Options
1982 "NO P" Roosevelt Dime - an underrated rarity?
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
I think this one of the greatest coins of the past 30 years; affordable and not all that easy to find with a great strike.
What's your view?
What's your view?
0
Comments
Just sold one last Sunday in the Great Collections auction. It was in a PCGS MS65 rattler holder. Had it for over 20 years. Paid
$250 for it. Lost $60 on it. I'm pretty sure it would have gold beaned. Oh well. Someone got a Great deal.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
not sure what you call special or if this coin fits that bill, but it was struck without the MM and has a traceable number to a specific release point.
<< <i>
<< <i>What's so special about it??
not sure what you call special or if this coin fits that bill, but it was struck without the MM and has a traceable number to a specific release point. >>
How rare is it?= how many are thought or known to exist?= what is the Sheldon rarity#? >>
On the Sheldon scale this coin is a low R-1. According to "Coin Facts" there are two varieties of this coin, a strongly struck version, which is far more collectable and a weakly struck version which is not as desirable. PCGS has graded 2,004 strongly struck pieces, plus 87 strong strike, split bans pieces. PCGS does not seem to be grading the weakly struck variety.
According to the “Coin Facts” information, an estimated 8 to 10 thousand of these dimes were picked out of circulation in the Sandusky, Ohio area where these pieces were found. In addition more pieces cropped up at the Cedar Point Amusement Park and the surrounding area.
I think the bottom line is that it will take a lot more collector interest in these coins, if the prices are going to rise in the various Mint State grades. Rarity is not going to get the piece there.
This piece is not like the 1969-S doubled die obverse cent. PCGS has certified 31 examples of those, which is more than I might have thought. Still that number might be inflated because of resubmissions.
the coins probably all came from a single die that was absent the MM so i'd say about 15-20k in all were released. i'd suppose that it's entirely possible that some still circulate.
------------Cedar Point is in Sandusky. the coins in question originated at the Cleveland Fed and were used at the park and surrounding banks.
Anyone got a pic of the strong struck and weak struck?
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Apparently, the Sheldon number doesn't matter too much when there are enough active collectors interested in the series.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Maybe not a rarity in the most literal meaning of the word, but a scarce coin which is indeed underrated. It would be a $4k coin if it happened to a Lincoln cent. >>
I have some Lincolns missing the P mintmark.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>Were these found in circulation or in mint sets? >>
From what I've read, circulation.
This I think is one of them. Another one I think is cool is the 1983 Doubled Die Lincoln Cent.
<< <i>I like `em too, and underrated, but that`s why I was able to add it to my holdings
Frankly until I saw this picture I thought I had the only nearly fully struck example.
Even most of the so-called strong strikes are very mushy around the date and to a lesser
extent on the LIBERTY. These strong strikes were actually made by the same die pair as
weak strikes and were made afterward. Apparently the dies were put in place and the
press was run very briefly before it was shut down to replace a different die in the same
press. These few thousand strikes went mostly to Pittsburgh and a few to the Baltimore
area. After the press was started back the strong strikes were made so apparently the dies
were adjusted. These strong strikes all went to the Sandusky area banks and by some mas-
sive fluke the bulk of them went to Cedar Point Park. At the end of the season in late 1982
most of these dimes still hadn't been distributed and were returned to the Sandusky bank.
It was early 1983 that they were discovered. While these made a pretty big slash in the
hobby press there was almost no impact at all in Sandusky other than the general public
were clamoring to find as many as possible. Most of the coins ended up in a few large hoards
in Sandusky.
I've seen hundreds of these including parts of some hoards and they all tend to have pretty
poor strikes. I can't begin to give a meaningful estimate of the full struck examples because
I've seen only the two plus a runner-up. I'd be a little surprised if even the FB specimens have
a nice obverse strike.
It's an interesting coin and is still plucked from circulation on rare occasion. I'd agree it's vastly
underappreciated since it's much scarcer than the much ballyhooed '16-D and the potential
demand is far far higher.
The coin comes fairly nice in terms of marking but not in terms of strike. The typical example
is an MS-61 or 2. Weakly struck gems aren't too tough though.
<< <i>Yes, as being from the northern OH area originally, I never considered this to be a rarity. I knew of dealers who had rolls of these squirreled away. And given the certified numbers provided by BillJones, I'm guessing some of these are still in hiding. I certainly wouldn't want to speculate on them, as you may run out of money before you run out of coins to buy
It is the hoards that are the problem with this coin.
I believe all the hoards but one are broken up now but the one left might be substantial yet. Every time
the demand ratchets up there is selling that keeps the price down.
Circulated examples are not common but I've heard of very worn specimens.
any of the souvenir nor unofficial mint sets. The true irony was that even in 1983 as I was
tracking down a nice NMM for my collection I knew that the regular issue '82-P would ultimately
be far more valuable in top grades because it would be far scarcer and have higher demand
than the typical '82-NMM.
Nice ch Gem '82-P's are tough because of strike and marking. Dies were overused and these
coins simply weren't set aside in any sort of quantity. Even nice ch Uncs are tough.
<< <i>I find this topic interesting, the modern collectors want it both ways, they have their own "Modern" Sheldon scale where they simply add o's to Sheldon's figures and and keep the terms rare and scarce at the same time. >>
I find the coin interesting as I've been searching for years and never found one. Yet, you bring Sheldon into it, when he wasn't even around in 1982.
From Wikipedia because I'm too lazy to go to my Encyclopedia which was printed before 1977.
"William Herbert Sheldon, Jr. (November 19, 1898 - September 17, 1977) was a American psychologist and numismatist. He created the field of somatotype and constitutional psychology that tried to correlate body types with behavior, intelligence and social hierarchy through his Ivy League nude posture photos. However, his work is generally dismissed by modern researchers....
In numismatics, he authored Early American Cents and later revised that work within Penny Whimsy (these were the most exhaustive catalogues of the varieties of early American large cents at that time). The Sheldon variety list for Early American Cents is still in use today. He also developed the "Sheldon scale" that graded coins on a numeric basis from 1 to 70, which is still standard among American numismatists. "
Who wants what both ways ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
not a point that should be wasted on "Modern" collectors or coins, your hinted at abuse of the Sheldon Scale is really applicable to most coins hyped as rare or scarce. as a matter of fact, the Sheldon Scale was originally conceived to rank Large Cents and has been modified to the point where it is now better referred to as the Universal Rarity Scale.
<< <i>He also developed the "Sheldon scale" that graded coins on a numeric basis from 1 to 70, which is still standard among American numismatists. "
Who wants what both ways ? >>
Realone was referring to the Sheldon Rarity Scale; R-1, R-2, etc.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
i've owned one in the past and can see one in the future too...
<< <i>The op in his opening thread discussed the subject coin as "an underrated rarity". It isn't rare int he least, there are 1,000's, no maybe hes says it is rare in proportion to the million of moderns minted, but I don't go off of proportions I go off of actual minted or actual existing and when using that as a rule this coin ain't any close to being rare, that is unless you change the definition of rare by adding a bunch of zeros after its so-calle deifinition as illustrated by Sheldon's scale of rarity. >>
It simply doesn't matter what you call it. There are far fewer in existence than the '16-D
dime and it goes for a fraction of the price of even the most heavily worn '16-D. There may
be only a couple or a few of these fully struck. Surely this counts as "rare" just as a gem
'16-D is rare. It's far more rare than an 1804 dollar.
Terms don't mean anything but are just a means of communicating. The '64 clad quarter is
"rare" bwecause it's unique. A '75-No-S dime is rare because there are two known.
No matter what you call the '82-NMM dime I believe it remains underrated.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The op in his opening thread discussed the subject coin as "an underrated rarity". It isn't rare int he least, there are 1,000's, no maybe hes says it is rare in proportion to the million of moderns minted, but I don't go off of proportions I go off of actual minted or actual existing and when using that as a rule this coin ain't any close to being rare, that is unless you change the definition of rare by adding a bunch of zeros after its so-calle deifinition as illustrated by Sheldon's scale of rarity. >>
It simply doesn't matter what you call it. There are far fewer in existence than the '16-D
dime and it goes for a fraction of the price of even the most heavily worn '16-D. There may
be only a couple or a few of these fully struck. Surely this counts as "rare" just as a gem
'16-D is rare. It's far more rare than an 1804 dollar.
Terms don't mean anything but are just a means of communicating. The '64 clad quarter is
"rare" bwecause it's unique. A '75-No-S dime is rare because there are two known.
No matter what you call the '82-NMM dime I believe it remains underrated. >>
Simply put if There are supposedly 10k of them known to still exist, how can it then be consider rare? >>
I didn't say the total number of weak, stong, and full strikes was rare.
I said there are less than half as many of the aggregate number of weak, strong, and full strikes
as the '16-D dime yet they all sell for less than even rhe most heavily worn '16-D. There might be
fewer than four fully struck '82-NMM dimes. If this is true then strongly struck '82-NMM dimes are
rare.
This cuts across the board; moderns trade at a tiny fraction of older coins that are equally rare.
There are no exceptions. This is because the demand for moderns is a tiny fraction of the demand
for the older coins.
cladking
don't let realone ruffle ya...i secretly think he mostly sits back and ruffles as many feathers around here that he can
lol....rare and it's definition...hmmm
finding silver in change is rare ok...does it make pre-65 rare...to some...you bet...to others...sillyness
the 82' nmm has it's place and always will
as much as i had one in the past and will again...i surely had no problem finding a buyer...
demand and supply...what truly is rare...hmmm
myself i had one of those 64' sms...rare...yeah to a sense of the word but rarer was an interested buyer when i went to sell at a halfway descent price
peace my brothers
Closer pics of Bands on Reverse.
<< <i>Closer pics of Liberty and Date on Obverse.
>>
You can see a little weakness on the top of the LI and the tail of the 2 but this
doesn't look like the other strong strikes I've seen. Mine is approximately equi-
valent and I've seen a third that was relatively strong.
The other strikes have significant weakness on the 2 and some on the 8 as well
as weakness on most of liberty. I've seen few of the weak strikes but they tend
to be quite weak and struck by poorly aligned dies and at low pressure.
I wouldn't call them rare either, but both the strong and weak are required for the Complete Roosie set. PCGS does slab the weak. I have both in MS64 I believe.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
scratch on the rev.
I believe Rampage still has it.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill