People tend to have a threshold when considering an expensive rare coin purchase. It is a mental hurdle that drives your collecting practices and it’s frequently a bad thing, despite your left brain not wanting to believe that. Of course it’s a financial hurdle too but you can always wait and “continue to save up.”
For example, when I was a younger collector I looked at bust half dollars and decided I could afford some as long as I stick with the cheaper ones. But I told myself I’d never spend $1000 on a single coin, even a rare one. That seemed like a monstrously high amount. Maybe I’d spend that much on a whole collection but not a single coin. Looking back on this 15 years later and I regret not buying a nice example of something rather than a bunch of less expensive pieces. Many of the lower grade things turned out to be mistakes. That could’ve just been inexperience. But even as an inexperienced collector I remember appreciating the “high end” coins that pop up from time to time. It wasn’t just about not having the money, I couldn’t get past the mental block of spending a certain large amount all at once.
Even now as I grow as a collector, my mental threshold has gone up but remains a stopping block at times.
I’m guessing that given your consideration for this coin, your threshold is about $10000. In that price range you are looking at a G/VG problem free (minimally problematic more appropriately) piece or a higher grade problem piece. Neither is a terrible option. The question is which would you prefer. I am inclined to favor a problem free piece (if you can find one!) but there are reasons to like the other one. I don’t see the point of getting a chain cent if you can’t appreciate the design in full. Rim issues are price limiting but may not impact the overall appeal.
I was disussing English king Henry VIII testoons recently with another collector. They have a classic picture of the famous Tudor monarch. A well struck one with a good flan sells for 5 figures easily. They are not rare coins overall but are quite uncommon in high grade. If you want a cheaper one, then you have to settle for an impaired one. You can find them with scratches, rim issues, poor strikes, weak portraits, double striking, harsh cleaning, tooling, etc. Which is least objectionable? I dunno. But if I buy one I want it to have a reasonably good portrait of the famous king. And the other stuff I’ll have to live with. Similarly a chain cent should have a good Liberty and a solid chain. The legends can be weak and the rims, well I’d sacrifice that over other important details. A naturally worn nearly slick chain cent despite its history doesn’t do it for me, I need to see the design.
I've been thinking about this all day. I'm doing a US type set and sooner or later the chain cent will be an active issue. I really like this coin...... there's lots to like, but as the others have said, it has issues and they're not going away. I don't have any "details" coins in my collection yet, and I'm contemplating my desire to stick to this as I get to the early copper and gold.
For me, the rim bumps are forgivable. They're part of the coin's history and they don't detract all that much. The design detail is quite nice, and if you can live without a numerical grade you'll get way more "bang for your buck" for the same amount of money.
The green crud is a bigger problem. It's potentially "fixable", but not without "doing something" to an early copper piece. It's already a "details" coin, but it's a nice one. I suppose conservation is reasonable in this case, but it will probably leave a scar where the verdigris used to be.
I guess I'd pass, and start the potentially long wait to find another one in the desired price range, condition, etc.
This is a “but for” coin and I’m going to guess that this will bother you more and more as your collector experience increases after you’ve bought it.
Secondly, especially with a coin of this value, you should pause to ask yourself how easy will it be to sell this coin if you needed to someday. Could you take a 50% hit or more?
There is a straight-graded 45 in the Platinum auction, will be interesting to see the ultimate price difference. I totally agree that flaws grow on you the more you look at a problem "bargain" coin. However, as others have pointed out, these things are old and scarce with great historical interest - I could easily "unsee" at least the rim bumps for a coin of this vintage. As far as selling it later, this is an exception IMO depending of course on how much one has in it. There would not be a lack of interest unlike the vast majority of problem coins, details graded or not.
There seems to be a lot of latitude allowed on "straight grades" for Chain Cents. I see plenty in non "details" Chains that have what could easily be called as a problem in holders with straight grades.
I wouldn't take a Chain with the defects called out on the label.
I recently bought my 1799/8 Bust dollar in a Details slab because I Liked It. I still do! I like the Chain cent too. For such historic coins, allowances can be made ... or spent!
@GotTheBug PS Hello you! Good try at dissuading a fellow collector. Be well.
If you have to ask this then it is probably fair to say you shouldn't get it. You should fall in love with something at first sight that is rule number one for impulse buys! I have a very small budget for coins so if I do not absolutely love it I more than likely wont get it. The rim damage looks kind of bad considering the location.
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
It’s a chain cent with corrosion & rim damage. Those are indeed the negatives.
If you can honestly get over the negatives ( only you can answer that) and it’s at the right price and you love it flaws and all then I say go for it. If you have any doubts at all I say pass. I would pass but that’s me. You only have to please you.
Good luck
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@carabonnair said:
The Chain AMERI. in the same auction (two days later) has an obvious rim bump at 3 o'clock, yet it is straight graded. No corrosion, though.
Rim bump or cud? Looks like the latter to me.
Lance.
@Insider2 said:
The coin is badly corroded. If you buy it, get it out of that slab and have it conserved. Green is active corrosion and the surface is filthy. The rim problems cannot be fixed without repairing the coin and that degree of damage may include the edge which you cannot see.
Bottom line: Price. After all, it is a Chain cent and has a pleasing amount of detail. In the right hands , it can be fraudulently improved into a very pleasing chocolate brown coin worth more than you'll be paying. We may not recognize this coin in a few years.
Therefore, it is probably a good buy. So, there is plenty of time to research prices but in the meantime BID ON IT TONIGHT. Then you can worry that you are actually going to win it if someone does not bid higher. You'll be hoping for days that someone bails you out! I assure you they will outbid you and then the sense of relief you get will be much more rewarding than fussing about whether to buy it or not!
There is corrosion on the coin. I would hope there is some way to remove it or stop it from getting worse. I don't think I would call it badly corroded, at least compared with other examples of the type.
I would not be interested in having the rim dings repaired. They are part of the coin's history. Besides, it would be pretty easy to discover the "before" photos with a little internet research and that will knock down the value.
@Catbert said:
This is a “but for” coin and I’m going to guess that this will bother you more and more as your collector experience increases after you’ve bought it.
Secondly, especially with a coin of this value, you should pause to ask yourself how easy will it be to sell this coin if you needed to someday. Could you take a 50% hit or more?
A 50% hit on this coin would be excruciating. I certainly have no delusions about making a profit on this (or any) coin but I would hold out hope that in the worst of circumstances it could be sent back to auction for a 25% hit.
@carabonnair said:
The Chain AMERI. in the same auction (two days later) has an obvious rim bump at 3 o'clock, yet it is straight graded. No corrosion, though.
To me, this example should be "Details - Scratches". I prefer the one with the rim bumps.
Each of us has his coin pet peeves.
Scratches, especially old, toned-over ones I can live with.
Rim bumps, knocks, bruises, just drive me batty.
As a dealer, I will buy them if they are dirt cheap, which this coin, given its rarity and demand, is obviously not.
With my collector's hat on, I could not handle the rim bumps.
I would rather not have one than have that coin.
And I know how tough they are...but I could not deal with that type of damage, especially so near the date.
But that's just me.
IMO this is a NICE chain if it looks as good in hand, especially at the price. In the photos the rim bumps look more like die cuds, Doubters, take a look at the disasters that are straight-graded that sell for more, with much less detail, severe planchet flaws, real moonscapes. I too generally avoid problem coins like the plague. This coin, like colonials, are in a different class. Hope the OP pulled the trigger.
Comments
People tend to have a threshold when considering an expensive rare coin purchase. It is a mental hurdle that drives your collecting practices and it’s frequently a bad thing, despite your left brain not wanting to believe that. Of course it’s a financial hurdle too but you can always wait and “continue to save up.”
For example, when I was a younger collector I looked at bust half dollars and decided I could afford some as long as I stick with the cheaper ones. But I told myself I’d never spend $1000 on a single coin, even a rare one. That seemed like a monstrously high amount. Maybe I’d spend that much on a whole collection but not a single coin. Looking back on this 15 years later and I regret not buying a nice example of something rather than a bunch of less expensive pieces. Many of the lower grade things turned out to be mistakes. That could’ve just been inexperience. But even as an inexperienced collector I remember appreciating the “high end” coins that pop up from time to time. It wasn’t just about not having the money, I couldn’t get past the mental block of spending a certain large amount all at once.
Even now as I grow as a collector, my mental threshold has gone up but remains a stopping block at times.
I’m guessing that given your consideration for this coin, your threshold is about $10000. In that price range you are looking at a G/VG problem free (minimally problematic more appropriately) piece or a higher grade problem piece. Neither is a terrible option. The question is which would you prefer. I am inclined to favor a problem free piece (if you can find one!) but there are reasons to like the other one. I don’t see the point of getting a chain cent if you can’t appreciate the design in full. Rim issues are price limiting but may not impact the overall appeal.
I was disussing English king Henry VIII testoons recently with another collector. They have a classic picture of the famous Tudor monarch. A well struck one with a good flan sells for 5 figures easily. They are not rare coins overall but are quite uncommon in high grade. If you want a cheaper one, then you have to settle for an impaired one. You can find them with scratches, rim issues, poor strikes, weak portraits, double striking, harsh cleaning, tooling, etc. Which is least objectionable? I dunno. But if I buy one I want it to have a reasonably good portrait of the famous king. And the other stuff I’ll have to live with. Similarly a chain cent should have a good Liberty and a solid chain. The legends can be weak and the rims, well I’d sacrifice that over other important details. A naturally worn nearly slick chain cent despite its history doesn’t do it for me, I need to see the design.
The only other option is to raise the threshold.
I've been thinking about this all day. I'm doing a US type set and sooner or later the chain cent will be an active issue. I really like this coin...... there's lots to like, but as the others have said, it has issues and they're not going away. I don't have any "details" coins in my collection yet, and I'm contemplating my desire to stick to this as I get to the early copper and gold.
For me, the rim bumps are forgivable. They're part of the coin's history and they don't detract all that much. The design detail is quite nice, and if you can live without a numerical grade you'll get way more "bang for your buck" for the same amount of money.
The green crud is a bigger problem. It's potentially "fixable", but not without "doing something" to an early copper piece. It's already a "details" coin, but it's a nice one. I suppose conservation is reasonable in this case, but it will probably leave a scar where the verdigris used to be.
I guess I'd pass, and start the potentially long wait to find another one in the desired price range, condition, etc.
There are few coins in a details slab that would be viewed as desirable. The chain cent is so iconic that is definitely is one of these.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Have you been looking for a long time,for years,months???
This is a “but for” coin and I’m going to guess that this will bother you more and more as your collector experience increases after you’ve bought it.
Secondly, especially with a coin of this value, you should pause to ask yourself how easy will it be to sell this coin if you needed to someday. Could you take a 50% hit or more?
There is a straight-graded 45 in the Platinum auction, will be interesting to see the ultimate price difference. I totally agree that flaws grow on you the more you look at a problem "bargain" coin. However, as others have pointed out, these things are old and scarce with great historical interest - I could easily "unsee" at least the rim bumps for a coin of this vintage. As far as selling it later, this is an exception IMO depending of course on how much one has in it. There would not be a lack of interest unlike the vast majority of problem coins, details graded or not.
There seems to be a lot of latitude allowed on "straight grades" for Chain Cents. I see plenty in non "details" Chains that have what could easily be called as a problem in holders with straight grades.
I wouldn't take a Chain with the defects called out on the label.
The Chain AMERI. in the same auction (two days later) has an obvious rim bump at 3 o'clock, yet it is straight graded. No corrosion, though.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
.
I recently bought my 1799/8 Bust dollar in a Details slab because I Liked It. I still do! I like the Chain cent too. For such historic coins, allowances can be made ... or spent!
@GotTheBug PS Hello you! Good try at dissuading a fellow collector. Be well.
Kind regards,
George
If you do decide to go for it, you may have just made the coin a little more expensive by posting it here.
Could someone with the skills to do so do a side-by-side of the details coin and the straight-graded 45? Would be interesting IMO.
If you have to ask this then it is probably fair to say you shouldn't get it. You should fall in love with something at first sight that is rule number one for impulse buys! I have a very small budget for coins so if I do not absolutely love it I more than likely wont get it. The rim damage looks kind of bad considering the location.
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
Very well.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
It’s a chain cent that’s the positive
It’s a chain cent with corrosion & rim damage. Those are indeed the negatives.
If you can honestly get over the negatives ( only you can answer that) and it’s at the right price and you love it flaws and all then I say go for it. If you have any doubts at all I say pass. I would pass but that’s me. You only have to please you.
Good luck
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Rim bump or cud? Looks like the latter to me.
Lance.
There is corrosion on the coin. I would hope there is some way to remove it or stop it from getting worse. I don't think I would call it badly corroded, at least compared with other examples of the type.
I would not be interested in having the rim dings repaired. They are part of the coin's history. Besides, it would be pretty easy to discover the "before" photos with a little internet research and that will knock down the value.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
dupe.
A 50% hit on this coin would be excruciating. I certainly have no delusions about making a profit on this (or any) coin but I would hold out hope that in the worst of circumstances it could be sent back to auction for a 25% hit.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
To me, this example should be "Details - Scratches". I prefer the one with the rim bumps.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
It sold for $18,000 which included the juice.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Each of us has his coin pet peeves.
Scratches, especially old, toned-over ones I can live with.
Rim bumps, knocks, bruises, just drive me batty.
As a dealer, I will buy them if they are dirt cheap, which this coin, given its rarity and demand, is obviously not.
With my collector's hat on, I could not handle the rim bumps.
I would rather not have one than have that coin.
And I know how tough they are...but I could not deal with that type of damage, especially so near the date.
But that's just me.
IMO this is a NICE chain if it looks as good in hand, especially at the price. In the photos the rim bumps look more like die cuds, Doubters, take a look at the disasters that are straight-graded that sell for more, with much less detail, severe planchet flaws, real moonscapes. I too generally avoid problem coins like the plague. This coin, like colonials, are in a different class. Hope the OP pulled the trigger.
It's not the damage on the coin. It's printing it on the label that bites you in the butt!
Skip it until the "right" person sends it in.