Opinions Please ...
giorgio11
Posts: 3,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm curious what you guys and gals think about this 1820 large cent. I don't want to sway anyone so I won't offer my own opinion, really want to hear how other folks react to it. Thanks in advance ... talk amongst yourselves.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/us-coins/69040
Thank you and
Kind regards,
George
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Georgeous mellow original brown/red color but what's with the bullet hole behind Liberty's eye?
Commems and Early Type
I love it, if that is your interest, grab it. Randall Hoard LC's like this one are riddled with black spots apparently from their storage over long term. Thus the spot behind Liberty's eye is pretty normal for these and IMO does not detract. Keep in mind the image is amped in contrast so that brings the sport out more, probably not as strong in hand.
Best, SH
The big spot is distracting, but the condition is great. Can't decide, but think I like the toning. One I would have to see in hand before buying.
Nice!!
This.
Nice yet I see it as BN copper just not red enough to be RB.
The toning spot does not bother me. Decent strike. I don't think that the colors I see on my monitor accurately reflect what the coin looks like.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The spot will bother me. There are plenty Randall Hoard 1820 large cents available. PCGS pop = 95
Thanks for the opinions and they are in line with my own thoughts. I go straight for that spot every time ... welcome to the OCD club where everybody counts and I factor every number I come across, or try to.
Needless to say, the coin is still available last I checked, and I'm gonna stay away even though I love it, surfaces and color, except for that damned spot.
"Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?"
Kind regards,
George
I have very little knowledge of copper, but 3 things that tend to turn me off any coin in general are scratches, rim issues and spots like this one. I have owned coins in the past that every time I would look at them, no matter how nice the rest of the coin was, if it had one of those 3 things I mentioned, my eyes would almost immediately go to it. Then I would try to convince myself how nice the rest of it is.
That is a very nice coin, even with the spot. Though I would prefer a coin without the spot, I could live with that one...Cheers, RickO
I really like that coin. I would have no trouble owning it.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Monday morning. Despite the unintended free publicity I may or may not have imparted to this coin, and despite the protestations of those who would purportedly be glad to own it (and I guess I am among them--I just can't persuade myself to buy it), it is still for sale at HJB, hanging out there in cyberspace like a Hair in a Cheese Sandwich.
I'm going to wait until Dalton-BRNA and look around at a few Randall Hoard large cents in person. It is absolutely correct that there will be a few there in evidence.
Kind regards,
George
Good call. The spot behind the man's eye is too distracting
How does one know this is from the Randall Hoard?
That spot is in a prime focal area which makes it a pass especially when you should be able to find another in time. Speaking from experience, if the flaw is bothering you now, then chances are that it will be bothering you down the road. In addition, a potential buyer will say the same thing and talk the coin down.
It is impossible to know for certain whether or not this is a Randall Hoard coin. I would bet on a yes.
The spot does not bother me, but the price seems stiff. If the desire is a coin of this era for type, I would choose one dated 1816 (only large cents were produced that year). If the interest is mostly due to the RB designation, then 1820 would be the way to go (but I would not choose this coin, it's a bit low end for a RB designation).
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Because the Randall Hoard consisted largely of a few dates and varieties. According to Bowers in American Coin Treasures and Hoards, "[Matron Head cents are all very elusive except for the first five years, 1816 through 1820] Today, many of these exist, with 1818 and 1820 being the most numerous. Such coins are commonly attributed to the Randall Hoard. Cents dated 1816 are in the minority and are not even mentioned in some historical accounts of the hoard and may be from another source."
I am not a large cent expert by any means and would defer to the EAC members such as @Sonorandesertrat to comment more definitively, if they choose, on which varieties stem from that hoard--but I sure like some of the survivors! I should have held on to the Gene Gardner 1820 that I bought from his collection back when I was cataloging for Heritage. I, like Gene, loved the color on that one. MS64BN NGC:
Kind regards,
George
@giorgio11
Thank you for the info that is very interesting.
@DNADave it's supposed to be a woman, although the Matron Head design is one of the most hermaphroditic representations of Liberty you'll ever find on American coinage. (I always wonder why Laura writes 'Miss Liberty' rather than simply Liberty, or even Ms. Liberty or Mrs. Liberty--why couldn't Liberty be married?)
Edit: Ohhh .... I just now saw the winky. You knew that ...
Kind regards,
George
With the Randall Hoard, it's tough to find examples that don't have spots. Whether or not this coin's spots bother you at this grade is another story, but it's a judgement best left to an in-hand evaluation.
That said, this is a date/issue that's worth being selective -- there are no shortage of these hoard coins and they are generally available in the market.
And for what it's worth, here is my 64BN example:
If you are interested in more information about the Randall Hoard, consult the following:
David H. Cohen, 'The Randall Hoard', in 'America's Copper Coinage, 1783-1857', pp. 41-51 (1985). This is a chapter in volume 1 of the Coinage of the Americas Conference (COAC) series. You might be able to locate this for free by accessing the Newman Numismatic Portal.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
@Sonorandesertrat,
Here is the document you reference, available via Mr. Newman's portal:
https://ia800203.us.archive.org/32/items/americascopperco0000amer/americascopperco0000amer.pdf
Thank you for passing it along....Mike
Since the COAC set may be available via the Portal, have a look at the volume entitled 'America's Large Cent'. Early copper collectors will find interesting chapters in this volume too.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Indeed: https://www.archive.org/stream/AmericasLargeCent1996COAC12#page/n11/mode/2up
I have the entire COAC set, sitting on a shelf in my house. Now, one can just click a mouse to get digitized copies. I try not to look through the Newman Numismatic Portal catalog too often, because I am left with visions of money flushed down the toilet.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
@MikeInFL Thanks a lot for the bookmarks! One benefit of leading a slower pace of life nowadays is that I actually have time to read stuff I want to! (And trading stocks in August is generally a money-losing proposition anyways.)
@Sonorandesertrat besides being a fellow musician thanks for the article recommendation! It would be neat to meet up sometime and compare music notes (but I fear you might have me singing Schütz or Buxtehude or some such).
Kind regards,
George
Spot? WHAT spot?
Spots, almost more than anything else turn me off on a piece.
The spot is livable in my opinion, but it's not an RB anymore.
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Would Soler, the Gabriellis, or Palestrina meet your approval? I'm OK with works up to Beethoven.
.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
As others wrote, they're available. I sold a nice 65 BN with 15-20% original RD and no spots several years ago. If you're going to pay extra for a RB, make sure it's all there for the grade, color and price.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I paid a fair amount more for this one, which is also graded MS-65, R&B, but I like it a lot more too. It came from the Ted Naftzger collection, and he usually had the best cents there were. Even he called this one very nice despite that fact that it is a very common date. It was noted on the envelope.
SOLD
Price: $2,250.00
Grade: MS65
Inv#: us69040
I am sooooooo leery of pix of copper that I'm sure I miss out on a lot of great coins.
Spotless! Great find Bill!!!!!!! Did you image the envelope? If so, post it.
Best, SH
I don't think you're going to find many from the Randall Hoard that nice. Bill's example is simply superb and would be hard to top.
I like it but can’t get over the spot.
I would pass since there seems to be a lot of the Randall hoard coins out there. That spot behind the eye and lower down kill it for me. You can find better.
My first thought was that the coin has "been done."