Washington and Adams Presidential Silver Medals (S801 & S802, $39.95, on sale now)
BackroadJunkie
Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
These were initially brought up back in February, but since they're real products now, I thought I'd start a new thread.
The Mint is releasing the Presidential Medal series on .999 ASE blanks. This year, they are offereing Washington and Adam. Starting in 2019, they will strike four new presidential medals/year, in election order. And, as expected:
Mintage Limit: None
Product Limit: None
Household Order Limit: None
They'll be struck reedless and mintmarkless (neither of which is really a word), and you'll be able to buy as many as you want.
Pricing has been set at $39.95/medal. That's be what, $1880/set once they get done.
They go on sale August 16 at Noon...
Links to Mint web pages:
George Washington Presidential Silver Medal (S801)
John Adams Presidential Silver Medal (S802)
Mint images. (The oblique of Adams makes him look really creepy... 
)
They will have a common reverse. (This is true of Presidential medals up until Buchanan, with the exception of Harrison.)
Link to original thread:
Upcoming U.S. Mint medal offerings...
According to the Coin World article, the medals will be struck in matte. They were initially supposed to be in proof. This is concerning because of the presidential medals in the C&C sets.
coinworld: Presidential medals in silver on sale Aug. 16 from the United States Mint
Comments
Thanks, I have been wondering what they would look like. Still undecided. Bought the rev prf set and last I looked still no sell out. Unlimited mintage is not a plus.
Well, it's a medal. These are supposed to become part of the Mint's permanent catalog, so not only will they (probably) have an unlimited mintage, but you'll be able to get them until the end of time...
I'm in...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Well thank you I might want to pick 1 of each up as I like buying medals. Here is one I picked up not to long ago.
The first Presidential Indian Peace medals were made for President Jefferson. It was only several decades later that individuals and institutions began requesting sets of presidential medals and it was realized that none had been made for Washington or John Adams. The new medals were made along the same pattern as Jefferson's.
The two pieces shown at the top of this thread seem frumpy and lacking in definition -- as though the fellows who gave the Washington quarter "spaghetti hair" was back at work.
Should have waited a day. The mint populated both web pages this morning.
Yep. First I thought the reverse images might have been an error, but then I checked my 1 5/8" medal set.
With the exception of Harrison, they used the Peace medal reverse until Buchanan's medal...
They look like nice medals, however, not an area of interest for me. Sure, I have a few medals, but would not be interested in a presidential series... I did not like the prezzie bucks either...Nice chunk of silver though. Cheers, RickO
Letter from 1845 referring to uniform reverse of Presidential-Indian medals.
Mint of the United States
Philadelphia
April 26, 1845
"James C. Melvill, Esq.
Secretary,
East India Company
[London]
Sir,
I have had the honor of receiving your letter of the 8th ulto., which has been preceded by the package of antique coins, to which it refers. For this very valuable and interesting accession to our Cabinet, I tender my thanks to the Hon. Court of Directors, and to the gentlemen (including yourself, who have taken part in furthering my application.
Herewith is transmitted a package of medals and master coins of the U.S., which I beg may be accepted for the Company’s Collection. It contains the medals, in copper bronzed, of Presidents Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, John Q. Adams, Jackson, Van Buren, and Tyler; the only Presidential medals that have been struck. Their uniform reverse is the emblem of amnity [sic] with our Indian tribes, to whose chiefs they are presented. The coins are a complete series of the present year.
I am very respectfully,
Your faithful servant.
R.M.P."
Also, info. on the Adams, Washington and Jackson Presidential medals from the "Diary of Joseph Mickley."
"Friday September 14, 1866
Therm. 7 o’clock A.M. 66. – 3 o’clock P.M. 79. – 10 o’clock P.M. 70.
A clear morning, cloudy in the afternoon, a thunderstorm towards evening with a great deal of rain. Red a letter from Mrs. Chadwick, Louisiana, Mo., offering me a coin. Bought three dies from the son in law of George Eckfeldt: John Adams, Geo. Washington & Andrew Jackson."
The Washington medal is probably the "Presidency Relinquished" one. The hub was in Mickley's auction.
I may buy one of each of these medals, but it does sound like that I can buy when funds permit and not have to meet some artificial deadline (which is nice).
Poor old John Adams has never received any great heroic treatment from U.S. Mint engravers. John Adams really had a difficult task as the immediate successor to George Washington and also as America's Chief Executive during much backwash from European turmoil in the wake of the French Revolution.
These medals are smaller sized reproductions of the Indian Piece medals that the mint issued in the 19th and 20th centuries. The 19th century pieces were issued in silver to the Indians and to a few collectors, but for me the most esthetically pleasing pieces were the bronze medals with the mahogany finish.
Here is a Jefferson piece that was issued in the mid-19th century. The original Jefferson Indian peace medals were made of silver and were hollow because the first mint did not have a press that was big enough to strike a large, solid metal medal. The Indians didn’t like them all that much because they were lighter than the solid medals that some of them had received from the British.
Lewis and Clark took a supply of these medals with them on their exposition in three sizes. The most important Indians got the big ones while the lesser guys received the two smaller sizes.
The reverse of this Jefferson was struck with the original early 1800s die, which makes special to me. The diagnostic is the die break on the reverse.
Here is the modern, 20th century medal in "yellow bronze." These pieces are not nearly and nice and not that popular.
Here is a photo of set of Jefferson medal dies. This is about the best I could do behind glass in a dark museum.
Adams also had to deal with the Alien and Sedition Acts which, if not struck down, would have destroyed a free press and personal freedom. (Sound familiar...?)
For those interested in seeing the reverse die for the four-inch Jefferson Indian Peace medal:
Correction to the photo just posted: the right-hand die is an obverse, not reverse.
While I can appreciate older medals shown, I just don't see why I would put money into this full set. I am actually sick of all the medals being cranked out.
My kids and most of the country could not care less about new President medals or their coins, brass, silver, copper, gold, platinum, palladium, proof, burnished, reverse proof, uncirculated, it does not matter.
I expect low mintages and demand. Maybe someone will buy the first couple, but by the time they get to #45 I doubt anyone will care. If silver is over $50 in ten years, maybe, but there are plenty of real historical coins I care about much more.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The price point isn't bad for this large size medal. However, it would be a MUCH more attractive offering if the medals didn't feature a "common reverse". This medal boasts a large surface area with ample room to showcase an interesting design. Why not incorporate images from the time of each presidency or mix it up with some reverses like the one Gluggo posted above....a quote or text from the specific presidency. Please....inject some thought aimed at creating interest in this series.
Well it is just a one ounce silver round like millions of others, basically no different than what I can buy for $20 while silver is $15.50. For true medal collectors, great, go for it. I think it is overpriced.
However, if they are going to do it anyway, I agree with you make the reverse different, but I suspect this is already some Congress law and they can't change it, as they are deadlocked on everything.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I can see the reverse already for #45. "Fake news" over and over, LOL
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The price point is better than I hoped.
These are the presidential medals. A few of the early ones did have a common reverse.
They are what they are. If you change them, then they're no longer the presidential medals they're supposed to represent.
I guess since these are all going to have a common reverse, the coin and Chronicles medals will still be unique. I’ll be interested to see how these sell. I may be in for 1.
Why can't we make them as superbly as we used to long ago? They look like inferior lifeless copies.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
It is a matter of adjusting the die cutting tools to emulate a punched or hand engraved letter/figure. The Philadelphia folks don't like to do this, possibly because sharp intersections are also weak points. The subject has been discussed multiple times and with appropriate illustrations, but nothing has changed. Sad to be able to do better, but refuse to do so.
No, these medals will not all have the same reverse. The C&C set medals will be the same as this new series, unless there is a difderence in finish or slight die modification.
If you collect the 1 5/16" Presidential Miniature Medal series seriously, you'll notice that many of these small medals have already had design "enhancements" starting sometime in the 1990s. Jefferson, Madison, and Lincoln come to mind. They all look a little cartoonish compared to the originals.
The miniatures have always been a little off though, since the method that they used to reduce the designs from the 3" medals (or dies) did not result in strong details. The relative relief may have also been lowered for these 1 5/16" medals.
The Mint has never taken much care with this series either. They were only struck once, weakly, and on poor quality planchets. There are numerous mules in this series. There is the famous Hayes/Grant mule, but also many others that are not well known. For example, the Mint has made the Washington, Adams, Madison, Monroe and other president medals with the reverse that was intended for the Jefferson medal. PCGS has started calling the Jefferson reverse the "Type 2" reverse, when in actuality it was a mule, a mistake by the Mint.
This is to be expected, however. High quality was never the intention with these medals. This series was intended to be a cheap, educational series for the thousands of kids that visited the US Mints every year. I belief they originally sold them for $0.50 in the early 70's.
Mintages for the 1 5/16" bronze medals range from the lower tens-of thousands to over 100 thousand for the more popular Presidents. Fewer were struck at Denver of course. These bear a D mintmark.
From the OP:
I should have been more clear. Of the first 12 medals (Washington through Taylor), 11 do have a common reverse. The exception is Harrison. The next three medals (Fillmore , Pierce and Buchanan) also have a common reverse, but different from the previous 11. Subsequent medals (starting with Lincoln) have unique reverses.
I will be buying a few. Its only money and its silver and there are just not that many old silver ones out there. Maybe these will be special if not ohhh well. Just another heavy little box with some white writing on the outside.
Tomorrow is the big day,
New set in Silver, I for one am happy they (USM) decided to use a Matte finish
instead of Proof. I prefer the Uncirculated type finish above all others...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
You may like them less if you own any of the C&C sets that have these medals in them (if indeed the finish is the same.)
I'm in for one each to see them in hand. Then I'll decided if I'm dumb committed enough to attempt a set...
I agree, but the Medals in the CC sets could be considered 'different', for lack of a better word, since they were included and issued previously in the sets and not with the current offering.
I have the FDR CC set and will compare finishes when I receive the new Medals.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
So these go on sale in 18 minutes right?
I wonder how many minutes these will take to sell out?
with unlimited mintage....at least a few years....
Don't quote me on that.
dmwest , So then maybe I should just wait and buy it cheaper possibly graded on Ebay?
I'm in for a couple because of the price point. Don't know if I'll ever get them graded unless this series takes off....but I like the cleanness of the design and it is 99.9 silver.
Don't quote me on that.
I got a few now I got this on the first day wonder if PCGS will let me do a FS, FDOI grade like they ALLOW the BIG Corporate Accounts? Of course I have not seen any out from MCM, L&C ect. Or do they even grade these medals? Then there is the why even send it in cause its only worth the melt value. Dont worry I dont have the funds to do this but when we get our big Permanent Fund Dividend then maybe.
ZZzzzzzzz. Oh yeah, I got one of each.
USM059778xx.
I really like this free shipping thing...
USM059767XX.
Don't quote me on that.
USM059806XX
One each...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
I may also get the set of these. For 39.95, you still get an ounce of silver plus the OGP which helps a little. At least they are not wrapped in cellophane and thrown in an envelope.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Anyone get theirs yet?
Don't quote me on that.
Just checked, due here Friday 8/24
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Anybody going to post some pics?
I'm scheduled to get mine tomorrow. That means I'll get it Friday or Saturday.
That's just the way smartpost works for me. It's not FedEx's fault, they get it to the distribution center in time, but USPS drops the ball for EVERY SMARTPOST DELIVERY from the mint.
I've stopped complaining publicly ever since I got free shipping (well, sorta), but I'm so glad the Mint sends me survey requests so I can beat them about the head about their shipping...
Got these in today. I'll let others get theirs in before I make a comment about something I think I see.
D2
Don't quote me on that.
Thank you for posting I was still thinking about buying a few of the Mr. Adams coins. I have the other one all locked up in the safe. I did not want to open it just in case I want to send it in for grading. Except I seen some for sale about about the $120.00 range for a PCGS 70. Not sure if its worth that much to pay. Let us know what you think of these.
Got em. Washington has some sort of weird problem on the obverse, it may go back for a replacement. (The Adams reverse is the same as the Washington.
They're better than I thought they'd be. Overall, nice strikes. And yeah, I used more ambient light on the Adams, since I was getting a weird color shift...
Is the problem you are seeing here?
Don't quote me on that.
Yeah, some sort of staining. At least off color. It's very distracting.
Yes, I’m seeing it on all 4 of mine. I’ll probably send them back. I do like them but something is off. It does look like a stain or a smudge, and basically in the same spot on all 4 medals.
Don't quote me on that.