Peacock (PKOK) Ikes
U1chicago
Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭✭✭
After going through the archives, I’m still left wondering what info about these Peacock Ikes is left unsaid.
Does anyone know of any new developments? Will those that know ever release the full story? What is the market like for these coins nowadays? Does anyone have any photos of these coins (as most of the old ones are now gone or too old to see the colors captured well)?
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James Sego knows these better than anybody. Not sure if he still JMS Coins, since he started the QA Check business...
I did see that Kolor Kraft Koins out of SLC are still in business. I wonder if it’s still the same owner?
Lips are still sealed it seems.
JMS Coins is alive and well.
I'm leary of any coin that needs a story to justify its existence.
The story can be told in two letters.... AT....Cheers, RickO
That may just be the answer, but it still leaves a bunch of loose ends. However, it appears those loose ends will never be tied.
As far as I know these are alive and well. I probably have 40 or more coins. They are too nice to sell. Everyone I've ever sold sticks and seems to be put away for a long time, which is why you don't see many in the market
Not sure what other info people want.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
How about a photo?
A photo.
A report of market values.
A name/source of the doc.
Is this an example @segoja
I do not think that one would be considered a Peacock IKE U1
Thank you for the reply!
I didn’t think so; it was just the best Ike I’ve ever owned. I’d still love for someone to post one as I’m only guessing as to what a real one looks like.
Can some tell the PKOK story? I'm not familiar with it.
From another thread on the subject.
The issue is that the entire story has never been told.
The legend goes that a batch of some of the nicest toned Ikes came from Salt Lake City. Quite a few came in a holder from a bank in that city that did a promotion back in the 1970s. Only the bank says they never put any Ikes in such a holder (only Morgans and Peace Dollars). So then it’s assumed that an unknown individual (maybe the dealer from Salt Lake that first sold these coins) used those holders to create the illusion that the holders created the toning. In reality the coins may have been the work of a successful doctor. In the 1990s these coins were being sold for under $40 raw and a bit over $100 graded. By the early 2000s prices for graded pieces had soared as high as a few thousand. Some prominent people bought, sold, and collected these coins.
There are more nuisances, but the above is a quick summary of what I’ve read from old threads.
Here's a short version based on my understanding:
1. "PKOK Ikes" come from a hoard of Ike dollars which have distinctive toning which is highly prized by certain collectors, bringing remarkable premiums.
2. They are rumored to have orginated by a bank employee who inserted various Ike dollars (business strikes, clad proofs, silver proofs, and silver BUs) in cardboard holders originnally meant for Morgan Dollars to be given away as a promotion for a Salt Lake City bank.
3. The toning is rumored to have resulted from the holders, or a combination of the holders and improper storage in a moist, sulfer-rich basement. Others allege the coins were "cooked" or chemically treated to result in the wild PKOK Ike toning.
4. The exact story is shrouded in mystery, which is probably why the PKOK Ikes carry such large premiums. Many were slabbed by PCGS, but I'm not sure if they still slab them. None of these bank promotion holders (or very few) have surfaced, which casts doubt on the story, or suggests that the "creator" takes a few out every once in a while but keeps or destroys the holders. Fun Stuff!! By the way, It seems that PCGS will slab a coin that is proven to result from a gradual toning process (such as these Ikes and the "electric blue" proof Jefferson nickels) even if it resulted from something like improper storage (which was the case with the nickels). Otherwise such colors would likely be bagged as AT (artifical toning).
5. The name PKOK probably came as a result of the software used by PCGS back then would not allow for the word "peacock".
Thanks for the explanation U1 and abc. This would not be the first time I have heard of AT coins originating from the Salt Lake City area. Someone helped PCGS with information that resulted in one such operation losing their submission privileges. All the coins had the same "look". Will post pics later.
Here you go. From ebay circa 2015/2016. Originated from Sandy, Utah. (SLC suburb)
Anyone have anything to share a few years after I posted this thread?
Any new updates?
Any photos?
@braddick
I own only two after selling off most of the ones I owned.
Let me try and find at least one and photo it for you here.
I do recall purchasing five back in the late 80s at the Long Beach coin show that had been housed in PCI slabs.
They all five crossed with PCGS.
The seller, a talkative guy with a full beard and long hair, stated he was from Salt Lake City.
I have since learned he was the originator of these coins.
TRUTH, a member here for a long time (since he passed away), had the inside story, yet he would only tell it in bits and drabs.
peacockcoins
If these coin were sold through Kolor Kraft Coins you can be sure they are AT.
One of the owners toned many coins and got many into holders before the grading companies caught on.
Salt Lake City is good for association.
Can anyone confirm if these are PKOK coins?
Also, it's interesting that the 2 coins I checked still have valid certs.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/81230722
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/81718756
It's very cool that you knew the originator of the PKOK coins!
Does anyone know which bank was mentioned? If the bank denied it, it seems like a specific bank's name should be available.
The biggest "promoter" of these back around 2003 was a gentleman from the upper midwest/west, I seem to recall he was from either Minnesota or Montana. His first name was Tad and his forum ID was Supercoin. If he wasn't the originator of the "horde" then he cornered it very quickly and dispersed it. He seemed to be the acknowledged expert on them at the time and the "go-to-guy" if you wanted one.
After a brief flash of time, maybe 2-3 years, he slipped away and hasn't been seen/heard from since since. Also, Peacock Horde coins have always been limited to Eisenhower Dollars, no other denominations that look nice because they are vibrant. The subject coins tended to be greenish, not reds and blues, and they almost glowed with a neon appearance.
Good to know. @supercoin has 198 posts and 2.3k comments. Hope there's some good PKOK information there.
https://forums.collectors.com/profile/supercoin
I vaguely remember the posts where a story was told in a storybook style that left you hanging until the next chapter was written, that always made it seem like the secret was going to be revealed in the next chapter. But instead of revealing the secret, it evolved into a mystery novel full of intrigue that involved decaying lizards and more. It was a great story, very entertaining to read, but never came close to actually revealing anything. The forum was super fun during that period
Mr_Spud
It was mentioned in this thread.
"I traced down the bank who did the promotion through several ownership changes. It is now a SLC branch of Washington Mutual."
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/1226238/#Comment_1226238
The prior name of Washington Mutual was American Savings & Loan and they did issue cardboard holders with coins as a promotion. If you do an ebay search you can find one of the holders.
Kolor Kraft Coins had a display case in the front of their store where they would tone coins by improper storage.
They would buy a Tidy House or American Savings holder and pop the coin out and send it for grading and then they would use the holder to tone more coins. The story about the bank is just that, a story to add to the deception.
I remember reading that post by Typetone many years ago when I "lurked" and read quite a bit at the forum. Words like "mystery" and "hypotheses" tell me that it's all guessing to prove these coins have a natural point of origin. Things like this always get me back to Occam's Razor where the simple answer is that they were AT'd and the who/where/when of it will never be known accept to a few perpetrators.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/584859/a-scarey-horrid-story-the-true-pkok-coin-tale#latest
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/585009/the-true-pkok-coin-story-part-2#latest
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/585114/the-true-pkok-coin-story-part-3#latest
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/585212/the-true-pkok-coin-story-the-conclusion#latest
Mr_Spud
The eBay handle for the coins posted above was KPL out of Sandy, Utah. Purchased a toned Franklin from them in 2015 that I thought might be NT. That proved to be a false assumption as package it was sent in wreaked of sulfur. They were pretty stealthy, as they never listed more than a few at a time. I found out later they had lost their submission privileges and faded from eBay. Still have the package, and it still has a faint smell of sulfur.
Looking forward to seeing the photos! Thanks!
I will do so tomorrow morning!
peacockcoins
2 and 5 is consistent with what you posted way back 2 decades ago in 2002!
Do you know if the PCGS ones had TrueViews?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/1225233/#Comment_1225233
I'm eagerly waiting!
No one else wants to share? Will we ever learn more or should we just forget this silly tale?
@U1chicago said: No one else wants to share? Will we ever learn more or should we just forget this silly tale?
I think the best solution might be to follow the threads linked by @Mr_Spud and maybe PM the members who PM'd @truthteller and see if they remember what he told them.
It would be great if someone assembled all the info into an article for The Numismatist or something!
"Will we ever learn more or should we just forget this silly tale?"
I gave the inside information and it's a silly tale made up by 1 of the owners of Kolor Kraft.
Thanks for posting these @bolivarshagnasty!
Can these be confirmed to be PKOK coins?
^
Once the original batch of PKOK Ikes was dispersed, the originator's brother stepped in, and proceeding Ikes (and the Franklin above) were "located." They are second-tier compared to the originals.
peacockcoins
I saw that and recall reading the posts that you linked. The truth does seem to be that it was better than average AT (still haven't seen a photo though) that for some unknown reason kept slipping by in the grading room.
Yes, the toning was better than average.
Their method was not consistent so there were variations in the colors.
I saw how they did it and the owner was more than happy to brag about his work.
Any reason that they stopped or didn't increase the quantities? Even bad raw AT can draw decent returns in eBay auctions. With their method, they could easily profit from all the coins that tend to clog up coin stores (like proof sets, modern commems, etc).
I'd prefer someone just mention the story openly-it's basically a fairy tale, so why keep it such a secret?
Who was the owner? If he was happy to brag about it, it seems like he'd want everyone to know he did them.
"they could easily profit from all the coins that tend to clog up coin stores (like proof sets, modern commems, etc)."
This was part of the motive.... to move stale items.
They would tone all denominations.
"Any reason that they stopped or didn't increase the quantities?"
He did increase the quantities and that was when the grading companies caught on...... he got greedy.
He ruined his reputation with the grading companies, his customers and other dealers.
No one wanted to do business with him.
@Zions "Who was the owner?"
I don't want to post his name on an open forum.
edynamicmarketing is still in business and selling on eBay, so it takes a lot to have someone not do business with a seller.
It does seem like this guy wasn't smart enough to sell a bunch of lower tier items raw on eBay and only grade a selection of the "better" items.