<< <i>99% of the time, advisors nix deals like this - THEY want to be the ones providing the coins. So its not worth your time in almost every instance >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>99% of the time, advisors nix deals like this - THEY want to be the ones providing the coins. So its not worth your time in almost every instance >>
I don't knock other dealers' material if it fits the collection. I think there are more than 1% of professionals that would do this.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
I can certainly understand a dealer not wanting do this. Many dealers that the collector will take the coin to will "Poo Poo" any coin that's not from them I will say though, to the ones knocking that it's "Only" a 500.00 coin. To a lot of collectors this is a lot of cash, me included sometimes. I recall when my Wife and I had a mortgage on the house,, raising kids and working regular jobs 500.00 was a heck of a lot of cash to spend on a coin. In fact we never could. Just trying to bring this down to earth a bit.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Years ago when looking at an expensive (for me) bust half, I've asked a few dealers if I could take it outside in the sun and have a peak. Now That's when they really give you the "look." Heh Heh
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Although I always test drive a car before buying, never even considered asking a dealer to test drive a coin ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
It's just as easy for the original dealer to say, "I will give you full return privileges, so just pay and feel free to bring it back for a full refund."
How hard is that? Then the "borrower" isn't rushed and there is zero risk for everyone.
A "buyer" asking for a coin or any returnable item without putting the money down first is NOT a buyer, just a time waster.
<< <i>I often let them do it, but they had to leave me something more substantial, like their driver's license or even their car keys. >>
I use my best judgment and intuition of the situation, but I have done this as well, usually keeping their driver's license. I also ask who the dealer is and get the table number. I also ask for references of other dealers he has done business with. But if I don't get a "good feeling" for the person, I decline unless he wants to leave the price of the coin as a deposit.
By the way, I have had about equal results - half the time they purchased the coin, the other half they declined.
<< <i>OK, it was a $500 coin, which admittedly is not the most expensive coin in my case, but I wouldn't want someone to just walk off with it. After all, anyone could grab a business card from across the room and tell that same story, then walk off with the coin.
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
15 minutes is plain rude under this instance for a 500 dollar coin. If i am set up some where i would tell them i hope their advisor can make it by my table before the end of the show in a polite way, if they balk at that i will show them my rude side.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>If I do not know the collector and am in a big room like Baltimore where I can't see everything and can easily get distracted, I would probably ask the collector to bring the dealer advisor to my table to examine the coin. >>
+1 or if I had a business partner who could maintain my table, I would go to the dealer advisor's table.
<< <i>Under normal circumstances, I ask for his driver's license and then give him the coin. >>
How do you know that it's not a fake? The driver's licenses from the several states differ tremendously, and I doubt that I could detect a counterfeit out of state driver's license. Also, I wouldn't rely on the photographs. The pictures are known for being horrible and even with a vague similarity between the person on the photo ID and the person at the show, this is no guarantee.
A collector who I didn't know came up to my table, inspected a few coins, then showed me a business card from a dealer from the far side of the room, and said "This dealer is my advisor. I would like to borrow this coin so I can ask him what he thinks of it."
What would you do in this situation?
After several responses are received to this post, I will tell you what I did. >>
I would hand him my business card and kindly ask him to have his advisor call me.
I have manned tables at various shows in my collecting areas over the years. I have never had a problem - that ranges from lending an item out to leaving one of my "traveling" albums (10K+ which is a LOT to me and that's part of my personal collections, not stock) with another dealer while getting us all water and lunch and so on to all in between. However, I expect I will not be doing that anymore. Things are just not the way they were even 5 - 10 years ago.
<< <i>OK, it was a $500 coin, which admittedly is not the most expensive coin in my case, but I wouldn't want someone to just walk off with it. After all, anyone could grab a business card from across the room and tell that same story, then walk off with the coin.
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
It took 15 minutes because the customer obviously liked the coin and the dealer was busy trying to sell him something else from his inventory. Apparently he could find no flaw with the coin so he was telling him the price was too high. --Jerry
<< <i> After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
This reminds me of another 15 minute story so to speak-----
Once upon a time I was at a show ( non coin ) and I asked the price of something as it was not marked. The vendor took the item to a lamp in the corner of the room and himmed and hawed and twisted the item in the light for 15 minutes. He walked backed shaking his head and gave me an outlandish price. I politely asked if he could go back over and ask the lamp for a better price.
Yes, I would have loved to have heard that convo Rich. TDN, was spot on. 99% of the time this situation will yield no fruit.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I remember once at a White Plains show asking a dealer who didn't specialize in errors if I could walk a coin over to another dealer who did for a second opinion. He didn't ask for collateral or anything but then again I don't know if I was ever completely out of his sight, the bourse was pretty small.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Call the dealer across the room on his cell that I would ask the buyer to provide via business card. Then ask for his Drivers License. Verify and do it.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one. And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
I am often lent coins by dealers I know. For others, I'll often pull out something worth about double and let them hold it as collateral... as long as they don't look shifty
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one. And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
>>
No one self-identifies as "wealthy," that is always a term reserved for the next level up the ladder
<< <i>Tell him to bring over the other guy's booth babe and he can keep the coin! >>
I like your way of thinking.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Past experience with situations like this has shown that more often than not, your time is getting wasted as the coin invariably comes back, as it did here. People who are serious buyers/collectors can usually make a decision without having to get opinions from 5 other people. What it boils down to is usually one of three things...either a)he's scared you might make a buck on him, b) he's shopping to see if he can make a quick flip, or most likely c)he simply can't make a decision on his own. If I'm in a situation like this, I tell them to bring their coin guru over to the table to look at the piece. 9 out of 10 times they don't return, and the 10th time the guy comes, looks at it, shoots it down based on price, grade, whatever, they walk off and there's no sale anyway. I prefer to not have my inventory walking around with people I don't know.
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one. And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
>>
He is a dealer and even went so far as to find a coin for me for all of forty dollars that same day. This was via the BST by the way I am on the other side of the country and was not at the show. What I think he was saying is it should not take as long as was being spent on this deal for a decision to be made by dealer or collector they were rude to take up that much time.
I always get a second opinion, and sometimes, a third opinion on a perspective purchase. I try to bring my second set of eyes to the dealer's table.
If I am unable to do so, if the dealer knows me, he / she gives me the coin. I have done this with a number of low five figure coins over the years. I always offer to leave my driver's license as collateral, and am happy to leave car keys as well, if requested to do so.
I make a point of getting the coin back to its owner as soon as possible; almost always within ten minutes.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Hey Rich - for me, it would depend on who the requester was. If they were a well-known quantity, then I might consider it. Otherwise, I'd insist on having their counsel come to my table to view the coin. Good seeing ya at the show in Baltimore this weekend!
My friend always buys the coin first and then shows it to the dealers. He always says, what do you think about this coin? They always say it looks good, to say otherwise may cost them sales to him down the road.
I showed a dealer a indian cent a few years back, he said the coin was a turd. I then pulled the sticker off that covered up the price and grade. It was his coin. What a priceless moment. lol
I set up from time to time at different types of shows. I feel for the guys that do this weekly.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>My friend always buys the coin first and then shows it to the dealers. He always says, what do you think about this coin? They always say it looks good, to say otherwise may cost them sales to him down the road.
I showed a dealer a indian cent a few years back, he said the coin was a turd. I then pulled the sticker off that covered up the price and grade. It was his coin. What a priceless moment. lol
I set up from time to time at different types of shows. I feel for the guys that do this weekly. >>
Your friend is smart and courteous!
The thing with your Indian cent may either show: quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions or that the dealer deals in dreck
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter. >>
It was meant as slight hyperbole. Sorry to be so obtuse. The point, is that if you aren't REALLY INTERESTED then reviewing a coin for a few seconds may yield bogus results.
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter. >>
It was meant as slight hyperbole. Sorry to be so obtuse. The point, is that if you aren't REALLY INTERESTED then reviewing a coin for a few seconds may yield bogus results. >>
How long do you think professional graders spend looking at most coins before assigning a grade?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I should add that it can be quite awkward when a collector walks up to the table and says something to the effect of "Dealer XYZ, who is standing next to me, said I could bring this coin over and get your opinion of it." And then both of them stare at you while you examine the coin.
Comments
<< <i>99% of the time, advisors nix deals like this - THEY want to be the ones providing the coins. So its not worth your time in almost every instance >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>99% of the time, advisors nix deals like this - THEY want to be the ones providing the coins. So its not worth your time in almost every instance >>
I don't knock other dealers' material if it fits the collection. I think there are more than 1% of professionals that would do this.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
I will say though, to the ones knocking that it's "Only" a 500.00 coin. To a lot of collectors this is a lot of cash, me included sometimes. I recall when my Wife and I had a mortgage on the house,, raising kids and working regular jobs 500.00 was a heck of a lot of cash to spend on a coin. In fact we never could. Just trying to bring this down to earth a bit.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
It's just as easy for the original dealer to say, "I will give you full return privileges, so just pay and feel free to bring it back for a full refund."
How hard is that? Then the "borrower" isn't rushed and there is zero risk for everyone.
A "buyer" asking for a coin or any returnable item without putting the money down first is NOT a buyer, just a time waster.
<< <i>I often let them do it, but they had to leave me something more substantial, like their driver's license or even their car keys. >>
I use my best judgment and intuition of the situation, but I have done this as well, usually keeping their driver's license. I also ask who the dealer is and get the table number. I also ask for references of other dealers he has done business with. But if I don't get a "good feeling" for the person, I decline unless he wants to leave the price of the coin as a deposit.
By the way, I have had about equal results - half the time they purchased the coin, the other half they declined.
The Penny Lady®
<< <i>OK, it was a $500 coin, which admittedly is not the most expensive coin in my case, but I wouldn't want someone to just walk off with it. After all, anyone could grab a business card from across the room and tell that same story, then walk off with the coin.
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
15 minutes is plain rude under this instance for a 500 dollar coin. If i am set up some where i would tell them i hope their advisor can make it by my table before the end of the show in a polite way, if they balk at that i will show them my rude side.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>If I do not know the collector and am in a big room like Baltimore where I can't see everything and can easily get distracted, I would probably ask the collector to bring the dealer advisor to my table to examine the coin. >>
+1 or if I had a business partner who could maintain my table, I would go to the dealer advisor's table.
<< <i>Under normal circumstances, I ask for his driver's license and then give him the coin. >>
How do you know that it's not a fake? The driver's licenses from the several states differ tremendously, and I doubt that I could detect a counterfeit out of state driver's license. Also, I wouldn't rely on the photographs. The pictures are known for being horrible and even with a vague similarity between the person on the photo ID and the person at the show, this is no guarantee.
<< <i>Let me provide details:
A collector who I didn't know came up to my table, inspected a few coins, then showed me a business card from a dealer from the far side of the room, and said "This dealer is my advisor. I would like to borrow this coin so I can ask him what he thinks of it."
What would you do in this situation?
After several responses are received to this post, I will tell you what I did. >>
I would hand him my business card and kindly ask him to have his advisor call me.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I have been allowed to borrow a coin at shows.
Eric
<< <i>OK, it was a $500 coin, which admittedly is not the most expensive coin in my case, but I wouldn't want someone to just walk off with it. After all, anyone could grab a business card from across the room and tell that same story, then walk off with the coin.
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
It took 15 minutes because the customer obviously liked the coin and the dealer was busy trying to sell him something else from his inventory. Apparently he could find no flaw with the coin so he was telling him the price was too high. --Jerry
<< <i>Unless I knew the customer well, I would ask him to bring his advisor over and view the coin at our table. >>
Same here. It is harder for the adviser to make things up standing in front of me. --Jerry
<< <i>I have been allowed to borrow a coin at shows. >>
I'm sure only by people that knew you.
<< <i> After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
This reminds me of another 15 minute story so to speak-----
Once upon a time I was at a show ( non coin ) and I asked the price of something as it was not marked. The vendor took the item to a lamp in the corner of the room and himmed and hawed and twisted the item in the light for 15 minutes. He walked backed shaking his head and gave me an outlandish price. I politely asked if he could go back over and ask the lamp for a better price.
Yes, I would have loved to have heard that convo Rich. TDN, was spot on. 99% of the time this situation will yield no fruit.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
business card. Then ask for his Drivers License. Verify and do it.
bob
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one.
And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
Empty Nest Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one.
And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
No one self-identifies as "wealthy," that is always a term reserved for the next level up the ladder
<< <i>Tell him to bring over the other guy's booth babe and he can keep the coin!
I like your way of thinking.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. i bought 2 coins this go around in baltimore one for 32k+, the other 20k+, and didnt take that long on either purchase. about 5-10 min on each one.
And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me. >>
$52,000 on a hobby would clearly define you as wealthy by MOST standards!!
He is a dealer and even went so far as to find a coin for me for all of forty dollars that same day. This was via the BST by the way I am on the other side of the country and was not at the show.
What I think he was saying is it should not take as long as was being spent on this deal for a decision to be made by dealer or collector they were rude to take up that much time.
If I am unable to do so, if the dealer knows me, he / she gives me the coin. I have done this with a number of low five figure coins over the years. I always offer to leave my driver's license as collateral, and am happy to leave car keys as well, if requested to do so.
I make a point of getting the coin back to its owner as soon as possible; almost always within ten minutes.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
'dude
Yet I heard that the elusive CRO hats are so safely guarded that a license, keys, wallet, watch, belt and a pair of shoes might still not be enough
I showed a dealer a indian cent a few years back, he said the coin was a turd. I then pulled the sticker off that covered up the price and grade. It was his coin. What a priceless moment. lol
I set up from time to time at different types of shows. I feel for the guys that do this weekly.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>My friend always buys the coin first and then shows it to the dealers. He always says, what do you think about this coin? They always say it looks good, to say otherwise may cost them sales to him down the road.
I showed a dealer a indian cent a few years back, he said the coin was a turd. I then pulled the sticker off that covered up the price and grade. It was his coin. What a priceless moment. lol
I set up from time to time at different types of shows. I feel for the guys that do this weekly. >>
Your friend is smart and courteous!
The thing with your Indian cent may either show: quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter. >>
It was meant as slight hyperbole. Sorry to be so obtuse. The point, is that if you aren't REALLY INTERESTED then reviewing a coin for a few seconds may yield bogus results.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>....quick decisions about things that are only 1/4 inch across may not always be the right decisions...... >>
I'm unaware of any U.S. coins that are "only 1/4 inch across". The smallest coin ever produced by the U.S. is the Type 1 gold dollar and at 13mm it's slightly larger than 1/2 inch in diameter. >>
It was meant as slight hyperbole. Sorry to be so obtuse. The point, is that if you aren't REALLY INTERESTED then reviewing a coin for a few seconds may yield bogus results. >>
How long do you think professional graders spend looking at most coins before assigning a grade?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would ask that he bring his advisor/mentor over to look at the coin at my table.
Yep.