OWN3D BY ANACS (Was: Grades from down the street, next block over.)

flaminio · July 19, 2005 2:18AM

I just got my ass handed to me by ANACS, trying to cross PCGS MS69s into ANACS MS69s:

001 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
002 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
003 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
004 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
005 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement

This is the last dollar I need for my collection, but it looks like it won't happen this year.

I'm going to try tossing a couple NGCs into the mix. Lookee who just sold me one. Remember him

?

RYK · July 19, 2005 2:22AM

I just got my ass handed to me by ANACS, trying to cross PCGS MS69s into ANACS MS69s...

I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of?

flaminio · July 19, 2005 2:28AM

<< I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of? >>

Is that all there is to collecting -- the registry? Maybe I'm in a registry of 1.

Linkadoodles.

gamer1958 · July 19, 2005 2:35AM

I kind of like the light toning on the crispus attucks coin.

flaminio · July 19, 2005 2:43AM

<< I kind of like the light toning on the crispus attucks coin. >>

That happened inside the holder. The coin was white (ahem) when I bought it.

stev32k · July 19, 2005 3:05AM

I wonder how many of those ANACS MS69's would make MS70 at PCGS?

VAMs4U2BuyHere · July 19, 2005 3:05AM

I wonder... Do you think you would have had a better chance if you submitted them in the PCGS plastic and simply tried to cross???

flaminio · July 19, 2005 3:19AM

<< I wonder... Do you think you would have had a better chance if you submitted them in the PCGS plastic and simply tried to cross??? >>

Actually, that's what I did -- I wasn't so clear in my OP. The coins went to Dublin in PCGS MS69 holders, and they came back from Dublin in PCGS MS69 holders.

DennisH · July 19, 2005 3:24AM

Hope it doesn't hurt the value being in PCGS holders.

stev32k · July 19, 2005 3:41AM

It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same.

ddbird · July 19, 2005 3:52AM

I love ANACS...Not as easy to cherry pick from em anymore though. More people are starting to respect them.

*Disclaimer* I also love PCGS

flaminio · July 19, 2005 3:54AM

<< It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>

Sounds like an interesting experiment. Since these coins aren't particularly high-valued to begin with, I think I'll go for it. Bust 'em all out and try again raw, and see what comes back.

I hope the ANACS guys aren't reading this thread

....

Russellp23 · July 19, 2005 3:55AM

Nice collection!

VAMs4U2BuyHere · July 19, 2005 4:04AM

Flaminio - it was the way you wrote "ex-PCGS" which gave me the impression they were cracked & submitted raw.

I'll tell you, I find it highly suspicious that ANACS claims 5 out of 5 PCGS coins are OVERGRADED by ANACS standards.

PerryHall · July 19, 2005 4:19AM

ANACS has a reputation for being extremely conservative with high grade moderns. How many MS-70's have you seen in ANACS holders?

KurtHorn · July 19, 2005 4:24AM

<< ANACS has a reputation for being extremely conservative with high grade moderns. How many MS-70's have you seen in ANACS holders? >>

I agree totally. They are also rediculously tough with Washington's and also just about all gold coins.

anablep · July 19, 2005 4:27AM

They're tough on Morgans too.

ultradmpldollars · July 19, 2005 5:10AM

They're tough on Morgans too.

Not in all cases...I've seen some way overgraded, and a few that are undergraded..

As with any service..

stev32k · July 19, 2005 5:10AM

<<Sounds like an interesting experiment. Since these coins aren't particularly high-valued to begin with, I think I'll go for it. Bust 'em all out and try again raw, and see what comes back.>>

Let us know how it turns out. Should be very interesting.

TorinoCobra71 · July 19, 2005 5:11AM

Man you sure did, you must be living off of a TRUST to be able to submit all those coins.....

TorinoCobra71

stev32k · July 19, 2005 5:17AM

<< ANACS has a reputation for being extremely conservative with high grade moderns. How many MS-70's have you seen in ANACS holders?>>

I've been watching for about a year for ANACS MS70 coins - of any kind, and not one has shown up on ebay, TelTrade, or Heritage. I believe someone on the board said they had seen one at a show somewhere. Personally I think they are being tight to the point it's going to put them out of business. I like buying their coins, but I'm not willing to send any for grading unless it has problems.

ziggy29 · July 19, 2005 6:15AM

<< Personally I think they are being tight to the point it's going to put them out of business. I like buying their coins, but I'm not willing to send any for grading unless it has problems. >>

This, alas, is the prevailing attitude that leads to gradeflation.

beartracks42 · July 19, 2005 7:43AM

Bob,

Super collection!!

I think that the main thing regarding ANACS grading is "that they do not wander around as much as PCGS or NGC".!!! They seem to me to be extremely consistant. I have not sent a coin in an ANACS holder to PCGS that did not cross.

I also think that you might achieve your goal, if you send some of those coins in raw. It's a real hoot that some other TPG finds PCGS grades lacking.

Barry · July 19, 2005 7:56AM

I'll tell you, I find it highly suspicious that ANACS claims 5 out of 5 PCGS coins are OVERGRADED by ANACS standards.

Would you say the same thing if it was the other way around?

I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of?

With a comment like that, maybe you should change your handle to RYKBLAYNUMIS

ms70 · July 19, 2005 7:58AM

That's a reallly really nice collection flaminio!

VAMs4U2BuyHere · July 19, 2005 8:23AM

<< Would you say the same thing if it was the other way around? >>

I would indeed. The top three are the top three for good reasons. Subsequently the top three are always in direct competition with the other two.

There is a reason that the coins given to the graders have no identifying characteristics regarding the submitter. The reason is to eliminate potential favor, influence and bias. When a coin is graded in another TPG's plastic, the possibility of bias can never be removed. It's right there staring each & every grader right in the face, and possibly influencing the grade.

Now if the coins are resubmitted raw and one or more come back as 69, this still doesn't actually prove bias. It would, however, prove inconsistency, which we all full well know is something that is common in all TPG's.

flaminio · September 12, 2005 1:59AM

<< It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>

Done. I cracked out the five PCGS MS69s and resubmitted them raw. And I got totally OWNED:

001 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
002 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
003 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS66
004 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS67
005 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS68

Oh, man this is turning into a serious biatch of a coin to make. I might have to put a bounty out on it -- the grading fees alone are killing me for what should be an easy coin.

kryptonitecomics · September 12, 2005 2:11AM

It's tough for me to believe that a coin graded MS69 by PCGS could grade a 65 elsewhere.....but I would have to see the coins in hand to make a complete assessment.

291fifth · September 12, 2005 2:11AM

<< It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>

ANACS standards for these coins have always been very strict. I doubt if they are trying to give anyone a "black eye."

57cameonut · September 12, 2005 2:24AM

YOU GOT STIFFED ™

relayer · September 12, 2005 2:33AM

Good thing you're not trying to build the set in 70

DNADave · September 12, 2005 2:41AM

<< I just got my ass handed to me by ANACS, trying to cross PCGS MS69s into ANACS MS69s...

I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of? >>

Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS.

flaminio · September 13, 2005 1:49AM

<< Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS.

>>

Indeed.

OK, it's bounty time. I really don't want to go through another round of submissions for this coin. In a PCGS MS69 holder, this is a $30 coin. If any of you dealers out there can make me an ANACS MS69, I'll pay you $200 for it. So how's your eye? Think you can outthink ANACS?

KurtHorn · September 13, 2005 2:27AM

I like ANACS slabs especially. I like that they won't body bag, they'll net it instead. I like the service and the price. Re-sale price isn't quite there. You're on a very difficult quest. I think I've only seen a couple of ANACS MS 69 coins in my whole life. I think one of the most beautiful Washingtons I've ever had in my hand was an 1949 in ANACS MS 67. (I just sent it to NGC for cross...)

Good Luck on your quest!

PerryHall · September 13, 2005 3:23AM

ANACS will bodybag fakes and coins with active PVC contamination.

KurtHorn · September 13, 2005 3:36AM

<< ANACS will bodybag fakes and coins with active PVC contamination. >>

Actually with active PVC they send it back to you to correct then you can send it back to them for a nominal fee...

kieferscoins · September 13, 2005 3:45AM

<< 

<< ANACS will bodybag fakes and coins with active PVC contamination. >>

Actually with active PVC they send it back to you to correct then you can send it back to them for a nominal fee... >>

Really? I have had stuff bagged for PVC in the past and they say nothing about the nomial fee regrade. Its bodybagged and tough luck.

Cameron Kiefer

Nocerino18 · September 13, 2005 3:49AM

OWNED. I would be so angry I would stop buying ANACS if this happened to me.

Nocerino18 · September 13, 2005 3:51AM

<< 

<< Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS.

>>

Indeed.

OK, it's bounty time. I really don't want to go through another round of submissions for this coin. In a PCGS MS69 holder, this is a $30 coin. If any of you dealers out there can make me an ANACS MS69, I'll pay you $200 for it. So how's your eye? Think you can outthink ANACS? >>

Does anyone have the pop report on this coin in a MS69?

KurtHorn · September 13, 2005 3:56AM

<< Really? I have had stuff bagged for PVC in the past and they say nothing about the nomial fee regrade. Its bodybagged and tough luck. >>

Yes, in fact its on the front of the ANACS submission form... PVC Re-Grade ($5.00 per coin)

Of course you still eat the shipping costs too...

-Kurt-

DHeath · September 13, 2005 3:58AM

I moved all my Kennedy varieties and errors to ANACS some time back. Kudos on the set Bob. Good luck.

DickyBetz · September 13, 2005 4:11AM

Nice set! Good job!

flaminio · September 14, 2005 3:55AM

Thanks for the nice words on my set.

I'm going to list these on eBay. Do you think it would be considered keyword spamming if I put "ANACS MS65 ex-PCGS MS69" in the auction title? I'm not trying to louse up anyone's searches, but it is an accurate description of the item.

Nocerino18 · September 14, 2005 4:59AM

I don't think it would be wrong. If you have a copy or photos of the inserts that would probably help add to the value.

Did you ever find out the population report on the MS-69's?

flaminio · September 14, 2005 5:05AM

<< Did you ever find out the population report on the MS-69's? >>

Rats! I was going to look it up last night, but got totally caught up in something else, and forgot. I'll try to remember to check it tonight when I get home.

VamGuy · September 14, 2005 6:08AM

<< Done. I cracked out the five PCGS MS69s and resubmitted them raw. And I got totally OWNED:

001 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
002 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
003 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS66
004 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS67
005 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS68 >>

So based on the fact that the coins DNC when still holdered, and then came back as much as 4 MS grades lower when submitted raw, where is uproar of complaints that XXXX is severely overgrading.

I mean, to play devils advocate, if these coins were in NTC, NNC, ICG or PCI plastic, there would be a 200 post thread of condemnation. Why isn't the Numismatic Consumer Alliance (NCA) rushing to your side to file lawsuits.

Seriously though, why is a 4 grade drop so easily accepted?

On a lighter note, here's the most current info I have...

My Oct. 2004 ANACS pop report shows the 1983-D Olympic commem as follows:

Total: 35
MS66: 5
MS67: 11
MS68: 17
MS69: 2

leothelyon · September 14, 2005 7:06AM

So based on the fact that the coins DNC when still holdered, and then came back as much as 4 MS grades lower when submitted raw, where is uproar of complaints that XXXX is severely overgrading.:HMMMMM

NGC could use a few more posters.

Leo

Bob

Can you post some pics of those coins?

VamGuy · September 14, 2005 7:17AM

<< 

NGC could use a few more posters.

>>

WOW. You figured me out. I'm an NGC shill.

I'll bet you fingered that out by the sneaky way that I failed to even mention NGC in my post.
You must be some sort of dicktective.

Get over yourself skippy and grap another glass of kool-aid. I hold no candle for any grading company. I personally believe that PCGS is the best out here, but they make many, many mistakes.

So tell me, in your amateur, er, professional opinion, did PCGS overgrade by 4 points or did ANACS undergrade by 4 points?

Purple73 · September 14, 2005 7:42AM

Pretty big difference. 69 to 65 that is huge. I would like to know what they see that PCGS didn't see.

PURPLE!

flaminio · September 14, 2005 7:53AM

<< Can you post some pics of those coins? >>

Sure.

ANACS MS65

ANACS MS65

ANACS MS66

ANACS MS67

ANACS MS68

billboat · September 14, 2005 8:18AM

<< 

<< >>

So based on the fact that the coins DNC when still holdered, and then came back as much as 4 MS grades lower when submitted raw, where is uproar of complaints that XXXX is severely overgrading.

I mean, to play devils advocate, if these coins were in NTC, NNC, ICG or PCI plastic, there would be a 200 post thread of condemnation. Why isn't the Numismatic Consumer Alliance (NCA) rushing to your side to file lawsuits.

<< 

Excellent points--I'm sure that NCA will jump on this soon!

OWN3D BY ANACS (Was: Grades from down the street, next block over.)

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