US Mint plans to issue 2012-S Uncirculated Silver Eagle
revoldlog
Posts: 459
From mintnewsblog:
"The US Mint plans to offer a 2012-S Uncirculated Silver Eagle. This will be in addition to the collectible uncirculated version with the “W” mint mark."
Quote directly from the US Mint 2011 annual report:
"We also reprised the West Point mint mark for the American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin in 2011 and look forward to expanding this offering to include the San Francisco mint mark in 2012."
Will this be good or bad for the 2011-S unc silver eagle??
"The US Mint plans to offer a 2012-S Uncirculated Silver Eagle. This will be in addition to the collectible uncirculated version with the “W” mint mark."
Quote directly from the US Mint 2011 annual report:
"We also reprised the West Point mint mark for the American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin in 2011 and look forward to expanding this offering to include the San Francisco mint mark in 2012."
Will this be good or bad for the 2011-S unc silver eagle??
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I don't know if it will be good for the 2011s in the long run though. Perhaps it will begin a subgroup, and then they will create a hole in it by not striking any 2014s SAEs for anyone.
<< <i>I'm really disappointed there's no "D" as well. >>
Maybe in the 30th Anniversary set ??
<< <i>Yeah, don't give them ideas or we will begin seeing commem gold struck at Dehlonega and Charlotte too! >>
That would be cool!
It will definitely add a new dimension to the collecting of Silver Eagles and have little effect on the 2011-S other than to boost it's already popular status. Low mintage coins have always been and will continue to be popular and pricey.
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edit....I love the Mint....!!!
One "key" difference - the 2006-W was also available from the Mint as an individual coin. The 2011-S was only available in the 25th Anniversary Set.
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<< <i>have little effect on the 2011-S other than to boost it's already popular status. Low mintage coins have always been and will continue to be popular and pricey. >>
I disagree. There's a difference between being the key to a series, and being the entire series
I just wish the TPG multi-holders were back......
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1995 W say hello to 2011 S
<< <i>How the coin is marketed (burnished "S" collector coin vs. non-burnished monster box "S" bullion coin) will have an large impact on final yearly sales (and final mintage figures). Mintnewsblog was not clear on this issue other than to refer to it as an "uncirculated silver eagle." >>
Quote directly from the US Mint 2011 annual report:
"We also reprised the West Point mint mark for the American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin in 2011 and look forward to expanding this offering to include the San Francisco mint mark in 2012."
From the wording, I think it means the mint to sell collector version of 2012-S Uncirculated and 2012-W Uncirculated coins.
<< <i>1995 W say hello to 2011 S >>
Can you pls. further expound on this statement?
The other post on top says that the new 2012 S would deminish the value of the 2011 S in the Anniversary set?
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<< <i>
<< <i>1995 W say hello to 2011 S >>
Can you pls. further expound on this statement?
The other post on top says that the new 2012 S would deminish the value of the 2011 S in the Anniversary set? >>
1995 W, lowest mintage proof EVER only available in a 4 coin gold set
2011-S lowest mintage burnished EVER only available in 25th Ann Sets @ a very fast sellout
very eerie similarities, wouldn't be like saying the 2000-w proof hurt the 1995-w ?
The mintage of future S mint marks will be similar to the Burnished W's,
with more S mint mark years it should bring more possible collectors, that would need the 2011-S
<< <i>
<< <i>have little effect on the 2011-S other than to boost it's already popular status. Low mintage coins have always been and will continue to be popular and pricey. >>
I disagree. There's a difference between being the key to a series, and being the entire series
I agree with you 100%. I think that this is HORRIBLE news. Much of the joy of ownership of the 2001 S lies in it's being unique. This REALLY detracts from this coin in my mind. I'm am very bummed about this. I don't see any way that this does not really hurt the 2011 S. WHAT A BUMMER! The Mint sure knows how to kill the party :-(
I fear that there will be market dilution with these but can't see them hitting 100k after the flack the US Mint got in 2011.
IMO the mintmark unc. ASEs are darn nice collectables.
<< <i>Even if they make the "S" mint mark coin for the next 20 years.......#1 The first year #2 Inclusion in the 25th anniversary set............should not affect prices on the 25 sets at all......IMO >>
I very much hope that you all are right!!
Ladies and gentleman we will have a new W burnished key next year, and the 2012S coin will take the #2 spot in its respective series
Box of 20
This should put an end to the stupid 2012 (S) from San Francisco that the third party graders have ben putting out since 2011 because sealed
monster boxes have the mint strap on them.
If they do not have an S on them they are not from San Francisco in my opinion.
Things are getting confusing enough with all the different labels without that too.
<< <i>This should put an end to the stupid 2012 (S) from San Francisco that the third party graders have ben putting out since 2011 because sealed
monster boxes have the mint strap on them.
If they do not have an S on them they are not from San Francisco in my opinion.
Things are getting confusing enough with all the different labels without that too. >>
I think 99% of the people reading this agree with you, but I'm sad to say we're all out of luck. No way will the TPGs stop the very confusing mint labeling due to a band around a monster box when there's so much money at stake. The fact of the matter is that many of the larger modern dealers are sending thousands of extra ASEs to the graders for the 'attributed' label as apparently thousands of people collect that crap on eBay. Essentially, the TPGs are giving the market what it wants so as long as people are paying a premium for the (S) vs non-mint mark than the madness will continue.
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<< <i>1995 W, lowest mintage proof EVER only available in a 4 coin gold set 2011-S lowest mintage burnished EVER only available in 25th Ann Sets @ a very fast sellout very eerie similarities, wouldn't be like saying the 2000-w proof hurt the 1995-w ? The mintage of future S mint marks will be similar to the Burnished W's, with more S mint mark years it should bring more possible collectors, that would need the 2011-S >>
I agree that if the S coin runs for a long enough period of time that in the end continuing it may be a good thing. HOWEVER, clearly it's bad for the coin in the short run IMO if they give us another S in the way of a burnished release that will compete with the W burnished coin. The problem here is that at 100K, the 2011 S coin is rare by ASE standards, but that's still 100K MS coins. By issuing a 2012 S, that could very well end with a 200,000 or fewer mintage, that would mean the ratio of the second key to the '11S would only be 2:1 (or something close to that). Your example of the 95W isn't relevant as the next lowest proof mintage is '94 at 372,168 coins. That's a ratio of over 10:1 and clearly solidifies the 95W coin's key position. Keep in mind interest for burnished silver eagles has been waning and the S coin this year will be competing with the W coin as well. If interest remains roughly the same for the burnished eagles than we can expect to see S mintage levels of between 150K to 300K yearly. At those levels we'll see a very low mean mintage to key ratio and that doesn't bode well for the '11 S IMO. Furthermore some of the mystique, being the first and only S ase ever, will be gone and ASE type collectors will have a different S coin to buy for their album if they chose to do so. Hopefully I'm wrong about this as I'm sitting on more than a few S coins right now
<< <i>
<< <i>1995 W, lowest mintage proof EVER only available in a 4 coin gold set 2011-S lowest mintage burnished EVER only available in 25th Ann Sets @ a very fast sellout very eerie similarities, wouldn't be like saying the 2000-w proof hurt the 1995-w ? The mintage of future S mint marks will be similar to the Burnished W's, with more S mint mark years it should bring more possible collectors, that would need the 2011-S >>
<< <i>
I agree that if the S coin runs for a long enough period of time that in the end continuing it may be a good thing. HOWEVER, clearly it's bad for the coin in the short run IMO if they give us another S in the way of a burnished release that will compete with the W burnished coin. The problem here is that at 100K, the 2011 S coin is rare by ASE standards, but that's still 100K MS coins. By issuing a 2012 S, that could very well end with a 200,000 or fewer mintage, that would mean the ratio of the second key to the '11S would only be 2:1 (or something close to that). Your example of the 95W isn't relevant as the next lowest proof mintage is '94 at 372,168 coins. That's a ratio of over 10:1 and clearly solidifies the 95W coin's key position. Keep in mind interest for burnished silver eagles has been waning and the S coin this year will be competing with the W coin as well. If interest remains roughly the same for the burnished eagles than we can expect to see S mintage levels of between 150K to 300K yearly. At those levels we'll see a very low mean mintage to key ratio and that doesn't bode well for the '11 S IMO. Furthermore some of the mystique, being the first and only S ase ever, will be gone and ASE type collectors will have a different S coin to buy for their album if they chose to do so. Hopefully I'm wrong about this as I'm sitting on more than a few S coins right now
I agree, the only thing that would help would be if they did the burnished S only and not the W, since that would keep the ratio higher. I don't believe that's the plan, but that is a scenerio that might actually help the 11S.
Hoard the keys.
I like it myself and may just buy a few instead of selling all of my (W) sets so I have 3 or 4 sets of each to keep my fingers in coin collecting.
If they can get the legislation they will put a press on a truck and drag it to Charlotte, Dahlonega, New Orleans, Denver and Carson City striking coins at every stop.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Ladies and gentleman we will have a new W burnished key next year, and the 2012S coin will take the #2 spot in its respective series
I agree with you. Of course, demand plays an important part, but I suspect that as silver prices trend higher, mintages will languish and then drop off. I don't think that the 2011-S and 2011-P Reverse Proof coins will be impacted, but the rest will. Give it about 3 years.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>In the comments section over on MintNewsBlog, someone said they received a US Mint survey and one of the questions was how interested they would be in a two-coin silver set containing an S mintmarked eagle and a reverse proof eagle, priced at $125 with a household limit of two, released annually. I know these ideas that the Mint comes up with don't always come to fruition, but this is really scaring me. I like that the reverse proofs are special and would hate to see them available every year. >>
I got that email survey also. They were also asking what the interest would be in a possible set for 2013.
1. The mint says that they want to set the mintage at 200,000 special sets with a per household limit.
2. They will sell out at the $125-150 price range they are looking at.
3. The W mint marked issues have been going through a classic inaugural spike mintage drop since 2006w (go look at page 50 of our first book) This tends to bottom out around 30% of peak so without split demand the coin is about a 210,000 mintage coin. Now if you assume that the 12s, 13s etc are going to cannibalize sales and use a .6 multiplier which is typical then the 13w, 14w etc are likely to stay above 125,000 going forward.
So the bottom line in my view is the 2012S etc is likley going to be a 200,000 mintage coin for the next few years. When the 12S sells out violently and it will, the heat will spill over to the 12W to some extent and I think it will sell 200,000+ coins too. If the price of silver does not go nuts then its likely over an extended period of time to see all the mint marked silver eagles stay over the 125,000 mark.
As you guys know it is my view that the silver eagle is the modern Morgan and that mint marked silver eagles are the modern "CC". There are many structural reasons for this that I will not go over again here but I will point out one thing. The 1880, 1881 and 1885 CC Morgans with their over 130,000 mint state surviving populations are not the king of the CC set and certainly not the king of the broader Morgan series but they all trade at $500 to $600 each at the center of their mint state grading bell line curve. It will take time but I have no reason to believe that these coins will not trade in that range at the time of series maturity (who knows how long that is). Popularity is important. Ask your self what a 100,000 mintage silver proof 50 state quarter set would sell for. These coins are like that and the Mint is about to emphasize the silver eagles in their marketing efforts.
Big populations are a wonderful thing because they can contribute to collector base development. At the same time a staggered mintage table produces numismatic flare that can help promote collector base formation too. If the Mint cranks through mint marked coins and the mintages stay up over 150,000 coins at each branch mint then its likely to help the 25 anniversary set just as the 25th set helped the MUCH more common 20th set and the coin could be driven into the $500+ MS69 price range over the next 10 years or less. If the branch Mint issues sales sag into the 100,000 to 125,000 range then the 11s will not preform as well as it would have without low mintage siblings.
Its not obvious to me at this point that this new silver dollar marketing focus is going to hurt the 25th set. I think its good policy over the next 10 years if you want to park some money to become a roll collector of mint marked silver ealges.
<< <i>
<< <i>1995 W, lowest mintage proof EVER only available in a 4 coin gold set 2011-S lowest mintage burnished EVER only available in 25th Ann Sets @ a very fast sellout very eerie similarities, wouldn't be like saying the 2000-w proof hurt the 1995-w ? The mintage of future S mint marks will be similar to the Burnished W's, with more S mint mark years it should bring more possible collectors, that would need the 2011-S >>
I agree that if the S coin runs for a long enough period of time that in the end continuing it may be a good thing. HOWEVER, clearly it's bad for the coin in the short run IMO if they give us another S in the way of a burnished release that will compete with the W burnished coin. The problem here is that at 100K, the 2011 S coin is rare by ASE standards, but that's still 100K MS coins. By issuing a 2012 S, that could very well end with a 200,000 or fewer mintage, that would mean the ratio of the second key to the '11S would only be 2:1 (or something close to that). Your example of the 95W isn't relevant as the next lowest proof mintage is '94 at 372,168 coins. That's a ratio of over 10:1 and clearly solidifies the 95W coin's key position. Keep in mind interest for burnished silver eagles has been waning and the S coin this year will be competing with the W coin as well. If interest remains roughly the same for the burnished eagles than we can expect to see S mintage levels of between 150K to 300K yearly. At those levels we'll see a very low mean mintage to key ratio and that doesn't bode well for the '11 S IMO. Furthermore some of the mystique, being the first and only S ase ever, will be gone and ASE type collectors will have a different S coin to buy for their album if they chose to do so. Hopefully I'm wrong about this as I'm sitting on more than a few S coins right now
Regardless of the facts and figures presented two things are for certain:
1. The 2011-S will ALWAYS be the FIRST Burnished S mint Uncirculated SAE.
2. There are lots and lots of SAE collectors that want to have one of each SAE. Not 1 of each type, not 1 of each variety but 1 of every SAE produced.
Lastly, 100,000 just does not go very far with today's SAE collectors. Imagine, if you will, were the US Mint to only produce 100,000 US Proof Sets? Or Mint Sets? The mayhem would be felt for years.
For a little perspective, look at the 1970 US Mint Sets. Total Production of 2.03 million yet, since the Kennedy is only available in that mint set, they still sell for close to 3 times their original issue price. 2.03 Million.
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There's also the 2011-P Reverse Proof at 100K (ratio 3.3 to 1) and the 2006-P Reverse Proof at 250K. Granted they are not the only proofs of their date, were not issued as stand-alone coins and were instead released only as part of larger sets, but the same is true of the 1995-W.
Another similarity with the 1995-W is that both reverse proofs are needed to complete SE proof registry sets.
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<< <i>For a little perspective, look at the 1970 US Mint Sets. Total Production of 2.03 million yet, since the Kennedy is only available in that mint set, they still sell for close to 3 times their original issue price. 2.03 Million. >>
Perhaps.. However, if you factor in the inflation rate, you've still lost money. Same holds true for the 73 Silver Ike.