<< <i>Do a little investigation to see if the coin was in the envelope in the first place and go from there. A while ago I did a BST purchase that had no coin inside the envelope and upon a little checking it was concluded that there was never a coin inside when the envelope was mailed. >>
That would be a lame scam--a scam that leaves the scammer responsible? Looks like buyers are going to have to go back to ebay.
When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. YES, before you shoot me I agree seller should refund etc. and etc. - but the buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known. My .02 and I am sorry this happened to you.
Best, Eric
Edited to add: Of course, yes, there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for. If it is a BST member here I wonder how established they are here. With scams up these days I am always worried about new folks, selling or buying, in the BST.
BringMeDown, you blurred out the name, didn't mention any name and the seller should have offered you a refund because this is not how you send a coin. Shame on them
Definately don't out anyone. This happenned with a PO machine. The envelope does not look like the type I ever send or receive coins in. Something a bit more sturdy would have been more appropriate. Hopefullfy the seller will reimburse you, that is what I would do. I hope this was not a high end transaction.
You didn't out anyone -- it's not your fault that you have fewer posts than even me so it's trivial to figure out who the seller was. Since you paid with paypal your purchase should be covered by buyer protection ... unless you paid by the Personal payments method.
I say give the seller another opportunity to see the error of his ways. He sent the coins to you through a method not allowed by the USPS. Whether he's run into problems in the past or not doesn't change that fact.
<< <i>Contains items such as pens, pencils, keys, or coins that cause the thickness of the mailpiece to be uneven; or loose keys or coins or similar objects not affixed to the contents within the mailpiece. Loose items may cause a letter to be nonmailable when mailed in paper envelopes; (see 601.2.3, Odd-Shaped Items in Paper Envelopes).
Odd-Shaped Items in Paper Envelopes Pens, pencils, key rings, bottle caps, and other similar odd-shaped items are not permitted in letter-size or flat-size paper envelopes unless they are wrapped within the other contents of the envelope to streamline the shape of the mailpiece and prevent damage during postal processing. >>
If he doesn't agree to refund your money, file a claim through paypal. Be sure to let them know he asked you to pay the paypal fee which is a violation of their TOCs.
<< <i>Sellers fault 100% he took a risk by such poor packaging. The minimum is a bubble mailer with filps inside and taped very well. The envelopes go through high speed machines and are subject to a lot of abuse in the mail. Reasonable care was not taken to pack and ship these coins.The sellers needs to make this right imo >>
Bottom line.
Many, many perfect transactions with other members. Ask please.
it is not the sellers responsibilty to deliver the package, it the responsibility of the POST office to deliver the package. its the responsibility of the seller to package the item in a way that it would be expected to survive the ride
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>it is not the sellers responsibilty to deliver the package, it the responsibility of the POST office to deliver the package. its the responsibility of the seller to package the item in a way that it would be expected to survive the ride >>
So you agree the seller failed in this one, right? Inadequate packaging and the buyer should already have a refund from the seller. Lack of doing so would not put the seller in a good light, imho.
Post office "delivered the package"...too bad the key component was missing due to poor seller shipping techniques
I see FabreCastells comment, no one else inquires about shipping method and insurance in their own interests? I can't believe that.
Eric >>
Huh?
As a seller, I either insure or take the risk, else I state upfront what shipping + INSURANCE costs are. To do elsewise is not wise. As a buyer, I expect you to get the material to me and not make any excuses about the post office or anything else. If I don't receive the merchandise I paid for, I expect a refund.
Pretty simple.
There are many ways to make the above happen....all have different costs associated. Seller needs to figure those costs and accept whichever he uses. Buyer needs to receive the goods and has paid what the seller and he agreed to.
There are probably many forum members who are not set up to pay by paypal and use either a personal check or a money order to pay for their BST forum purchases. For high dollar purchases (over $100 insurance paid by the purchaser is a given) but what are ground rules that pertain for purchases under $100 in a circumstance such as this? Granted the seller didn't get the coin to the purchaser due to bad packaging.
Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on something like this.
<< <i>It looks to me like the coins were loose in the envelope, it's bad enough that they went through the sorting equipment in the first place but without placing them in a 2x2 they can get squeezed right out of the envelope. >>
They don't get squeezed out- they get flung out. To see how it happens, seal a coin in an envelope. Hold one end of the envelope back over your shoulder and let the coin fall to the bottom. Swing your arm forward like you're chopping with a hatchet. If you do it right, your envelope will look like this...
and the coin will be gone. This is what happens in the post office's sorting equipment.
PS- if you decide to do this test, find a safe spot outside. The coin will definitely go flying.
<< <i>There are probably many forum members who are not set up to pay by paypal and use either a personal check or a money order to pay for their BST forum purchases. For high dollar purchases (over $100 insurance paid by the purchaser is a given) but what are ground rules that pertain for purchases under $100 in a circumstance such as this? Granted the seller didn't get the coin to the purchaser due to bad packaging. >>
In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry
<< <i>it is not the sellers responsibilty to deliver the package, it the responsibility of the POST office to deliver the package. its the responsibility of the seller to package the item in a way that it would be expected to survive the ride >>
Post Office is seller's agent (at the choice of the seller) and any problems with the PO failing to fulfil their contract with the seller should be dealt with by the seller. Seller is responsible for getting merchandise to a buyer, even if he contracts out the delivery.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I see FabreCastells comment, no one else inquires about shipping method and insurance in their own interests? I can't believe that.
Eric >>
Huh?
As a seller, I either insure or take the risk, else I state upfront what shipping + INSURANCE costs are. To do elsewise is not wise. As a buyer, I expect you to get the material to me and not make any excuses about the post office or anything else. If I don't receive the merchandise I paid for, I expect a refund.
Pretty simple.
There are many ways to make the above happen....all have different costs associated. Seller needs to figure those costs and accept whichever he uses. Buyer needs to receive the goods and has paid what the seller and he agreed to.
Again, pretty simple. >>
Hello Bochiman,
I make NO argument for the seller. Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely on folks I don't know personally or have not bought from before to ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer.
<< <i>There are probably many forum members who are not set up to pay by paypal and use either a personal check or a money order to pay for their BST forum purchases. For high dollar purchases (over $100 insurance paid by the purchaser is a given) but what are ground rules that pertain for purchases under $100 in a circumstance such as this? Granted the seller didn't get the coin to the purchaser due to bad packaging. >>
In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry >>
I whole heartedly agree with you comments and would expect nothing less. - Namwalker
In any event I would be surprised if a major auction company didn't reimburse someone that bought a stolen coin in one of their auctions if for no other reason than to avoid a lawsuit and the bad publicity resulting from such a lawsuit. In such a case it would be written up in the coin papers and the auction company would look bad resulting in a loss of business.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>A seller is responsible for safe delivery. It is (or should be) well known that an unprotected envelope is asking for trouble when it gets snagged in a machine. You're due a full refund or replacement. The USPS may have done the ripping, but it's entirely on the seller. >>
Truth.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry >>
Excellent! Now I know where I can spend by gizzards! They were getting a bit ripe!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I have never seen so many forum members agree to something in one posts, I concur with everyone else; the packaging was horrid. For that reason alone, seller should re-reimburse buyer.
Seller is responsible for goods to arrive in condition purchased as no matter what method of shipment, no matter what happens in between package leaves sellers hands until package arriving inbuyers hands.
Seller is responsible for goods arriving intact, not an envelope.
I work at the Post Office (waiting for the boos to die down) on the Small Parcel Bundle Sorting machine. I can confirm that anyone who mails coins in a "conventional" envelope is asking for trouble. These coins, if present in the first place, are now somewhere under the machine which is approximately half a football field long and won't be discovered until said machine is dismantled. Totally the sellers fault.
"The more you complain, the longer God lets you live".
<< <i>I work at the Post Office (waiting for the boos to die down) on the Small Parcel Bundle Sorting machine. I can confirm that anyone who mails coins in a "conventional" envelope is asking for trouble. These coins, if present in the first place, are now somewhere under the machine which is approximately half a football field long and won't be discovered until said machine is dismantled. Totally the sellers fault. >>
If an item like that ended up causing damage to the machine, would the USPS go after the sender?
I agree with the group, it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer. If that doesn't happen for whatever reason, seller should refund the full purchase price.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I agree with everyone who says that the package was improperly sent out.I would also like a PM with the person involved,only because I would NEVER want a coin or coins sent to me in that manner.Short of that I guess I will have to quiz every pospective seller on how he packs the coins,and that wont make me many friends here.
<< <i>I agree with everyone who says that the package was improperly sent out.I would also like a PM with the person involved,only because I would NEVER want a coin or coins sent to me in that manner.Short of that I guess I will have to quiz every pospective seller on how he packs the coins,and that wont make me many friends here. >>
I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked which method of shipping i'd use for a buyers coin,i doubt many others here would and those who get offended are probably best avoided. A 4" x 6" bubble padded yellow envelope costs 50c , if that's too much to ask then the seller needs to rethink things.
I got a note from a buyer recently that the packaging on an item was not sufficient for his liking. There was no damage to the package. There was no damage to the coin. The charges were about $2 higher than costs. The issue was: I'd anticipated the coin selling for $90, so I had the shipping at $3.95 to cover insurance and signature confirmation. The coin sold for $16.
It's intriquing to me that the buyer would be the unhappy camper in this wagon train. I asked that he send item back, but haven't heard a peep since.
I can't believe seller sent coin like that. File a paypal claim if the seller does not want to refund you. Hope you paid for it by credit card. If you paid for it by credit card then you are covered by credit card if not by paypal. Good luck.
Man..... what I wouldn't give to be the one with the contract to eventually dismantle that Small Parcel Bundle Sorting Machine in the post Office and get a crack at everything that's fallen out under it for all those years!!
<< <i>Man..... what I wouldn't give to be the one with the contract to eventually dismantle that Small Parcel Bundle Sorting Machine in the post Office and get a crack at everything that's fallen out under it for all those years!!
- - Dave >>
Heheh, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can get Daniel Carr to buy one, he's had good luck with such things before.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Postal regs expressly forbid any rigid items in standard mail. Sellers fault all the way.
>>
The envelope shown is first class mail-not standard mail. Standard mail is the current term for third class mail (formerly known as "Junk mail").
I agree that it is the sellers fault. "If you don't insure- then you self-insure." should be the doctrine here-- Which means the seller must pay up unless you agreed to not have them insured or you did not want to pay for insurance. If there is no mention of insurance then it is assumed (at least in my mind) that the seller will provide it. JMO--Bob
"If there is no mention of insurance then it is assumed (at least in my mind) that the seller will provide it."
WOW. With a dealer, but this is a seller in the BST! Having read this very thread, do folks think this won't happen? Maybe I should say I don't really give a hoot about the sellers logic or responsibilities right now. I am, and have been, speaking to self protection in the form of a question.
That's what I am talking about, right up there - assuming (cue Tony Randall), expecting etc. I will restate my case (more or less). When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. The buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known. Of course there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for (I'll pay extra and often do with delicate photographs and other stuff I collect. Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely (or ASSUME) that folks I don't know personally, or have not bought from before, will ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Looks like they did not in this case (this is the BST HERE, right?). I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer or seller, including this one, who sent this coin in this manner to OP.
Seller might as well have spent it and waited for it to circulate to the OP.
<< <i>"If there is no mention of insurance then it is assumed (at least in my mind) that the seller will provide it."
WOW. With a dealer, but this is a seller in the BST! Having read this very thread, do folks think this won't happen? Maybe I should say I don't really give a hoot about the sellers logic or responsibilities right now. I am, and have been, speaking to self protection in the form of a question.
That's what I am talking about, right up there - assuming (cue Tony Randall), expecting etc. I will restate my case (more or less). When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. The buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known. Of course there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for (I'll pay extra and often do with delicate photographs and other stuff I collect. Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely (or ASSUME) that folks I don't know personally, or have not bought from before, will ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Looks like they did not in this case (this is the BST HERE, right?). I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer or seller, including this one, who sent this coin in this manner to OP.
Seller might as well have spent it and waited for it to circulate to the OP. >>
Insurance is irrelevant. On a $50 coin I hope people aren't wasting their money on insurance. I am always surprised by how many buyers want sellers to buy insurance. Just as the seller is responsible for delivery, it is also the sellers business whether they want to buy insurance. --Jerry
I am saying ask a question, any question, to get a dialog started and avoid this stupidity here the OP experienced. Goodness. Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. I really don't care, I want the coin in the condition I bought it in. My post was not about buying insurance - it was about communication.
<< <i>I am saying ask a question, any question, to get a dialog started and avoid this stupidity here the OP experienced. Goodness. Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. I really don't care, I want the coin in the condition I bought it in. My post was not about buying insurance - it was about communication.
Eric
edited for early am spelling. >>
You can also communicate with me about my sex life and bathroom habits but they are none of your business, just as insurance is none of your business. --Jerry
<< <i>Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. >>
Only the seller can insure the coin. Also, since the seller is responsible for delivering the coin to the buyer, insurance is to protect the seller and not the buyer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Man..... what I wouldn't give to be the one with the contract to eventually dismantle that Small Parcel Bundle Sorting Machine in the post Office and get a crack at everything that's fallen out under it for all those years!!
- - Dave >>
Heheh, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can get Daniel Carr to buy one, he's had good luck with such things before.
Sean Reynolds >>
Naw ... next thing you know Dan would start "replicating" stamps and drive the philatelists crazy!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. >>
Only the seller can insure the coin. Also, since the seller is responsible for delivering the coin to the buyer, insurance is to protect the seller and not the buyer. >>
True ... and so often misunderstood by both buyers and sellers.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
When I buy stuff on the BST I find that sellers tend to go on the over-package side of things. Not that I mind getting my coins in good order. Like the 5K cents that arrived a couple of weeks ago were packaged like they were going to the moon, the box arrived shredded but the cents were packaged in another box and plastic wrap inside the outer box so all was right.
Have to plan on the PO treating your package like garbage folks, cause unfortunately to some employees that is all it is.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Has this thing ever been addressed to the satisfaction of the buyer?
It doesn't take a genius with the search engine to see who it's referring to, I recommend if that person is still around, you may wanna step up and attempt to save what's left of your reputation.
Comments
<< <i>Do a little investigation to see if the coin was in the envelope in the first place and go from there. A while ago I did a BST purchase that had no coin inside the envelope and upon a little checking it was concluded that there was never a coin inside when the envelope was mailed. >>
That would be a lame scam--a scam that leaves the scammer responsible? Looks like buyers are going to have to go back to ebay.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. YES, before you shoot me I agree seller should refund etc. and etc. - but the buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known. My .02 and I am sorry this happened to you.
Best,
Eric
Edited to add: Of course, yes, there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for. If it is a BST member here I wonder how established they are here. With scams up these days I am always worried about new folks, selling or buying, in the BST.
Since you paid with paypal your purchase should be covered by buyer protection ... unless you paid by the Personal payments method.
I say give the seller another opportunity to see the error of his ways. He sent the coins to you through a method not allowed by the USPS. Whether he's run into problems in the past or not doesn't change that fact.
<< <i>Contains items such as pens, pencils, keys, or coins that cause the thickness of the mailpiece to be uneven; or loose keys or coins or similar objects not affixed to the contents within the mailpiece. Loose items may cause a letter to be nonmailable when mailed in paper envelopes; (see 601.2.3, Odd-Shaped Items in Paper Envelopes).
Odd-Shaped Items in Paper Envelopes Pens, pencils, key rings, bottle caps, and other similar odd-shaped items are not permitted in letter-size or flat-size paper envelopes unless they are wrapped within the other contents of the envelope to streamline the shape of the mailpiece and prevent damage during postal processing. >>
If he doesn't agree to refund your money, file a claim through paypal. Be sure to let them know he asked you to pay the paypal fee which is a violation of their TOCs.
<< <i>Sellers fault 100% he took a risk by such poor packaging. The minimum is a bubble mailer with filps inside and taped very well.
The envelopes go through high speed machines and are subject to a lot of abuse in the mail.
Reasonable care was not taken to pack and ship these coins.The sellers needs to make this right imo >>
Bottom line.
<< <i>it is not the sellers responsibilty to deliver the package, it the responsibility of the POST office to deliver the package. its the responsibility of the seller to package the item in a way that it would be expected to survive the ride >>
So you agree the seller failed in this one, right?
Inadequate packaging and the buyer should already have a refund from the seller. Lack of doing so would not put the seller in a good light, imho.
Post office "delivered the package"...too bad the key component was missing due to poor seller shipping techniques
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I see FabreCastells comment, no one else inquires about shipping method and insurance in their own interests? I can't believe that.
Eric
<< <i>Hi All,
I see FabreCastells comment, no one else inquires about shipping method and insurance in their own interests? I can't believe that.
Eric >>
Huh?
As a seller, I either insure or take the risk, else I state upfront what shipping + INSURANCE costs are. To do elsewise is not wise.
As a buyer, I expect you to get the material to me and not make any excuses about the post office or anything else. If I don't receive the merchandise I paid for, I expect a refund.
Pretty simple.
There are many ways to make the above happen....all have different costs associated. Seller needs to figure those costs and accept whichever he uses. Buyer needs to receive the goods and has paid what the seller and he agreed to.
Again, pretty simple.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on something like this.
<< <i>It looks to me like the coins were loose in the envelope, it's bad enough that they went through the sorting equipment in the first place but without placing them in a 2x2 they can get squeezed right out of the envelope. >>
They don't get squeezed out- they get flung out. To see how it happens, seal a coin in an envelope. Hold one end of the envelope back over your shoulder and let the coin fall to the bottom. Swing your arm forward like you're chopping with a hatchet. If you do it right, your envelope will look like this...
and the coin will be gone. This is what happens in the post office's sorting equipment.
PS- if you decide to do this test, find a safe spot outside. The coin will definitely go flying.
<< <i>There are probably many forum members who are not set up to pay by paypal and use either a personal check or a money order to pay for their BST forum purchases. For high dollar purchases (over $100 insurance paid by the purchaser is a given) but what are ground rules that pertain for purchases under $100 in a circumstance such as this? Granted the seller didn't get the coin to the purchaser due to bad packaging. >>
In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry
<< <i>it is not the sellers responsibilty to deliver the package, it the responsibility of the POST office to deliver the package. its the responsibility of the seller to package the item in a way that it would be expected to survive the ride >>
Post Office is seller's agent (at the choice of the seller) and any problems with the PO failing to fulfil their contract with the seller should be dealt with by the seller. Seller is responsible for getting merchandise to a buyer, even if he contracts out the delivery.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>Hi All,
I see FabreCastells comment, no one else inquires about shipping method and insurance in their own interests? I can't believe that.
Eric >>
Huh?
As a seller, I either insure or take the risk, else I state upfront what shipping + INSURANCE costs are. To do elsewise is not wise.
As a buyer, I expect you to get the material to me and not make any excuses about the post office or anything else. If I don't receive the merchandise I paid for, I expect a refund.
Pretty simple.
There are many ways to make the above happen....all have different costs associated. Seller needs to figure those costs and accept whichever he uses. Buyer needs to receive the goods and has paid what the seller and he agreed to.
Again, pretty simple. >>
Hello Bochiman,
I make NO argument for the seller. Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely on folks I don't know personally or have not bought from before to ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer.
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>There are probably many forum members who are not set up to pay by paypal and use either a personal check or a money order to pay for their BST forum purchases. For high dollar purchases (over $100 insurance paid by the purchaser is a given) but what are ground rules that pertain for purchases under $100 in a circumstance such as this? Granted the seller didn't get the coin to the purchaser due to bad packaging. >>
In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry >>
I whole heartedly agree with you comments and would expect nothing less. - Namwalker
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>A seller is responsible for safe delivery. It is (or should be) well known that an unprotected envelope is asking for trouble when it gets snagged in a machine. You're due a full refund or replacement. The USPS may have done the ripping, but it's entirely on the seller. >>
Truth.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>In an honest environment, you don't need rules or paypal. I don't care if a buyer pays me in chicken gizzards and batwings. if the coin doesn't get there, I will refund him if I'm the seller. --Jerry >>
Excellent! Now I know where I can spend by gizzards! They were getting a bit ripe!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Seller is responsible for goods arriving intact, not an envelope.
<< <i>I work at the Post Office (waiting for the boos to die down) on the Small Parcel Bundle Sorting machine. I can confirm that anyone who mails coins in a "conventional" envelope is asking for trouble. These coins, if present in the first place, are now somewhere under the machine which is approximately half a football field long and won't be discovered until said machine is dismantled. Totally the sellers fault. >>
If an item like that ended up causing damage to the machine, would the USPS go after the sender?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I agree with everyone who says that the package was improperly sent out.I would also like a PM with the person involved,only because I would NEVER want a coin or coins sent to me in that manner.Short of that I guess I will have to quiz every pospective seller on how he packs the coins,and that wont make me many friends here.
<< <i>I agree with everyone who says that the package was improperly sent out.I would also like a PM with the person involved,only because I would NEVER want a coin or coins sent to me in that manner.Short of that I guess I will have to quiz every pospective seller on how he packs the coins,and that wont make me many friends here.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked which method of shipping i'd use for a buyers coin,i doubt many others here would and those who get offended are probably best avoided. A 4" x 6" bubble padded yellow envelope costs 50c , if that's too much to ask then the seller needs to rethink things.
<< <i>We could play guess the grade of the envelope
NO Grade PMD
Post Mailing Damage
<< <i>I have never seen so many forum members agree to something in one post >>
a terrible way to send a coin to someone ???
The coin sold for $16.
It's intriquing to me that the buyer would be the unhappy camper in this wagon train. I asked that he send item back, but haven't heard a peep since.
Sometimes we can't win for losing.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
- - Dave
<< <i>Man..... what I wouldn't give to be the one with the contract to eventually dismantle that Small Parcel Bundle Sorting Machine in the post Office and get a crack at everything that's fallen out under it for all those years!!
- - Dave
Heheh, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can get Daniel Carr to buy one, he's had good luck with such things before.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Postal regs expressly forbid any rigid items in standard mail. Sellers fault all the way.
The envelope shown is first class mail-not standard mail. Standard mail is the current term for third class mail (formerly known as "Junk mail").
I agree that it is the sellers fault. "If you don't insure- then you self-insure." should be the doctrine here-- Which means the seller must pay up unless you agreed to not have them insured or you did not want to pay for insurance. If there is no mention of insurance then it is assumed (at least in my mind) that the seller will provide it. JMO--Bob
WOW.
With a dealer, but this is a seller in the BST! Having read this very thread, do folks think this won't happen? Maybe I should say I don't really give a hoot about the sellers logic or responsibilities right now. I am, and have been, speaking to self protection in the form of a question.
That's what I am talking about, right up there - assuming (cue Tony Randall), expecting etc.
I will restate my case (more or less). When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. The buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known.
Of course there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for (I'll pay extra and often do with delicate photographs and other stuff I collect.
Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely (or ASSUME) that folks I don't know personally, or have not bought from before, will ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Looks like they did not in this case (this is the BST HERE, right?). I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer or seller, including this one, who sent this coin in this manner to OP.
Seller might as well have spent it and waited for it to circulate to the OP.
<< <i>"If there is no mention of insurance then it is assumed (at least in my mind) that the seller will provide it."
WOW.
With a dealer, but this is a seller in the BST! Having read this very thread, do folks think this won't happen? Maybe I should say I don't really give a hoot about the sellers logic or responsibilities right now. I am, and have been, speaking to self protection in the form of a question.
That's what I am talking about, right up there - assuming (cue Tony Randall), expecting etc.
I will restate my case (more or less). When I buy things I care about, I always state exactly how I want the items shipped and insured. It doesn't take that much time and seems worth it to me, as a buyer, to do what I can to get that item to me in the condition I bought it in. A simple question about "how will this be insured"....might have done a lot? If I was buyer here I'd feel I bear some of this responsibility. The buyer is part of the transaction in my mind. The buyer knows his expectations of packaging etc. - won't kill you to make them known.
Of course there is a reasonable expectation of sanity in shipping from a seller (a dealer is different and whoever this BST person is they ought to know better), but I still like to make sure it is what I am paying for (I'll pay extra and often do with delicate photographs and other stuff I collect.
Speaking for myself, as a buyer (as I was in my earlier post), I simply will not expect or blindly rely (or ASSUME) that folks I don't know personally, or have not bought from before, will ship things to my satisfaction. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Looks like they did not in this case (this is the BST HERE, right?). I prefer not find out the way the OP did so I always clarify all terms in any transaction. Seems wise. I see no downside to clarification for either party. It would be nice to be able to buy coins from all sources packed like a certain dealer in Texas packs them, but that is not the case with any/every dealer or seller, including this one, who sent this coin in this manner to OP.
Seller might as well have spent it and waited for it to circulate to the OP. >>
Insurance is irrelevant. On a $50 coin I hope people aren't wasting their money on insurance. I am always surprised by how many buyers want sellers to buy insurance. Just as the seller is responsible for delivery, it is also the sellers business whether they want to buy insurance. --Jerry
Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. I really don't care, I want the coin in the condition I bought it in. My post was not about buying insurance - it was about communication.
Eric
edited for early am spelling.
<< <i>I am saying ask a question, any question, to get a dialog started and avoid this stupidity here the OP experienced. Goodness.
Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. I really don't care, I want the coin in the condition I bought it in. My post was not about buying insurance - it was about communication.
Eric
edited for early am spelling. >>
You can also communicate with me about my sex life and bathroom habits but they are none of your business, just as insurance is none of your business. --Jerry
Eric
<< <i>Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. >>
Only the seller can insure the coin. Also, since the seller is responsible for delivering the coin to the buyer, insurance is to protect the seller and not the buyer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Man..... what I wouldn't give to be the one with the contract to eventually dismantle that Small Parcel Bundle Sorting Machine in the post Office and get a crack at everything that's fallen out under it for all those years!!
- - Dave
Heheh, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can get Daniel Carr to buy one, he's had good luck with such things before.
Sean Reynolds >>
Naw ... next thing you know Dan would start "replicating" stamps and drive the philatelists crazy!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, as a buyer, personally, I will insure. >>
Only the seller can insure the coin. Also, since the seller is responsible for delivering the coin to the buyer, insurance is to protect the seller and not the buyer. >>
True ... and so often misunderstood by both buyers and sellers.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Eric
Have to plan on the PO treating your package like garbage folks, cause unfortunately to some employees that is all it is.
It doesn't take a genius with the search engine to see who it's referring to, I recommend if that person is still around, you may wanna step up and attempt to save what's left of your reputation.