Yes/No? Buffalo nickels are one of the toughest series to grade?

Manorcourtman · April 23, 2015 7:20AM

Does anyone else find that Buff nicks are one of the toughest series to grade? I'd argue that the differences between 58 and 63 can be almost impossible to detect, especially when the coin is weakly struck!! Post a confusing Buff if you have one!! Experts feel free to chime in with grading hints!

david3142 · April 23, 2015 7:24AM

Agreed. Massive strike differences can make grading tricky all the way down into the lower circulated grades. Someone recently posted an MS63 buffalo with a partial date. I have seen MS coins in person with VF detail on the reverse. The obverse can frequently also be found weak and mushy, particularly on mid-20s branch mint coins.

keyman64 · April 23, 2015 7:26AM

ABSOLUTELY!...when you get into the AU58 or higher grades anyway.

AMRC · April 23, 2015 7:46AM

For me it is the inclused gold.

Ajjohnson77 · April 23, 2015 7:47AM

Only in non mint state examples.

I'm thinking some early copper is a lot harder to grade.

jcping · April 23, 2015 7:59AM

<< For me it is the inclused gold. >>

+1, these little indian gold coins are challenge to grade

CuKevin · April 23, 2015 8:02AM

I agree! Incused gold being a close second.

hchcoin · April 23, 2015 8:43AM

A definite yes !!!! I am humbled and amazed when I try to grade buffalo nickels. It seems like every date has a different grading standard

TopographicOceans · April 23, 2015 8:48AM

Definitely for me.

FullHorn · April 23, 2015 8:56AM

koynekwest · April 23, 2015 11:11AM

Yes indeed!

joeykoins · April 23, 2015 11:12AM

In a word, YES!

Shamika · April 23, 2015 1:27PM

The trick (not really a trick) is to know the strike characteristics of each date/mm. There are 64 date/mm combinations. Once you have this down, grading is much easier to figure out.

But it's still hard as hell.

Moldnut · April 23, 2015 1:58PM

I agree with them being hard to grade the weak strikes. Not to mention that most don't want to pay UNC money for a coin that looks VF.

koynekwest · April 23, 2015 2:40PM

Not just the strike-coins from worn out dies complicate the issue as much as and maybe more than the strike.

291fifth · April 23, 2015 5:29PM

True. The other non-gold series that is difficult to grade is Standing Liberty Quarters.

My own guideline is simple:

If in doubt, it goes to the lower grade. Strike does matter. Weakly struck coins DON'T deserve the benefit of the doubt.

BUFFNIXX · April 23, 2015 9:12PM

I bought a 1937-p buff from a local coin dealer for 10 bucks. So nice I thought it had
a lock on ms66. Sent it to pcgs and it comes back an ms64! So after all these years
I still have a hard time grading these coins. Yes, they can be a problem.

Boosibri · April 23, 2015 9:17PM

<< For me it is the inclused gold. >>

ricko · April 23, 2015 9:52PM

Buffs are definitely a challenge.... so many variables (as mentioned above). Still, a great series and an interesting challenge for those who enjoy coins...Cheers, RickO

BillJones · April 23, 2015 10:39PM

I would say that the Standing Liberty Quarter is harder. I seldom agree with what most people call EF and AU. To me they look like they are over graded by a full grade.

koynekwest · April 23, 2015 10:51PM

The 1935-D pictured above is an example of both a weak strike AND a worn die. Many of the substandard coins in this series suffer from this combination.

tahoe98 · April 24, 2015 12:37AM

<< The trick (not really a trick) is to know the strike characteristics of each date/mm. There are 64 date/mm combinations. Once you have this down, grading is much easier to figure out.

But it's still hard as hell. >>

...INDEED THIS!

tahoe98 · April 24, 2015 12:39AM

<< True. The other non-gold series that is difficult to grade is Standing Liberty Quarters.

My own guideline is simple:

If in doubt, it goes to the lower grade. Strike does matter. Weakly struck coins DON'T deserve the benefit of the doubt. >>

...

david3142 · April 24, 2015 12:45AM

I will also agree that SLQs are hard to grade. However, I only own a few of them so I don't have the same experience as I do with buffaloes (of which I own a complete set).
That 1935-D posted looks like an XF63

My buffalo set is mostly circulated (as that was all I could afford in my early 20s) so I got to be very good at grading G-VF coins. I had absolutely no clue about MS coins. I am better with those now, but they can still be tricky at times, particularly with weak strikes/worn dies as others have mentioned.

rec78 · April 24, 2015 1:10AM

Agree-- because of strike and some dates just don't wear like others and some are low detail to begin with but I can tell a vf from a vf. My most difficult to grade series is walking liberty halves I can't tell a vg from a vf sometimes. But then I do not have much interest in walking liberty halves and have not studied the series to be a successful grader of them. Also Peace dollars. Again, If you don't have much interest in a series, It will be tougher to grade because you don't want to spent the time learning to grade them properly. JMHO...

Bob

Overdate · April 24, 2015 3:36AM

I would expect that the toughest to grade would be weakly struck, lightly circulated buffaloes. Once the luster is gone, how would you tell whether a coin is a weak strike XF or an average strike VF? And how would you convince a buyer to pay up for the former?

johnny9434 · April 25, 2015 2:13AM

always had trouble grading them here.

winky · April 25, 2015 2:30AM

Yes it is. I have to have someone else to get a good grade on Buff's, just tough to grade. Also one of the most beautiful coins.

crazyhounddog · April 25, 2015 2:40AM

Yes they are and that's why I love em.

coinkat · April 25, 2015 5:50AM

Its all about understanding the series

grip · April 25, 2015 8:25AM

<< For me it is the inclused gold. >>

DeepCoin · April 25, 2015 8:57AM

I am also in the camp of inclused gold. I almost typed incurred, as it bedevils me. That is not to say that Buffs are easy, they are right up there in terms of hard to grade.

Ronyahski · April 25, 2015 9:19AM

Grading Buffs got a lot easier for me after taking an ANA seminar with Bill Fivaz. A couple of his tips: the first place he looks to for wear is the high point of the upper hind quarters of the buffalo. The first place he looks to for strike is the separation of the hair braids in the ponytail.

Another vote for incused gold. I want to collect the series, but have little confidence in being able to grade them. Working on it.

david3142 · April 25, 2015 10:30AM

I was looking through Heritage's internet sale and thought this would be a great example for this thread. Either the dies were too far apart on this and/or it was VERY weakly struck:

1929-D MS61

Otherwise it seems to have nice color and be relatively mark-free.

machoponcho · April 27, 2015 7:53AM

Totally agree with OP. Flat luster makes 58 and lower MS nearly indistinguishable. Market reflects this. There are auction results of certain AU58 Buffs, even AU55, that are more in line with MS62/63 prices.

Broadstruck · April 27, 2015 7:57AM

No... Shield nickels are tougher

crazyhounddog · April 27, 2015 8:09AM

<< 

<< For me it is the inclused gold. >>

>>

For any gold series of coins I'll agree 100%.....

DIMEMAN · April 27, 2015 8:39AM

I agree Buff's then Standing Quarters.

au58 · April 27, 2015 11:01AM

In order:
Incused gold
Standing Liberty Quarters
Buffalo Nickels

segoja · April 27, 2015 3:26PM

Buffalos are a neat series with lots of nuances.

Many other series with nuances, but they can be figured out if you take the time to study the series closely.

crazyhounddog · April 28, 2015 3:38AM

And I find them irresistible......

Yes/No? Buffalo nickels are one of the toughest series to grade?

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