100 point grading system now confirmed will not be used at PCGS. See top of all posts with details.
Goldminers
Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Lots of new press on the 100 point grading system lately. Edited to link to the articles:
http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/new-100-point-coin-grading-scale-proposed
http://news.coinupdate.com/innovative-100-point-coin-grading-scale-created-by-ron-guth/#comments
https://info606505.wixsite.com/website/blank-page
I know it has been discussed before, but with changes at the top at PCGS, I think it could be gaining traction.
There is serious money to be made by all 3rd party grading services, with re-holder potential of some of the 40 million plus graded coins each, by both PCGS and NGC alone.
The China market is a growth area, and they use 100 point systems.
The scale does not change for circulated coins which is a plus for many collectors, but uncirculated and proof coins will be significantly affected.
I know most do not like change, (edited to add that includes me, because I have a lot of 70's that would downgrade to 99 in this system), but Money is a big factor pulling in this direction.
I can imagine the stress of Top Modern MS/PR70 registry set collectors that may have to cull out "unacceptable" 99's in them, going forward. I can see wanting to keep an Agent 99 around, but a 99 coin just does not sound as good as a 100.
Comments
Put that on top of the CAC hurdle and eBay collecting sales tax and I'd say we're in for a long winter.
I vote no.
I suspect many are not in favor of this, and as someone who has a few 70 coins, I am not too thrilled with it either.
But I would not bet against it happening within a year, at one of the big grading services. The rest will follow, if profits increase.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Would be a Bonanza for tpgs so it may come to pass, but will make things more confusing and I still vote no. Not that my vote matters.
I don't even know how to respond.
--Severian the Lame
IMHO (three times here):
The first major coin TPG to convert to 100 points will either be wildly successful or they will totally destroy their brand and franchise forever and ever. No in-betweens.
The major TPG player attempting such a conversion is throwing away/ publicly repudiating almost thirty years of their prior efforts. Not good.
I would not want to attempt to convert in times of poor market conditions, either. You would want to do this when coin markets are very strong, if try it at all.
Suggest decimals in addition to the 100 points.
e.g. 76.8
I can imagine a scenario where they post both grades for a while on the coins being graded, to see how the public reacts, before going all in with something so extreme.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
There is potentially a middle ground if they offered a discounted cross-over service for the first year.
It will potentially be a bigger problem for auction houses and clients who are forced to look at identical coins with one grading 64, one 64 CAC and one grading 89.
As they say: may you live in interesting times.
Yep, one more way to make the hobby less attractive.
i dont see it happening. jmo
You can keep those numbers as I'll enjoy my hobby raw with grades such as AU, CHAU, BU, CHBU, GEM, etc.
I’m a bit confused. I could not get any support for the + grade for 69s- even being told that the typical grader could essentially not tell the difference between 69, 69+ and 70. But, now, they will easily be able to tell the difference between 98, 99, 100? What gives?
Wondercoin
What a mess. People already have trouble with 11 unc grades, how in the world will 21 unc grades make things better? And a mythical 59 suddenly becomes a mythical 59-79??? Why not make it a 1000 point scale jumping from 58 to 900?
I think what we really need is just proper and consistent application of the 70 point scale.
Why not a 30-point scale - each grade is 1 point apart from the other? This would eliminate the huge number gaps between some grades (i.e. VF-20 to VF-25, etc.) - especially the proposed gap from 58 to 80, which is just stupid!
Won’t reholder and will probably lose what interest I still have.
You're asking tens of thousands of people who are set in their ways to dismiss what they've known their entire life and replace it with a new system. Okay.
Please note that I am not the one proposing this change, but I am pointing out that it is being discussed more in the press and would not be surprised to see it happen someday.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
NO PLEASE
Often time I found myself confused with 63 >< 64 and definitely will get a HECK of FRUSTRATION along
80 >100 
Yes, but I am pretty sure the 2018 reverse proof Block Island quarter I have in PR70 is really a PR99 by my grading standards.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Not for me...CC
It might happen for Asian and European markets first where they are already using 100 point scales.
And increase the size of the holder so there's room for stickers.
(notice I made "stickers" plural. We'll need more of them, too.)
There's not enough fresh young blood pouring into this hobby to embrace this type of new grading scale from the start and the rest of the grumpy old farts just won't put up with this type of change.
This could be equal to McDonalds accidentally poisoning a million consumers with some new Big Mac sauce.
The TPG's need to remember that this is a hobby industry which is just a "want" not a "need" like air, water, & food.
One stupid move and plenty of collectors will exit and fund other hobbies instead.
It makes absolutely NO sense to skip from 58 to 80. That would make the silly, illogical current "line" between Uncirculated and "Almost" into a giant chasm.
If I were going to promote a 100 point system for grading coins, I'd leave the current 70 points in place, get rid of the "line" at 60 so there could be 60-64 coins with "rub", (and ugly coins with no wear below 60) and have grades over 70 and to 100 would be logarithmic increase in Quality due to outstanding eye appeal, usually because of toning, which can multiply the value.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I would think that the logistics of changing all of the on line inventories, registry sets, etc. would be quite difficult and confusing. I don't want to mess with it.
CC
For the vast majority of coins, the space between 58 to 70 is where most of the big money is. The one point increases can be worth thousands.
The new collectors may be from rising economies like China and India. TPGs may not want to miss this generation of collectors.
(Sarc ON). Well, the proposed GAP between 58 and 80 makes it very extremely clear that circulated coins are indeed worthless and invalid! I like that big GAP! (Sarc OFF)
Could be a bonanza for another sticker company. I herby dub thee MS67 a 94...…+
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
The 100 point scale would be acceptable if the grading is done on a linear scale and easily understandable for all. A lay person can understand from the grade the quality of the coin from perfection. Here 58 is AU and then it jumps to 80 for UNC!! Very confusing. It seems any grading is only aimed for the higher grade coins and the people proposing this think grades below MS are junk.
Ah HAH! The crux of the matter!
Changing the points could reduce that differential to mere hundreds..
More confusion for the new collector?
Great Lp. Has been 50 years since it's release date. Am getting long in the tooth.
To be worthwhile to a TPG and its shareholders, the new 100 point grading system has to be embraced with semi-truck loads of new orders for grading services. Logic within the new system has nothing much to do with it.
Add to all of the complaints:
The grading system presented by the OP adds NOTHING. When you take the + into account, every grade that currently exists is just translated, (or not), from the current grading system. Nothing is added, and nothing taken away.
It's kind of like converting from Farenheit to Celcius, and claiming you changed temperature.
Putting two numbers on the holder would add to the confusion. Plus would provide a entry point to drop the 70 point system.
What is so magical about the number 100? Do you need to have everything based upon it to understand concepts?
Show me the objective standard for each of those grades.
Either Sheldon or 100 Pt.
I vote NO!
IMHO.Sounds like a (insert tongue in cheek) great way to promote the hobby and to entice new collector's.Inferring that buying circ. coinage to fill their albums as a collector is a unworthy enterprise. And if said collector cannot afford the higher end material and circ. coins are not worth it, don't we lose potential collectors who otherwise might have stayed in, from the belief that circ. coinage was worth bothering with after getting their feet wet? Then once in the equation they might have graduated from the low end involvement to the higher end, once they became financial able? If the new blood can't be introduced to the hobby in a positive way, how would they be able to stay for the long term?
Why skip from 58 to 80? Why not just go to 80? I personally disagree with the 100 concept. We have tried for over 100 years to go metric and even though it makes sense, Americans have fought it. Nothing like seeing a good old 23/64 drill bit. I see no true benefit beyond modern issues that hover around 70 most of the time anyway. The cost to collectors to regrade their coins would be tremendous. The declining coin industry is indeed an obstacle as has been mentioned.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Instead of old green holders we will have pre 100 holders.............................I'm in for the long run and I'll watch my values soar for my old school graded coins in the next years/decades.
bob
I am pretty sure Joe Orlando the new CEO is quite familiar with the 10 point scale used for grading cards.
Comics are graded on a 10 point scale with decimals. Back in the day, Bo Derek was a 10, not a 70.
Most of the world measures things on decimal scales like the Metric system. So far resistance to that change has been impressive in the US and may continue for a while.
But, sometimes, as the Borg Collective say, resistance is futile.
But you have to admit, the reverse proof and palladium threads were dying down, so why not open up a Pandora's box thread like this early Saturday morning, to get the blood flowing.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I vote no, but I don't own a TPGS where there are millions and millions to be made from such a change.
If the corporate folks at one of the major TPGSs see a fair certainty of an increase in business & profits, it will happen. The wild chase will be on to find potential "upgrades" in existing MS60-70 holders. In no way whatsoever is it about the increase in "precision" of the uncirculated grades. It is about the dollars to be made, period. If/when it happens, the next step a few years down the road will be the grading of the circulated coins into 1-point increments so the whole range of grades is covered. Lots more money to be made!
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Change is most always difficult to get used to but in time it does become easier and feels normal. When I decided to dabble in British Coins they use the CGS grade (20-100) in Great Britain. At first I was lost and uncomfortable but after a while it is got easier to use. The hard part for most of us is our NGS/PCGS/ANACS slabs are Sheldon Scale and if the TPG's change to the CGS Scale it will cost us all an enormous amount of money to re-grade our collections. For this reason I would be happy to see the TPG's remain with the current Sheldon Scale. My guess is the future grading scale will change to the CGS Scale because the TPG's recognize the potential to sell us all new slabs, it is all about the money...
Or coin market end up like stamp market... in the dustbin. The Post Office Department issued so much junk that the collectors, “To hell with it,” and the dealers found so many ways to bury collectors in all of their purchases that the hobby just became depressing.
Gees the guys look so young and now knowing two are no longer with us is kind of sad/depressing.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown