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Show situation - what would you do if a collector wanted to borrow a coin?

Let me provide details:
A collector who I didn't know came up to my table, inspected a few coins, then showed me a business card from a dealer from the far side of the room, and said "This dealer is my advisor. I would like to borrow this coin so I can ask him what he thinks of it."
What would you do in this situation?
After several responses are received to this post, I will tell you what I did.
A collector who I didn't know came up to my table, inspected a few coins, then showed me a business card from a dealer from the far side of the room, and said "This dealer is my advisor. I would like to borrow this coin so I can ask him what he thinks of it."
What would you do in this situation?
After several responses are received to this post, I will tell you what I did.
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The trouble was most of the time you are going to get a thumbs down in a situation like this. The collector’s “dealer advisor” would rather sell him coins than have some other dealer do it. So unless you are offering an 1804 silver dollar at melt, chances are you are not going to get a sale.
Of course there were a couple of times in my decade plus years at a dealer that I guess I was offering 1804 dollars at melt because once and a while it resulted in a sale.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>No way. If they wanted to pay for it and then they would have a 30 minute time window to return it for a full refund...that's one idea. >>
How do you know their check is good?
The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. I sat at the "Rarity Nights" auction in Baltimre, and for that sale $10 grand looked like something you drop in a gumball machine.
Several years ago, I had a sitaution where I was the buyer and asked a dealer if I could take a coin to let another dealer I know view it. I offered to leave 2 coins of my own that were worth about 2x what the piece I was intrested in buying. He was okay with that.
JIm
<< <i>I would ask that he bring his advisor/mentor over to look at the coin at my table.
It was a $100 coin going to a collector (me) who was about 17-18 years old.
I asked if I could show the coin to a dealer to confirm the die marriage attribution (actually, I went to you Rich!).
The dealer didn't know me (and understandably so), so I was upfront and handed him a $100 bill on condition
that I can return the coin for an immediate refund if the die marriage isn't confirmed.
Well, Rich confirmed the die marriage and so I kept the coin...case closed, and that's how this situation was handled.
I imagine that giving the dealer a call, or having some sort of collateral is a necessity when encountering this situation.
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Let me provide details:.... >>
You left out the most important detail---how much was this coin worth---$100, $1,000 or $10,000? It would make a difference.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy. >>
What is really "really nice" in the U.S. series that does not cost at least several hundred dollars? Gold prices have driven the cost modern commemorative $5 gold coins to $400 + a piece. If you are looking at anything in the 19th century that I'd call "really nice" (scarce or rare and in Fine or VF or common and AU to Mint State) the price is up there. The "really nice" nice collectors coins that used to be in the $500 to $2,000 "sweet spot" are now in the mid five figures in many cases.
Ten years ago you could go to a show with a few thousand and come home with some interesting material, but even Civil War tokens that used to cost $10 are now $40, $50 or more. Hard Times tokens are worse. The presidential campaign medalets I collect used be $10 for common ones. Now they are $50 to $100.
I don't think my statement was elitist at all. It's what I've seen at the shows.
TO ADD - I've been working a set of 20 cent pieces. When I was dealer years ago I found a nice 1875-CC in an AU holder. It was original and attractive and I could sell it to my customer for a few hundred less than $2,000. Now I've been looking for myself, and scrubbed up "Mint State" pieces that are not as nice now have $3,000 + price tags on them. You can buy 1875-S Twenty cent pieces all day long, but the other dates, forget it. They are not out there at reasonable prices.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy. >>
I have to admit I don't see anything wrong with Bill's statement here and I'm definitely not a wealthy collector.
If customer doesn't like that, they are not serious about the coin, you don't want to deal with them anyway.
<< <i>I guess it would depend slightly upon the price of the coin and if I knew the other dealer. However, I am fairly certain I would let the collector borrow it after paying for the coin in full. >>
I'm a collector and that strikes me as reasonable - provided that the dealer guarantee (a written note would be enough) that I could return it for a full refund within, oh, two hours if I'm not satisfied.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>
<< <i>No way. If they wanted to pay for it and then they would have a 30 minute time window to return it for a full refund...that's one idea. >>
How do you know their check is good?
The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. I sat at the "Rarity Nights" auction in Baltimre, and for that sale $10 grand looked like something you drop in a gumball machine.
I said NOTHING about a check!!! Cash Please...and THANK YOU!
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy. >>
What is really "really nice" in the U.S. series that does not cost at least several hundred dollars? Gold prices have driven the cost modern commemorative $5 gold coins to $400 + a piece. If you are looking at anything in the 19th century that I'd call "really nice" (scarce or rare and in Fine or VF or common and AU to Mint State) the price is up there. The "really nice" nice collectors coins that used to be in the $500 to $2,000 "sweet spot" are now in the mid five figures in many cases.
Ten years ago you could go to a show with a few thousand and come home with some interesting material, but even Civil War tokens that used to cost $10 are now $40, $50 or more. Hard Times tokens are worse. The presidential campaign medalets I collect used be $10 for common ones. Now they are $50 to $100.
I don't think my statement was elitist at all. It's what I've seen at the shows.
TO ADD - I've been working a set of 20 cent pieces. When I was dealer years ago I found a nice 1875-CC in an AU holder. It was original and attractive and I could sell it to my customer for a few hundred less than $2,000. Now I've been looking for myself, and scrubbed up "Mint State" pieces that are not as nice now have $3,000 + price tags on them. You can buy 1875-S Twenty cent pieces all day long, but the other dates, forget it. They are not out there at reasonable prices. >>
You specifically said a "briefcase full of cash" which would imply a six figure coin. My point was that most collectors are lucky to afford a three figure coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If I do not know the collector and am in a big room like Baltimore where I can't see everything and can easily get distracted, I would probably ask the collector to bring the dealer advisor to my table to examine the coin. >>
doesn't leave a good taste
Makes me wonder how this 'collector' would approach buying an automobile or a major appliance.
<< <i>You specifically said a "briefcase full of cash" which would imply a six figure coin. My point was that most collectors are lucky to afford a three figure coin. >>
Okay, poor choice of words. How about "a stack of hundreds?" This market is not friendly to small collectors and the prices of most anything that is "old" in the U.S. series, including tokens and medals (the “dark side”) has gone up substantially.
A dealer friend and I were talking about a veteran dealer who is known for very nice material and very strong prices. My comment was, “In the old days you used to over pay when you bought there in the hundreds of dollars. Today you have over pay by the thousands of even the tens of thousands of dollars.” He heartily agreed.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy. >>
I have to admit I don't see anything wrong with Bill's statement here and I'm definitely not a wealthy collector. >>
Do you guys realize a "briefcase full of cash" is probably in excess of a million dollars? I'm fairly well off but I doubt that I could buy a coin that costs that much.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
2) Leave your wallet.
3) Bring your advisor to my table.
4) Leave another coin of equal or greater value.
I don't like car keys, credit cards or driver's licenses. I have a box full of old ones.
Lance.
I just did this yesterday giving a fellow covering a dealers table my drivers license so I could walk a slightly sub $20K coin to another tentatively interested party.
Although I've done plenty of business with the dealership we both didn't know each other from dirt.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The way prices are these days it would take a brief case full of cash to buy much of anything that is really nice. >>
Are you serious? I can't believe your elitist statement. Not all collectors are extremely wealthy. >>
I have to admit I don't see anything wrong with Bill's statement here and I'm definitely not a wealthy collector. >>
Do you guys realize a "briefcase full of cash" is probably in excess of a million dollars? I'm fairly well off but I doubt that I could buy a coin that costs that much. >>
If one actually had a spare mil to spend on a coin, how many million dollar coins are even available right now? Is there even a fairly-valued million dollar Morgan for sale right now?
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Rich, if as you say, the customer abided by the other dealer's decision about the price being too high, then obviously the potential customer can't think for himself enough to enter into negotiation with you directly. You don't need customers like that, unless you want to take my advice above, and work a bit harder to win their trust and relationship right from the first encounter.
BTW - I had a really engaging conversation with Bill Bugert at your table. Sorry I didn't say hello to you.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
If you don't know the person, place the coin aside for a few minutes and let the adviser come take a look.
Once the coin leaves your table, it often is:
1) Shown around the bourse to a zillion collector friends and dealers.
2) Offered for sale to a zillion collector friends and dealers
3) Sent through PCGS same day regrade service submission without permission
4) Leaves the bourse for a home that is not your own.
TRUTH
<< <i>I would ask that he bring his advisor/mentor over to look at the coin at my table.
yep
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>if one doesnt "like the price of the coin" why pick it up in the first place ? sounds shady, or just plain old stupid. if you are willing to spend $500 on the coin, you should know enough about that series (and that coin) to know if you want it or not when the opportunity presents itself. >>
Sounds like the advisor/dealer didn't like the price of the coin. Or maybe he criticized it to the point where the buyer didn't like it at that price anymore.
Rich handled the situation well.
Lance.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>TO ADD - I've been working a set of 20 cent pieces. When I was dealer years ago I found a nice 1875-CC in an AU holder. It was original and attractive and I could sell it to my customer for a few hundred less than $2,000. Now I've been looking for myself, and scrubbed up "Mint State" pieces that are not as nice now have $3,000 + price tags on them. You can buy 1875-S Twenty cent pieces all day long, but the other dates, forget it. They are not out there at reasonable prices. >>
Tell me about it!!!
I was thrilled to find a nice, original, crusty 1875-P in AU-53 ... but it was not bargain priced.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>OK, it was a $500 coin, which admittedly is not the most expensive coin in my case, but I wouldn't want someone to just walk off with it. After all, anyone could grab a business card from across the room and tell that same story, then walk off with the coin.
So I asked one of my table assistants to walk over to the other dealer's table with the coin and the prospective customer. My table assistant waited at a nearby empty table while the customer and his dealer advisor debated the merits of the coin. After 15 minutes, my table assistant asked for the coin back, and said that they could continue their discussion without the coin, as we had work to do at our table. Their response was that they did not like the price of the coin.
I'm not sure why it took 15 minutes to consider the price of the coin. My table assistant didn't ask that question. >>
That works! Well done.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
And I am no where near wealthy, so it was a great deal of dough for me.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>It took 15 min and they still couldnt decide on a 500 coin. >>
I wonder how long they would have taken if the op's rep hadn't intervened.
It sounds borderline rude.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Let me provide details:
A collector who I didn't know came up to my table, inspected a few coins, then showed me a business card from a dealer from the far side of the room, and said "This dealer is my advisor. I would like to borrow this coin so I can ask him what he thinks of it."
What would you do in this situation?
After several responses are received to this post, I will tell you what I did. >>
I have seen this done at small shows when it was only a few tables away and the coin was not of
any real value ( a dealer was trying to help educate a newbee collector with a near melt Morgan back
when silver was like 4$$). I dont think I would do this at Long Beach, where i cant even see to the
other side of the room). Have him put a deposit on the coin and be back in 10 minutes or less for any
refund).