Do I buy Indian Head Cents already PCGS graded, or send them in?

SiriusBlack

I’d like to build a set registry. This would be very long term because my budget is only $50-100 a coin. I know there are many that ungraded are worth far below the cost of sending them in. I’m discovering though that once in a PCGS slab in MS6x condition it seems really hard to find them for under $50 and often it goes higher if it’s a pretty RD or RB graded coin or obviously one of the key dates.

I’m new to coin collecting, only been at it a few years, so my grading abilities when looking at coins are not strong enough to tell the differences in high grades and if they’ve been cleaned or not I don’t think. I have purchased a couple books on grading and on the Indian Head cent to learn more though. I’m not sure I’d save much money in any event buying and sending in, but it would open up my selections of coins at coin shops.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Walkerguy21D

I’m new to coin collecting, I’d like to build a set registry

These two statements tell me that you need to buy coins that are already PCGS graded.

Good that you have purchased books, the next thing you need to do is look at a LOT of coins,
raw and graded - before you start spending serious money. Even coins that ARE already graded have wide variations between them, as it sounds like you've started to notice, as the 'pretty' coins that you mentioned tend to command more money. Go to shows to see them in hand if possible, otherwise look at coins on line.

Be sure to check out Rick Snow's (Eagle Eye) website for lots of coin images and information.
Not sure if Charmy Harker (The Penny Lady) has a website or not, but at shows she has a large inventory of very nice IHCs.

Best of luck - I'm sure you will get a lot more advice on this topic from others.

Raybo

I did a complete set of FE and Indian cents in AU-BU without any grading service help (thank you )
I think I seriously started in about 1975 and finally purchased my AUish 1877 in 1984(?) for $850....WOW, that was huge for me.
Get your grading eyes and just do it yourself....my X took off with my set after our divorce.
Thanks for bringing up some great memories for me Sirius.

logger7

I'd work with a notable expert like Mr. Snow, etc. not sure if he deals in raw coins. Cents are some of the most subject to artificial processing and other problems that I have seen, compared to silver and gold coins, and harder to "see" unless you know what to look for.

Smudge

New to collecting--purchase already PCGS graded unless you are just filling Whitman folders. For the common ones get them in higher grades for a good collection.

keets

on the budget you stated in the OP you should be able to build your set raw working backwards, AU/MS into the 1890's, then XF/AU till about 1880. prior to 1880 it'll be in lower grades but you should still be able to find nice coins. there are, of course, some expensive dates.

PhilLynott

Agree with others you will end up in a much better position when it's said and done just sticking with already graded coins.

If you're budget is $50-100 a coin you can turn it into $100-200 a coin or $200-400 a coin by just waiting longer in-between coin purchases. Just takes a little more patience that way but IMO waiting a little longer to get a coin you'll love is a good way to go.

EagleEye

Why add the expense of grading to a $100 coin?

Step #1: Join the Fly-In club
fly-inclub.org/

lkenefic

Of course you're going to be spending more than that on an 1877, but also, the '72 is difficult to find nice as well. Good luck and happy hunting!

jedm

Welcome to the forum. I suggest that if you haven't already, you might consider purchasing "A Guide Book of Flying Eagle and Indian Head Cents" by Richard Snow. Have fun!

OldIndianNutKase

Given your experience with the series, I would advise that you buy certified coins just to establish a baseline to the grading system. Purchasing RAW coins for certified coin $$ will probably not work out well for you, and the additional cost of certification will make the coin a loser for you.

IHC's are also graded by color. Many coins that you might think are RD have been dipped to attain that look. For copper to be RD after 100+ years is at best improbable. More the better reason to buy some nice PCGS graded coins that will be proper for the grade and the color.

Welcome to the forum. And thanks for your post.

OINK

jesbroken

When I was building my IHC set, Rick Snow was a great help. I grew the set as he grew his books and I learned immensely through them. One type of education that is the least expensive and most rewarding is go to a large coin show and look at hundreds of coins, if not thousands, not just graded ones, but raw ones. Ask questions and you will be amazed at the education available just for the asking. IHC's were one of the most rewarding sets to build, in my opinion. Many, many can be picked up in AU for small funds and are more attractive than the MS coins, again my opinion. Good luck and show us your collection as it grows. Please learn the cleaned aspect of coins before sending any in to be graded.
Jim

lkeigwin

Dipping copper to achieve convincing mint red is utter nonsense. Copper is not like silver. Dipping copper results in unnatural color that is normally easy to spot.

This is not to say that some have tried. The huge difference in value between original red and red-brown or brown is a big motivator. Thankfully grading companies like PCGS are wise to it and are experts at distinguishing messed-with copper from original mint color.

Old, natural red copper is not at all improbable. Coins stored in rolls for many, many decades often retain their original mint color. Shoot...just look at ordinary change. Red cents from the '80s or '90s are not that hard to find.

Still, for your budget and collecting goals it would be wise to buy coins already graded and to focus on less expensive RB or BN cents with attractive looks. Focus on eye appeal. And lean on other collectors and dealers with experience and good reputations.

Small cents collecting is a great way to break into the hobby. Have fun with it! But do some homework.
Lance.

SiriusBlack

Thank you everyone for the reply’s so far! I’m glad to hear so far I’m asking the right questions.

I did pick up Richard Snow’s book, and have already started perusing it and the fly-inclub.

I come from a cameras background so I understand researching models, varieties, sales vs asking on eBay etc. I’m trying to make this more familiar to myself by going over all the things I’d be asking and researching if this was a vintage Leica. Rarity, condition, and eye appeal seem to be the big factors for both!

What are the best ways to buy? I have two or three coin shops in my area. I’m very comfortable with eBay for cameras, but no experience with coin sales there. I’ve read there are also coin shows you can go to sometimes. I assume these are like the camera shows I used to buy and sell at all the time. I did download some of the PCGS apps which look like a good way to scan barcodes, or search by the number to verify it matches the coin shown.

ricko

@SiriusBlack ... Welcome aboard. You are beginning well... books, fly-in club...asking questions - this is the way to build experience and knowledge. Coin shows are great, both large and small...Coin shops can also be a resource. This forum is a tremendous resource since we have members recognized as the hobbies foremost experts. I also recommend buying certified coins as a beginner...not to say there are no treasures to be found raw - there are great raw coins out there. Just need the expertise to determine authenticity or 'doctored' features. Cheers, RickO

SiriusBlack

I forgot to mention, I do also have an inexpensive penny album with low grade, $1-5 coins that I started a few years ago just as a fun inexpensive way to get into the hobby. I had inherited some coins of little value, but they were sentimental so I popped them in there.

AngryTurtle

@SiriusBlack, @EagleEye is one of (if not THE) premier small cent dealers around, his advice is some you should follow. Going to a coin show and looking at dealers coins and auction lots is also very good advice.

One thing you can try is to buy a small batch (5 or 10) raw cents that look good to you, and submit to PCGS. Be prepared for a lot of trial and error if you do this on your own without some guidance.

sparky64

Welcome @SiriusBlack .
I enjoy seeing the great advice you're getting.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing some pickups.

BillJones

My advice is to buy the coin in the holder that you want, and not depend upon getting the coins graded after you have purchased them raw. Look at it this way. If you buy a mistake that can't get a grade, or even if you buy a coin that grades lower than you thought it would, you have wasted some of your money. Why not buy the “right coin” from the beginning?

It takes discipline, but I would advise you to set aside $50 or $100 a month instead of only spending $50 or $100 on each coin. Some months you won’t find anything you like. Other months you will be prepared to pounce to when the right coin is available.

Dealers are best equipped to play the coin grading game. They often send in many coins for grading and their results tend to average out. They get the grades they expect, but also get outliers too in both directions. Some coins seem under graded, and some are over graded. When a collector is sending in only a few pieces, his or her odds of getting hurt by the under graded outliers are greater.

1630Boston

@SiriusBlack
Welcome to the forum, lots of good advice presented to you above, have fun

SiriusBlack

Thank you again for being so helpful! That’s good advice to set money aside regardless each week or month. On the times I don’t find anything I’ll continue to increase my funds and hopefully have more on hand if I find something special.

lkenefic

Sirus... what Bill said is spot on. After you get adept at grading the series... and issues within it... buy the coin, not the holder. This takes patience and restraint. As was said, there are outliers in both directions. I buy coins to fill in an album, so I'm obviously cracking out slabbed coins... but I only buy coins I'm confident will holder. The TPGs sometimes make mistakes too. It's rare, but it does happen.

SiriusBlack

@lkenefic said:
Sirus... what Bill said is spot on. After you get adept at grading the series... and issues within it... buy the coin, not the holder. This takes patience and restraint. As was said, there are outliers in both directions. I buy coins to fill in an album, so I'm obviously cracking out slabbed coins... but I only buy coins I'm confident will holder. The TPGs sometimes make mistakes too. It's rare, but it does happen.

I'm discovering as I look at coins that just because coins have the same grade does not mean they are all equal. I guess personal preference comes into play too. Which of course makes the price higher if the coin is more desirable looking even within a grade.

asheland

MikeInFL

I think you are overvaluing the registry and slabs at your pricepoint. In short, you'd be paying a lot for the slab relative to the value of the coin itself. If you are dead set on a registry, I'd suggest you buy them slabbed as you likely don't have the requisite knowlege to effectively pick coins for grading. That said, I'd probably just build the set raw and in something like a Dansco if I were you and forget slabs and the registry. Alas, I'm not you, so I will simply welcome you to the forum and bid you good luck in whatever way you seek numismatic happiness. Take care...Mike

DMWJR

You should build a set from already graded PCGS coins. It's too expensive for you to buy the raw and submit, and "hope" they grade, since you are new to collecting. You will be far better off and happier if you just stick with already graded coins. For a set like you are talking about, I would look at NGC also.

SiriusBlack

@MikeInFL said:
I think you are overvaluing the registry and slabs at your pricepoint. In short, you'd be paying a lot for the slab relative to the value of the coin itself. If you are dead set on a registry, I'd suggest you buy them slabbed as you likely don't have the requisite knowlege to effectively pick coins for grading. That said, I'd probably just build the set raw and in something like a Dansco if I were you and forget slabs and the registry. Alas, I'm not you, so I will simply welcome you to the forum and bid you good luck in whatever way you seek numismatic happiness. Take care...Mike

I do also have one of the folder albums that I have been putting coins in for a few years now. Much lower grade, but fun and low cost! I'd like to do the set registry in edition to this one as a more long term, probably lifetime to complete because they Indian Head Cent is my favorite of all coins.

pocketpiececommems

I agree with the crowd that would purchase already holdered unless you want them raw for an album. Many times you can find a graded one for close to the same price as raw. Then you don't have to worry about sending it in and wait for a grade that you may not agree with.