Please talk me out of this

savitale

I’m about to make a bad life choice. Someone please talk me out of buying this coin.

https://d1w8cc2yygc27j.cloudfront.net/625551139015523827/6141985899542187248.jpg

MICHAELDIXON

If you want it, go for it.

Jimnight

Let your yes be yes and your no be no... it's your choice.

BillJones

It all depends upon the price. The biggest negatives are the rim issues in the date area. Because of their position, they are hard to miss. If that is going to bug you every time you see the coin, I would pass. With coins like this the transaction costs of an upgrade purchase and the sale of the coin replaced can be significant.

ricko

If, in your opinion, the price is more than you are willing to comfortably pay for a coin with these issues, than pass. A fair price is what you are comfortable with... if not (and it sure seems as if you are not) , then pass. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

Is this coin raw or slabbed and, if slabbed, who slabbed it and what grade did they give it? I don't like the rim damage near the date which is a prime focal area but it comes down to price. If it's cheap enough, I like it.

gtstang

Pictures are free so make it your screensaver and you can look at it every day!

BillJones

Most every Chain Cent has some issue. The ones that don't usually go for "moon money" above the published catalog amounts, even if they are in Fine condition. JJ Tea Party had one like that at the Summer FUN show.

Here's the one in my set, purchased raw years ago. There is a very old scratch across the Obverse that I can live with. The mark at 8k is a die break and the one 4k is, I believe, a struck-though. It's in an NGC VF holder and most of the PCGS VF graded Chains that I have seen are no better. The positives are the color and the smooth, hard surfaces.

marcmoish

Link it , so we can talk you out of it

DaveWcoins

@BillJones said:
Most every Chain Cent has some issue. The ones that don't usually go for "moon money" above the published catalog amounts, even if they are in Fine condition. JJ Tea Party had one like that at the Summer FUN show.

Here's the one in my set, purchased raw years ago. There is a very old scratch across the Obverse that I can live with. The mark at 8k is a die break and the one 4k is, I believe, a struck-though. It's in an NGC VF holder and most of the PCGS VF graded Chains that I have seen are no better. The positives are the color and the smooth, hard surfaces.

Nice color and smooth surfaces on that S-4, Bill!

RogerB

These things were largely pulled from circulation in the 1850, as agitation increased for a small cent, and more people became interested in collecting coins.

oih82w8

@PerryHall said:
Is this coin raw or slabbed and, if slabbed, who slabbed it and what grade did they give it? I don't like the rim damage near the date which is a prime focal area but it comes down to price. If it's cheap enough, I like it.

It appears to be a newer PCGS holder; see the clear prongs at 12, 4 and 8 o'clock? XF Details, Rim Damage, I would guess.

I would say PASS...not the check book, but on the auction bid...unless it was a steal, which I doubt.

BillJones

@DaveWcoins, do you remember the one you showed me from Harry Liabstan's inventory a few years ago? Now there was a coin! It was marked $150,000 and probably worth it since it had zero problems and just a touch of wear.

asheland

If it's details, I personally would pass.

johnny9434

do as your heart tells you

Insider2

Does not look like a scratch to me Bill; however you have the coin.

OP, a "little birdie" made me edit out my short reply to your question.

Colonialcoin

The fact that you are asking the question regarding the Chain cent tells me what you should or should not be doing.

Insider2

@Colonialcoin said: "The fact that you are asking the question regarding the Chain cent tells me what you should or should not be doing."

Let's keep that a secret between ourselves.

BryceM

I wonder, does the OP’s coin have a reverse???

shorecoll

I have seen way, way, way worse in straight-graded holders. Historically they have given a lot of grading slack to these.

carabonnair

@BryceM said:
I wonder, does the OP’s coin have a reverse???

If this is the one, I think it is a nice chain...

savitale

Here is the link. So far I haven’t been talked out of it.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents/1793-1c-chain-america-s-3-b-4-low-r3-rim-damage-pcgs-genuine-secure-xf-details/a/1278-3057.s?ic5=CatalogHome-ActionArea-JumpToLot-071515

BillJones

The rim damage is noted on the holder, as it should be, which will eliminate most of the “yahoo bidders” who believe everything they read on the holder. I saw one recently with rim damage that was only a little less than what you see here. It was not mentioned at all.

In addition the coin does have some porosity, which is not unusual for a mid 1790s cent. The features are all bold on the piece, which is a big plus. It is the die state with the chain from the reverse showing in front of Ms. Liberty’s neck and face. This is variety and die state that some people say was the source of the comment, “Liberty in chains.”

The is the Sheldon 3 variety, the so-called "leaning R." It is the most common Chain Cent variety.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you, however you want it to be.

savitale

@PerryHall said:
Is this coin raw or slabbed and, if slabbed, who slabbed it and what grade did they give it? I don't like the rim damage near the date which is a prime focal area but it comes down to price. If it's cheap enough, I like it.

PCGS XF Details. I understand the holder influences the price. But it’s not the holder I like. It’s the coin. I want to decide based on the coin.

savitale

@gtstang said:
Pictures are free so make it your screensaver and you can look at it every day!

This is a very fiscally-responsible suggestion!

savitale

@johnny9434 said:
do as your heart tells you

This is dramatically better than the advice I get at home, which is, “Do as your wife tells you.”

oih82w8

That is not the worse looking Chain Cent that I have seen, a couple strokes of a fine toothed file should knock those rim dings down a notch.

Walkerfan

I never buy problem coins but given its age and history; it is almost acceptable.

It has amazing details, the color is good and the surfaces are above average.

It's a lovely Chain.

I don't think that buying it would be a bad idea, especially if you really like it.

Good luck in your decision.

Treashunt

Ah, is it a choice between the coin or your wife?

Then, the coin of course.
You can always get another wife.

oldabeintx

Looks like a great opportunity if the price is okay. I suspect that this may do better than most details coins. A a very acceptable (IMO) details qualifier, honest circulation bump, not cleaned or messed with, nothing bad in focal areas, pretty clean surfaces, just plain lovely to me. Sorry I can't help dissuade you.

topstuf

From what I've observed in MOST Chain Cents, I wonder if it was a felony to NOT use them til they were nearly obliterated.

lkeigwin

Who doesn't love chain cents? It's the lowest grade coin in my collection (FR2). But it is a straight grade. LOL.

The rim damage of this example would bother me. As well as the old verdigris spots in the lower hair. But if you love it and the price is terrific, jump!
Lance.

Wabbit2313

I am not a fan of buying problem coins that will be a problem forever. While many problem coins can and do come back OK upon further review, those dents are never going away.

au58

@Colonialcoin said:
The fact that you are asking the question regarding the Chain cent tells me what you should or should not be doing.

It's worse than that. If you already have reservations, you will be kicking yourself after you buy it.

JustMe2

I have one of these. Don't like the purple stuff on the back. My main rule on spending on coins is to assume that you will get zero for it when you sell it. I will most likely die with every coin I every purchased.

savitale

OK, some of you are doing a good job talking me down from the ledge. Others, not so much.

In lower grades, these coins are just plain ugly. Historic and still awesome, yes, but ugly. When I look at this one I don’t see ugly. Dang, I wonder if I’m in love?

savitale

@oih82w8 said:
That is not the worse looking Chain Cent that I have seen, a couple strokes of a fine toothed file should knock those rim dings down a notch.

Hmmm... Anyone know a good coin doctor?

(Just kidding)

Nysoto

Patience, patience. Chain cents are not rare. Keep saving and wait.

Coin Finder

Well, I would call almost any coin with rim dings a problem coin but the Chain Cent to me is in a whole different category.. Thick and crudely struck and Americas early coinage..I like the detail, I like the color... kinda.... The green spot in the center bothers me a little. I like the strike, the rim dings really only effect the obverse.. all that said.... I would pass. For that amount of money I would buy one with maybe less detail but sound nice rims, a decent strike and perfect color, no green spots...

Insider2

The coin is badly corroded. If you buy it, get it out of that slab and have it conserved. Green is active corrosion and the surface is filthy. The rim problems cannot be fixed without repairing the coin and that degree of damage may include the edge which you cannot see.

Bottom line: Price. After all, it is a Chain cent and has a pleasing amount of detail. In the right hands , it can be fraudulently improved into a very pleasing chocolate brown coin worth more than you'll be paying. We may not recognize this coin in a few years.

Therefore, it is probably a good buy. So, there is plenty of time to research prices but in the meantime BID ON IT TONIGHT. Then you can worry that you are actually going to win it if someone does not bid higher. You'll be hoping for days that someone bails you out! I assure you they will outbid you and then the sense of relief you get will be much more rewarding than fussing about whether to buy it or not!

Sonorandesertrat

@savitale said:

@oih82w8 said:
That is not the worse looking Chain Cent that I have seen, a couple strokes of a fine toothed file should knock those rim dings down a notch.

Hmmm... Anyone know a good coin doctor?

(Just kidding)

Go to an ANA Summer Seminar, and you will find one. (I'm not kidding.)

lkenefic

I like the color, and the details are amazing. I could live with the rim hits if the price was good. The only thing that would prevent me from pulling the trigger is the corrosion. Green patches are my line in the sand for early copper pieces. Happy hunting...

ilikemonsters

I see corrosion. Run away.

How'd I do?

bigmountainlion

XF details can sell for over $10k

mariner67

Thanks for the education billjones.

Paradisefound

PLEASE TALK YOURSELF OUT OF IT!

Paradisefound

IMHO it is so much money for the chain penny and it's not even nice You can do much better with that kind of $$$

PerryHall

@savitale said:

@oih82w8 said:
That is not the worse looking Chain Cent that I have seen, a couple strokes of a fine toothed file should knock those rim dings down a notch.

Hmmm... Anyone know a good coin doctor?

(Just kidding)

Allen Stockton (crs-stockton.com) is a professional coin repair expert that does amazing work that's virtually undetectable.

Insider2

@Sonorandesertrat said:

@savitale said:

@oih82w8 said:
That is not the worse looking Chain Cent that I have seen, a couple strokes of a fine toothed file should knock those rim dings down a notch.

Hmmm... Anyone know a good coin doctor?

(Just kidding)

Go to an ANA Summer Seminar, and you will find one. (I'm not kidding.)

LOL, it can be easily fixed but a jerk with a file will REALLY ruin it.

Actually, you'll find quite a few professionals at Summer Seminar who qualify and I'm NOT kidding. Any long-time famous dealer better know some tricks. I'd love to name some famous numismatists who would qualify.

Look, there are "coin doctors" and "COIN DOCTORS". I even consider myself a "rookie" coin doctor as I can usually make coins look better. The difference should be fairly clear but unfortunately it gets blurred when intent, degree, and method of changing the coin's appearance (all alterations) are considered. If you can detect the appearance of a coin has been changed is it altered? Of course it has. Is it a "bad" or "good" change? Was it done to fool someone? Who are you to judge intent? See what I'm saying? NEW DISCUSSION ALERT

Sonorandesertrat

The intent is quite clear, and I am waiting for an interesting, new thread.

topstuf

As they say, "The devil is in the details."
"Detail" on a slab is a devil.

It will not go away. Unless you exorcise the coin from the tomb and even then it may still get that detail devil back.

I avoid "Detail" coins.

But you don't have to.