Coin questions from a total novice: UPDATED WITH PICS

digicat · February 6, 2014 4:31AM

I'm pretty savvy with sports cards (that's where I usually post on this site) but coins are alien to me.

My father-in-law handed me a box of old US coins that he got from his dad and asked me to figure out what he had and to sell them. The coins date from the mid-late 1800s to the early 1900s. Anyways, some of the coins look dirty. Is it considered "ok" to clean a coin? Even if it's just wiping them down with a damp towel? Or, should I leave them as-is and just sell them that way?

With sports cards, any card of significant value SHOULD be graded prior to selling. Otherwise people get suspicious that the seller is up to no good. Is the same true for coins?

Author1 · February 6, 2014 4:36AM

NEVER clean a coin!!!!

Author1 · February 6, 2014 4:37AM

Let me rephrase NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER clean a coin!!!

WTCG · February 6, 2014 5:05AM

Never ever attempt to clean a coin. Do not wipe them or attempt anything similar. Leave them in the condition they're in now until they have a chance to be evaluated by someone who knows their way around coins.

Coins that are graded make them easier to sell as it takes away much of the grade debate but if the coins are not rare or overly valuable certification may not be absolutely necessary.

lkeigwin · February 6, 2014 5:19AM

I'd guess some of the same thinking and rules, with regard to sports cards, applies to coins. You wouldn't use a pencil eraser on a sports card, would you? Or try to improve the look some other way like ironing-out creases. Original, unspoiled is best. If it is valuable you would have the card graded. Same idea with coins.

Get a copy of the Redbook and look up the coins your father-in-law gave you. Pay more attention to the "relative value" than to any exact price. This will give you a general idea of what's valuable and what's not.

Don't be surprised if much of the collection is generic and not worth a lot more than its precious metal value. But you could get lucky. It is worth spending some time. If this is too much work find a knowledgeable source...maybe a local dealer...to help you sort through it.

Most of all, have fun!
Lance.

BillJones · February 6, 2014 5:23AM

You decide to clean it, add some battery acid to the solution.

Like others said NEVER clean your coins.

digicat · February 6, 2014 5:32AM

Thanks for the advice, all. Got it. Don't clean them.

I'll post some pics for the curious when I get a chance.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 6, 2014 5:33AM

Grading is determined by wear. Natural wear has a look all it's own.

Wiping coins only strips the originality away. We don't think of it as bad, but in our attempt to remove residues, we often don't think that we scratch the coin even with the softest cloth by wiping it across our sleeve, with a towel, etc., etc., . That causes one thing to happen to what is considered an otherwise "virgin" coin, by the abrasions from that very "wipe". This is the typical cause of HAIRLINES and it takes a normal coin that had normal wear into a state of "altered surfaces". The coin will still look beautiful to the "virgin eyes", but it's so screwed ya may as well "read it and weep" if ya already done that. What's done is done. Don't do that. Everytime I see anyone do that, it makes me want to scream.

DennisH · February 6, 2014 5:34AM

digicat: You are a tremendously wise person to have asked before doing anything. Bravo.

MsMorrisine · February 6, 2014 5:39AM

How many are in the box?

We may be able to do a little for you if the box is not a hundred coins or more.

Also if you know how to post pictures, a camera phone can take half decent coin photos.

Photos of Front and back both.

You can list a denomination, date and mint mark for each if it's not too many.

Do these look like all coins with wear or are some looking low wear?

digicat · February 6, 2014 5:50AM

<< Do these look like all coins with wear or are some looking low wear? >>

a mix of both, I guess? Some are worn to the point of most of the fine details being gone, but some still seem to have strong detail. None of them are very shiny though. They're all pretty dull in color, hence my original cleaning question.

Pictures later (either tonight or tomorrow).

Broadstruck · February 6, 2014 8:22AM

<< some of the coins look dirty >>

The dirtier the better as some collectors go bonkers over nasty, grubby, filthy coins.

SanctionII · February 6, 2014 8:45AM

Hello Digicat.

I am used to seeing you on the Sports Forum, posting about the Gigantes.

Welcome to where coin guys hang out.

Definitely do not clean the coins.

I assume you live in the SF Bay Area or Nor Cal. If so, there are forumites who live in the same area (me included) who would be a good source of information and guidance to you as you evaluate the coins turned over to you by your father in law. Consider communicating with or more of them by post to this thread, by PM (private message) or even in person at a meet and greet at a local coffee shop.

In coins "old" does not always mean valuable. It all depends on the specific coins you have the the condition of same. Cleaning will likely hurt the condition of a coin. So do not clean them without first knowing what you have. If one or more of the coins does have significant value, then you will increase your chances of obtaining maximum value by first having the coin graded (just like sports cards).

Good luck.

magikbilly · February 6, 2014 9:17AM

Hold 'em by the edges

Don't sell to anyone appraising
Get multiple offers
Don't sell "just a few" as first - at least don't let anyone pick through them. You will be likely left with the "junk"

Folks here will answer and help - post some pics!

Good luck,
Eric

digicat · February 6, 2014 9:44AM

The coins are just piled up in a little box right now. Seems like before I start handling them any further I should make sure that they're properly stored.

Is it ok for me to put each coin in their own Ultra Pro penny sleeve (used for sports cards)? "acid free, archival quality product made of crystal clear polypropylene"

WTCG · February 6, 2014 10:17AM

<< The coins are just piled up in a little box right now. Seems like before I start handling them any further I should make sure that they're properly stored.

Is it ok for me to put each coin in their own Ultra Pro penny sleeve (used for sports cards)? "acid free, archival quality product made of crystal clear polypropylene" >>

As long as the sleeves are inert (they are) then they should be okay for storage. Just make sure they're secure in the sleeves and try to keep the coins jiggling around in the sleeves at a minimum.

OldIndianNutKase · February 6, 2014 3:45PM

I find it funny that you are getting advise that that you should NERER/EVER clean a coin. I have found that to be relative to the condition of the coin. You probably should not clean an MS or PF coin. But if the coin is circulated , and you ascertain that it's value is not significant, then "What difference does it make?" LOL just because coin grade and human life really have no equivalent.

But also understand that many of the sophisticated posters on this forum will "dip" their coins in acetone or even Dawn dishwashing detergent, but will do it without scrubbing etc. But there is a big difference in dipping a coin in acetone or dipping it in "battery acid" to make it look freshly minted.

A lot of very old coins can have environmental damage that may be able to be restored. And while there are companies, including PCGS that will do this for you, just make sure the coin has value commensurate with the cost of the restoration. If you just post pictures of the cons there will be many competent opinions provided by the members of this forum with no cost to you.

OINK

digicat · February 6, 2014 4:00PM

I should have some pics up Friday night.

magikbilly · February 6, 2014 4:18PM

<< I find it funny that you are getting advise that that you should NERER/EVER clean a coin. I have found that to be relative to the condition of the coin. >>

Hello

Not sure why that is funny? We don't even know what - I was not able to divine what these coins or the conditions even are. In this context advice to refrain from cleaning is funny? What am I missing?

Best wishes,
Eric

OldIndianNutKase · February 6, 2014 4:52PM

<<Not sure why that is funny? We don't even know what - I was not able to divine what these coins or the conditions even are. In this context advice to refrain from cleaning is funny? What am I missing?

NEVER/EVER are absolutes that one might find intellectual argument with. The difference between coin doctors and coins priests may have significant issues with reality. A "coin doctor" may take a coin that was found in an outhouse and washes it off, but the coin priest would maintain that the coin should be never cleaned, even if it was nothing but environmental stuff(or crud) whose removal would maintain the coin in original state.

Until the OP shares actual pics of the coins in question who is anyone to say if the coin should be cleaned. This depends on the original state of the coin and the nature of the corruption. There is a difference between "cleaned" and "improperly cleaned".

This reminds me that you "should NEVER have premarital sex" Is perspective in play here????????

OINK

magikbilly · February 6, 2014 5:40PM

"Until the OP shares actual pics of the coins in question who is anyone to say if the coin should be cleaned. This depends on the original state of the coin and the nature of the corruption."

My point exactly. Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote.

Eric

DeepCoin · February 6, 2014 9:57PM

There is a substantial difference between a coin newbie ruining a coin accidentally by cleaning or otherwise attempting to improve a coin versus a sophisticated collector who understands the differences among the choices regarding enhancing or conserving a coin. It is always good advice to someone who is new to coins to not attempt to clean them, even if some might benefit from conservation. It is much better to learn from the knowledgable and avoid the very steep learning curve associated with this type of behavior.

ricko · February 6, 2014 10:11PM

Excellent move to ask for advice on this forum. You have received good input to this point and anything further will need to be based on pictures. Look forward to helping you... Cheers, RickO

MsMorrisine · February 7, 2014 10:58AM

<< 

<< The coins are just piled up in a little box right now. Seems like before I start handling them any further I should make sure that they're properly stored.

Is it ok for me to put each coin in their own Ultra Pro penny sleeve (used for sports cards)? "acid free, archival quality product made of crystal clear polypropylene" >>

As long as the sleeves are inert (they are) then they should be okay for storage. Just make sure they're secure in the sleeves and try to keep the coins jiggling around in the sleeves at a minimum. >>

For a bit of further education, some plastic has chemical plasticizers in the that can react with metal and ruin a coin's surfaces.

So keep to the inert stuff as above.

OldIndianNutKase · February 7, 2014 11:14AM

<<It is always good advice to someone who is new to coins to not attempt to clean them, even if some might benefit from conservation. It is much better to learn from the knowledgable and avoid the very steep learning curve associated with this type of behavior.
>>

I agree totally with what you write. What I do not like to hear is that coins can NEVER be CLEANED (or conserved by expert collectors or PCGS for example) Let's just treat each other like adults on this forum by explaing the pitfalls of cleaning, for a newbie or for an expert. I have dipped some of my Peace Dollars in acetone to remove some PVC contamination. If I didn't get rid of the PVC the coin was toast anyway.

The OP can get some very expert advice on this forum regarding what to do. Suggesting that coins should NEVER/EVER be dipped is a rather false theology, even amongst the most devout on this forum. Just give us a look at the coins in question........and we will render an informed opinion.

OINK

magikbilly · February 7, 2014 11:38AM

"Suggesting that coins should NEVER/EVER be dipped is a rather false theology, even amongst the most devout on this forum. Just give us a look at the coins in question........and we will render an informed opinion."

Yes, as many have said and pics have been asked for long ago. Until a coin is seen the above advise stands in this context - do nothing.

Eric

digicat · February 7, 2014 2:27PM

Ok, pictures. I just took the coins out of the box, sorted by date and size, and put them all in their own archival safe baseball card sleeve and put them in an extra baseball card binder I had laying around.

I ordered a Red Book (thanks for the recommendation!), which should be here on Saturday. I'll do inventory then.

There were a few foreign coins in the bunch too.

TireKicker · February 7, 2014 2:37PM

Very Nice,

Definitely do not clean these coins.

spinaker2000 · February 7, 2014 2:51PM

They are good as is.

Like some one said, get a Red Book.

OldIndianNutKase · February 7, 2014 3:02PM

Thanks for sharing the picture of the coins. I wouldn't do anything to any of them.. They look very natural as is.

OINK

jayPem · February 7, 2014 4:25PM

I like the racketeer nickel ( the one with gold plating. These were made to fool the unsuspecting into accepting them as $5 gold pieces)...
Does it have reeding (grooves in the edges like a modern quarter. Some of the better "racketeers" hand cut reeding onto the edges to better resemble gold..)

Justlooking · February 7, 2014 5:11PM

The Morgans look nice. The quarters, too. I don't believe I've ever seen one of those nickels with the actual gold plating. Pretty cool.

yosclimber · February 7, 2014 9:13PM

Nice collection.
The Red Book will help out a lot.
That Flying Eagle cent looks pretty nice.

amwldcoin · February 7, 2014 9:29PM

Nice group. Surprise...you have one of the better date Canadian pennies! 1925 is worth between $25 and $50!

Yorkshireman · February 8, 2014 12:10AM

Show the coins to a specialist dealer who can check for nicer varieties (or learn to do it yourself). If you think you might continue collecting coins, buy a copy of "The Cherry Picker's Guide" by Bill Fivaz. That could make a big difference in the value.
An example of this happened to me at the FUN show last month. A spotted a small difference in the reverse of a Morgan dollar. Instead of selling it with my "junk" dollars, I had the graders look at it. What I had spotted did not effect the value much. However, he spotted a nice "VAM" variety. Even with environmental damage, I got $150 for the coin. (Google VAM dollars for explanation.)

In short, take your time and study your coins. It could pay off.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 8, 2014 12:37AM

Bring 'em on down to the shop and let's see if we can't screw you out of them.

sparky64 · February 8, 2014 12:40AM

That's a nice little collection.
I agree that they are good as is.
Enjoy yourself!

mkman123 · February 8, 2014 2:42AM

that is a nice collection there

digicat · February 8, 2014 2:56AM

Would the Red Book go into the VAM variations with the Morgan dollars?

jrt103 · February 8, 2014 6:05AM

<< Would the Red Book go into the VAM variations with the Morgan dollars? >>

It has values for some of the VAMs on Morgans... to identify them go to www.vamworld.com

EDIT TO ADD: Or post close up pics of them on this forum (which is probably the best coin resource on the internet)

BustCuds · February 8, 2014 6:25AM

Nice collection....leave them as is

SamByrd · February 8, 2014 6:30AM

most of the US coins look pretty good. I would list them at a reasonable price on the BST they will sell and you will avoid the ebay fees.

digicat · February 8, 2014 12:45PM

So, I got my Red Book today. I'm not done ID'ing everything, but I did discover that this coin may be valuable. Is this the sort of thing I should get graded?

1880 shield Nickel

I also found this coin, but it's too damaged for me to ID it. Any of you guys know what it is? It's a little smaller than a dime.
Edit to add: Figured out it's a Filipino coin. Is this a 10 centavo coin?

rec78 · February 8, 2014 5:16PM

An 1880 shield nickel!! Definately get it graded by PCGS!! This is a high value and rare coin!!! A $5,000 - $7,000 coin or maybe even more by now, if a circulation (not a proof) strike and from here it appears to be. This is the Key to the shield nickel set... Nice find! A PCGS slab will add value! Even if it just gets a genuine grade because of the slight rim damage, it will still be well worth the slabbing. the damage is not that bad, it may or may not grade, I think it will grade and be an XF45. Here is an 1880 Xf shield nickel sold by Heritage last year for over $6,400. Your coin looks nicer than this one. I would suggest selling it through Heritage or some major auction house to get top dollar for it.

The 1908-S is in the red book under Philippines. It appears to be a Phillipines 10 centaco coins from 1908 struck in San Fransisco.. This coin is worth melt in this shape or about $1.00.

Bob

digicat · February 9, 2014 1:57AM

<< An 1880 shield nickel!! Definately get it graded by PCGS!! This is a high value and rare coin!!! A $5,000 - $7,000 coin or maybe even more by now, if a circulation (not a proof) strike and from here it appears to be. This is the Key to the shield nickel set... Nice find! A PCGS slab will add value! Even if it just gets a genuine grade because of the slight rim damage, it will still be well worth the slabbing. the damage is not that bad, it may or may not grade, I think it will grade and be an XF45. Here is an 1880 Xf shield nickel sold by Heritage last year for over $6,400. Your coin looks nicer than this one. I would suggest selling it through Heritage or some major auction house to get top dollar for it. >>

So the "dent" between 8 and 9 o'clock on the shield side of the coin doesn't count as a dented rim?

(I saw on the grading standards that a dented rim disqualifies a card from getting a grade)

CyStater · February 9, 2014 2:02AM

<< Bring 'em on down to the shop and let's see if we can't screw you out of them.

>>

digicat · February 9, 2014 2:29AM

Here are close up pictures of the Morgans. The Red Book has the 1978 cc being of a higher value than the other 3 in this group. Do any of these look like one of the significant VAM variations?

1978 cc (vam 17?)
1978 s (vam 2 or 74?)
1889
1899 o

WillieBoyd2 · February 9, 2014 2:51AM

The foreign coins are:

Germany, Germany, nickel-sized token of some kind,
Turkey, Belgium, Canada, Canada,
Mexico, Britain, Britain

None of them stand out, but pictures of the other sides would help.

jonathanb · February 9, 2014 3:19AM

<< So the "dent" between 8 and 9 o'clock on the shield side of the coin doesn't count as a dented rim?

(I saw on the grading standards that a dented rim disqualifies a card from getting a grade) >>

There are standards and there are standards. Sure, that's technically a dented rim. It's also pretty minor, and ought not to disqualify it from slabbing. For a key date coin such as this one, you want the authenticity guarantee even if the graders are anal and refuse to give a numeric grade for the small ding.

yosclimber · February 9, 2014 5:47AM

1880 Shield nickel - great find! Most collections which look like this have only common dates. But most collections don't have multiple Liberty Seated coins, either.
It looks about F-12, so $2300 retail in the PCGS Price Guide:
http://www.pcgs.com/Prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?MS=1&PR=1&SP=1&c=81&title=Shield+Nickel

digicat · February 9, 2014 7:44AM

Another coin with a >$100 value...

1880 seated Liberty dime

Here's the inventory:

1878 s Morgan dollar
1878 cc morgan dollar
1889 morgan dollar
1899 o morgan dollar
1858 o seated liberty half dollar
1946 s Booker T Washington half dollar
1950 Ben Franklin half dollar
1866 2 cent
1876 s liberty seated quarter
1876 s liberty seated quarter
1877 s liberty seated quarter
1892 o liberty head quarter
1865 3 cent piece 3 cent
1870 3 cent piece 3 cent
1880 liberty seated dime
1886 liberty seated dime
1889 liberty seated dime
1894 liberty head dime
1899 s liberty head dime
1908 s liberty head dime
1908 10 centavo filipino
1868 shield nickel nickel
1880 shield nickel nickel
1883 liberty head nickel
1889 liberty head nickel
1912 liberty head nickel
1858 flying eagle penny
1882 indian head penny penny
1883 indian head penny penny
1884 indian head penny penny
1886 Indian head penny, type 2 penny
(2) 1890 indian head penny penny
1892 indian head penny penny
(2) 1893 indian head penny penny
(2) 1895 indian head penny penny
1896 indian head penny penny
(4) 1898 indian head penny penny
(2) 1899 indian head penny penny
(4) 1899 indian head penny penny
(3) 1900 indian head penny penny
(3) 1901 indian head penny penny
(3) 1902 indian head penny penny
(6) 1903 indian head penny penny
(3) 1904 indian head penny penny
(4) 1905 indian head penny penny
(5) 1906 indian head penny penny
(5) 1907 indian head penny penny
(2) 1908 indian head penny penny
1909 indian head penny penny
1858/1859 Turkish 10 para arabic
1906 Mexican 1 centavo
1885 British 1 shilling
1880 Netherlands 2 1/2 cent
1865 British half sovereign
1874 German 2 pfennig
1918 German 5 pfennig
1907 Canadian 5 cents
1925 Canadian 1 cent
1957 $1 silver certificate
1908 Filipino 10 centavo

Coin questions from a total novice: UPDATED WITH PICS

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