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PCGS NAILS COIN DOCTORS!
DaveE
Posts: 367 ✭
PCGS Announces Next Steps to Improve and Protect Hobby
- May 28, 2010
(Santa Ana, California) - Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) today revealed additional steps it is taking to improve its ability to detect altered coins. PCGS announced that it has a process in development which will detect any foreign substance on a coin's surface, and also announced a major lawsuit filed against alleged coin doctors.
According to PCGS officials, in conjunction with the development of coin recognition technology launched in March of this year, PCGS has been developing a process to detect foreign materials and other enhancements to a coin's surfaces. Using energy dispersive X-ray spectrometry (EDX), Fournier Transform Infra-Red Spectral analysis (FT-IR), Raman Spectroscopy and other similar analytical techniques, this detection process (code-named by PCGS the PCGS Coin Sniffer™) will analyze the surfaces of a coin in a matter of seconds to detect foreign substances and provide quantitative information about the coin. "Coin doctors" often apply numerous materials to the surfaces of coins to conceal problems with the coin, and/or alter the surfaces to improve its appearance in an attempt to artificially increase its value. The simultaneous alloy determination will further aid in the detection of counterfeits as an additional benefit.
David Hall, cofounder of PCGS and President of its parent company Collectors Universe, Inc. said, "when we launched PCGS Secure Plus featuring coin recognition technology we stated that it was just a first step in improving grading and battling coin doctoring. The PCGS Coin Sniffer™ is the next significant development in our ongoing efforts. When combined with our existing PCGS Secure Plus service, this new process will make it extremely difficult for altered coins to go undetected."
"This new process is somewhat similar to what we often see as we are going through security at an airport" said Don Willis, PCGS President. "We have already filed a patent which covers the methodology and unique techniques we are using for processing coins. The new PCGS Coin Sniffer™ process will be integrated with the help of our partner CoinSecure Inc into the PCGS Secure Plus service and will be available at no additional cost. Our targeted production implementation is by this year end, although we will be conducting live testing much before then."
Additionally, Collectors Universe, Inc. (NASDAQ: CLCT), the parent company of the PCGS, has filed a Federal Court suit in United States District Court, Central District of California, against several individuals claiming they engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity, breach of contract, conspiracy, unfair competition and fraud for allegedly submitting 'doctored' coins to PCGS for grading on multiple occasions for a period of years.
The suit claims the dealers violated federal laws, including the Lanham Act involving interstate commerce and RICO racketeering statutes, and also alleges "unlawful, unfair and fraudulent business practices" for submitting coins that were deceptively altered in an attempt to increase their value. The Complaint states: "Defendants knew that these coins had been 'doctored,' by themselves and/or other persons engaged by them for that purpose. Their methods included lasering the surfaces of extremely rare proof gold coins to remove surface imperfections, building up commonly-worn or weakly-struck portions of coins, and other physical and chemical processes. Defendants represented to PCGS that these coins had natural surfaces, intending to deceive PCGS's graders so that the 'doctored' coins would be certified by PCGS and then sold in the rare coin marketplace."
The suit claims the "Defendants have caused, and are continuing to cause, substantial and irreparable damage and injury to Collectors Universe and to the public and Defendants have benefited from such unlawful conduct and will continue to carry out such unlawful conduct and to be unjustly enriched thereby unless enjoined by this Court."
As many as 10 other defendants could be added to the Complaint. Collectors Universe is suing for triple damages as well as all profits made through these deceptive submissions.
"Every owner of a PCGS coin should be confident in the fact that PCGS stands behind its product guarantee 100%. Over the past 24 years PCGS has paid over $7 million under its guarantee program for coins which have developed some type of problem due to coin doctoring or some other issue," said David Hall. "Occasionally our graders have been deceived by the very clever application of foreign substances only to have these substances eventually spoil the coin and necessitate our buying it back. We believe we have compelling evidence against several individuals who, working together and separately, have made a business out of this practice. And we hope to develop evidence against others whom we believe either engaged in doctoring or conspired to profit by it. We hope the courts will provide a suitable remedy to this problem."
"We firmly believe coin doctoring to alter a coin's appearance is clearly illegal under the law", Hall continued, "and we know that it often ruins coins long term and certainly deceives grading services and future coin buyers. Today's announcements of the development of scientific doctoring detection and also the lawsuit filed against alleged coin doctors is another big step in the anti-coin doctoring process, but we will not be finished until we eliminate this unsavory practice once and for all."
- May 28, 2010
(Santa Ana, California) - Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) today revealed additional steps it is taking to improve its ability to detect altered coins. PCGS announced that it has a process in development which will detect any foreign substance on a coin's surface, and also announced a major lawsuit filed against alleged coin doctors.
According to PCGS officials, in conjunction with the development of coin recognition technology launched in March of this year, PCGS has been developing a process to detect foreign materials and other enhancements to a coin's surfaces. Using energy dispersive X-ray spectrometry (EDX), Fournier Transform Infra-Red Spectral analysis (FT-IR), Raman Spectroscopy and other similar analytical techniques, this detection process (code-named by PCGS the PCGS Coin Sniffer™) will analyze the surfaces of a coin in a matter of seconds to detect foreign substances and provide quantitative information about the coin. "Coin doctors" often apply numerous materials to the surfaces of coins to conceal problems with the coin, and/or alter the surfaces to improve its appearance in an attempt to artificially increase its value. The simultaneous alloy determination will further aid in the detection of counterfeits as an additional benefit.
David Hall, cofounder of PCGS and President of its parent company Collectors Universe, Inc. said, "when we launched PCGS Secure Plus featuring coin recognition technology we stated that it was just a first step in improving grading and battling coin doctoring. The PCGS Coin Sniffer™ is the next significant development in our ongoing efforts. When combined with our existing PCGS Secure Plus service, this new process will make it extremely difficult for altered coins to go undetected."
"This new process is somewhat similar to what we often see as we are going through security at an airport" said Don Willis, PCGS President. "We have already filed a patent which covers the methodology and unique techniques we are using for processing coins. The new PCGS Coin Sniffer™ process will be integrated with the help of our partner CoinSecure Inc into the PCGS Secure Plus service and will be available at no additional cost. Our targeted production implementation is by this year end, although we will be conducting live testing much before then."
Additionally, Collectors Universe, Inc. (NASDAQ: CLCT), the parent company of the PCGS, has filed a Federal Court suit in United States District Court, Central District of California, against several individuals claiming they engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity, breach of contract, conspiracy, unfair competition and fraud for allegedly submitting 'doctored' coins to PCGS for grading on multiple occasions for a period of years.
The suit claims the dealers violated federal laws, including the Lanham Act involving interstate commerce and RICO racketeering statutes, and also alleges "unlawful, unfair and fraudulent business practices" for submitting coins that were deceptively altered in an attempt to increase their value. The Complaint states: "Defendants knew that these coins had been 'doctored,' by themselves and/or other persons engaged by them for that purpose. Their methods included lasering the surfaces of extremely rare proof gold coins to remove surface imperfections, building up commonly-worn or weakly-struck portions of coins, and other physical and chemical processes. Defendants represented to PCGS that these coins had natural surfaces, intending to deceive PCGS's graders so that the 'doctored' coins would be certified by PCGS and then sold in the rare coin marketplace."
The suit claims the "Defendants have caused, and are continuing to cause, substantial and irreparable damage and injury to Collectors Universe and to the public and Defendants have benefited from such unlawful conduct and will continue to carry out such unlawful conduct and to be unjustly enriched thereby unless enjoined by this Court."
As many as 10 other defendants could be added to the Complaint. Collectors Universe is suing for triple damages as well as all profits made through these deceptive submissions.
"Every owner of a PCGS coin should be confident in the fact that PCGS stands behind its product guarantee 100%. Over the past 24 years PCGS has paid over $7 million under its guarantee program for coins which have developed some type of problem due to coin doctoring or some other issue," said David Hall. "Occasionally our graders have been deceived by the very clever application of foreign substances only to have these substances eventually spoil the coin and necessitate our buying it back. We believe we have compelling evidence against several individuals who, working together and separately, have made a business out of this practice. And we hope to develop evidence against others whom we believe either engaged in doctoring or conspired to profit by it. We hope the courts will provide a suitable remedy to this problem."
"We firmly believe coin doctoring to alter a coin's appearance is clearly illegal under the law", Hall continued, "and we know that it often ruins coins long term and certainly deceives grading services and future coin buyers. Today's announcements of the development of scientific doctoring detection and also the lawsuit filed against alleged coin doctors is another big step in the anti-coin doctoring process, but we will not be finished until we eliminate this unsavory practice once and for all."
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I wonder if SanctionII has access to this filing?
The name is LEE!
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
bob
bob
YIKES!
tell where it has been
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>You mean if I stick a coin between my toes and send it in to their sniffing machine they can
tell where it has been
I wish I could hit you with this spit ball!
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Hmmmmm - you mean some people get to talk to the graders??
Overall, a very positive move.
<< <i>Defendants represented to PCGS that these coins had natural surfaces.....
Hmmmmm - you mean some people get to talk to the graders??
Overall, a very positive move.
I am also very curious regarding who the named defendants are.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>If you ask me, this is bigger than the Big One! Get those coin doctors off the streets. >>
Yes indeed!
<< <i>
YIKES! >>
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>Al Rossman, Eric Steinberg, and Rick Westlake, with room for 25 more defendants. >>
Lou, please explain? Thanks.
Edited to add: I believe that the last name of the third person mentioned is incorrect.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It'll be interesting to hear a technical explanation about the difference between severe natural toning, vs accellerated toning vs artificial toning, from a metallurgic perspective.
I wonder if they'll offer some service to analyze all coins CURRENTLY in slabs and give a refund if they fall under the category AT.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Edited to add: To those who have refused to believe that proof gold coins have been lasered, merely because none have been shown here on the forum, please take note of this part of the press release and lawsuit: "....Their methods included lasering the surfaces of extremely rare proof gold coins to remove surface imperfections...."
<< <i>For now, a more accurate thread title would be something along the lines of " PCGS SUES COIN DOCTORS!" or " PCGS TAKES AIM AT COIN DOCTORS!" I hope that the eventual result ends up being " PCGS NAILS COIN DOCTORS!" >>
agreed. especially since names of defandants are being posted in the thread. I don't know any of the names mentioned, but it's important to remember that just because the PCGS Sniffer is calling out these dealers doesn't mean they have committed any crime... they still have their day in court first.
edited at add that it seems like some pretty cool technology though, will be interested to learn how it can differentiate between sniffing the bad stuff on a coin vs. sniffing out accepted "conservation" techniques like dipping coins.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>For now, a more accurate thread title would be something along the lines of " PCGS SUES COIN DOCTORS!" or " PCGS TAKES AIM AT COIN DOCTORS!" I hope that the eventual result ends up being " PCGS NAILS COIN DOCTORS!" >>
Ahhh, Mark. Don't be a wet blanket!
peacockcoins
It named:
Al Rossman
Eric Steinberg
Rick Wesslink
Silvano Digenova
Greg Krill
Robert Lehmann
Does 1-10
I do not know any of these guys. Who are they?
EAC 6024
<< <i>This is the Bigger One™, as far as I'm concerned.
My thoughts exactly.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
But how are they going to prove it?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Federal lawsuits and the documents filed therein are public records and available for review on line.
Reporting on the Langbord lawsuit on the U.S Coin Forums has been very interesting for me to do and satisfying.
With respect to the new lawsuit filed by PCGS, I would not report on that lawsuit unless PCGS gave me permission to do so. Even if PCGS did give me permission, I would be reluctant to do so since PCGS is our host and I want to be a good guest while participating on the forums that our host provides.
In any event, good luck to PCGS in the lawsuit
I don't know, but if they are going after triple damages, I expect they have good evidence of willful mis-behavior.
Go get 'em!
the big one
Now, I wish PCGS could determine when my coins definitely had AT, and not give me that questionable toning notation. Trying for a crossover from NGC or ANACS, on a coin in the holder for fifteen years, and getting a questionable toning notation, does not seem right.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
As for the possible defendants, I see a few people named in this thread (most I know). Does anybody know for sure that the people named are in fact actual defendants? I hope nobody is speculating and everything stated is factual.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Very interesting indeed.
I think what some fail to realize is this.....if I send in a coin and it bagged because the graders don't like the looks of the coin....even if it passes the sniff test, do really think they will put it in a graded holder??? PCGS still reserves the right to bag a coin for whatever reason they so choose so this may be good at keeping bad coins out of good holder if it works, but I don't think it will take good coins out of bad holder (genuine)
<< <i>
<< <i>For now, a more accurate thread title would be something along the lines of " PCGS SUES COIN DOCTORS!" or " PCGS TAKES AIM AT COIN DOCTORS!" I hope that the eventual result ends up being " PCGS NAILS COIN DOCTORS!" >>
agreed. especially since names of defandants are being posted in the thread. I don't know any of the names mentioned, but it's important to remember that just because the PCGS Sniffer is calling out these dealers doesn't mean they have committed any crime... they still have their day in court first.
edited at add that it seems like some pretty cool technology though, will be interested to learn how it can differentiate between sniffing the bad stuff on a coin vs. sniffing out accepted "conservation" techniques like dipping coins.
It would also be interesting "proving" that those who submitted the coins were the actual "doctors".
To me it appears that there is lot's of latitude regarding "who did what to what" other than submitting a coin for grading.
The name is LEE!
I wonder if the maker of this coin is on the "list".
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<< <i>I'll chime in and say that this is a move in the right direction for PCGS.
As for the possible defendants, I see a few people named in this thread (most I know). Does anybody know for sure that the people named are in fact actual defendants? I hope nobody is speculating and everything stated is factual. >>
I have seen a copy of the lawsuit. The names that poster DaveE listed in his post are contained therein.
<< <i>19lyds.
Federal lawsuits and the documents filed therein are public records and available for review on line.
Reporting on the Langbord lawsuit on the U.S Coin Forums has been very interesting for me to do and satisfying.
With respect to the new lawsuit filed by PCGS, I would not report on that lawsuit unless PCGS gave me permission to do so. Even if PCGS did give me permission, I would be reluctant to do so since PCGS is our host and I want to be a good guest while participating on the forums that our host provides.
In any event, good luck to PCGS in the lawsuit
I forgot that since PCGS hosts these forums, it would probably be in very bad taste. I'd be hesitant to actually name names as well since if the suit goes bad, I'm sure there'd be some of those named folks that might want to make you pay.
You could PM me some URL's though!
The name is LEE!