1) Greed? Give me a break. So far this venture has lost five figures in four full months of operation. It's a long term proposition and benefits those that want the product for legitimate purposes. Not a great way to get rich quick. >>
Just curious how you lose money on OGP, isn't the cost basically zero to you? What with the acquistion and grading costs being built into the graded coin stock the leftover OGP is just gravy. >>
Id also love to know how one loses tens of thousands of dollars over 4 months ? There was no problem prior to now so how is it possible ? >>
The loss so far was to be expected I was merely pointing it out to demonstrate that it isn't greed driven or a get rich quick scheme it's a longer term investment. There are start up costs, staff costs, equipment costs, marketing costs, and all the normal expenses associated with opening and running a business (rent, utilities, website, etc) I think most would understand these points without me having to spell them out, but there you go.
John >>
Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's? How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you? (Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s).)
Hey John, when are you going to start carring replacement Perth Mint capsules ? ! ? !
Now that would be a high demand item ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Now I'm gonna burn all of my OGP in effigy! Maybe I can make it a block party and invite all my neighbors. That would give me the perfect opportunity to discuss the merits of coin collecting and stacking to all attendees.
You have the sports card and autograph sellers to thank for this policy; they are why ebay created the policy in the first place. It's no big secret that there has been an ongoing problem of bogus autographs paired with both real and bogus COAs/LOAs- also there were sellers offering blank or generic COAs for sale. Thus, ebay made it illegal to offer COAs as a stand-alone product. As said before, this was originally aimed at the sports collectible and autograph areas, but the rule overlaps into the coin category now-most likely due to sports card/autograph guys whining and complaining about coin sellers selling COAs, GSA cards, etc. and not getting called for it. Much like those modern OGP sellers who are now complaining about the GSA box/card sellers out there....YES, there are still some sellers of that stuff- but if they get reported, they'll pull those auctions as well. Welcome to ebay, folks. Play by their rules or don't play. I sympathize with John Maben to a point- it stinks that your auctions got pulled after all that work- but frankly some detective work before listing 300 auctions would have revealed the appropriate rules and saved you time, hassle and money. Not that I'm lily white myself; we've learned the hard way on other things in the past after getting listings pulled -so now we take the time to peruse the (ever-changing) policy section before branching out into anything new. It's a pain, but unfortunately necessary now with the constant evolution of Ebay.
"Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's? How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you? (Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit. Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed. Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?) So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold....
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I do not care one way or the other but i think ebay has done you a favor since you are losing money.
Of course it has been stated a lot of times on here that the fee CAC charges does not add to their bottom line.
Ebay does not have the ability to make exceptions for every one of their sellers nor do they want to. They just make a rule and sometimes it hits some harder than others. Work within the guidelines and move on.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>"Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's? How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you? (Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit. Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed. Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?) So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold.... >>
A couple of quick notes here John. First, I know we don't know each other and sometimes the written word is easily misinterpreted. Secondly, I agree with your overall position here, as you stated. Third, I wouldn't have known about your startup costs had you not brought it up and assuming you're the author of this thread and your own posts, figured it did have something to do with the topic at hand.
<< <i>"Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's? How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you? (Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit. Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed. Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?) So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold.... >>
You didnt "say" the loss was down to ebay , but why then mention it in the ebay rant thread ? It only has anything to do with the thread because you yourself put it out there.
So- here's a seller who's trying to provide a product that buyers want and people who appear to be neither customers nor prospective customers are unhappy about it because of some imagined problem that might occur if the items being offered for sale are misused. Might as well ban everything from being sold on eBay, as I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to think of a way to misuse anything.
<<So- here's a seller who's trying to provide a product that buyers want and people who appear to be neither customers nor prospective customers are unhappy about it because of some imagined problem that might occur if the items being offered for sale are misused. Might as well ban everything from being sold on eBay, as I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to think of a way to misuse anything. >>
<< <i>So- here's a seller who's trying to provide a product that buyers want and people who appear to be neither customers nor prospective customers are unhappy about it because of some imagined problem that might occur if the items being offered for sale are misused. Might as well ban everything from being sold on eBay, as I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to think of a way to misuse anything. >>
You can misuse anything I suppose but you have to draw the line somewhere. That is what the brains at ebay do for all that money they make. They call it judgement since you have to admit some things have a higher chance of misuse. THat is why they don't allow sales of dead peoples bodies and hand grenades. ...Or do they?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I do not care one way or the other but i think ebay has done you a favor since you are losing money.
Of course it has been stated a lot of times on here that the fee CAC charges does not add to their bottom line.
Ebay does not have the ability to make exceptions for every one of their sellers nor do they want to. They just make a rule and sometimes it hits some harder than others. Work within the guidelines and move on. >>
I agree with you! And trust me this whole rant and thread is NOT helping John's business.
Why not just list them on your website? A note with items sold directing potential customers to the listings on your site would work. Not as much exposure, but a lot less fees.
These are listed at ogpworld.com however these days online businesses need numerous "channels", not just one. If ogpworld is forced to say goodbye to eBay then so be it. The whole purpose of this thread was to see what views others had on the matter. Many have been expressed from "makes sense to me" to "just circumvent the policy" to "It makes no sense to me" to "It makes no difference to me either way" to "I see absolutely nothing wrong with it".
Fact remains, they trade and have for many years and it's never been considered a bad thing. Fact is generic mass produced COA's can not be matched to individual coins short of putting a marking on the COA and the coin at time of production, encapsulating both together at time of production, or using extremely advanced digital imaging technology at the time of production of the coin. They are not paintings, they are not autographs, and they are not baseball cards. Fact is many collectors want complete OGP (down to the gold foil cards in 10th anniversary sets) to complete their collections because a bazillion coins have been sold in capsules and TPG holders with no OGP.
The guy that said eBay is shooting a gnat with a shotgun was right on target. It's all good. The marketplace will speak over the longer term and others have and will continue to sell OGP in it's COMPLETE form (not minus a component of that OGP) just not on eBay if the policy stands.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
A lot of people seem to be concerned that Chinese counterfeiters will buy COAs because it would be easier than printing them themselves. I wonder how many bulk sales of COAs to China there have been to date. I mean- it sure wouldn't be easier for counterfeiters to buy them one at a time from sellers in the US than to have their own printed in bulk in China, would it?
Well if I was Johns company I'd use pic of only the closed outer box and display case. Make no mention of COA but describe as "complete original government packaging OGP as from mint, capsules included, at the same cost as before.
Just include the coa without saying it is included...
<<Mark my words, within 5 years, eBay may ban the sale of all coins...period...end of story. And this will also be a $$$ decision>>
Well now I see that eBay has essentially now stabbed ANACS in the back/head/neck by essentially banning their slabs from some types of sale arrangments come May!
<< <i>A lot of people seem to be concerned that Chinese counterfeiters will buy COAs because it would be easier than printing them themselves. I wonder how many bulk sales of COAs to China there have been to date. I mean- it sure wouldn't be easier for counterfeiters to buy them one at a time from sellers in the US than to have their own printed in bulk in China, would it? >>
This is very naive , i believe many replies are skewed to suit various agendas.What's to stop US buyers of Chinese fakes pairing these with C.O.A's ? There's the problem , not the Chinese.
I'm not going to read through all the replies, but here's my response to the thread:
I was on the phone with ebay yesterday to discuss something and I took a moment to ask them about this situation. At least with the person I was speaking to, it sounds like their general stance is that OGP shouldn't be allowed at all, but plenty slips through (I don't agree with the rule, but that may be the letter of the law). Anyway, while talking with him, I had an idea that may be worth pushing (especially by someone like John who likely has more clout as this directly affects him and he does more volume than I). After explaining how coin packaging/COAs are different from, say, an autograph's COA, I suggested they have a category just for packaging. It would be broken down with the coin categories such as:
Coin Packaging >Silver Eagles >Gold Eagles >Platinum Eagles >Commems >GSA Dollars (though these have numbered COAs...) >Proof Sets >Mint Sets
If an item is listed here, it can't be listed in a coin category, which keeps people from accidentally buying packaging when they wanted the coin (those people are idiots, but they're out in full force...) They could even have a warning on each listing reminding people that they're not getting a coin. The idea is that those who want OGP know exactly where to go, and there's no way a sensible person could be misled to thinking they're getting a steal on a full-blown set.
"Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?)"
John: My wife made me do exactly that about (7) years ... I even had to pay the waste disposal company $160 to haul it all away! When the empty proof gold boxes were selling for $100-$150 a pop a couple years back (and I was "forced" to toss away a huge dumpster full of those alone), if what she made me do did not lead to a divorce I knew nothing would. LOL.
Wondercoin ((30) years with the same lady)
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I think airplanenut's idea is a logical compromise. Mitch, over the years we've thrown out a bunch too due to space limitations and not really knowing how to market it without spending an inordinate amount of time doing so.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>I haven't read the thread but it seems to me that a COA is useless if a scammer can buy one on ebay and attache it to fake coins. --Jerry >>
Well they are useless. What purpuse do they serve? They are mass produced and are nothing but people want them. Fine, give it to them. If someone wants to fake a COA its not hard and I would say much easier than buying a few off ebay. This horse has been beat to within an inch of his life at this point. The only reason I even care is that people pay more with OGP as a rule.
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
<< <i>Maybe PCGS should certify/slab the COAs! - Ian >>
You may say that in jest but I wonder if it would be helpfull if the Mint would make a coa with a removable encoded magnetic strip on it that PCGS could incorporate into the holder. At least on the higher dollar coins. >>
Wow.
That sounds like a great idea!
Say. why not go 1 simple step further and simply ask the US Mint to devise a method whereby the coin gets a serial number imbedded into its obverse when its minted and a like COA with that same serial number gets printed at the same time?
Yeah! I think I'm on to something!
Maybe we could then have "Star" coins. You know, where the coin didn't meet QC so it was "reminted" (along with the accompanying COA)?
Lets get together and kick the counterfeiters butts by inventing some insane procedures since its a whiole lot easier to do that instead of educating ourselves on what a counterfeit coin actually looks like!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
1) Greed? Give me a break. So far this venture has lost five figures in four full months of operation. It's a long term proposition and benefits those that want the product for legitimate purposes. Not a great way to get rich quick. >>
Just curious how you lose money on OGP, isn't the cost basically zero to you? What with the acquistion and grading costs being built into the graded coin stock the leftover OGP is just gravy. >>
Id also love to know how one loses tens of thousands of dollars over 4 months ? There was no problem prior to now so how is it possible ? >>
Maybe "Storage Costs"? The man sells hundreds of thousands of these and storing that OGP along with those pesky COA's takes up a lot of space.
It's the primary reason I trashed my OGP and COA's for my Silver Eagles a long time ago. Too Much Space!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Is anyone here aware of any frauds that have ever been committed on eBay or anywhere else that involve genuine coin COA's? How would one do that? You can't very well place a Jackie Robinson $5 Gold COA in with a $5 Statue of liberty? Further, the COA's are stuffed in boxes on a production line with no regard for matching a particular COA to a particular coin, only that it is the correct coin not a specific coin. Determining if the correct coin is matched with the correct COA is something a third grader could easily do. As pointed out by cheezhed, why are CC dollar COA's any different? >>
If COA's serve no purpose then why would someone want to pay money for them? Is there a market for the tissue paper also? >>
Because collectors are a fickle bunch. We are obsessed with complete sets.
Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. As with the fear of the Chinese flooding the market with counterfeit coins if they could only get their hands on these COAs, no evidence has been provided that either has actually happened. But they might, so we must remain ever vigilant as the evildoers hate our freedom to collect as we please. Prohibiting the sale of COAs is just the price we have to pay.
<< <i>I haven't read the thread but it seems to me that a COA is useless if a scammer can buy one on ebay and attache it to fake coins. --Jerry >>
Well they are useless. What purpuse do they serve? They are mass produced and are nothing but people want them. Fine, give it to them. If someone wants to fake a COA its not hard and I would say much easier than buying a few off ebay. This horse has been beat to within an inch of his life at this point. The only reason I even care is that people pay more with OGP as a rule. >>
If you are a collector and an occasional seller, you want that packaging with the coins you buy on the secondary market to give legitimacy and for resell. Not everybody keeps their coins forever. Sometimes we sell to buy something we like better. Or the price just gets too high not to cash out (UHRs). My suggestion to dealers and regular sellers is to offer the OGP for a fee with the slabbed coins that recoups the cost or makes some profit. Many buyers will pay extra for it, I'm one of them.
For those wishing to sell US Mint COAs on eBay, it may be important to educate collectors and eBay staff on the differences between US Mint COAs and other COAs (autographs, sports memorabilia, China Mint, etc.). Since there may be a significant percentage of casual coin collectors that place faith in US Mint COAs and there are eBay guides describing the importance of COAs for other coins and collectibles, it might be useful to write an eBay guide to describe the situation for US Mint coins. Since there are already genuine COAs paired with fake coins and fake US Mint COAs (1.5-2% of the 1000 proof ASEs reported by Ian), it might be useful to also mention why you think those may not be an issue with US Mint coins.
My impression is that it's primarily TPG collectors that value COAs less. Unless non-TPG casual coin collectors can also be convinced, and they may be the majority, eBay's policy will likely do some good in protecting them.
<< <i>Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. As with the fear of the Chinese flooding the market with counterfeit coins if they could only get their hands on these COAs, no evidence has been provided that either has actually happened. But they might, so we must remain ever vigilant as the evildoers hate our freedom to collect as we please. Prohibiting the sale of COAs is just the price we have to pay. >>
During the period when the chinese fakes were allowed on ebay it was quite obvious americans were buying and commen knowledge the coins were not marked copy.Is it too much of a stretch to think americans might be the ones that want these C.O.A's for reasons other than clung to here in this thread ? A member posted a site where fake star spangled commems were offered only days ago.Who's buying them is what the question is and the answer pretty obvious.
<< <i>Is anyone here aware of any frauds that have ever been committed on eBay or anywhere else that involve genuine coin COA's? How would one do that? You can't very well place a Jackie Robinson $5 Gold COA in with a $5 Statue of liberty? Further, the COA's are stuffed in boxes on a production line with no regard for matching a particular COA to a particular coin, only that it is the correct coin not a specific coin. Determining if the correct coin is matched with the correct COA is something a third grader could easily do. As pointed out by cheezhed, why are CC dollar COA's any different? >>
If COA's serve no purpose then why would someone want to pay money for them? Is there a market for the tissue paper also? >>
Because collectors are a fickle bunch. We are obsessed with complete sets. >>
That is true. I guess I need to start selling my packing paper, tissue paper, and boxes on ebay for the really big bucks out there. After all, how could a coin be complete without the shipping box it came in?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. >>
Sounds just like the kind of argument my wife would make. The more remote the likelihood of something happening, the more she embraces it. >>
Here's something else to worry about- somebody could make a paper airplane with a pointy tip out of a COA and put somebody else's eye out by throwing it. With COAs apparently banned, *that* won't happen now.
As a lifetime coin buff, I am in daily touch with a good number of high end ebay sellers that are constantly raising sand about ebay and their almost daily rule changes and rediculous assumptions about their customer activity.
Some years ago when ebay wanted to know my SSI, my complete financial history, how many toes I had and my mothers maiden name - I left with no forwarding address. (A decision I have come to embrace and rejoice over)
Now, in MHO, ebay has drafted and been constantly refining A REALLY GOOD PLAN TO PUT THEMSELVES OUT OF THE AUCTION BUSINESS. (MAYBE BY DESIGN)---and I really am surprised that no competition has arisen from this.
Not bashing nor defending, Just living in the last century where "The CUSTOMER was always Right" and a rolodex was a good thing to have.
And this situation is not unique to EBAY.
Hosspower is just plain "FUN". A Spade is a Spade. We all want mo Money. And everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody wanna Die !!
OK. I just figured out. This isn't just the COA. It is the OGP US Mint boxes.
I have sold those and included the COA. Based on this thread I would handle it thusly:
"For Sale is the original mint packaging for a 1986 US Gold Eagle 4 coin set. The packing is complete and includes packaging materials provided by the US Mint."
If I wanted to go farther I might say this, "Ebay does not allow the sale of COAs without the coins. If you need the COA you will have to contact me outside of ebay."
Now, in MHO, ebay has drafted and been constantly refining A REALLY GOOD PLAN TO PUT THEMSELVES OUT OF THE AUCTION BUSINESS. (MAYBE BY DESIGN)-- . >>
well this was in yesterdays news...
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
I would refer you to a quote by P.T. Barnum - "There is one born every minute."
Hosspower is just plain "FUN". A Spade is a Spade. We all want mo Money. And everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody wanna Die !!
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
I would refer you to a quote by P.T. Barnum - "There is one born every minute." >>
but I think 12% of 109 million is a little more than one a minute. To each, their own, of course. I have been on eBay since 1999 (same ID) and have feedback of 375, so I am not exactly a power user myself. I will say I have saved 50% or more from retail, and sold some unique items for unreal money, where I would not have been able to myself, otherwise.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A few more points to consider:
1) Greed? Give me a break. So far this venture has lost five figures in four full months of operation. It's a long term proposition and benefits those that want the product for legitimate purposes. Not a great way to get rich quick.
>>
Just curious how you lose money on OGP, isn't the cost basically zero to you? What with the acquistion and grading costs being built into the graded coin stock the leftover OGP is just gravy. >>
Id also love to know how one loses tens of thousands of dollars over 4 months ? There was no problem prior to now so how is it possible ? >>
The loss so far was to be expected I was merely pointing it out to demonstrate that it isn't greed driven or a get rich quick scheme it's a longer term investment. There are start up costs, staff costs, equipment costs, marketing costs, and all the normal expenses associated with opening and running a business (rent, utilities, website, etc) I think most would understand these points without me having to spell them out, but there you go.
John >>
Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's?
How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you?
(Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s).)
Now that would be a high demand item ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Welcome to ebay, folks. Play by their rules or don't play.
I sympathize with John Maben to a point- it stinks that your auctions got pulled after all that work- but frankly some detective work before listing 300 auctions would have revealed the appropriate rules and saved you time, hassle and money. Not that I'm lily white myself; we've learned the hard way on other things in the past after getting listings pulled -so now we take the time to peruse the (ever-changing) policy section before branching out into anything new. It's a pain, but unfortunately necessary now with the constant evolution of Ebay.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Hey John, when are you going to start carring replacement Perth Mint capsules ? ! ? !
Now that would be a high demand item ! ! !
HH >>
I have 1 oz silver Perth caps for Lunar II if anyone is looking. Won't work with series I
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>include a lincoln cent with each COA you list. >>
That is what you might call compliance with the letter but not the spirit of the law (rule). Might tick them off.
How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you?
(Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit.
Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so
but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed.
Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?)
So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold....
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Of course it has been stated a lot of times on here that the fee CAC charges does not add to their bottom line.
Ebay does not have the ability to make exceptions for every one of their sellers nor do they want to. They just make a rule and sometimes it hits some harder than others. Work within the guidelines and move on.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>"Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's?
How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you?
(Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit.
Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so
but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed.
Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?)
So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold.... >>
A couple of quick notes here John.
First, I know we don't know each other and sometimes the written word is easily misinterpreted.
Secondly, I agree with your overall position here, as you stated.
Third, I wouldn't have known about your startup costs had you not brought it up and assuming you're the author of this thread and your own posts, figured
it did have something to do with the topic at hand.
Anyways... moving on. . .
<< <i>LOL you guys. >>
Rolling my eyes and shaking my head
<< <i>"Wouldn't you have those same start-up costs whether or not you sell or sold these COA's?
How, specifically does the ending of your multiple auctions by eBay constitute a four figure loss to you?
(Please correct, if I'm wrong, but eBay even refunds your listing fees when they kill your auction(s)"
I never said the loss was attributed to eBay. Most new business's take one to two years to turn a profit.
Yes, the loss is due mainly to start up costs. It's 4 months new. I hope to be making money after a year or so
but really what does any of this have to do with the topic? I only brought it up because of the allegation made of greed.
Maybe I should just call a waste disposal company and send it all to a landfill, then I wouldn't be greedy. (?)
So far, we've given away (free) far more more than we've sold.... >>
You didnt "say" the loss was down to ebay , but why then mention it in the ebay rant thread ? It only has anything to do with the thread because you yourself put it out there.
Seriously, I think he explained it already. (and my guess probably regrets bringing it up) You know how we can sometimes drift.
Amen to that, brother!
<< <i>So- here's a seller who's trying to provide a product that buyers want and people who appear to be neither customers nor prospective customers are unhappy about it because of some imagined problem that might occur if the items being offered for sale are misused. Might as well ban everything from being sold on eBay, as I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to think of a way to misuse anything. >>
You can misuse anything I suppose but you have to draw the line somewhere. That is what the brains at ebay do for all that money they make.
<< <i>I do not care one way or the other but i think ebay has done you a favor since you are losing money.
Of course it has been stated a lot of times on here that the fee CAC charges does not add to their bottom line.
Ebay does not have the ability to make exceptions for every one of their sellers nor do they want to. They just make a rule and sometimes it hits some harder than others. Work within the guidelines and move on. >>
I agree with you! And trust me this whole rant and thread is NOT helping John's business.
<< <i>
<< <i>LOL you guys. >>
Rolling my eyes and shaking my head >>
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>LOL you guys. >>
Rolling my eyes and shaking my head >>
My wife just left me because she caught me making out with my computer screen!!
Why not just list them on your website? A note with items sold directing potential customers to the
listings on your site would work. Not as much exposure, but a lot less fees.
Lou
ANA Life-Member
These are listed at ogpworld.com however these days online businesses need numerous "channels", not just one. If ogpworld is forced to say goodbye to eBay then so be it. The whole purpose of this thread was to see what views others had on the matter. Many have been expressed from "makes sense to me" to "just circumvent the policy" to "It makes no sense to me" to "It makes no difference to me either way" to "I see absolutely nothing wrong with it".
Fact remains, they trade and have for many years and it's never been considered a bad thing. Fact is generic mass produced COA's can not be matched to individual coins short of putting a marking on the COA and the coin at time of production, encapsulating both together at time of production, or using extremely advanced digital imaging technology at the time of production of the coin. They are not paintings, they are not autographs, and they are not baseball cards. Fact is many collectors want complete OGP (down to the gold foil cards in 10th anniversary sets) to complete their collections because a bazillion coins have been sold in capsules and TPG holders with no OGP.
The guy that said eBay is shooting a gnat with a shotgun was right on target. It's all good. The marketplace will speak over the longer term and others have and will continue to sell OGP in it's COMPLETE form (not minus a component of that OGP) just not on eBay if the policy stands.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
describe as "complete original government packaging OGP as from mint, capsules included, at the same cost as before.
Just include the coa without saying it is included...
Well now I see that eBay has essentially now stabbed ANACS in the back/head/neck by essentially banning their slabs from some types of sale arrangments come May!
And the hits just keep on coming!
<< <i>A lot of people seem to be concerned that Chinese counterfeiters will buy COAs because it would be easier than printing them themselves. I wonder how many bulk sales of COAs to China there have been to date. I mean- it sure wouldn't be easier for counterfeiters to buy them one at a time from sellers in the US than to have their own printed in bulk in China, would it? >>
This is very naive , i believe many replies are skewed to suit various agendas.What's to stop US buyers of Chinese fakes pairing these with C.O.A's ?
There's the problem , not the Chinese.
I was on the phone with ebay yesterday to discuss something and I took a moment to ask them about this situation. At least with the person I was speaking to, it sounds like their general stance is that OGP shouldn't be allowed at all, but plenty slips through (I don't agree with the rule, but that may be the letter of the law). Anyway, while talking with him, I had an idea that may be worth pushing (especially by someone like John who likely has more clout as this directly affects him and he does more volume than I). After explaining how coin packaging/COAs are different from, say, an autograph's COA, I suggested they have a category just for packaging. It would be broken down with the coin categories such as:
Coin Packaging
>Silver Eagles
>Gold Eagles
>Platinum Eagles
>Commems
>GSA Dollars (though these have numbered COAs...)
>Proof Sets
>Mint Sets
If an item is listed here, it can't be listed in a coin category, which keeps people from accidentally buying packaging when they wanted the coin (those people are idiots, but they're out in full force...) They could even have a warning on each listing reminding people that they're not getting a coin. The idea is that those who want OGP know exactly where to go, and there's no way a sensible person could be misled to thinking they're getting a steal on a full-blown set.
John: My wife made me do exactly that about (7) years ... I even had to pay the waste disposal company $160 to haul it all away! When the empty proof gold boxes were selling for $100-$150 a pop a couple years back (and I was "forced" to toss away a huge dumpster full of those alone), if what she made me do did not lead to a divorce I knew nothing would. LOL.
Wondercoin ((30) years with the same lady)
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I should take my us mint bought coins out of the safe
and put the boxes, and packaging material into the safe.
<< <i>I haven't read the thread but it seems to me that a COA is useless if a scammer can buy one on ebay and attache it to fake coins. --Jerry >>
Well they are useless. What purpuse do they serve? They are mass produced and are nothing but people want them. Fine, give it to them. If someone wants to fake a COA its not hard and I would say much easier than buying a few off ebay. This horse has been beat to within an inch of his life at this point. The only reason I even care is that people pay more with OGP as a rule.
<< <i>Maybe PCGS should certify/slab the COAs! - Ian >>
You may say that in jest but I wonder if it would be helpfull if the Mint would make a coa with a removable encoded magnetic strip on it that PCGS could incorporate into the holder. At least on the higher dollar coins. >>
Wow.
That sounds like a great idea!
Say. why not go 1 simple step further and simply ask the US Mint to devise a method whereby the coin gets a serial number imbedded into its obverse when its minted and a like COA with that same serial number gets printed at the same time?
Yeah! I think I'm on to something!
Maybe we could then have "Star" coins. You know, where the coin didn't meet QC so it was "reminted" (along with the accompanying COA)?
Lets get together and kick the counterfeiters butts by inventing some insane procedures since its a whiole lot easier to do that instead of educating ourselves on what a counterfeit coin actually looks like!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A few more points to consider:
1) Greed? Give me a break. So far this venture has lost five figures in four full months of operation. It's a long term proposition and benefits those that want the product for legitimate purposes. Not a great way to get rich quick.
>>
Just curious how you lose money on OGP, isn't the cost basically zero to you? What with the acquistion and grading costs being built into the graded coin stock the leftover OGP is just gravy. >>
Id also love to know how one loses tens of thousands of dollars over 4 months ? There was no problem prior to now so how is it possible ? >>
Maybe "Storage Costs"?
The man sells hundreds of thousands of these and storing that OGP along with those pesky COA's takes up a lot of space.
It's the primary reason I trashed my OGP and COA's for my Silver Eagles a long time ago. Too Much Space!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Is anyone here aware of any frauds that have ever been committed on eBay or anywhere else that involve genuine coin COA's? How would one do that? You can't very well place a Jackie Robinson $5 Gold COA in with a $5 Statue of liberty? Further, the COA's are stuffed in boxes on a production line with no regard for matching a particular COA to a particular coin, only that it is the correct coin not a specific coin. Determining if the correct coin is matched with the correct COA is something a third grader could easily do. As pointed out by cheezhed, why are CC dollar COA's any different? >>
If COA's serve no purpose then why would someone want to pay money for them? Is there a market for the tissue paper also? >>
Because collectors are a fickle bunch. We are obsessed with complete sets.
My Early Large Cents
<< <i>
<< <i>I haven't read the thread but it seems to me that a COA is useless if a scammer can buy one on ebay and attache it to fake coins. --Jerry >>
Well they are useless. What purpuse do they serve? They are mass produced and are nothing but people want them. Fine, give it to them. If someone wants to fake a COA its not hard and I would say much easier than buying a few off ebay. This horse has been beat to within an inch of his life at this point. The only reason I even care is that people pay more with OGP as a rule. >>
If you are a collector and an occasional seller, you want that packaging with the coins you buy on the secondary market to give legitimacy and for resell. Not everybody keeps their coins forever. Sometimes we sell to buy something we like better. Or the price just gets too high not to cash out (UHRs). My suggestion to dealers and regular sellers is to offer the OGP for a fee with the slabbed coins that recoups the cost or makes some profit. Many buyers will pay extra for it, I'm one of them.
My impression is that it's primarily TPG collectors that value COAs less. Unless non-TPG casual coin collectors can also be convinced, and they may be the majority, eBay's policy will likely do some good in protecting them.
<< <i>Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. >>
Sounds just like the kind of argument my wife would make. The more remote the likelihood of something happening, the more she embraces it.
<< <i>Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. As with the fear of the Chinese flooding the market with counterfeit coins if they could only get their hands on these COAs, no evidence has been provided that either has actually happened. But they might, so we must remain ever vigilant as the evildoers hate our freedom to collect as we please. Prohibiting the sale of COAs is just the price we have to pay. >>
During the period when the chinese fakes were allowed on ebay it was quite obvious americans were buying and commen knowledge the coins were not marked copy.Is it too much of a stretch to think americans might be the ones that want these C.O.A's for reasons other than clung to here in this thread ? A member posted a site where fake star spangled commems were offered only days ago.Who's buying them is what the question is and the answer pretty obvious.
When in eBay, do as your told.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is anyone here aware of any frauds that have ever been committed on eBay or anywhere else that involve genuine coin COA's? How would one do that? You can't very well place a Jackie Robinson $5 Gold COA in with a $5 Statue of liberty? Further, the COA's are stuffed in boxes on a production line with no regard for matching a particular COA to a particular coin, only that it is the correct coin not a specific coin. Determining if the correct coin is matched with the correct COA is something a third grader could easily do. As pointed out by cheezhed, why are CC dollar COA's any different? >>
If COA's serve no purpose then why would someone want to pay money for them? Is there a market for the tissue paper also? >>
Because collectors are a fickle bunch. We are obsessed with complete sets. >>
That is true. I guess I need to start selling my packing paper, tissue paper, and boxes on ebay for the really big bucks out there. After all, how could a coin be complete without the shipping box it came in?
<< <i>
<< <i>Another reason for not allowing COAs to be sold is that small children could wad them up, swallow them and choke to death. >>
Sounds just like the kind of argument my wife would make. The more remote the likelihood of something happening, the more she embraces it. >>
Here's something else to worry about- somebody could make a paper airplane with a pointy tip out of a COA and put somebody else's eye out by throwing it. With COAs apparently banned, *that* won't happen now.
Dodged a bullet there.
Some years ago when ebay wanted to know my SSI, my complete financial history, how many toes I had and my mothers maiden name - I left with no forwarding address. (A decision I have come to embrace and rejoice over)
Now, in MHO, ebay has drafted and been constantly refining A REALLY GOOD PLAN TO PUT THEMSELVES OUT OF THE AUCTION BUSINESS. (MAYBE BY DESIGN)---and I really am surprised that no competition has arisen from this.
Not bashing nor defending, Just living in the last century where "The CUSTOMER was always Right" and a rolodex was a good thing to have.
And this situation is not unique to EBAY.
A Spade is a Spade.
We all want mo Money.
And everybody wanna go to Heaven,
but nobody wanna Die !!
Ol' Hank !!!
I have sold those and included the COA. Based on this thread I would handle it thusly:
"For Sale is the original mint packaging for a 1986 US Gold Eagle 4 coin set. The packing is complete and includes packaging materials provided by the US Mint."
If I wanted to go farther I might say this, "Ebay does not allow the sale of COAs without the coins. If you need the COA you will have to contact me outside of ebay."
--Jerry
<< <i>
Now, in MHO, ebay has drafted and been constantly refining A REALLY GOOD PLAN TO PUT THEMSELVES OUT OF THE AUCTION BUSINESS. (MAYBE BY DESIGN)--
. >>
well this was in yesterdays news...
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
I would refer you to a quote by P.T. Barnum - "There is one born every minute."
A Spade is a Spade.
We all want mo Money.
And everybody wanna go to Heaven,
but nobody wanna Die !!
Ol' Hank !!!
<< <i>well this was in yesterdays news...
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of eBay Inc. surged to their highest level since 2006 Thursday as investors weighed the potential of the company's growing PayPal business and orders were brisk on eBay's e-commerce websites in the first quarter. THE SPARK: Late Wednesday, eBay CEO, John Donahoe called the January-March quarter an "excellent start" to the year. Revenue grew 29 percent to $3.28 billion. Profit grew 20 percent to $570 million, with adjusted earnings of 55 cents per share. Revenue and profit topped Wall Street estimates. In the San Jose, Calif., company's PayPal unit, revenue jumped 32 percent to $1.31 billion. The number of active accounts increased 12 percent to 109.8 million.
I would refer you to a quote by P.T. Barnum - "There is one born every minute." >>
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5