Does Drew Brees' passing record push Joe Montana back to second in the GOAT discussion?

CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 9, 2018 4:39AM in Sports Talk

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  • No

    Records should be pre and post 2000.

    When guys like Matthew Stafford break the record, clearly the records have lost meaning...

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  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    No

    Records should be pre and post 2000.

    When guys like Matthew Stafford break the record, clearly the records have lost meaning...

    Good point and even more so as Tudor Electric, no contact tackling rules have been implemented.

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 5:42AM

    Rings keep Joe ahead of Brees, yards be damned.

  • I can’t knock Drew Brees; he’s been great and HOF caliber.

    I’m not bothered by it - at all - but yet another reason why stats are given little weight when I compare all time greats.

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  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 5,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The GOAT is obviously the player with the best fantasy stats. Anyone who retired before fantasy started cant be the GOAT.

    Fantasy is all that matters now

  • BrickBrick Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭✭

    Third.

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    Ralph

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 7:15AM

    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The correct answer is "No", Joe Montana is still the GOAT.

  • @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Not really - Drew Brees has the all time yardage record because his head coach committed to running a system where he’d be throwing the ball 40-50 times every game, he’s an excellent quarterback and he played his career in the most pass happy era in NFL history. Teams threw the ball less pre 2000 because DBs could hang all over a WR with little fear of penalty so long as they didn’t tackle the guy before the ball was there. I know some folks may not be old enough to know what football was like before Peyton and Tom took over. It was incredibly different and considerably more physical.

    That also has something to do with why Brady may not get that record. With the exception of 2007 where it was ‘win every game by air’, I’d argue that part of the reason the Pats have been so successful is that they have maintained a balanced attack on offense. It’s still Brady based with a lot of shotgun draws but it enables them to control the clock much better than a passing attacks. Think back to all the Vinatieri and Gostkowski game winners and recognize that it’s not accidental that the Pats have the ball last but rather by very well design and understanding of how to win a football game.

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  • craig44craig44 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭

    the game is so different now that it is very difficult to compare players by raw stats. Montana may have stats better than brees had he been able to air it out 45 times a game. I think a decent way to compare players across eras is to rank them based on their amount of times leading the league in different passing categories. You can be pretty sure that a QB who led his league in passing yards or touchdowns for 4 or 5 years would be dominant in any era.

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 5,823 ✭✭✭

    Where does Brees really fall all-time as a QB? Top 10? Top 15? Top 25? I don't know but not the top 10 in my opinion.

  • DarinDarin Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Thanks for the affirmation perkdog!
    And the 1,000 previous affirmations!
    You can never be too affirmative, as you have affirmed.

    Collecting: Patrick Mahomes rookie cards, the next great NFL quarterback.
    Grote- Official defender of Dallasactuary.
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  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Thanks for the affirmation perkdog!
    And the 1,000 previous affirmations!
    You can never be too affirmative, as you have affirmed.

    His affirmation needs my confirmation so i'd like to be confirmative here to his affirmative. :p

    Eric

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 4:31PM

    @Darin said:

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Thanks for the affirmation perkdog!
    And the 1,000 previous affirmations!
    You can never be too affirmative, as you have affirmed.

    Well it’s certainly relative to the thread! And tell ya what, when people stop talking nonsense about anyone else as a GOAT QB other than Brady I wont need to be so affirmative on the subject

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭

    I am definitely not a New England fan, but even I know Brady is the goat after his last super bowl win

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Not really - Drew Brees has the all time yardage record because his head coach committed to running a system where he’d be throwing the ball 40-50 times every game, he’s an excellent quarterback and he played his career in the most pass happy era in NFL history. Teams threw the ball less pre 2000 because DBs could hang all over a WR with little fear of penalty so long as they didn’t tackle the guy before the ball was there. I know some folks may not be old enough to know what football was like before Peyton and Tom took over. It was incredibly different and considerably more physical.

    That also has something to do with why Brady may not get that record. With the exception of 2007 where it was ‘win every game by air’, I’d argue that part of the reason the Pats have been so successful is that they have maintained a balanced attack on offense. It’s still Brady based with a lot of shotgun draws but it enables them to control the clock much better than a passing attacks. Think back to all the Vinatieri and Gostkowski game winners and recognize that it’s not accidental that the Pats have the ball last but rather by very well design and understanding of how to win a football game.

    I been watching the NFL since Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw days, I’m well aware of how the NFL has evolved and you are correct that he has played in the pass happy era, but you got to admit he has never had a great defensive side of the ball and he has HAD TO throw a lot to try and win games. Brady was a little bit behind early on, I Remember always saying Manning was a better QB until around the mid 2000’s but then he started turning into a stat QB. Him losing the entire 2008 season and his age will hurt his chances of ever getting past Brees. One thing we can’t forget about Brees is he played in only 1 game his rookie year and didn’t do much with the Chargers for several seasons. The guy is great without question

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 4:47PM

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    But his agility skills are Legendary. ;)

    Eric

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 4:52PM

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Eric

  • DarinDarin Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @Darin said:

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Thanks for the affirmation perkdog!
    And the 1,000 previous affirmations!
    You can never be too affirmative, as you have affirmed.

    Well it’s certainly relative to the thread! And tell ya what, when people stop talking nonsense about anyone else as a GOAT QB other than Brady I wont need to be so affirmative on the subject

    For the record, I do think Brady is the GOAT as well. Just giving you
    a little crap. I used to go with Montana, but will admit
    Brady has moved ahead of him.

    Collecting: Patrick Mahomes rookie cards, the next great NFL quarterback.
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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 5:06PM

    A> @Darin said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Darin said:

    @perkdog said:
    Drew has the passing yardage record because he is used to his team being behind. Bottom line with the game on the line I want Brady.

    Thanks for the affirmation perkdog!
    And the 1,000 previous affirmations!
    You can never be too affirmative, as you have affirmed.

    Well it’s certainly relative to the thread! And tell ya what, when people stop talking nonsense about anyone else as a GOAT QB other than Brady I wont need to be so affirmative on the subject

    For the record, I do think Brady is the GOAT as well. Just giving you
    a little crap. I used to go with Montana, but will admit
    Brady has moved ahead of him.

    All good Buddy! I am always good with a little ribbing sent my way! B)

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

    36 yarder vs the E-A-G-L-E-S! It happened alright.

    Eric

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

    36 yarder vs the E-A-G-L-E-S! It happened alright.

    Not in the final game of the previous NFL season. ;)

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

    36 yarder vs the E-A-G-L-E-S! It happened alright.

    Not in the final game of the previous NFL season. ;)

    Sorry, i forgot Eagles fans just ignore anything that happened in team history before February 4th,2018

    Eric

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018 7:24PM

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

    36 yarder vs the E-A-G-L-E-S! It happened alright.

    Not in the final game of the previous NFL season. ;)

    Sorry, i forgot Eagles fans just ignore anything that happened in team history before February 4th,2018

    I bet Steve saves his cherished 20,000th post for a repetitive 2017 Eagle fistpump thread

  • stevekstevek Posts: 19,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @stevek said:
    Whatever is the debate on who is the GOAT for quarterback, i think we can all agree that as a pass receiver, Brady is the worst of all time. LOL

    Ahem..bulls**t

    Nobody could drop that pass. LOL ;)

    36 yarder vs the E-A-G-L-E-S! It happened alright.

    Not in the final game of the previous NFL season. ;)

    Sorry, i forgot Eagles fans just ignore anything that happened in team history before February 4th,2018

    Little known fact. The NFL didn't officially begin until 2017. All those previous games were considered warm-up games in preparation for the 2017 grand opening.

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭

    I've thought for a long time, and still do, that if Mike Shanahan had come along earlier, and he hadn't've been stuck under Dan Reeves, John Elway would be the GOAT!

    Steve4

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SDSportsFan said:
    I've thought for a long time, and still do, that if Mike Shanahan had come along earlier, and he hadn't've been stuck under Dan Reeves, John Elway would be the GOAT!

    Steve4

    Elway was not far from GOAT consideration.

  • @Coinstartled said:

    @SDSportsFan said:
    I've thought for a long time, and still do, that if Mike Shanahan had come along earlier, and he hadn't've been stuck under Dan Reeves, John Elway would be the GOAT!

    Steve4

    Elway was not far from GOAT consideration.

    Certainly in the discussion - how he got those 80s Broncos teams ANYWHERE is amazing...

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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭

    Elway was a gamer, he actually had some good talent around him. If it wasn’t for that stupid fumble by Byner maybe the Browns would have had a Super Bowl Ring. I don’t consider Elway up there with Montana and Brady.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭

    Elway had amazing physical skills. I dont know if I have ever seen a better arm. But, he is one of those what could have been players, had he not played for Reeves for so long. I wonder what would have happened had Marino played under Reeves and Elway for Shula?

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 16,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as pure throwers Brees is right up there with everybody. He just doesn't have the rings like Brady and Montana.

    Also Aikman was very good also. His numbers would be much higher if The Cowboys would have been a passing team rather than a running team. And he also had some very good receivers to throw to.


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  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭

    In discussing Elway it's only proper we should not forget Terrell Davis. And give him credit due for helping Denver/Elway get over the Super Bowl hump (s) thus elevating even more so Elway's greatness discussion.

    When the lady was asked "Why she kissed the cow" she responded "It's all a matter of opinion". "Everyone is equal,some are more equal than others"."Hey Fritz,keep your finger off the scale".
  • lightningboylightningboy Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭

    Im not knocking Drew or Joe, but when i read the title, i thought it was a joke. How anyone could have a debate about which QB is the greatest of all time, and not specifically name Brady in there, is ridiculous.

  • I think Brees has elevated to the top ten, mainly because of his consistency and accuracy. He also carries himself as a complete professional at all times. My top QB’s of all time - Brady, Montana, Manning, Unitas, Elway, Favre, Marino, Rodgers, Staubach, Brees (can’t include Graham or Baugh because I never saw them play). Could see Rodgers moving up in the future.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lightningboy said:
    Im not knocking Drew or Joe, but when i read the title, i thought it was a joke. How anyone could have a debate about which QB is the greatest of all time, and not specifically name Brady in there, is ridiculous.

    Thus the popcorn guy. The forum was getting sluggish.

    o:)

  • garnettstylegarnettstyle Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭

    I would put both Elway and Montana ahead of Brady and Brees. The NFL has turned into arena league football.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zero rings, but the games best arm was Dan Marino.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭

    Dan was a couple of levels above the competition during his prime. He had two 40 touchdown seasons during the 80's as well as the single season yardage record which stood for around 20 years. I wont say his statistical dominance was Ruthian, but it was in the same ballpark. the numbers he put up as compared to his peers leads me to believe that if he played in todays NFL, He would be similarly statistically dominant and probably be setting records today as well.

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 16,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Dan was a couple of levels above the competition during his prime. He had two 40 touchdown seasons during the 80's as well as the single season yardage record which stood for around 20 years. I wont say his statistical dominance was Ruthian, but it was in the same ballpark. the numbers he put up as compared to his peers leads me to believe that if he played in todays NFL, He would be similarly statistically dominant and probably be setting records today as well.

    I would put Dan in the top 10 for sure.


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  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @craig44 said:
    Dan was a couple of levels above the competition during his prime. He had two 40 touchdown seasons during the 80's as well as the single season yardage record which stood for around 20 years. I wont say his statistical dominance was Ruthian, but it was in the same ballpark. the numbers he put up as compared to his peers leads me to believe that if he played in todays NFL, He would be similarly statistically dominant and probably be setting records today as well.

    I would put Dan in the top 10 for sure.

    Top ten lists usually have 25 members.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭

    Someone commented he’s been watching football since Staubach. I’ve been watching since Unitas. I can’t comment on Norm Van Brockland and the earlier QB so I’ll stick to who I’ve seen.
    Before the last SB win I had Montana as #1. Now Brady
    Montana
    Unitas
    Manning
    Brees top 10.



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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 16,913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018 8:53PM

    @2dueces said:
    Someone commented he’s been watching football since Staubach. I’ve been watching since Unitas. I can’t comment on Norm Van Brockland and the earlier QB so I’ll stick to who I’ve seen.
    Before the last SB win I had Montana as #1. Now Brady
    Montana
    Unitas
    Manning
    Brees top 10.

    Van Brocklin should be considered a pioneer of the great QB discussion. The guy threw for 554 yards I think and that was back in 1951 and that record still stands, he was a true passer and he rarely gets mentioned. Fouts was another good one that people font talk about much either. For some reason I don’t look into Unitas, basically I don’t really get into 1960’s football too much but I know he was one of the best. The game definitely has evolved to favor the QB however Brady is and always will be my GOAT

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭

    Yea Fouts gets overlooked. Even I forgot about him and I watched his whole career. Marino is another. Fouts was really the first with the west coast offense. But comparing QB’s in different eras is impossible. Imagine how long these guys could’ve played with the new sack rules. Steve Young and Troy AI kman would not have 10 concussions and could have played well into their late 30’s or 40’s.



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  • DarinDarin Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭

    Unitas is probably the most overrated. He was good but Len Dawson was just as
    good as him but doesn't get the attention he deserves.
    Dawson played during Unitas prime years and Dawson lead in completion percentage
    seven of eight years between 1962-1969, lead in TD passes 4 of those years and
    QB passer rating 6 of those years.
    Dawsons' career yardage numbers aren't as good because he sat for 4 or 5 years before
    he got a chance to play.

    Collecting: Patrick Mahomes rookie cards, the next great NFL quarterback.
    Grote- Official defender of Dallasactuary.
    Dallasactuary- Official defender of .267 lifetime hitters, but he's not particularly impressed with .406 hitters.
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    Unitas is probably the most overrated. He was good but Len Dawson was just as
    good as him but doesn't get the attention he deserves.
    Dawson played during Unitas prime years and Dawson lead in completion percentage
    seven of eight years between 1962-1969, lead in TD passes 4 of those years and
    QB passer rating 6 of those years.
    Dawsons' career yardage numbers aren't as good because he sat for 4 or 5 years before
    he got a chance to play.

    Namath is by far, the most overrated!

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭

    Dan Fouts was great! The only problem he had was having to keep up with the points the Chargers' defense would allow. As great a coach Don Coryell was, he had absolutely no concept of a good defense. Fouts and the offense would go out and have 400-500 yards passing, 150 yards rushing, and score 40+ points, and still lose! :(

    Steve

  • DarinDarin Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭

    Agree with Namath comment. Kind of forgot about him because I never
    even give him a thought when it comes to great QB's.

    Collecting: Patrick Mahomes rookie cards, the next great NFL quarterback.
    Grote- Official defender of Dallasactuary.
    Dallasactuary- Official defender of .267 lifetime hitters, but he's not particularly impressed with .406 hitters.
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