<< <i>As a buyer why shouldn't I have the right to rate shipping charges? Just because I agree to pay what was specified in the auction doesn't make the charges reasonable.
There is a simple alternative if a seller doesn't want to be rated on shipping charges, offer free shipping. Complaining that it will end up costing the buyer more in the end is complete nonsense. The only reason a seller wouldn't offer free shipping is because they realize it will cost them more in the end, either through fewer sales or no (small) profit center from their existing shipping charges.
Cheers,
Robb >>
it's Shipping AND Handling Charges per their categorization, which of course is nothing more than a vague overlay to what really gets done.
NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item."
then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!!
so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become?
The OP is spot on. And if you want to see something absolutely hilarious, check out the sellers who have done a mere 300 transactions or so & have been on EBay less than 2 years, yet have top seller status. It's comical.
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>As a buyer why shouldn't I have the right to rate shipping charges? Just because I agree to pay what was specified in the auction doesn't make the charges reasonable.
There is a simple alternative if a seller doesn't want to be rated on shipping charges, offer free shipping. Complaining that it will end up costing the buyer more in the end is complete nonsense. The only reason a seller wouldn't offer free shipping is because they realize it will cost them more in the end, either through fewer sales or no (small) profit center from their existing shipping charges.
Cheers,
Robb >>
it's Shipping AND Handling Charges per their categorization, which of course is nothing more than a vague overlay to what really gets done.
NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item."
then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!!
so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become? >>
While I agree with everything you say on principle, a buyer HAS to be allowed to rate on Shipping charges even if he agrees to them. If I agree to pay shipping $3 for a card, and it shows up in a PWE, how else can I rate that other than unacceptable? I'm not saying anyone here does that, but it happens a lot.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
the PWE thing in and of itself is a crackup. i've seen the threads about it here. and i've NEVER received a damaged card which showed up in a PWE. some were vintage cards which now reside in PSA holders.
if you received an item in a PWE and it was thrashed on the way to you, it is then NOT AS DESCRIBED. there's a category for that, too.
you still agreed to pay the S/H fee as mandated by the seller. i've mentioned before that i wouldn't care if they tied it to a pigeon as long as it was what they showed me in the scan.
<< <i>the PWE thing in and of itself is a crackup. i've seen the threads about it here. and i've NEVER received a damaged card which showed up in a PWE. some were vintage cards which now reside in PSA holders.
if you received an item in a PWE and it was thrashed on the way to you, it is then NOT AS DESCRIBED. there's a category for that, too.
you still agreed to pay the S/H fee as mandated by the seller. i've mentioned before that i wouldn't care if they tied it to a pigeon as long as it was what they showed me in the scan. >>
I have a number of sources I use that have landed me great cards, and I think a well-protected raw card in a PWE is a great way to ship, but they charge an amount in line with the fact they ship in a PWE. If I pay what looks like a non-PWE price (like $3+), then getting a PWE smacks of a seller making money off shipping.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
it's Shipping AND Handling Charges per their categorization, which of course is nothing more than a vague overlay to what really gets done. NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item." then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!! so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become?
Alter the path? Not sure what exactly that means.
I will expose someone if I don't agree with their shipping & handling charges same as I would if they misrepresent their item via their description. Why wouldn't I? I am given the ability to rate the transaction across multiple facets and am giving my honest assessment. If you don't want to be rated on S&H you have a mechanism to prevent that provided by eBay. Use it. Just because some buyers misuse the DSR system doesn't mean the system is unfair or flawed. There is a segment of the population that will misuse/abuse anything.
eBay even gives sellers a discount on their fees if they do a good job and make their customers happy as rated by DSRs. So the DSR system helps good sellers. Are there situations where the system is a little draconian (like freezing funds due to DSR) absolutely but that doesn't mean rating system is wrong. It just means Paypal is applying the results of the ratings unfairly in a few select cases.
if you don't want to be rated on S/H, then allow yourself to be manipulated into making it different. that's really the bugaboo, here.
as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses.
if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because.
if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place?
so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because."
i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house?
Potential rating has increased from average to above average.
Going off on tangents will do that.
Now a little fuel. Gemint (John) is a buddy of mine.
However, if anyone of the Beckett board rejects said that they charged 4.00 plus 1.00 each extra, capped at 12.00 this thread would have been: Potential: Way above average.
<< <i>if you don't want to be rated on S/H, then allow yourself to be manipulated into making it different. that's really the bugaboo, here.
as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses.
if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because.
if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place?
so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because."
i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house? >>
You really need to dial down the hyperbole a bit. I get that you've got a real hot button for getting your DSRs dinged. But just because I say a seller shouldn't charge bubble mailer prices and then ship in a PWE, I'm somehow suggesting he's "using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune"??? Really??
If I buy from someone that disappoints me on any significant facet of the sale - appropriate shipping costs being one of them - I generally don't buy there again unless he has an item I can't find elsewhere.
As for your pizza delivery scenario, I'd start ordering pizza elsewhere, but if someone asked my opinion of the place that had the high delivery charge I'd damn sure tell them. And that's what DSRs are doing, asking my opinion. The fact that Ebay uses the DSRs in such a heavy-handed way isn't the fault of the buyers.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
if you don't want to be rated on S/H, then allow yourself to be manipulated into making it different. that's really the bugaboo, here. as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses. if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because. if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place? so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because." i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house?
I would tell people their pizza is great but they screw you on the delivery charge. Not really sure where you were going with that one. You act like having an opinion on the service you are receiving is somehow wrong and that your only option should be to stop doing business with someone if your opinion is at all negative.
If you don't think sellers making $1-2 per eBay transaction on S&H aren't figuring that into their overall equation for selling on eBay then you are naive. You keep equating being unhappy with a S&H overcharge to no longer doing business with a seller which is silly. If a business you frequent starts doing something you don't like you let them know so they can stop doing whatever it is you don't like. If they don't change then you can make a determination as to whether to continue doing business with them going forward. DSRs are a way to let sellers know how they are doing. Sellers get caught up in the negative aspect of it, loss of discount, holding of payments, etc rather than focusing on what the DSRs are telling them about their selling practices. eBay has made something positive out of DSRs for sellers by giving them a discount if they get high ratings, discounts are a good thing and obviously not every seller deserves one.
and i've rarely had any problem with my own ratings until recently. but i do see it as problem which will only compound itself.
people are and always will be entitled to their opinions.
i don't agree with anyone being allowed to use an opinion as a method of defamation.
there's got to be a better way to separate praise and criticism. i wish i knew what that was. >>
Agreed...
In my opinion, the problem is simply that the whole feedback thing is misused. Show me any other site where it's such a huge problem to have the occasional unhappy customer - it happens. Only on Ebay is a single unhappy customer such a major cause for angst, and it's because they just don't have a way to properly measure the experience, it's far too kludgy. Feedback is useless as no one is "allowed" to speak their mind in they only have a minor nit to pick ; DSRs are only a source of discount drama; a single grumpy customer can get a small-time seller held hostage - it's all just too troublesome.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
as far as dinging stars......and i do believe in this strongly....you agreed to the charges, you bid, you confirmed bid..you are legally into that transaction... now to all the people that are sneaky and decide to ding stars after this...their stars they leave should be made public........now when these sneaks do this and if people could see how devious they are, they will block them from bidding (except win pitcher).. it is time they make ebay a bit more seller friendly...
as a seller, i'm trying to recall what it was like before the 20% discount even came into play.....when it first popped up, i was pretty pleased to see that a little extra effort could be rewarded, but i never imagined that it would be such a challenge to keep it.
i don't remember it being quite so difficult when we just paid our fees, as minimal as they were. [yawn] yeah, those were the days. [/yawn]
bking said no more hyperbole, so i guess a metaphor will do.
damn those mischievious kids for throwing rocks through our windows.
<< <i>as far as dinging stars......and i do believe in this strongly....you agreed to the charges, you bid, you confirmed bid..you are legally into that transaction... now to all the people that are sneaky and decide to ding stars after this...their stars they leave should be made public........now when these sneaks do this and if people could see how devious they are, they will block them from bidding (except win pitcher).. it is time they make ebay a bit more seller friendly... >>
I agree stars should be public. I suspect Ebay made them private as a way to avoid all the pissing matches that negative feedback has led to.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>discounts are a good thing and obviously not every seller deserves one >>
There is a false statement if I ever heard one. I feel like I deserve one - do I get a discount?? NO! I ship next day on all my orders. I pack better than any other seller I have ever encountered. Just because a couple of sellers don't like me charging for shipping and have decided to ding my stars, then I lose my discount. The ironic thing is that I see my items that they won from me via auction for cheap prices, for sale in their store at a high markup with, get this, THE EXACT SAME SHIPPING CHARGE I HAVE!! Gimme a freaking break. Too much of a conflict of interest when your competitor can ruin your profit margin if you ask me.....
Don't get me started on all the flaws in the DSR system. It has too many ways to manipulate the data which only benefits Ebay's bottom line.
If buyers don't have the ability to rate DSRs then they'll just leave a neg like in the good old days. A stack of those will negatively impact your sales more than low DSR ratings. Used to be if one part of the transaction was bad you got an overall neg. DSRs give buyers other options to narrow their complaint which is how it should be. I've dinged DSRs several times but saved the negs for the real a-holes.
That's fine and all...I appreciate the method behind what the DSR system stood for. The problem arises in the fact that the system is too easy to abuse, ie=Competitors dinging stars, buyers not happy to pay $3.00 to ship a 99 cent win, etc.
There is a false statement if I ever heard one. I feel like I deserve one - do I get a discount?? NO! I ship next day on all my orders. I pack better than any other seller I have ever encountered. Just because a couple of sellers don't like me charging for shipping and have decided to ding my stars, then I lose my discount. The ironic thing is that I see my items that they won from me via auction for cheap prices, for sale in their store at a high markup with, get this, THE EXACT SAME SHIPPING CHARGE I HAVE!! Gimme a freaking break. Too much of a conflict of interest when your competitor can ruin your profit margin if you ask me..... Don't get me started on all the flaws in the DSR system. It has too many ways to manipulate the data which only benefits Ebay's bottom line.
Not a false statement at all. You don't get a discount because you don't qualify for one and thus don't deserve it according to eBay, pretty simple. If you really wanted the discount you would offer free shipping and then not have your sub par DSR score impact your discount.
This would not be a discussion if eBay did not offer a mechanism for ensuring a high S&H DSR but they do. You simply choose not to take advantage of it. Hopefully because you have a done a cost benefit analysis and realized you make more in the end by charging for shipping. You don't get to have your cake and eat it to.
Do your competitors all get discounts? Why even bring them into the discussion? Just because they have a different business model, buy low from you and BIN high means you are not a competitor but simply a supplier for them.
As for the DSR system would folks really prefer the old days when you were given a Neg for high shipping? That hurt sales and profits far more than any lack of discount due to a low DSR.
I'm not sure people here understand the concept of a 'bonus'. It is not something you are entitled to. It is not a right of passage. The entity giving out the bonus has 100% control over who gets it and who doesn't. Before DSR's there was no bonus, now there is. If you get it you should look at it as found money; if not, that's life. Maybe ebay's standards for deciding who gets a bonus and who doesn't is unfair, but guess what- it's their bonus to give out and they can decide to give it to whomever they wish! If you're that offended, find another format on which to sell your cards.
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
I agree with Fergie and Lee, complaining about what you "deserve" or what others are "getting" is an exercise in futility, imo....in addition, as someone also posted previously, it's wise to approach differently the way you buy and the way you sell. Is $1 for each additional card reasonable? Yes, but I will also tell you that for many buyers that just sounds high as in their minds it shouldn't really cost anything more to add another card to the package. A slabbed PSA card weighs less than 2 oz. so if you're shipping first class, by weight, the additional cost should be 34 cents. That's why I said earlier that 50 cents for each additional graded card just sounds better, psychologically. And no one wants to hear about additional insurance costs. If your card is valued that high that adding it to the total significantly increases its insured value, you should factor that into the total shipping cost to begin with.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Do your competitors all get discounts? Why even bring them into the discussion? Just because they have a different business model, buy low from you and BIN high means you are not a competitor but simply a supplier for them. >>
Yes, they all get discounts. I bring them into a discussion, because when they ding my stars for "shipping fee", yet turn around and have the exact same shipping fee as me, what exactly does that say?!?!?!?!
Well I just had a chance to come back and catch up with the thread. A good discussion with a lot of different viewpoints. I personally don't have a problem with bidders having the ability to leave DSR ratings. I don't even have a problem with losing a discount when the DSR ratings go down. What I still have a problem with is Paypal/eBay freezing funds of a seller who has an impeccable 13 year track record of reliable sales history on eBay. Even if my shipping charges are 'outrageous', that doesn't give Paypal the right to hold my funds in escrow while they sock it in the bank and earn a return on them. I personally think they just look for excuses to be able to confiscate funds to improve their bottom line.
After reading through everything and contemplating, I'll just switch to free shipping from now on and build in the shipping costs to the starting bid. Then potential buyers can decide whether they want to buy the card or not and everyone will be happy. That will take the shipping DSR out of the equation and will also make it easier to calculate my selling costs since I won't have to factor in the additional FVF on the shipping charge.
One thing I will say is I'm absolutely not making money on shipping at $1 additional per card, especially since many of the cards I'm selling are going for $100 or more each. When I add up all the fees and then subtract out what people contribute for shipping, I'm still over $2,000 in the red just for the past six months. I'd find it hard to complain if I bought two $100 cards and get charged $204 total to get the cards to me. However, I don't want to sound like I'm whining. I certainly don't complain when I buy a card off eBay and have the seller shoulder the entire burden of the auction premium.
I'm not sure how much more I'll sell on eBay before changing venues but I can see myself using eBay to buy and other sites to sell. Maybe a lot of other long time eBay sellers have come to the same conclusion. It's certainly much more difficult to find cards I need on eBay than it used to be. Even higher population commons appear much less regularly than they used to on eBay.
The thing is, many buyers don't care about your fee's to them that's your burden. They don't care about insurance, packing materials, etc. They only care about the price it costs to actually ship the item. And if it costs 1.71 all of thier 1.71 better be used.
At least that's what I've been told.
Steve
Edited to add: I wholeheartedly agree regarding PP holding your funds, that's BS.
<< <i>I'm not sure people here understand the concept of a 'bonus'. It is not something you are entitled to. It is not a right of passage. The entity giving out the bonus has 100% control over who gets it and who doesn't. Before DSR's there was no bonus, now there is. If you get it you should look at it as found money; if not, that's life. Maybe ebay's standards for deciding who gets a bonus and who doesn't is unfair, but guess what- it's their bonus to give out and they can decide to give it to whomever they wish! If you're that offended, find another format on which to sell your cards.
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
Lee >>
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here?
<< <i>Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? >>
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
<< <i>Or the guy from PWCC? >>
Another consigner. Making money off other people's items....
<< <i>Or Levi from 707? >>
LOL!!!! Really?!?!?! The guy charges PSA 8 prices for his PSA 4's....what has HE got to complain about?!?!?!?!
Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there....
Those who say you must deal with the reality in place are right on the money. Wishing things were more to our liking is just that...wishing. As far as consigners not having to deal with problem buyers, not sure I agree with that. Bobby, sounds like you don't have unhappy customers but rather someone is messing with you. Why not purchase the cards back, leave negs, ding their stars and demand a refund because of SNAD? Then be sure those folks are on yout BBL.
<< <i>Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there.... >>
I haven't read this thread since this morning, and I see it has totally blown up. However, I completely agree with this statement.
<< <i>I'm not sure people here understand the concept of a 'bonus'. It is not something you are entitled to. It is not a right of passage. The entity giving out the bonus has 100% control over who gets it and who doesn't. Before DSR's there was no bonus, now there is. If you get it you should look at it as found money; if not, that's life. Maybe ebay's standards for deciding who gets a bonus and who doesn't is unfair, but guess what- it's their bonus to give out and they can decide to give it to whomever they wish! If you're that offended, find another format on which to sell your cards.
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
Lee >>
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here? >>
Not sure what your point is. Who are you addressing this to and about what specifically? There have been several issues discussed in this thread. Is it about whether or not DSRs should exist, whether they should knock down your seller rating or whether Paypal should hold up your funds because of DSR ratings or something else?
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here? >>
If whining about eBay on the PSA boards is a waste of mental energy, what is whining about the eBay whiners a waste of?
Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of....
So you mean to tell me the 'little guy' is not treated the same as the big dog? Please name me one facet of life where this would happen on even a semi-consistent basis.
<< <i>So you mean to tell me the 'little guy' is not treated the same as the big dog? Please name me one facet of life where this would happen on even a semi-consistent basis. >>
How about the US Senate? Every state has 2 representives no matter how big the state is. Even our wise members of government realized that the House of Representives wasn't the only way to go.....
<< <i>Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? >>
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
<< <i>Or the guy from PWCC? >>
Another consigner. Making money off other people's items....
<< <i>Or Levi from 707? >>
LOL!!!! Really?!?!?! The guy charges PSA 8 prices for his PSA 4's....what has HE got to complain about?!?!?!?!
Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there.... >>
So, all Rick's buyers are paragons of reason and class because he doesn't sell his own stuff? Does that mean if I go rip off the local hobby shop and sell the boxes I steal on Ebay then all my buyers will give me five stars?
<< <i>How about the US Senate? Every state has 2 representives no matter how big the state is. Even our wise members of government realized that the House of Representives wasn't the only way to go..... >>
If you think the senators from Wyoming wield the same power as those from California, you are sadly mistaken.
<< Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? >>
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
==> hi guys, actually, I own around 20% of my own inventory ( ie the gretzky rookie, etc. ) , the other 80% are consignments...
re my stance on buyers.... I believe the client is king - and they should be treated as such , and I try to do whatever is fair even when they are wrong... you take the good with the bad and everything works out in the end... I have a list of over 50 blocked buyers who tried to take advantage of the system or are just toxic...
The seller's discount is not an entitlement but has to be earned by a semi-decent amount of sales and nearly perfect customer service. Even then you (the seller), are still subjected to random drilling by anonymous buyers who are either unhappy about something in the transaction or spiteful.
Also the selling discount was rolled out at the same time ebay jacked up selling fees at a pretty high level. In essence throwing some sellers a bone to offset the price increases. I think great service 'should' be rewarded, but I think the problem has to do with unreasonable buyers in some instances who feel they can 'get back' at the seller for whatever reason they feel is justified. That usually results in DRS star drillage.
The problem I have is sometimes you can't narrow down who left a bad DSR and what transaction might have been in involved, so how does a seller know what parts of the transaction that they must improve on to provide better customer service.
Obviously any buyer that drills your DSR's is not going to have the balls to email the seller and say 'you need to lower your shipping or package the items better'. That buyer would get blocked right away by most sellers.
There 'should' be a way for ebay to improve the system they have in place where the buyers and sellers can discuss or exchange emails about problems with the transaction with neither party flying off the handle and going to DSR drill state or blocked bidder island.
Those who don't sell any volume on ebay are probably unaware of the money grab ebay is now doing with the shipping costs. As of I think last April, ebay started taking a percentage out of the shipping amount from sellers. For $3 shipping, ebay takes out 33 cents. So when you're complaining about high shipping charges, you the buyer, 'should' really be complaining to ebay about their high fees. As fee's keep going up sellers will leave the site. It's already been happening over the past few years.
With the postal increase going into effect Monday, more sellers will be losing on the shipping costs more than ever.
Frankly I could care less what a seller charges for shipping. I factor it into my bid and move on. I also would never drill a seller on the shipping DSR, as I know what those costs are up front and have factored them into my bid or BIN purchase.
I also feel sellers 'should' makes some money on the shipping to help offset the multitude of fee's they have to deal with: final value fees, listing fees, possible ebay store fees, paypal fees, paypal shipping fees, postage, insurance, state and federal taxes, packaging costs (mostly padded mailers), and all of the other expenses that go along with selling on ebay.
I think the OP has every right to voice his opinion on the shabby treatment he's getting from ebay and or customers on the DSR abuse. He's not whining, he's telling like it is.
Cardbender makes a great point. Nobody ever directly complained to me about my shipping costs. The only complaint I received was one buyer who left positive feedback and said he felt my shipping costs were too high. He never directly contacted me to say what he felt was fair (maybe any shipping cost in his mind is too high) or ask me for a partial refund. I guess one could argue that I should have reached out to him to offer a refund. I had one other buyer who paid immediately after the close of auctions when eBay automatically invoiced him without combined shipping costs. He emailed me about the problem and I immediately refunded him the difference. He paid immediately the following week and I again refunded the difference, this time before he even pointed it out to me. That was the only instance where someone paid before combined shipping costs were reflected in the invoice. I always have to ask sellers to invoice me with the combined shipping costs and i dont have an issue with that. Frankly I think eBay should prevent winning bidders from being able to pay until the seller invoices. That way the seller can combine shipping costs and remove sales tax (for repeat buyers with sellers permits).
Comments
<< <i>As a buyer why shouldn't I have the right to rate shipping charges? Just because I agree to pay what was specified in the auction doesn't make the charges reasonable.
There is a simple alternative if a seller doesn't want to be rated on shipping charges, offer free shipping. Complaining that it will end up costing the buyer more in the end is complete nonsense. The only reason a seller wouldn't offer free shipping is because they realize it will cost them more in the end, either through fewer sales or no (small) profit center from their existing shipping charges.
Cheers,
Robb >>
it's Shipping AND Handling Charges per their categorization, which of course is nothing more than a vague overlay to what really gets done.
NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item."
then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!!
so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become?
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>
<< <i>As a buyer why shouldn't I have the right to rate shipping charges? Just because I agree to pay what was specified in the auction doesn't make the charges reasonable.
There is a simple alternative if a seller doesn't want to be rated on shipping charges, offer free shipping. Complaining that it will end up costing the buyer more in the end is complete nonsense. The only reason a seller wouldn't offer free shipping is because they realize it will cost them more in the end, either through fewer sales or no (small) profit center from their existing shipping charges.
Cheers,
Robb >>
it's Shipping AND Handling Charges per their categorization, which of course is nothing more than a vague overlay to what really gets done.
NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item."
then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!!
so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become? >>
While I agree with everything you say on principle, a buyer HAS to be allowed to rate on Shipping charges even if he agrees to them. If I agree to pay shipping $3 for a card, and it shows up in a PWE, how else can I rate that other than unacceptable? I'm not saying anyone here does that, but it happens a lot.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
if you received an item in a PWE and it was thrashed on the way to you, it is then NOT AS DESCRIBED. there's a category for that, too.
you still agreed to pay the S/H fee as mandated by the seller. i've mentioned before that i wouldn't care if they tied it to a pigeon as long as it was what they showed me in the scan.
<< <i>the PWE thing in and of itself is a crackup. i've seen the threads about it here. and i've NEVER received a damaged card which showed up in a PWE. some were vintage cards which now reside in PSA holders.
if you received an item in a PWE and it was thrashed on the way to you, it is then NOT AS DESCRIBED. there's a category for that, too.
you still agreed to pay the S/H fee as mandated by the seller. i've mentioned before that i wouldn't care if they tied it to a pigeon as long as it was what they showed me in the scan.
I have a number of sources I use that have landed me great cards, and I think a well-protected raw card in a PWE is a great way to ship, but they charge an amount in line with the fact they ship in a PWE. If I pay what looks like a non-PWE price (like $3+), then getting a PWE smacks of a seller making money off shipping.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
NO ONE should be allowed to rate after agreeing to BUY. it's a dysfunctional aspect of the site. by agreeing to pay the S/H you are essentially saying "That's fine with me. I will pay that because I want the item." then, to be ALLOWED to alter the path of an otherwise honest and decent seller is complete and utter BULLCRAP!!
so, are you saying you would buy an item to not only enjoy the pleasure of owning it, but also to expose someone whose policy you don't necessarily agree with? is this what we've become?
Alter the path? Not sure what exactly that means.
I will expose someone if I don't agree with their shipping & handling charges same as I would if they misrepresent their item via their description. Why wouldn't I? I am given the ability to rate the transaction across multiple facets and am giving my honest assessment. If you don't want to be rated on S&H you have a mechanism to prevent that provided by eBay. Use it. Just because some buyers misuse the DSR system doesn't mean the system is unfair or flawed. There is a segment of the population that will misuse/abuse anything.
eBay even gives sellers a discount on their fees if they do a good job and make their customers happy as rated by DSRs. So the DSR system helps good sellers. Are there situations where the system is a little draconian (like freezing funds due to DSR) absolutely but that doesn't mean rating system is wrong. It just means Paypal is applying the results of the ratings unfairly in a few select cases.
Cheers,
Robb
as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses.
if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because.
if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place?
so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because."
i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house?
Going off on tangents will do that.
Now a little fuel. Gemint (John) is a buddy of mine.
However, if anyone of the Beckett board rejects said that they charged 4.00 plus 1.00
each extra, capped at 12.00 this thread would have been: Potential: Way above average.
Now it's off to the sidelines for Stevie.
<< <i>if you don't want to be rated on S/H, then allow yourself to be manipulated into making it different. that's really the bugaboo, here.
as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses.
if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because.
if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place?
so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because."
i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house? >>
You really need to dial down the hyperbole a bit. I get that you've got a real hot button for getting your DSRs dinged. But just because I say a seller shouldn't charge bubble mailer prices and then ship in a PWE, I'm somehow suggesting he's "using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune"??? Really??
If I buy from someone that disappoints me on any significant facet of the sale - appropriate shipping costs being one of them - I generally don't buy there again unless he has an item I can't find elsewhere.
As for your pizza delivery scenario, I'd start ordering pizza elsewhere, but if someone asked my opinion of the place that had the high delivery charge I'd damn sure tell them. And that's what DSRs are doing, asking my opinion. The fact that Ebay uses the DSRs in such a heavy-handed way isn't the fault of the buyers.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
and i've rarely had any problem with my own ratings until recently. but i do see it as problem which will only compound itself.
people are and always will be entitled to their opinions.
i don't agree with anyone being allowed to use an opinion as a method of defamation.
there's got to be a better way to separate praise and criticism. i wish i knew what that was.
as for the idea that sellers are using S/H as a profit center to amass a small fortune off of your generosity is just silly. seriously, just how much extra money do you think anyone is pocketing off of shipping besides the bigtime sellers who also put the most extra effort and involvement into their businesses.
if you commit to a purchase, you shouldn't be allowed to come back and nail a seller just because.
if you have a suspicion of a seller using your S/H dollars as a profit center, then why would you even bother to do business with that person in the first place?
so, it allows to say "I want my stuff, but I'm still gonna kick you in the cajones. Just because."
i mean, would you stop ordering pizza because you thought the delivery charge was kind of high? or would you still order pizza, but go around telling people how crummy the business is because you had to pay a couple extra bucks for a pimply-faced kid to bring it to your house?
I would tell people their pizza is great but they screw you on the delivery charge. Not really sure where you were going with that one. You act like having an opinion on the service you are receiving is somehow wrong and that your only option should be to stop doing business with someone if your opinion is at all negative.
If you don't think sellers making $1-2 per eBay transaction on S&H aren't figuring that into their overall equation for selling on eBay then you are naive. You keep equating being unhappy with a S&H overcharge to no longer doing business with a seller which is silly. If a business you frequent starts doing something you don't like you let them know so they can stop doing whatever it is you don't like. If they don't change then you can make a determination as to whether to continue doing business with them going forward. DSRs are a way to let sellers know how they are doing. Sellers get caught up in the negative aspect of it, loss of discount, holding of payments, etc rather than focusing on what the DSRs are telling them about their selling practices. eBay has made something positive out of DSRs for sellers by giving them a discount if they get high ratings, discounts are a good thing and obviously not every seller deserves one.
Robb
<< <i>you're right bking, it bugs me.
and i've rarely had any problem with my own ratings until recently. but i do see it as problem which will only compound itself.
people are and always will be entitled to their opinions.
i don't agree with anyone being allowed to use an opinion as a method of defamation.
there's got to be a better way to separate praise and criticism. i wish i knew what that was. >>
Agreed...
In my opinion, the problem is simply that the whole feedback thing is misused. Show me any other site where it's such a huge problem to have the occasional unhappy customer - it happens. Only on Ebay is a single unhappy customer such a major cause for angst, and it's because they just don't have a way to properly measure the experience, it's far too kludgy. Feedback is useless as no one is "allowed" to speak their mind in they only have a minor nit to pick ; DSRs are only a source of discount drama; a single grumpy customer can get a small-time seller held hostage - it's all just too troublesome.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
i don't remember it being quite so difficult when we just paid our fees, as minimal as they were. [yawn] yeah, those were the days. [/yawn]
bking said no more hyperbole, so i guess a metaphor will do.
damn those mischievious kids for throwing rocks through our windows.
<< <i>as far as dinging stars......and i do believe in this strongly....you agreed to the charges, you bid, you confirmed bid..you are legally into that transaction... now to all the people that are sneaky and decide to ding stars after this...their stars they leave should be made public........now when these sneaks do this and if people could see how devious they are, they will block them from bidding (except win pitcher).. it is time they make ebay a bit more seller friendly... >>
I agree stars should be public. I suspect Ebay made them private as a way to avoid all the pissing matches that negative feedback has led to.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>discounts are a good thing and obviously not every seller deserves one >>
There is a false statement if I ever heard one. I feel like I deserve one - do I get a discount?? NO! I ship next day on all my orders. I pack better than any other seller I have ever encountered. Just because a couple of sellers don't like me charging for shipping and have decided to ding my stars, then I lose my discount. The ironic thing is that I see my items that they won from me via auction for cheap prices, for sale in their store at a high markup with, get this, THE EXACT SAME SHIPPING CHARGE I HAVE!! Gimme a freaking break. Too much of a conflict of interest when your competitor can ruin your profit margin if you ask me.....
Don't get me started on all the flaws in the DSR system. It has too many ways to manipulate the data which only benefits Ebay's bottom line.
Not a false statement at all. You don't get a discount because you don't qualify for one and thus don't deserve it according to eBay, pretty simple. If you really wanted the discount you would offer free shipping and then not have your sub par DSR score impact your discount.
This would not be a discussion if eBay did not offer a mechanism for ensuring a high S&H DSR but they do. You simply choose not to take advantage of it. Hopefully because you have a done a cost benefit analysis and realized you make more in the end by charging for shipping. You don't get to have your cake and eat it to.
Do your competitors all get discounts? Why even bring them into the discussion? Just because they have a different business model, buy low from you and BIN high means you are not a competitor but simply a supplier for them.
As for the DSR system would folks really prefer the old days when you were given a Neg for high shipping? That hurt sales and profits far more than any lack of discount due to a low DSR.
Cheers,
Robb
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
Lee
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Do your competitors all get discounts? Why even bring them into the discussion? Just because they have a different business model, buy low from you and BIN high means you are not a competitor but simply a supplier for them. >>
Yes, they all get discounts. I bring them into a discussion, because when they ding my stars for "shipping fee", yet turn around and have the exact same shipping fee as me, what exactly does that say?!?!?!?!
After reading through everything and contemplating, I'll just switch to free shipping from now on and build in the shipping costs to the starting bid. Then potential buyers can decide whether they want to buy the card or not and everyone will be happy. That will take the shipping DSR out of the equation and will also make it easier to calculate my selling costs since I won't have to factor in the additional FVF on the shipping charge.
One thing I will say is I'm absolutely not making money on shipping at $1 additional per card, especially since many of the cards I'm selling are going for $100 or more each. When I add up all the fees and then subtract out what people contribute for shipping, I'm still over $2,000 in the red just for the past six months. I'd find it hard to complain if I bought two $100 cards and get charged $204 total to get the cards to me. However, I don't want to sound like I'm whining. I certainly don't complain when I buy a card off eBay and have the seller shoulder the entire burden of the auction premium.
I'm not sure how much more I'll sell on eBay before changing venues but I can see myself using eBay to buy and other sites to sell. Maybe a lot of other long time eBay sellers have come to the same conclusion. It's certainly much more difficult to find cards I need on eBay than it used to be. Even higher population commons appear much less regularly than they used to on eBay.
The thing is, many buyers don't care about your fee's
to them that's your burden. They don't care about insurance, packing
materials, etc. They only care about the price it costs to actually ship the item.
And if it costs 1.71 all of thier 1.71 better be used.
At least that's what I've been told.
Steve
Edited to add: I wholeheartedly agree regarding PP holding your funds, that's BS.
<< <i>I'm not sure people here understand the concept of a 'bonus'. It is not something you are entitled to. It is not a right of passage. The entity giving out the bonus has 100% control over who gets it and who doesn't. Before DSR's there was no bonus, now there is. If you get it you should look at it as found money; if not, that's life. Maybe ebay's standards for deciding who gets a bonus and who doesn't is unfair, but guess what- it's their bonus to give out and they can decide to give it to whomever they wish! If you're that offended, find another format on which to sell your cards.
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
Lee >>
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here?
<< <i>Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? >>
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
<< <i>Or the guy from PWCC? >>
Another consigner. Making money off other people's items....
<< <i>Or Levi from 707? >>
LOL!!!! Really?!?!?! The guy charges PSA 8 prices for his PSA 4's....what has HE got to complain about?!?!?!?!
Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there....
The potential meter went from hot to medium with the edit.
No balls.
Ok....
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there.... >>
I haven't read this thread since this morning, and I see it has totally blown up. However, I completely agree with this statement.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure people here understand the concept of a 'bonus'. It is not something you are entitled to. It is not a right of passage. The entity giving out the bonus has 100% control over who gets it and who doesn't. Before DSR's there was no bonus, now there is. If you get it you should look at it as found money; if not, that's life. Maybe ebay's standards for deciding who gets a bonus and who doesn't is unfair, but guess what- it's their bonus to give out and they can decide to give it to whomever they wish! If you're that offended, find another format on which to sell your cards.
If someone comes into my restaurant and says we gave his friend a 20% discount for being a repeat customer and that he's also a repeat customer and should also get the discount, I'm going to be less inclined to give him anything. Maybe I like his friend better. Maybe I value his business more. Maybe he brings friends with him every time he comes in. Whatever the case, just because one guy gets a discount doesn't mean I'm going to give it to the other guy. The sense of entitlement in this country is absurd; everybody wants everything everybody else has and they feel slighted if they don't get it.
Lee >>
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here? >>
Not sure what your point is. Who are you addressing this to and about what specifically? There have been several issues discussed in this thread. Is it about whether or not DSRs should exist, whether they should knock down your seller rating or whether Paypal should hold up your funds because of DSR ratings or something else?
<< <i>
The key word here is 'should'. This is the most useless word in the English-speaking world. I think this is why I originally became interested in studying economics, since it's a field where most of the practitioners have only a passing interest in what 'should' happen; they're much more interested in what 'does' happen.
I don't care one lick whether someone 'should' ding your stars, call your sister bad names, or blah blah blah because your shipping charges are 'xyz'. The fact is that people DO ding your DSR for shipping charges, which means you should either a) adjust your shipping charges so it doesn't happen anymore, or b) shut up and deal with it. The third alternative-- i.e., whining on the PSA message boards- is neither helpful or illustrative. It amounts to a waste of mental energy and bandwidth.
Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? Or Roger from 4SC? Or the guy from PWCC? Or Brett from 'vintagerookies'? Or Levi from 707? You know why? Because they're too busy making money to ask people to pull out their violins. Which means, in a roundabout way, that it's also in YOUR best interest to take a play out of their freaking playbook and either use Ebay-- warts and all-- to make you money, or just don't use it all.
Nothing screams 'amateur' like someone complaining about market dynamics. It recalls, for me, the guys who whine about how their bottom set 'should' hold up in a hold 'em game, or how the Cowboys 'should' have covered laying four and the hook. For the love of God, just shut up and deal. The world is a cold, dirty, and unfair place. How did you guys not get this memo some 30-40 years after getting here? >>
If whining about eBay on the PSA boards is a waste of mental energy, what is whining about the eBay whiners a waste of?
So you mean to tell me the 'little guy' is not treated the same as the big dog? Please name me one facet of life where this would happen on even a semi-consistent basis.
<< <i>So you mean to tell me the 'little guy' is not treated the same as the big dog? Please name me one facet of life where this would happen on even a semi-consistent basis. >>
How about the US Senate? Every state has 2 representives no matter how big the state is. Even our wise members of government realized that the House of Representives wasn't the only way to go.....
<< <i>
<< <i>Why doesn't Rick Probstein come on these boards and complain about high-maintenance buyers? >>
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
<< <i>Or the guy from PWCC? >>
Another consigner. Making money off other people's items....
<< <i>Or Levi from 707? >>
LOL!!!! Really?!?!?! The guy charges PSA 8 prices for his PSA 4's....what has HE got to complain about?!?!?!?!
Most of the people getting the shaft are the little guy...A seller who has small proft margins to begin with is going to feel the effects of malicious intent alot more than someone charging 5 times the true value of something or the Ebay consignor making his money off other people's purchases....the people who don't sell enough to absorb one or two idiots or malicious dingers trying to drive out the competition is the one getting hurt here. Your statements don't really hold water there.... >>
So, all Rick's buyers are paragons of reason and class because he doesn't sell his own stuff? Does that mean if I go rip off the local hobby shop and sell the boxes I steal on Ebay then all my buyers will give me five stars?
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>How about the US Senate? Every state has 2 representives no matter how big the state is. Even our wise members of government realized that the House of Representives wasn't the only way to go..... >>
If you think the senators from Wyoming wield the same power as those from California, you are sadly mistaken.
Tabe
Because Rick is not really a seller of his own stuff. He takes consignments. He doesn't have a horse in this race......
==> hi guys, actually, I own around 20% of my own inventory ( ie the gretzky rookie, etc. ) , the other 80% are consignments...
re my stance on buyers....
I believe the client is king - and they should be treated as such , and I try to do whatever is fair even when they are wrong...
you take the good with the bad and everything works out in the end...
I have a list of over 50 blocked buyers who tried to take advantage of the system or are just toxic...
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
amount of sales and nearly perfect customer service. Even then you (the seller), are
still subjected to random drilling by anonymous buyers who are either unhappy about
something in the transaction or spiteful.
Also the selling discount was rolled out at the same time ebay jacked up selling fees
at a pretty high level. In essence throwing some sellers a bone to offset the price
increases. I think great service 'should' be rewarded, but I think the problem has to
do with unreasonable buyers in some instances who feel they can 'get back' at the seller
for whatever reason they feel is justified. That usually results in DRS star drillage.
The problem I have is sometimes you can't narrow down who left a bad DSR and what transaction
might have been in involved, so how does a seller know what parts of the transaction
that they must improve on to provide better customer service.
Obviously any buyer that drills your DSR's is not going to have the balls to email the seller
and say 'you need to lower your shipping or package the items better'. That buyer would
get blocked right away by most sellers.
There 'should' be a way for ebay to improve the system they have in place where
the buyers and sellers can discuss or exchange emails about problems with the transaction
with neither party flying off the handle and going to DSR drill state or blocked bidder island.
Those who don't sell any volume on ebay are probably unaware of the money grab ebay
is now doing with the shipping costs. As of I think last April, ebay started taking a percentage
out of the shipping amount from sellers. For $3 shipping, ebay takes out 33 cents. So when
you're complaining about high shipping charges, you the buyer, 'should' really be complaining
to ebay about their high fees. As fee's keep going up sellers will leave the site. It's already been
happening over the past few years.
With the postal increase going into effect Monday, more sellers will be losing on the shipping
costs more than ever.
Frankly I could care less what a seller charges for shipping. I factor it into my bid and move on.
I also would never drill a seller on the shipping DSR, as I know what those costs are up front
and have factored them into my bid or BIN purchase.
I also feel sellers 'should' makes some money on the shipping to help offset the multitude of
fee's they have to deal with: final value fees, listing fees, possible ebay store fees, paypal fees,
paypal shipping fees, postage, insurance, state and federal taxes, packaging costs (mostly padded mailers),
and all of the other expenses that go along with selling on ebay.
I think the OP has every right to voice his opinion on the shabby treatment he's getting
from ebay and or customers on the DSR abuse. He's not whining, he's telling like it is.
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