What's your opinion on long term storage in a vinyl flip?
Leroy
Posts: 186 ✭✭✭
Just curious because I hear a lot about PVC residue from the vinyl attacking the coin and leaving a green slime...
But my experience is nothing like that. I've had coins in soft vinyl flips for decades and never had such an issue. On one of the gun forums, they say "never store your gun in a soft case, the case will attract moisture and rust your gun". There again, I've stored guns in soft cases for decades and never had an issue with rust.
Is it possible that some of these conditions occur because of the climate that you live in? Or maybe even the individual. I used to know a guy that would have to wipe his guns down with oil every time he touched them because the oil in his skin was so acidic that it would rust the gun everywhere he touched it.
Comments
As for the gun thing, yes to the person's oils and the climate being factors.
As for vinyl, if it has PVC (not all do) then it is an issue.
You see one gorgeous, pristine, low population coin that managed to make it for generations without so much as a wipe literally eaten into by the hydrochloric acid created by PVC, you'll change your tune.
Or, you can save a nickel by using a PVC flip.
The choice is yours.
--Severian the Lame
If your collection means anything to you why even take a chance?
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This is a non-issue. PVC for short-term, like sending to a TPGer for encapsulation. Long term needs to be mylar as a minimum. If you are uneducated enough to use PVC, then by all means wrap them with rubber bands to hold them together. The black streaks and green slime will add character to your coins.
The flip has never been my coin holder of choice. Even in the old days, before PCV was known to be an issue back in the early 1970s, my perception was that they made a coin look "worn"' because of the tight packing issue in the box issue and movement within the holder.
I think that slabs offer the best protection, but they are not always the best way to view a coin, especiially the very small pieces. I have used Eagle Holders for years for raw tokens and coins, but they are not the best for very thin coins and larger than normal medalets. There the flip or the envelope becomes the only option.
I have had good luck with non PVC flips, and if other things are not practical, they are okay, but be careful about how tight you pack those boxes!
It's not about the cost of the flip or the coin that's in it, I'm curious as to why this obviously happens to some individuals but not others.
How valuable are your coins compared to the minimal increase in cost for non-vinyl flips? Unless you are collecting culls or AG3 common date coins or the like, it is worth it to do it right.
Some flips have pvc, some do not. If in doubt, don't.
I'm highly educated, I graduated third grade before my fifteenth birthday
Environmental factors. Most damage occurs when PVC leeches out in the presence of moisture which leads to the formation of HCl that will pit a coin.
Climates (micro or macro) that are humid with higher temperatures are more prone to PVC flips degrading and damaging coins. Dry, arid climates have less of an issue. Note: My opinion is based on anecdote and not a scientific study.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
PVC is a hard and brittle plastic so the manufacturer adds plasticizer (oil) to soften the plastic. Over time this oil will leach out and will get on the coin. The warmer the environment the faster this oil leaches out. I use Saflips brand flips which are made from Mylar which is safe for coins. They are a little more expensive but I don't have to worry about my coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Okay, some of these opinions make sense, I was just wondering if the whole PVC scare was one of the greatest marketing schemes ever. I notice that no one else shared my experience so maybe I'm just lucky. I should buy a lotto ticket tonight.
Climate makes a BIG difference. Heat will cause the PVC to react with the coins.
I've seen the green plague in person
It's no joke
It isn't a marketing thing.
P.S. The metal the coin is made of also makes a difference. Copper is more susceptible than silver which is more susceptible to damage than gold.
The PVC plague is real. It still bothers me to see nice stuff in those holders. Just this week I got a nice silver coin that had been in a PVC holder for a long time. The coin had not turned yet, but it was all oily from the holder. Had to get the oil off and then set the coin aside so I can watch it and look at it again (for any oil residue) in a few weeks. Just something that doesn't need to happen in the first place.
This coin is now in a Saflip.
I use 2x2 envelopes (guess I'm still old school). You can write on them and coins just slip in and out easily. I always found that vinyl or such made it difficult to get the coins out sometimes.
bob
Had a little spare time today and went through a small estate purchase made some years ago.
The unc quarters and halves required two soaks in acetone, and still didn't turn out great.
The circs I just left as-is, and pitched the PVC holders (but were still in the can next to the computer). The photo doesn't show it, but the edges and rims are bright green.
Disclosure - I live in FL, so yes, heat and humidity are present, even indoors with the AC running LOL:
To reiterate, not all vinyl had PVC, so maybe you just lucky. Plus maybe you have an ideal climate.
I had a neighbor who passed and his wife called me to view and buy his coins. She said he was really proud of the Half dollars and had them in a special binder. Upon viewing, yes they were in a binder with vinyl pages and a pouch for each coin (like the quarters above). All had gunk and had turned green. In actuality, it really was a nice date/mm set that he had put together from post WWII to mid fifties. Unfortunately the damage was done and they were now just silver.
I am very leery about those flips.....here my DC in airtites'
Yes, you should. I stored about silver US coins in PVC flips while I was in graduate school, and left them in a floor safe in my parent's house in Miami. When I retrieved them 5 years later, they were a slimy, green mess. PVC decomposition, like any other surface chemical reaction, is accelerated by water vapor (humidity) and heat.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
all I can cay is that I have heard enough bad things about vinyl flips that I keep raw coins either in 2x2 envelopes or Saflips. We are temporary holders, and we must do a good job of it
I eliminated the vinyl flips years ago....sure, not all are vinyl...but just to be safe, I decided no flips...So I use 2x2's, airtites, self slabs or albums. While green is my favorite color, I do not want it on my coins...
Cheers, RickO
Say no to pvc flips - will damage y coins
I have several sets of raw coins cents thru SBA Dollars all stored in CoinMaster Vinyl albulms and slide pockets.
However I put each coin in a KoinTain before doing so and all the coins are still pristine some 20+ years later.
No PVC flips for me. Direct fit holders or acid free archival SAFLIP. It will cost a bid more, but it's worthwhile in the long run.
PVC on coins is no Bueno....
Hoard the keys.
Just thinking of sliding a coin in a flip freaks me out. I use 2x2's, no sliding needed.
The environment you are in can determine what happens to the coin and how long it takes for something to happen. No matter what those flips are not a good storage option.
I left some foreign for years (15?) in PVC flips, but in a safe so was at least a controlled environment.. When I finally took them out, most had an oily residue, but this came off no problem with just dish soap and water.
Just because you don't see it does not mean that it is not there. Depending on the environment the process could be fast, slow, or somewhere in between.
Don' t use dish soap. Use acetone.
I use Saflips, airtites and mylar staple-up 2X2s.
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I was with you 100% until I read the word "staple."
I'm careful.
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If you smush the staples down right, the coin is often the thickest part of the stapled 2x2.
The old rule of thumb was if they are soft, possible PVC if they are somewhat hard, should be o.k.....but why take a chance?
Louis Armstrong
it is a slow, certain death. I have seen too many coins ruined by the stuff.
Step away from the pvc and keep your hands where I can see them! Peace Roy
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