might well be the NGC coin.

    Always easy to make predictions looking in the rearview mirror. More difficult when looking forward.

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    If you buy the coin and not the holder and it's already accurately graded in its present holder why should it be discounted?

    Because some dealers can't grade and they discount the off brand plastic assuming the coin is overgraded. Hence, it's in the wrong plastic.

    Justin Lee Numismatic Photography



    image
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    PCGS Slab will be just fine decades from now for sure.

    Well it may or may not. When talking about future return on investment, acquisition cost is critical. One would be paying a substantial premium today for a PCGS holder and a green bean than for example an NGC holdered coin with no bean.

    Assuming that the coin is similar in quality (remember buy the coin, not the holder.) The better return might well be the NGC coin.

    Always easy to make predictions looking in the rearview mirror. More difficult when looking forward.

    You need to sell your coin at the top price to have the best ROI. Just because you make money on paper when you buy the coin cheaper, you may not overcome the "holder acceptability" at the sale. That goes for ANACS, SEGS, and ICG slabs especially. Best to sell when you can say "NO DEAL" GTH! Or cross the coins first. Additionally, unless you are very lucky, very rich, or very knowledgeable, any talk about ROI is nonsense. LOL Forget the investment. If you start young and do everything "right" it will take care of itself.

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    DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018 4:19AM

    If the holder matters that much, you are not collecting coins, you are playing an investing game, or chasing the smoke and mirror (and sticker) dream.
    If the return on your investment is at the front, you need the right plastic, the right sticker, and right audience when it comes time to feed the pig.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    This thread is so amusing. Unless someone comes up with an extremely novel idea backed by investors and loved by most big dealers and auction houses there will be no "new" plastic. In the future therewill only be three major TPGS.

    ...and K-Mart and Sears were the kings of retailing in 1978.

    I would think one could be viable with $20,000,000 in startup capital. Maybe less. A fortune to most of us but manageable to some of the heavy hitters in the business.

    Hell, Ebay, advised buy some of their favored large vendors, could launch a label to provide grading continuity.

    I am not making that prediction, but to believe that we are frozen at PCGS, NGC and CAC is narrow.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @Coinstartled said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    PCGS Slab will be just fine decades from now for sure.

    Well it may or may not. When talking about future return on investment, acquisition cost is critical. One would be paying a substantial premium today for a PCGS holder and a green bean than for example an NGC holdered coin with no bean.

    Assuming that the coin is similar in quality (remember buy the coin, not the holder.) The better return might well be the NGC coin.

    Always easy to make predictions looking in the rearview mirror. More difficult when looking forward.

    You need to sell your coin at the top price to have the best ROI. Just because you make money on paper when you buy the coin cheaper, you may not overcome the "holder acceptability" at the sale. That goes for ANACS, SEGS, and ICG slabs especially. Best to sell when you can say "NO DEAL" GTH! Or cross the coins first. Additionally, unless you are very lucky, very rich, or very knowledgeable, any talk about ROI is nonsense. LOL Forget the investment. If you start young and do everything "right" it will take care of itself.

    Agree, ROI should not be in the equation.

    Agree, you may not overcome the holder acceptability of the less in favor plastic...but of course you may and exceed the performance of the current market leader. No one really knows that.

    If you start young and do everything right...you should not be on this forum as no one here to date has. ;)

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    opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 6:40PM

    I'm going to say that little slip of paper inside the holder is actually more important than the holder.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 6:54PM

    @Insider2 said:

    Additionally, unless you are very lucky, very rich, or very knowledgeable, any talk about ROI is nonsense. LOL Forget the investment. If you start young and do everything "right" it will take care of itself.

    I'm far from any of the above and I can honestly say the ROI on my Morgan and Peace sets are anything but nonsense. Catastrophic my better half would quickly point out........lol. Could be worse I guess, could have used those funds for the latest iPhones or big screen extra ultimate better than 2 weeks ago TVs. Thank god I was still adding PMs, they continue to be on sale. Stack on! lol

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    Return on Investment and maximizing the plastic/CAC game. IMO this means the highest grade possible (PCGS) and hopefully CAC. The game will be different 10 years from now, but today this is the way to maximize each coin.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    If you buy the coin and not the holder and it's already accurately graded in its present holder why should it be discounted?

    Because some dealers can't grade and they discount the off brand plastic assuming the coin is overgraded. Hence, it's in the wrong plastic.

    I was going include in my comment a statement to the effect that the person suggesting the discount probably can't grade or has been brainwashed to believe that a coin in any holder other than PCGS has been overgraded by at least a point.

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dave99B said:
    Accugrade, obviously.

    Dave

    Darn you beat me to it as that was the first response that I thought of when seeing this. :D

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 8:18PM

    @Coinstartled said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    One cannot be sure which is the right plastic a decade or two from now.

    Could be someone that is not yet in the plastic business.

    This thread is so amusing. Unless someone comes up with an extremely novel idea backed by investors and loved by most big dealers and auction houses there will be no "new" plastic. In the future therewill only be three major TPGS.

    ...and K-Mart and Sears were the kings of retailing in 1978.

    I would think one could be viable with $20,000,000 in startup capital. Maybe less. A fortune to most of us but manageable to some of the heavy hitters in the business.

    Hell, Ebay, advised buy some of their favored large vendors, could launch a label to provide grading continuity.

    I am not making that prediction, but to believe that we are frozen at PCGS, NGC and CAC is narrow.

    More likely a service will be bought out and the new owners will completely ruin the brand. Happens time and time again.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @jtlee321 said:
    I interpret it as buying a coin in a PCI holder that you feel is graded accurately at a discount. To get your best Return On Investment, it would need to be crossed over to either a PCGS or NGC holder. A lot of people believe that the "best holder" is PCGS, but I think the top 2 qualify for me.

    If you buy the coin and not the holder and it's already accurately graded in its present holder why should it be discounted?

    This is how the coin game is played. It is a great way to get the price down. Badmouthing of what is being offered is an art form in the coin business.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,260 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you are buying it is in the right holder, when selling it is in the wrong holder.

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    1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Two questions:
    1.) What does the above statement mean to you?
    2.) What is the right holder?

    Al H.

    Buy coins in lesser known but trusted TPGs slabs and have them crossed into a PCGS slab and follow up with a CAC sticker.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Often, the best way to maximize ROI is to OBTAIN the coin in the wrong holder.

    FIFY

    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 9:37PM

    25 years from now JA may be gone.
    Who will pay to keep his verification website up and running?

    I could start my own RB (real bean) database now with pictures of verified coins and charge a fee when it happens.
    The new sticker will have a picture of Jack & his cow before he traded it.

    I'll take a PCGS holder with a + over a bean.

    My Saint Set

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