It will be helpful to see the actual buy prices that some advanteous dealer posts. I realize most dealers are gun shy because they don’t want to be out bid. Or show their hand. The Game.
Let the brave ones step forward.
@MilesWaits said:
It will be helpful to see the actual buy prices that some advanteous dealer posts. I realize most dealers are gun shy because they don’t want to be out bid. Or show their hand. The Game.
Let the brave ones step forward.
Given that some are pre- selling at 1700 to $1800, that would put their bids in the 1500 to 1600 range.
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
@jwitten said:
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
Hard to say. At $250 above issue, you're talking a wholesale price of $1650-ish. That means you need a minimum sale price of $1800. How many buyers are there at $2000 for a novelty coin?
I'm taking the $150 above offered and running. But I'd rather take the $300 profit on the pair (if all goes well) than end up holding them as the price slides.
@jwitten said:
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
Hard to say. At $250 above issue, you're talking a wholesale price of $1650-ish. That means you need a minimum sale price of $1800. How many buyers are there at $2000 for a novelty coin?
I'm taking the $150 above offered and running. But I'd rather take the $300 profit on the pair (if all goes well) than end up holding them as the price slides.
The money will be in the PR 70 (with first strike label). Those will be the coins selling for over $2,000.
@jwitten said:
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
Hard to say. At $250 above issue, you're talking a wholesale price of $1650-ish. That means you need a minimum sale price of $1800. How many buyers are there at $2000 for a novelty coin?
I'm taking the $150 above offered and running. But I'd rather take the $300 profit on the pair (if all goes well) than end up holding them as the price slides.
The money will be in the PR 70 (with first strike label). Those will be the coins selling for over $2,000.
If I can pick up 4, send them all to get graded, and half are 70's, it's bank. Heck, even one 70 is a big payday. A guaranteed $250 profit each though is tempting.
The difficulty for the dealers in the past is people want to “easy” money now and commit early but when the issues possibly go for more later, they back out, leaving the dealers dry.
@jwitten said:
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
Hard to say. At $250 above issue, you're talking a wholesale price of $1650-ish. That means you need a minimum sale price of $1800. How many buyers are there at $2000 for a novelty coin?
I'm taking the $150 above offered and running. But I'd rather take the $300 profit on the pair (if all goes well) than end up holding them as the price slides.
The money will be in the PR 70 (with first strike label). Those will be the coins selling for over $2,000.
Maybe, maybe not. And timing is everything. It's all speculation. You are still talking about a $2000 novelty coin. Platinum eagles were hot once too. Now they are just bullion. But, hey, that's why they call it gambling.
The money will be in the PR 70 (with first strike label). Those will be the coins selling for over $2,000.
Maybe, maybe not. And timing is everything. It's all speculation. You are still talking about a $2000 novelty coin. Platinum eagles were hot once too. Now they are just bullion. But, hey, that's why they call it gambling.
According to eBay several PR70 presale palladiums already sold at $2,350 which seems high to me at this stage. I will get one, send it in and if it is a 70 great, if not I will be looking to buy around $2,000 also.
Regarding platinum no longer hot? For sure platinum price died (for now) and many MS69 bullion versions are priced well below issue price. That said, some years and denominations are very hard to find for sale at all.
However, many MS70's of these are so scarce as to be unbelievable in some years. Two of the only 5 graded 2000 half ounce $50's of over 1,000 slabbed are currently for sale at $16,695 and 18,000. Then there are 3 years with pop 1 coins, and 2 years with pop 2 coins that would take even deeper pockets. Many way too hot to handle for me.
Message me your price too! And neither Nurmaler nor myself should be discussing a buy of these again on this Coin Forum. That is for the Buy, Sell, Trade Board only.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Message me your price too! And neither Nurmaler nor myself should be discussing a buy of these again on this Coin Forum. That is for the Buy, Sell, Trade Board only.
Message me your price too! And neither Nurmaler nor myself should be discussing a buy of these again on this Coin Forum. That is for the Buy, Sell, Trade Board only.
Actually, what the Mint should stop doing is making numismatic coins. They lose money on them.
Personally, I'm a libertarian bordering on an anarchist. I would cut just about everything, including the military and social security. But that is quite beside the point here - in my ever humble opinion.
THE U.S. MINT SHOULD NOT BE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING NUMISMATIC COINS
An observation, not an accusation. If you prefer to say it the other way - The U.S. Mint should not be told to make numismatic coins. Fine. It does NOT change the meaning or the sentiment.
WTH? He who profits? I prefer to stay positive here usually, but this deserves a callout. Anyone here has modern numismatic interests, or should. All I have to say. All I have to say. All I have to say. Said
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
@dmwest said:
you just need different mailing addresses, correct? they don't check the bill to address?
Unless things have changed in the last year, the Mint was rather wise to multiple emails and addresses by card acct. Shipping address had to match card address.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
@dmwest said:
you just need different mailing addresses, correct? they don't check the bill to address?
Unless things have changed in the last year, the Mint was rather wise to multiple emails and addresses by card acct. Shipping address had to match card address.
They haven't been wise in the last year to my two accounts. Different email, different shipping address, same cc billing address
The one person I'm NOT blaming is the line worker.
An observation, not an accusation. If you prefer to say it the other way - The U.S. Mint should not be told to make numismatic coins. Fine. It does NOT change the meaning or the sentiment.
WTH? He who profits? I prefer to stay positive here usually, but this deserves a callout. Anyone here has modern numismatic interests, or should. All I have to say. All I have to say. All I have to say. Said
This was a very specific response to a very specific issue. The Mint loses money on numismatic coins. From a taxpayer standpoint, not a collector/dealer standpoint, it is ridiculous that taxpayers are subsidizing coin collectors.
@BigA said:
I didn't know taxpayers had anything to do with the Mint
The MInt is not a separate enterprise. The Mint profit goes back to Washington. That profit is correspondingly lower because they lose money on virtually every numismatic product. They lost $1.4 million on the 2017 Palladium Eagle alone. The seignorage and bullion issues (silver/gold eagles) make up for it so they make money on the whole. But there is money that would otherwise go into the public coffers that ends up in our pocket.
Ahhhh...so the taxpayers get LESS money because of numismatic products but there still is an overall profit made that goes into the Treasury. That sounds different that "taxpayers are subsidizing coin collectors" but ...I see the point except that they profited from Numi products
BTW:
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2017, the Mint transferred $269 million to the Treasury General Fund
from the United States Mint Public Enterprise Fund. The Mint transferred
$250 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer. In the first quarter,
the Mint made a budget transfer of $19 million from FY 2016 numismatic
program results.
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2016, the Mint transferred $611 million to the Treasury General Fund from
the PEF. The Mint transferred $550 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer.
In the first quarte , the Mint made a budget transfer of $61 million from FY 2015
numismatic program results.
@BigA said:
Ahhhh...so the taxpayers get LESS money because of numismatic products but there still is an overall profit made that goes into the Treasury. That sounds different that "taxpayers are subsidizing coin collectors" but ...I see the point except that they profited from Numi products
BTW:
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2017, the Mint transferred $269 million to the Treasury General Fund
from the United States Mint Public Enterprise Fund. The Mint transferred
$250 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer. In the first quarter,
the Mint made a budget transfer of $19 million from FY 2016 numismatic
program results.
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2016, the Mint transferred $611 million to the Treasury General Fund from
the PEF. The Mint transferred $550 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer.
In the first quarte , the Mint made a budget transfer of $61 million from FY 2015
numismatic program results.
If you read the details, the non-seignorage profit is almost all bullion.
From the report:
"Gold and platinum numismatic products generated the largest share of revenue (55.8 percent) compared to the
other numismatic products. This category generated $216.2 million in numismatic revenue compared to $171.3
million revenue generated by the other categories. Annual recurring sets recorded a $17.3 million net loss in FY 2017."
If you go to page 20 of the report:
The lost $17.3 million on annual sets, they lost $3.7 million on "quarter sets", they lost $1.1 million on "commemorative", they lost $5.5 million on "miscellaneous". They made $33.1 million on gold/platinum, $12.1 million on "silver" (mostly eagles), and interestinlgy $1.5 million on Presidential/1st Spouse medals.
Personally, I don't care that much. But I get tired of people complaining about what amounts to TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED PRICING. I mean, look at the annual set loss and realize that's based on 1.26 million sets sold. They lost $17 million on 1.26 million sets sold. The annual sets should COST $15 MORE just to break even. So, contrary to Board Wisdom, the Mint is not over-priced to take advantage of collectors, they are under-priced and taking advantage of taxpayers.
@BigA said:
...or they produce too many sets/issues that lose money. Maybe they should run like a business?
Yes. That was basically my point. But, as Backroadjunkie would point out if he were here: they don't get to choose. Annual sets are a mandate. And who is going to write their Congressman about this pressing issue.
OK @jmlanzaf, the numbers don't lie. Your view would also apply to stamp collectors maybe? I have no idea of the profit/loss.
However, as a government service to the public, I support this activity. Nearly all countries in the world mint numismatic products as a mater of pride and a service for the public.
Where I object is in the choices of designs, the quantity of products and the marketing.
Some designs just don't make the artistic merit list.
Some products are not commemorating events that would normally be thought of as issuing a coin for.
Some are marketed as a money grab on the backs of collectors.
Example: The WW1 Centennial Silver Dollar and Medal sets. It was disheartening to see the Mint forcing the buying of multiple Silver Dollars to get each medal. This surely affected sales and collector enjoyment. The Silver Dollar was available by its self, why not the medals?
I'm not arguing with your stance. Everyone has an opinion on almost everything that is just as valid as another (for the most part ) And there are funds transferred to the general fund unlike most government activities that are purely out flow of funds. Overall, the numismatic endeavors of the Mint are a good thing that need an overhaul of purpose.
Is $1337.50 the real price that the Mint put their Palladium coin on sale for us? Do we really know this or is this just a general with-in 50 buck price? TYIA
ALSO Has MCM, APMEX or any of the other Big Boys announced the PCGS or NGC 70's Price yet on these?
@Gluggo said:
Is $1337.50 the real price that the Mint put their Palladium coin on sale for us? Do we really know this or is this just a general with-in 50 buck price? TYIA
ALSO Has MCM, APMEX or any of the other Big Boys announced the PCGS or NGC 70's Price yet on these?
$1337.50 will be the price if spot averages between $900-$950, which it pretty much has all August.
But, of course, with the coin going on sale Thrusday, spot has been in the 950-$1000 range. If the average spot doesn't fall below about $935 on Tuesday and Wednesday, we'll be looking at a price of $1387.50 on Thursday.
Thank you back road that alot more than the bullions started but then were talking about proofs. If I remember the price of the bullions starting were about 800 to 900 right? Thursday we will know for sure at 8 am my time zone!
@Gluggo said:
Is $1337.50 the real price that the Mint put their Palladium coin on sale for us? Do we really know this or is this just a general with-in 50 buck price? TYIA
ALSO Has MCM, APMEX or any of the other Big Boys announced the PCGS or NGC 70's Price yet on these?
@Gluggo said:
Thank you back road that alot more than the bullions started but then were talking about proofs. If I remember the price of the bullions starting were about 800 to 900 right? Thursday we will know for sure at 8 am my time zone!
@Gluggo said:
Thank you back road that alot more than the bullions started but then were talking about proofs. If I remember the price of the bullions starting were about 800 to 900 right? Thursday we will know for sure at 8 am my time zone!
The bullion started at more like 1200
Normally I would agree except I have some PDF's I saved as I do this on all coins I buy for reference. I am looking at dated 9/21/2017 First Strike 2017 PCGS MS70's 25$ Palladiums for $1,181 / Check wire and CC/Pay Pal at $1,230.42 from APMEX. and
I have another PDF from MCM dated 9/21/2017 about 11 to 12 options the losest NGC MS70 Early Release @ $1,199.00 and the highest First Strike PCGS flag label at $1,209.00 and looks like they have a roll of 10 bullion for $10,890 or as low at $10,568 so thats between $1089.00 and 1056.00 so I guess your 1200 is close. But maybe that price was after the rise which was by the hour as I remember. I just wish I knew how to post PDF's here. Maybe I can vert to JPG, I will try that.
Ohhh Look at the APMEX it list the bullion by it self at $1036.19 probably pre sale.
Sucess and these were Pre Sale so thats where I need to be when the presale come out for the best price on the 2018
I am going to guess the pre Sale is going to pop up any day maybe Monday?, Tuesday?, Wednesday? or Thursday? Who Knows.
Comments
I see an eBay seller by name nursen-51 is listing it at $999 BIN with offer option
?????
Clearly, they are confused (at the very least)
Edited to add: I looked up the listing. It's $999 + $776 shipping. LMAO. So, it's actually pre-selling at $1775
How are those PRE SALES going ?
Thank you for spotting it ..... I was thinking about revisiting the site.
I'm a (strong) buyer of these...
Successful past transactions with (among MANY others) wondercoin, SNMAN, oilers99, robertpr, kalshacon, oldgumballmachineswanted, jclovescoins, Bigbuck1975, Ahrensdad, bretts911, freechance, XF45, TomB, adriana
Message me your price. I can PayPal as soon as you get an order number...
Did anyone get buy offers from dealers yet?
Coins since 1994 is buying. They don't know at what premium yet.
What am I, chopped liver?
Very sorry for being a bad formite :-(
I posted that from my phone w/o noticing your post above.
CLASSIC.....
Up $14 today to $978/$988 bid/ask.
Will it go over $1,000 before Wednesday close?
even if it does, they go by week's average - so it'll have to go much higher and quicker
It will be helpful to see the actual buy prices that some advanteous dealer posts. I realize most dealers are gun shy because they don’t want to be out bid. Or show their hand. The Game.
Let the brave ones step forward.
Given that some are pre- selling at 1700 to $1800, that would put their bids in the 1500 to 1600 range.
A major bullion house is offering $100 + all your costs paid. Don't know how good an offer that is though.
Not nearly good enough for my tastes.
Yes, that would be consistent with the $1500 to $1600 I mentioned.
I've been offered from $150-$250 above so far per coin. And I have not committed to any of them, as I think it could be higher. I'm hoping to pick up 3-4 of them.
you just need different mailing addresses, correct? they don't check the bill to address?
Don't quote me on that.
That is correct. And a different email address to create the account.
Hard to say. At $250 above issue, you're talking a wholesale price of $1650-ish. That means you need a minimum sale price of $1800. How many buyers are there at $2000 for a novelty coin?
I'm taking the $150 above offered and running. But I'd rather take the $300 profit on the pair (if all goes well) than end up holding them as the price slides.
The money will be in the PR 70 (with first strike label). Those will be the coins selling for over $2,000.
If I can pick up 4, send them all to get graded, and half are 70's, it's bank. Heck, even one 70 is a big payday. A guaranteed $250 profit each though is tempting.
The difficulty for the dealers in the past is people want to “easy” money now and commit early but when the issues possibly go for more later, they back out, leaving the dealers dry.
Maybe, maybe not. And timing is everything. It's all speculation. You are still talking about a $2000 novelty coin. Platinum eagles were hot once too. Now they are just bullion. But, hey, that's why they call it gambling.
I believe you need a different mailing address, email AND credit card number.
Not for me, in the past at least. Different mailing address and email address has been plenty. I've used the same card to pay for multiples.
According to eBay several PR70 presale palladiums already sold at $2,350 which seems high to me at this stage. I will get one, send it in and if it is a 70 great, if not I will be looking to buy around $2,000 also.
Regarding platinum no longer hot? For sure platinum price died (for now) and many MS69 bullion versions are priced well below issue price. That said, some years and denominations are very hard to find for sale at all.
However, many MS70's of these are so scarce as to be unbelievable in some years. Two of the only 5 graded 2000 half ounce $50's of over 1,000 slabbed are currently for sale at $16,695 and 18,000. Then there are 3 years with pop 1 coins, and 2 years with pop 2 coins that would take even deeper pockets. Many way too hot to handle for me.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I'm a (strong) buyer of these..
Message me your price too! And neither Nurmaler nor myself should be discussing a buy of these again on this Coin Forum. That is for the Buy, Sell, Trade Board only.
Wondercoin.
We no longer have any rules here.
You are right!
Posting one there now ;-)
WTH? He who profits? I prefer to stay positive here usually, but this deserves a callout. Anyone here has modern numismatic interests, or should. All I have to say. All I have to say. All I have to say. Said
Unless things have changed in the last year, the Mint was rather wise to multiple emails and addresses by card acct. Shipping address had to match card address.
They haven't been wise in the last year to my two accounts. Different email, different shipping address, same cc billing address
This was a very specific response to a very specific issue. The Mint loses money on numismatic coins. From a taxpayer standpoint, not a collector/dealer standpoint, it is ridiculous that taxpayers are subsidizing coin collectors.
I didn't know taxpayers had anything to do with the Mint
The MInt is not a separate enterprise. The Mint profit goes back to Washington. That profit is correspondingly lower because they lose money on virtually every numismatic product. They lost $1.4 million on the 2017 Palladium Eagle alone. The seignorage and bullion issues (silver/gold eagles) make up for it so they make money on the whole. But there is money that would otherwise go into the public coffers that ends up in our pocket.
Ahhhh...so the taxpayers get LESS money because of numismatic products but there still is an overall profit made that goes into the Treasury. That sounds different that "taxpayers are subsidizing coin collectors" but ...I see the point except that they profited from Numi products
BTW:
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2017, the Mint transferred $269 million to the Treasury General Fund
from the United States Mint Public Enterprise Fund. The Mint transferred
$250 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer. In the first quarter,
the Mint made a budget transfer of $19 million from FY 2016 numismatic
program results.
TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND
In FY 2016, the Mint transferred $611 million to the Treasury General Fund from
the PEF. The Mint transferred $550 million of seigniorage as a non-budget transfer.
In the first quarte , the Mint made a budget transfer of $61 million from FY 2015
numismatic program results.
If you read the details, the non-seignorage profit is almost all bullion.
From the report:
"Gold and platinum numismatic products generated the largest share of revenue (55.8 percent) compared to the
other numismatic products. This category generated $216.2 million in numismatic revenue compared to $171.3
million revenue generated by the other categories. Annual recurring sets recorded a $17.3 million net loss in FY 2017."
If you go to page 20 of the report:
The lost $17.3 million on annual sets, they lost $3.7 million on "quarter sets", they lost $1.1 million on "commemorative", they lost $5.5 million on "miscellaneous". They made $33.1 million on gold/platinum, $12.1 million on "silver" (mostly eagles), and interestinlgy $1.5 million on Presidential/1st Spouse medals.
Here's the link to the 2017 report
https://usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2017-annual-report.pdf
Personally, I don't care that much. But I get tired of people complaining about what amounts to TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED PRICING. I mean, look at the annual set loss and realize that's based on 1.26 million sets sold. They lost $17 million on 1.26 million sets sold. The annual sets should COST $15 MORE just to break even. So, contrary to Board Wisdom, the Mint is not over-priced to take advantage of collectors, they are under-priced and taking advantage of taxpayers.
...or they produce too many sets/issues that lose money. Maybe they should run like a business?
Yes. That was basically my point. But, as Backroadjunkie would point out if he were here: they don't get to choose. Annual sets are a mandate. And who is going to write their Congressman about this pressing issue.
OK @jmlanzaf, the numbers don't lie. Your view would also apply to stamp collectors maybe? I have no idea of the profit/loss.
However, as a government service to the public, I support this activity. Nearly all countries in the world mint numismatic products as a mater of pride and a service for the public.
Where I object is in the choices of designs, the quantity of products and the marketing.
Some designs just don't make the artistic merit list.
Some products are not commemorating events that would normally be thought of as issuing a coin for.
Some are marketed as a money grab on the backs of collectors.
Example: The WW1 Centennial Silver Dollar and Medal sets. It was disheartening to see the Mint forcing the buying of multiple Silver Dollars to get each medal. This surely affected sales and collector enjoyment. The Silver Dollar was available by its self, why not the medals?
I'm not arguing with your stance. Everyone has an opinion on almost everything that is just as valid as another (for the most part
) And there are funds transferred to the general fund unlike most government activities that are purely out flow of funds. Overall, the numismatic endeavors of the Mint are a good thing that need an overhaul of purpose.
Is $1337.50 the real price that the Mint put their Palladium coin on sale for us? Do we really know this or is this just a general with-in 50 buck price? TYIA
ALSO Has MCM, APMEX or any of the other Big Boys announced the PCGS or NGC 70's Price yet on these?
Yup...I see no price listed yet.
Here is one of the special shops for a signed one for $3395.00 dang a bit over priced if you ask me
But I always like their high priced stuff
http://thecapitolmint.com/2018-w-25-palladium-proof-pr70-pcgs-first-strike-thomas-cleveland-art-deco-first-palladium-proof/
I also signed up to be informed once my supplier gets their 2018 Palladium coins of these in!
You can bet I will be jumping on these both!
$1337.50 will be the price if spot averages between $900-$950, which it pretty much has all August.
But, of course, with the coin going on sale Thrusday, spot has been in the 950-$1000 range. If the average spot doesn't fall below about $935 on Tuesday and Wednesday, we'll be looking at a price of $1387.50 on Thursday.
Thank you back road that alot more than the bullions started but then were talking about proofs. If I remember the price of the bullions starting were about 800 to 900 right? Thursday we will know for sure at 8 am my time zone!
They are pre-selling
The bullion started at more like 1200
Normally I would agree except I have some PDF's I saved as I do this on all coins I buy for reference. I am looking at dated 9/21/2017 First Strike 2017 PCGS MS70's 25$ Palladiums for $1,181 / Check wire and CC/Pay Pal at $1,230.42 from APMEX. and
I have another PDF from MCM dated 9/21/2017 about 11 to 12 options the losest NGC MS70 Early Release @ $1,199.00 and the highest First Strike PCGS flag label at $1,209.00 and looks like they have a roll of 10 bullion for $10,890 or as low at $10,568 so thats between $1089.00 and 1056.00 so I guess your 1200 is close. But maybe that price was after the rise which was by the hour as I remember. I just wish I knew how to post PDF's here. Maybe I can vert to JPG, I will try that.
Ohhh Look at the APMEX it list the bullion by it self at $1036.19 probably pre sale.
Sucess and these were Pre Sale so thats where I need to be when the presale come out for the best price on the 2018
I am going to guess the pre Sale is going to pop up any day maybe Monday?, Tuesday?, Wednesday? or Thursday? Who Knows.