Sad news regarding Cameron Kiefer......

AnkurJ · December 22, 2010 2:58PM

I didn't see this posted here but was very shocked when I read it ATS. I didn't realize how bad things had gotten...
Sorry if this is a duplicate post.

RIP Cameron Kiefer

ChrisRx · December 22, 2010 3:07PM

Sandhawk · December 22, 2010 3:11PM

Been posted and deleted many times.....

BTW - what is ATS ????

goodmoney4badmoney · December 22, 2010 3:13PM

ATS is "across the street" at another major grading companies message boards. The story is shame, I didn't know the guy personally, but it's a sad thing.

AnkurJ · December 22, 2010 3:13PM

Across The Street = ATS

Why in the world is it being poofed? It is a sad day and people should be able to write their thoughts without mods poofing. THIS IS Coin Related!

TrustNo1 · December 22, 2010 3:14PM

terrible.

RedTiger · December 22, 2010 3:17PM

As always, keep in mind that a person can post virtually anything on the Internet. If done with enough conviction and style, others will tend to repost. This is how wild rumors become Internet fact. Certain hot topics attract more wild rumors than others. There are folks that become convinced of the wildest stories, just because there are posts and reposts. If a rumor fits a certain world view, so much the better, so much easier the sell.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but until I see kind of memorial announcment or funeral arrangements linked or scanned from some kind of non-Internet source, I would tend not to believe the story. Posts and reposts do not make a story true, but do fan the rumor mill.

/edit to add: someone with no reason to lie to me, with a first hand source sent me a PM confirming the story. My condolences to the friends and family. Suicide is a particularly difficult situation.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · December 22, 2010 3:19PM

RIP buddy.

When I was younger, at the Summer ANA shows, me and the other YNs would go around to the different grading companies and try to accumulate as many sample slabs as we could. We'd then go sell them to Cameron, who'd give us a few bucks apiece for them. If you got enough of them, you could pay for a decent lunch each day.

Cam and I discussing some grades... Denver ANA, 2006

RedHerring · December 22, 2010 3:19PM

<< Why in the world is it being poofed? >>

Read a few of the posts ATS. One of the posters states it very well.

ChrisRx · December 22, 2010 3:20PM

Woah. This is terrible.

ChrisRx · December 22, 2010 3:22PM

I didn't know him personally but seemed like a nice guy. RIP Cameron Kiefer

AnkurJ · December 22, 2010 3:22PM

<< As always, keep in mind that a person can post virtually anything on the Internet. If done with enough conviction and style, others will tend to repost. This is how wild rumors become Internet fact. Certain hot topics attract more wild rumors than others. There are folks that become convinced of the wildest stories, just because there are posts and reposts. If a rumor fits a certain world view, so much the better, so much easier the sell.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but until I see kind of memorial announcment or funeral arrangements linked or scanned from some kind of non-Internet source, I would tend not to believe the story. Posts and reposts do not make a story true, but do fan the rumor mill. >>

How many can be wrong?

28 years old with two kids...........

Kiefer

speety · December 22, 2010 3:25PM

Unbelievable. I was mainly a lurker when he was active here but in the few conversations I had with him he seemed like a real smart guy with a promising future.

Thoughts and prayers go out to his young family.

Zoins · December 22, 2010 3:40PM

Very sad news indeed. He was a bright star in the numismatic community for many years. My condolences to his family and friends.

ChrisRx · December 22, 2010 3:44PM

I know there were some threads about him but I didn't pay much attention to them. All I know is that I wish I knew him, and wish I could have helped. Seemed like a great guy that just fell on hard times.

TPRC · December 22, 2010 3:46PM

Very Sad news indeed. I took one (or more) grading/authentication courses with him when he was a YN at the ANA summer camps. He was always very nice. Such a shame.

Kurt4 · December 22, 2010 3:52PM

This is terrible news. As someone who has dealt with depression I know how overwhelming it can be. My thoughts go out to his friends and family. Just a sad, sad, day. RIP Cameron.

DUIGUY · December 22, 2010 3:55PM

Where can donations be sent?

This just blows me away.

customroll · December 22, 2010 4:00PM

Sad news indeed if true. Why haven't we seen any real confirmation about it?? Until we do I don't think I believe it.

astrorat · December 22, 2010 4:06PM

The horrible news is true. I have corresponded with some of his closest friends and they have confirmed that this is not a rumor. His family is devastated. I am too upset to post any more. I will dearly miss my friend.

pennyannie · December 22, 2010 4:35PM

I feel sorry for his family, it is sad that he decided this was the way out of the hole that he had dug himself. I feel bad for all of those people that put trust and faith in Cameron that got taken for 100's and 1000's of dollars and all the unpleasant conversations that resulted from this coin mess. There are lots of victims here and i doubt any wanted a outcome like this.

tcmitssr · December 22, 2010 5:07PM

A lot has been said about Cameron in the past days and weeks. I hope that those involved in writing strong words come to see that their impact can be devastating, far beyond a coin deal that may have gone bad.

In retrospect, were they worth it? The "rat pack/piling on" mentality here, sometimes, seems to know absolutely no end.

Two kids under five are left without a father. A wife has lost her husband in the most tragic of circumstances. One of the brightest young lights in the numismatic world has been extinguished.

The hell with any allegedly problematic deals. I think each and every one who posts here....needs to think a bit more the next time they get riled up before they hit "enter or send."

In a season of happiness, peace and the promise, fulfilled, of man's redemption, Christmas will, likely, always be associated with the worst of time by two kids, a wife, a family and friends.

I hope this place can be better than this in the future.

WTCG · December 22, 2010 5:10PM

I'll admit I was at first cynical when I initially heard the story. Consequently I spent part of today trying to verify the rumors and regrettably they have been confirmed to be true.

greghansen · December 22, 2010 5:18PM

Shocking. The kids, the widow, the season, the family, friends. Nobody gets left out of the suffering on a deal like this. What a mess.

devious · December 22, 2010 5:20PM

My condolences to the family! That is all.

edix2001 · December 22, 2010 5:27PM

Utterly tragic!

DieClash · December 22, 2010 5:36PM

<< I'll admit I was at first cynical when I initially heard the story. Consequently I spent part of today trying to verify the rumors and regrettably they have been confirmed to be true. >>

I have yet to see a link to any authoritive, verifiable confirmation. I've been searching for obits for that past 2 days and nothing. All I see are blogs with RIP in them. Does anyone here have any actual confirmation as to Cameron's demise other than a bunch of blogs and RIP threaeds?

tightbudget · December 22, 2010 6:28PM

I owe Cameron a big one for helping me learn how to grade coins and for keeping things lively at ANA Summer Seminar. RIP, you did not deserve this

magikbilly · December 22, 2010 6:40PM

I recall Cameron very well. I have not heard from him for years and am shocked to hear all this. This is all terrible

Eric

CCC2010 · December 22, 2010 7:36PM

<< A lot has been said about Cameron in the past days and weeks. I hope that those involved in writing strong words come to see that their impact can be devastating, far beyond a coin deal that may have gone bad.

In retrospect, were they worth it? The "rat pack/piling on" mentality here, sometimes, seems to know absolutely no end.

Two kids under five are left without a father. A wife has lost her husband in the most tragic of circumstances. One of the brightest young lights in the numismatic world has been extinguished.

The hell with any allegedly problematic deals. I think each and every one who posts here....needs to think a bit more the next time they get riled up before they hit "enter or send."

In a season of happiness, peace and the promise, fulfilled, of man's redemption, Christmas will, likely, always be associated with the worst of time by two kids, a wife, a family and friends.

I hope this place can be better than this in the future.

(What he said above)....RIPCameron.

Numismanic · December 22, 2010 7:47PM

RIP Cameron

DNADave · December 22, 2010 9:07PM

What a horrible thing.

darktone · December 22, 2010 9:19PM

How about we all donate a coin to be auctioned off to raise some money for the family and to help take care of his numismatic obligations? Just a thought to help out.

drwstr123 · December 22, 2010 9:30PM

de mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est

RYK · December 22, 2010 9:37PM

<< How about we all donate a coin to be auctioned off to raise some money for the family and to help take care of his numismatic obligations? Just a thought to help out. >>

I met Cameron in person, once, and shared some PMs, the most recent in 2005. I always thought from his forum postings he was a very nice, genuine, and decent person. Sadly, he largely stopped posting here after he took the job at ICG.

I have been informed that a fund is being set up to raise money to help his family, and I will surely contribute to it. I am not particularly concerned about his numismatic obligations at this point in time.

ajaan · December 22, 2010 9:46PM

To DieClash and others. I saw this on the Cointalk site. It is from JP Martin (ANACS) who was a close friend and mentor of Cameron's:

<< Hi, This is J.P.Martin
I just picked you at random to pass a message to the board members,
I've noticed a lot of Cameron comments here recently. I thought I might
bring you all up to date before you dig too deep a hole.

I've known the kid for 6 years, and knew him to be one of the most
genuine and honest people I've known. I have not worked with him since
he left ICG in march 2008. Cameron tried to make it as a dealer since. I'll
be the first to tell you He did not do well with money. I think He was very
desperate to salvage his families finances and reputation over the last few
weeks. I'll tell you all that he held the PCGS board members opinion of him
very highly. He has been robbing Peter to pay Paul, hoping he could make
it right. Sadly this drama has played out as a tragedy.

Cameron Kiefer 28, took his own life with a gun early tuesday. He leaves
behind a wife,a 3 yr old daughter and a one yr old son.
Call him a crook, call him a coward, I just miss my friend and wish I could
have him back for mere dollars. >>

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=146923&page=3#ixzz18tIXyYJh

Longacre · December 22, 2010 10:11PM

This is truly devastating news. I met him about 5 years ago at one of the Baltimore shows and he was nice enough to give me three sample slabs for my kids. He was a nice person. My condolences go out to his wife and small children.

kryptonitecomics · December 22, 2010 10:22PM

This is a tradgedy on so many levels and I don't fault those that brought to light that they had not received coins they paid for as I would do that same. Those that practically called for his beheading probably won't feel guilty one bit about what happened but they certainly contributed to the depression he felt. In the end what we can all agree on is that their is a widow, two fatherless children and a family that is grieving today and that is truly heartbreaking.

For those that continue to ask for proof that what everyone is saying is real.....believe me It is a Known fact that he took his own life and I don't believe his family would be writing RIp Cameron on their facebook accounts as some form of ruse so he could escape the Country with forum members money.

I await information on where I can donate to the family.

Smittys · December 22, 2010 10:25PM

This is truley sad.
He is Gone but not forgotten.
God be with his Wife and Children in this horrific time.

carew4me · December 22, 2010 10:26PM

How horrible for his family.

Did anyone have any idea how deep he was over his head?

All of these people who say they knew him well, yet he reached out to no one for help?

Its not fair to judge people on this board who have an ab solute right to express frustration, angst or fear at the fact that
they have not receive something they have for in a timely manner.

The whole nature of message board interaction serves to alert and compare experiences for the greater good of the community.

It is shameful for for others to imply that their expressions regarding dealings with Cameron are in any way responsible for a terrible tragedy.

In fact that would be as bad as asking those "friends" in their glass houses, "where were you for this guy?".

Only one person is responsible for what has happened and its a shame.

I do wonder what can be done as a community here that Cameron devoted his time and skill too. I remember "Sheriff Sample Slab" well and

his many contributions to this board.

These boards have done some great things for many people and this guys family would be worthy of a generous group donation to help the family

especially at this time of year.

Someone knows his family better than most, perhaps they could get the ball rolling?

FilthyBroke · December 22, 2010 10:37PM

Sad news indeed. Cameron seemed like a nice guy and will be missed by many. I hope his family can find a way to cope with this loss and try to carry on the best that they can.

AnkurJ · December 22, 2010 10:41PM

It shocks me that board members are still questioning the validity of this! I never knew or met Cameron, but he was a goodbperson from the sounds of it. We should do all we can to help the family during this terrible time.

llafoe · December 22, 2010 10:53PM

RIP CK

COINB0Y · December 22, 2010 10:54PM

<< 

<< I'll admit I was at first cynical when I initially heard the story. Consequently I spent part of today trying to verify the rumors and regrettably they have been confirmed to be true. >>

I have yet to see a link to any authoritive, verifiable confirmation. I've been searching for obits for that past 2 days and nothing. All I see are blogs with RIP in them. Does anyone here have any actual confirmation as to Cameron's demise other than a bunch of blogs and RIP threaeds?

>>

Agreed.

Trust but verify. Too much trust, no verification.

JRocco · December 22, 2010 10:55PM

May he RIP
I pray for his wife and children in this difficult time.

We do not know what was in this young mans head or thoughts. There may be much more than
has been revealed on internet chat forums. Now is not the time for us to do more than share our prayers
with his family and hope his soul is at rest.

OPA · December 22, 2010 11:00PM

<< To DieClash and others. I saw this on the Cointalk site. It is from JP Martin (ANACS) who was a close friend and mentor of Cameron's:

<< Hi, This is J.P.Martin
I just picked you at random to pass a message to the board members,
I've noticed a lot of Cameron comments here recently. I thought I might
bring you all up to date before you dig too deep a hole.

I've known the kid for 6 years, and knew him to be one of the most
genuine and honest people I've known. I have not worked with him since
he left ICG in march 2008. Cameron tried to make it as a dealer since. I'll
be the first to tell you He did not do well with money. I think He was very
desperate to salvage his families finances and reputation over the last few
weeks. I'll tell you all that he held the PCGS board members opinion of him
very highly. He has been robbing Peter to pay Paul, hoping he could make
it right. Sadly this drama has played out as a tragedy.

Cameron Kiefer 28, took his own life with a gun early tuesday. He leaves
behind a wife,a 3 yr old daughter and a one yr old son.
Call him a crook, call him a coward, I just miss my friend and wish I could
have him back for mere dollars. >>

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=146923&page=3#ixzz18tIXyYJh >>

Very sad indeed..RIP..I've only met C.K. once while he was still with ICG at one of the Baltimore shows.

Coinosaurus · December 22, 2010 11:01PM

The coin business is a harsh master.

There's not a lot of places to go for counsel in such a situation.

In the corporate world we have "employee assistance" programs and the like when you feel like there is no way out.

Trading coins and PMs is mostly unregulated and it is not hard to get in over one's head. I think at some level we all like the pass or play, no excuses, stand up for yourself mentality that goes with this territory. It's part of the attraction, that everyone is free to make their own fortune on the bourse floor, it is just a question of your trading skills. But sometimes their is a downside, and when you have a family depending on you it feels even much worse.

I don't know what the answer to all this is. But, I'm w/RYK, I will contribute to the fund set up for the family.

CommemDude · December 22, 2010 11:16PM

Let's do what we can for his family now, and pray that none of us ever feels such deep despair that we choose this way to escape.

123cents · December 22, 2010 11:24PM

I was one of the blessed that got to meet Cameron and talk to him on a few occasions and to buy a few nice coins from him. He was always a gentleman who loved this family, friends, and coins. In this difficult time I hope people can learn about life and just how precious each day can be. People please don't take life for granted and let life's troubles lead you to do something foolish. RIP Cameron.

mbbiker · December 22, 2010 11:29PM

RIP Cameron I never had any dealings with him but i can remember when he was YN of the year. Such a wonderful mind and person gone

My prayers go out to his family and close friends as they deal with all of this during the christmas season.

Cameonut · December 22, 2010 11:32PM

Needless to say, I am shocked by the news.

RIP Cammy.....

I never met him in person but he was kind enough to give me a sample slab many years ago when I began to casually collect them. I still have that slab and it will remain as a priceless reminder of his generousity. I will miss him.

Sad news regarding Cameron Kiefer......

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