What happens to TPG coin varieties that have been removed/debunked?
oih82w8
Posts: 12,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
There have a been a few varieties that have been removed/debunked from their respective services; 1896-O, 1900-O, and 1902-O ''Micro O'' Morgan Dollars ( https://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-Announces-Contemporary-Counterfeit-Status-Of-1896-o-1900-o) comes to mind. I found an attributed, on the info insert, 1849/8 H10C RPD FS-301 (001.5) MS64 NGC on the Heritage Auction website, but NGC does not recognize this variety anymore. I am willing to wager that someone is going to pay a higher than ordinary value for this coin, even though the variety is not listed on the NGC Varieties website. Would this coin be covered by NGC or PCGS for that matter if it is not recognized/debunked? It could be reclassified as 1849/6, which it should be, but then who foots the bill? The (new) owner?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Comments
Within my areas of collecting interests are the 1796 “LIBERTY” and LIKERTY” half dimes. The two coins are from the same die, which is the normal date (as opposed to the overdate, 6 over 5 variety. The fact is if there is a distinction here are all, it is a die state, not two die varieties. I heard some time ago that NGC no longer recognizes the two varieties. Despite that NGC still has slots in its registry for the two “Red Book” listed varieties.
I can’t see any difference in them. Here are some close-up photos of the coins I have handed with were marked as one of the two varieties.
Marked as "LIBERTY" 1796 half dimes:
Marked as "LIKERTY" 1796 half dimes:
The complete obverse - 1796 "LIBERTY"
The complete oberse - 1796 "LIKERTY:
The contemporary counterfeits are interesting in their own right. As for discarded "varieties," any once-added value has evaporated.
PS: It would be nice to see a master list of obsolete varieties from PCGS, NGC and ANACS.
I don;t think that the TPG's have any obligation if a variety is debunked. The TPG's fulfilled their obligation in authentication and grading.
It is kind of like housing standards...if standards change from 1960 to 2018, a seller of a home isn't responsible for updating the 1960's house to 2018 standards.
Latin American Collection
I don't really want the TPGs to go very far into the business of slabbing "Genuine counterfeits." Maybe a Machins' Mills copper or something, not much more than that.
I like contemporary counterfeits!
If the value of these rose, could you imagine modern counterfeiters counterfeiting a contemporary counterfeit? I'm sure it happens on some occasions today.
Latin American Collection
Deleted (Due to slow typing, and slow mind, I ended up sounding like a parrot of posts above me).
I'm sure it would. Don't feed the Chinese troll. Making copies of contemporary counterfiets might be easier because the quality standards are not as high. And who is say that "a previously unknown variety" is not a counterfeit of a counterfeit? No, if you are going to collect contemporary counterfiets, buy them raw.
The micro o dollars were certified inadvertently; doubtful any legitimate TPG would consider "authenticating" counterfeits or other illegal items. There is the possibility of a very large liability problem with that....plus, how can a company prosecute those who counterfeit coin packaging, if they condone counterfeit contents?
You are too late. One TPGS has been slabbing counterfeits knowingly for two years. In fact, at least two instructors besides me have parts of their teaching sets in these slabs. Interestingly. I received a call this very afternoon requesting the loan of one of my pieces to take to a meeting in Washington dealing with counterfeits.
@Boosibri has pointed out that many contemporary counterfeits are highly collectible. They have a place in numismatics and I've already predicted that other TPGS will eventually slab Most fakes such as "Henning" nickels.
Remember, at one time damaged coins were only slabbed by PCI.
The "FS-301" part of the label still identifies the variety.
Ideally they would relabel it with their new label text, hopefully something like "1849 / near 6" to distinguish it from the "1849 / far 6".
(Apologies for plugging my suggested new labels).
I have a 1914/13 buffalo nickel I paid $2600 from a reputable dealer for, right before it was refuted by a reputable numismatist. Thus, sending it to the rendering plant.
It's just grazing in the pasture looking for a thread like this to die in.
I say "write-off". That's what business people do.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
These are still attributed but are no longer called 14/13. They are now slabbed by FS number.
If this ain't a 4/3 then someone tell me what it is instead. The second image is an overlay done by James Wiles
I have a 1902 CC Morgan.... of course, not slabbed - since the mint never made one. It is, however, an excellent counterfeit..... I know there are more of them, but I wonder if anyone ever tried to submit one. Cheers, RickO
"For anyone who currently owns a PCGS graded example of these contemporary counterfeit micro O Morgans dollars, PCGS will reimburse the owner for the current market value of the coin(s) under the terms of the PCGS Grading Guarantee."
https://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-Announces-Contemporary-Counterfeit-Status-Of-1896-o-1900-o
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...