Collecting and dealing in the today
Justacommeman
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I initially was going to post this in Aureolas Borealis FUN thread but didn't want to take the chance to potentially derail it. Actually, an exchange with Wei in the aforementioned thread set this thought in motion.
Chalk it up as the sign of times that Aureolas Borealis was able to put together a world class collection of fantastic toned Morgans, Indian's and a smattering of wonderful type coins without EVER setting a single toe on a bourse floor. No shows ever. Pretty remarkable or at least I felt so when he mentioned this to me a couple years ago. Connections ( a physical internet connection, a telephone and a small network of dealers and collectors) is all it took........... a pile of cash is also highly recommended for an endeavor his size but that is far from the point.
Yes, the bourse and after show hours do offer social opportunities and outside stimuli which enhances the overall collecting experience. But, surly at the end of the day the "show experience" could be construed as just an extension to establish even more "connections" for future purchases. In AB's example NOT at all necessary!
Shift 180 degrees. There seems to be entirely way too many coin shows. Which in my opinion is unhealthy for the hobby. Here are just a few reasons I feel this way on the dealer side of the ledger for example: (FWIW I'm a collector and not a dealer )
1) dealer fatigue which leads to unforced errors which inevitably leads to higher prices and or lower standards. Most dealers are one or two man operations by pure necessity
2) skinnier maintained margins (the internet being the great equalizer)
3) higher net prices to collectors as dealer overhead is a real cost that must be factored into the equation. Both collectors and dealers must eat. Otherwise there is no incentive
4) collectors can afford to be choosy if they wish from the shows that they attend to the subsequent purchases they make. It's way harder to be as picky for a dealer. With so many shows the dilemma is exacerbated. The economic scale is daunting. Possible, but daunting none the less.
I truly sympathize with national dealers as they really need to attend most if not all shows. If they skip shows they end up second guessing themselves to death in a couple of transparent ways. The worry of the ole potential missed deal/opportunity and the concern of not being in the face of the public when their competition might be. These are legitimate concerns. Regardless, one day there will be less shows whether the industry plans for it or not. The current format is unsustainable for dealers and perhaps collectors as well. More space in between shows would actually breath freshness into the hobby. A show would actually mean something, instead of being just the next show on the calendar.
MJ
Chalk it up as the sign of times that Aureolas Borealis was able to put together a world class collection of fantastic toned Morgans, Indian's and a smattering of wonderful type coins without EVER setting a single toe on a bourse floor. No shows ever. Pretty remarkable or at least I felt so when he mentioned this to me a couple years ago. Connections ( a physical internet connection, a telephone and a small network of dealers and collectors) is all it took........... a pile of cash is also highly recommended for an endeavor his size but that is far from the point.
Yes, the bourse and after show hours do offer social opportunities and outside stimuli which enhances the overall collecting experience. But, surly at the end of the day the "show experience" could be construed as just an extension to establish even more "connections" for future purchases. In AB's example NOT at all necessary!
Shift 180 degrees. There seems to be entirely way too many coin shows. Which in my opinion is unhealthy for the hobby. Here are just a few reasons I feel this way on the dealer side of the ledger for example: (FWIW I'm a collector and not a dealer )
1) dealer fatigue which leads to unforced errors which inevitably leads to higher prices and or lower standards. Most dealers are one or two man operations by pure necessity
2) skinnier maintained margins (the internet being the great equalizer)
3) higher net prices to collectors as dealer overhead is a real cost that must be factored into the equation. Both collectors and dealers must eat. Otherwise there is no incentive
4) collectors can afford to be choosy if they wish from the shows that they attend to the subsequent purchases they make. It's way harder to be as picky for a dealer. With so many shows the dilemma is exacerbated. The economic scale is daunting. Possible, but daunting none the less.
I truly sympathize with national dealers as they really need to attend most if not all shows. If they skip shows they end up second guessing themselves to death in a couple of transparent ways. The worry of the ole potential missed deal/opportunity and the concern of not being in the face of the public when their competition might be. These are legitimate concerns. Regardless, one day there will be less shows whether the industry plans for it or not. The current format is unsustainable for dealers and perhaps collectors as well. More space in between shows would actually breath freshness into the hobby. A show would actually mean something, instead of being just the next show on the calendar.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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Comments
Human nature being what it is:
The shows will run until a major show crashes and burns.
The auctions will get bigger until one " ".
The Mint will continue to pump mass quantities of stuff until that market collapses, NOT weakens...collapses.
Then we'll do a re-start and things will get better, how long it takes...who knows?
These are market cycles and they have happened before.
Call me old fashioned, but I'm a big fan of the shows.
The internet certainly is a wonderful option, as it has an endless 'bourse on display' 24 X 7. For many in remote areas, or with
busy schedules, it's a great alternative to attending shows in person.
Juiced photos, Ebay crooks, and intense competition driving online auction prices sky high are just some of the reasons it's no panacea.
Nothing beats seeing hundreds of coins in hand, and negotiating/discussing coins face to face, IMO.
Yes, there does seem to be too many shows. I'm thinking evolution/natural selection will eventually take care of that. Santa Clara folded up, and it sounds like
Long Beach may be headed that way if modifications aren't made.
Eager to hear what others think.
I am also a collector who rarely attends shows due to my schedule. It is terribly difficult to take a few days off (not to mention spend the $100s to travel, lodge, etc) to got to a show and hope that I might find a nice double dime or a missing Overton variety or an ancient brockage. The great majority of my core pieces have been purchased via electronic means. A wonderful advantage to today's collector is the ability to create a strong network of dealers and auction houses while not having to travel. For example, of the 350+ Overton varieties I have been able to assemble, well under a dozen were purchased as shows.
Small, local shows are fun, but usually are a bust for me as what I collect has become fairly focused. In addition, local shows usually don't have, well, how can I put this ... "intellectually stimulating" dealers. A notable exception was the last show in Sacramento where I met the bright and charming, Charmy, and a "new" (to me) error dealer with a gift for enlightening conversation.
One huge downside to not traveling to national or regional shows is I miss out on the in-person camaraderie and the always enjoyable "putting a face to a name" that occurs.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The biggest show killer for me has been the smaller club oriented shows. Major shows are almost always successful. Between the public and trading between other dealers there is always enough butter to spread on the bread.
These smaller club oriented shows all have aspirations of becoming the next major show. They have increased the size of the shows to the point of where they are going to implode! I finally started cutting out a few of these shows last year. One of my best shows used to be a 22 table show 10 years ago. The area has lost 40% of their collector base in the last 5 years due to a huge military base closing. It is now a 70+ table show due to the aspirations of their bourse chairman. The last show had 10 dealer no shows! I wonder why??? The area can not and will never support 70 tables. I have had it on probation for the past year. The only thiong that has kept me coming back is what I am able to buy at the show as probably 70% of the dealers at the show are now of the flea market mentality and look at me like I am crazy when I pay 50% more than they offer for coins! If I had to depend on my sales I would loose money! I get so tired of offering good advice,etc and offer good prices only to have a potential customer go buy a srubbed up piece of crap instead of my nice original coin for 10 or 20% less. There is only so much butter to spread on the bread. Thes smaller shows need to take note. The show I just mentioned is now in a cash negative position on their show. The only thing that is keeping them afloat is their raffle. The first time I do the show and loose money(I do figure purchasing as part of the game) and I will not return! Most of the other what I consider non flea market types have the same thoughts as I do!
Acquiring and often selling coins is a goal, but when I look at my purchases from this year's ANA, they were all made from dealers that I normally buy from, and in every case, I would have received the same coins by mail the following week had I not attended. However, I met esteemed forum members and great guys like BigMoose and Barndog (who probably would not agree to be mailed to me the following week), attended the gold coin collectors club meeting (with old friends and met some new folks), and had the opportunity to display some of my widgets at Doug Winter's table (allowing me to meet and reconnect with more people and spread the gospel of dirty gold). None of these would have been possible had I stayed home.
I agree that there are too many coin shows, but take away the ones I cannot or would not attend (Long Beach, for example).
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Ironically, if ebay weren't getting so expensive and difficult, the dealers would be in real trouble right now. Selling person to person saves 14%. That's a good start on a profit margin. And shows allow you to buy. If you didn't have those barriers to competition, a little guy with a laptop could compete toe to toe.
Steve
Obviously people can build nice collections without attending shows as has been noted here. At least for me, meeting dealers face-to-face has allowed me to see coins that were never available on the Internet and to find dealers willing to serve a want list. The latter has been the best part because the dealers go to way more shows than I can and, my guess is, they do not find these coins surfing the Internet.
Coin shows are especially important for dealers-because they make it easier for material to be traded/sold and new inventory aquired. Uploading images and descriptions are time consuming and many times dealers will not upload everything because of how much time it takes.
The concept of cutting down major shows is an idea but the question is how much it will help.
The large shows attract the most people and tend to be the best for sales. Naturally people would want these shows to stay open.
If one thinks that going to so many shows is to big of a burden I would think they can just stay home.
Remember that not every dealer makes it to all the large shows and dealers from the east coast might want to stay more local as well as dealers out west doing the same.
Same with small shows. most general folk cannot travel to the large shows and something in their backyard once or twice a month is great for them.
My thought is that each show (big and small) offers alot to each dealer and collector.
Its tough to make everyone happy and there may not be a good answer for auctions either
Auction before the show, fills up dealer cases but lowers cash flow on their part, while auctions after the show has dealers not sure if they are still commited to coins for the upcoming auction and hurts cash flow.
Of the major shows that exist, they are entirely too long. There is no need for ANY show to be more than 3 days long, preferably 2.5 days. These long shows raise everyone's travel costs without adding a single benefit. The reason these shows are so long is the auction companies force it upon the show promoters so the auctions can be bigger and spread over more days.
There are entirely too many "major" auctions. It's apparently not enough for these companies to have an auction at every major show. Now, they are having random auctions for no reason. Stacks/Bowers upcoming January "Americana" sale, Heritage's upcoming March sale (so Heritage can take money out of the market from SB's March Baltimore auction). Enough auctions!
The auctions are far too big. Obviously, the Duckor Saints deserve a major auction. But why do I need a major auction to see a crappy MS63 1881-S Morgan or an MS 64 Elgin half? Save those coins for the bourse floor, eBay, or dealer websites. The 15% buyers fee just takes money out of collectors pockets and sends it to the auction company, on coins that don't need to be sold this route.
Coin shows are unsurpassed venues for seeing lots of coins in-hand, establishing relationships with dealers and collectors that will help you in the future, and learning little tidbits that you wouldn't hear anyplace else. Lots of coins are held off websites and out of display cases for private-treaty deals based on relationships forged and strengthened at shows. It may be possible to build a nice collection from the comfort of one's computer, but I guarantee that the collection would benefit from the collector attending a few decent-sized shows each year and building a set of face-to-face contacts in this hobby.
<< <i>Good thread. After reading it I have no desire to be a dealer. I agree that the auctions are too big, but demand is what's driving supply. I'd guess that most of what gets sold at auction goes to people who haven't inspected the coins in-hand. This is probably different for high-end stuff. I agree that making connections with people is the greatest value to a show. Those connections are the key to making a good collection great. >>
The flipside of your statement about auctions is many of the coins that for high prices go to those at the end of the foodchain...ie the collector. I would wager well over 50% of the coins at auction go to dealers. The % of collectors with an unlimited budget is I'm sure quite low. These larger and larger auctions are IMO depressing the prices on many coins. I wonder if they will ever get to a size where the bottom fishers will get some bargains! Think about how much the typical collector consignor receives for his coins...around 80% of hammer. Heck! Sell those coins to me as well over 90% of my sales are on a margin of less than 20%! Probably more than 50% are at a margin of 10% or less!
<< <i>There seems to be entirely way too many coin shows. >>
Are there too many car companies?
Too many restaurants?
Too many college bowl games? (er, scratch that one).
I'm confident that the free market will sort all of this stuff out, and that if there are indeed too many, some will fail and others will thrive. I am also confident that some enterprising individual or entity will start some new one, somewhere.
A good assortment of Dealer web sites stored in my favorites, eBay, Teletrade, Great Collections, Heritage all online. I can see more of the coins I collect in one afternoon of surfing than there will be at the Kent show this weekend that for sure. BTW last show I only found three coins to buy.
Except that you are not really looking at the coins.
<< <i>I can see more of the coins I collect in one afternoon of surfing than there will be at the Kent show this weekend that for sure.
Except that you are not really looking at the coins. >>
I agree but I also never buy on line anything that does not have a return privilege.
Realone you crack me up!
<< <i>
<< <i>I can see more of the coins I collect in one afternoon of surfing than there will be at the Kent show this weekend that for sure.
Except that you are not really looking at the coins. >>
I agree but I also never buy on line anything that does not have a return privilege.
I agree, too, but the purpose of looking at coins, for me, is to learn about how all sorts of coins look, including those that I do not intend to buy. For every one coin I buy, I can twirl a couple hundred auction coins in my hand at Heritage lot viewing, and each coin in hand adds to the cumulative experience. The learning process is slower and longer if it's one coin at a time.
<< <i>
<< <i>Good thread. After reading it I have no desire to be a dealer. I agree that the auctions are too big, but demand is what's driving supply. I'd guess that most of what gets sold at auction goes to people who haven't inspected the coins in-hand. This is probably different for high-end stuff. I agree that making connections with people is the greatest value to a show. Those connections are the key to making a good collection great. >>
The flipside of your statement about auctions is many of the coins that for high prices go to those at the end of the foodchain...ie the collector. I would wager well over 50% of the coins at auction go to dealers. The % of collectors with an unlimited budget is I'm sure quite low. These larger and larger auctions are IMO depressing the prices on many coins. I wonder if they will ever get to a size where the bottom fishers will get some bargains! Think about how much the typical collector consignor receives for his coins...around 80% of hammer. Heck! Sell those coins to me as well over 90% of my sales are on a margin of less than 20%! Probably more than 50% are at a margin of 10% or less! >>
You're right. Collectors who bid often forget that they're competing with dealers. It changes your perspective when you're the underbidder on an auction coin and you see it a couple of weeks later on a dealer's Internet site plus the dealers markup. It is also interesting now that you can see the price the dealer actually paid at auction when doing a cert lookup. It makes it hard for a dealer to turn a killer auction purchase into the kind of profit that would have been realized in the old market.
So this is off on a tangent....
One I got the transaction costs of auction and eBay sales imprinted in my head I decided it would be better to sell directly to dealers. I tried. I must admit I've had much better experiences buying things from dealers than selling to dealers. When talking about a purchase I get interesting discussion, smalltalk, attention, and great customer service. When talking about selling a coin the reception is sometimes more like trying to talk your way out of a Peruvian prison. Sometimes it goes well and sometimes phone calls aren't returned, e-mails aren't answered, a dealer gives a shrug or eyeroll. It might take 10 discussions to find the dealer that is looking for that particular item. I'll admit I haven't been to a show for a while. Maybe things are changing since there is a feeling now that good coins are getting harder for dealers to find. Consigning to an auction is admittedly easier and puts the coins before a much larger audience. Coins go away. Money comes back. No judgment. No haggling. No negotiation. No eyerolls.
Don't get me wrong. I hold knowledgable and helpful dealers in high esteem. Probably less than half of my current collection has come from auctions. My percentage of hits vs. misses is better when working with a good dealer.
I have never bought a coin from an image. Ever. And I never will. The idea of buying a coin that I might want to return in a week for any reason just doesn't appeal to me. Images can hide hairlines, carbon flecks and not accurately reflect how some toned coins actually look in hand. This can be due to no fault of the person imaging the coins. I'm seen hundreds of images of coins whose color didn't look quite right, but when I saw them in hand, said coins looked completely different than their images.
Another advantage of going to larger shows, as a handful of others have pointed out, is getting acquainted with other posters on the forum, and also making contacts. As for finding difficult coins, if you don't make contact with people who have access to them -- so you can get first shot at these coins -- you are either not going to find them, or by the time you do, they have changed hands and been marked up so much that you really shouldn't want them, as they have become too pricey.
As for auctions, Laura pointed out awhile back that oftentimes (but not always), they aren't great places to buy coins. From my perspective, some people get an ego-gratification of sorts from getting an auction coin, which in their mind, means it is okay for them to pay more than they would pay for such coin from a dealer.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Good thread. After reading it I have no desire to be a dealer. I agree that the auctions are too big, but demand is what's driving supply. I'd guess that most of what gets sold at auction goes to people who haven't inspected the coins in-hand. This is probably different for high-end stuff. I agree that making connections with people is the greatest value to a show. Those connections are the key to making a good collection great. >>
The flipside of your statement about auctions is many of the coins that for high prices go to those at the end of the foodchain...ie the collector. I would wager well over 50% of the coins at auction go to dealers. The % of collectors with an unlimited budget is I'm sure quite low. These larger and larger auctions are IMO depressing the prices on many coins. I wonder if they will ever get to a size where the bottom fishers will get some bargains! Think about how much the typical collector consignor receives for his coins...around 80% of hammer. Heck! Sell those coins to me as well over 90% of my sales are on a margin of less than 20%! Probably more than 50% are at a margin of 10% or less! >>
You're right. Collectors who bid often forget that they're competing with dealers. It changes your perspective when you're the underbidder on an auction coin and you see it a couple of weeks later on a dealer's Internet site plus the dealers markup. It is also interesting now that you can see the price the dealer actually paid at auction when doing a cert lookup. It makes it hard for a dealer to turn a killer auction purchase into the kind of profit that would have been realized in the old market.
So this is off on a tangent....
One I got the transaction costs of auction and eBay sales imprinted in my head I decided it would be better to sell directly to dealers. I tried. I must admit I've had much better experiences buying things from dealers than selling to dealers. When talking about a purchase I get interesting discussion, smalltalk, attention, and great customer service. When talking about selling a coin the reception is sometimes more like trying to talk your way out of a Peruvian prison. Sometimes it goes well and sometimes phone calls aren't returned, e-mails aren't answered, a dealer gives a shrug or eyeroll. It might take 10 discussions to find the dealer that is looking for that particular item. I'll admit I haven't been to a show for a while. Maybe things are changing since there is a feeling now that good coins are getting harder for dealers to find. Consigning to an auction is admittedly easier and puts the coins before a much larger audience. Coins go away. Money comes back. No judgment. No haggling. No negotiation. No eyerolls.
Don't get me wrong. I hold knowledgable and helpful dealers in high esteem. Probably less than half of my current collection has come from auctions. My percentage of hits vs. misses is better when working with a good dealer. >>
The 1 thing about selling coins at a show is you need to shop them a bit...but just don't whore them out! Learn which dealers pay strong and those who don't. If I give a firm offer it is likely to go down if the coin is shopped around too much! That comes from getting sold out for a couple of bucks on a reasonable sized purchase. Learn which dealers pay strong and those who don't. You will see a pattern develope fairly quickly.I'm not saying all...but most dealers who have a brick and mortar usually will not pay what a dealer who only does shows pays. This is simple economics as the B+M dealer does not have the competition. On the other hand B+M dealers who actively service want lists will always be a top contender for nice coins.
<< <i>Didn't one of the shows just recently announce they where trowing in the hat. Being from a part of the country that has very few shows to even think about attending I'd say your right on the point that shows are not needed to build a collection.
A good assortment of Dealer web sites stored in my favorites, eBay, Teletrade, Great Collections, Heritage all online. I can see more of the coins I collect in one afternoon of surfing than there will be at the Kent show this weekend that for sure. BTW last show I only found three coins to buy.
I saw another thread today where somebody got a low-ball offer from his B&M store and will never go back. Not justifying low-ball offers -- at all -- but running a B&M is a particularly nasty way to try to make a living. A lot of us dealers have transitioned away from that (19th century) business model. In my particular case I am web-only, and do as many shows as I can, but that's not many for various reasons. When I do a show I am as interested in making good, fair offers and buying coins for inventory as I am in selling, as that's the best way for me to see the kinds of coins in person that I deal in. So, thanks to all you guys and gals who do visit dealer websites and make the occasional purchase!
Best Regards,
George
Since he bought/buys through Brandon, he was/is, in a sense, at every show Brandon was at.
Dealers need shows more than collectors.
<< <i> Pouring through auction boxes is overrated. MJ >>
Good post but I strongly disagree with that. There is no better way to educate yourself about the nuances of grading, what is crap and what is not, than to look at lots and lots of coins. In addition, many coins that I could not ever imagine owning are available for inspection at lot viewing, wonderful coins that my modest wages as a blue collar kind of guy would never allow me to own.. There is always something to see and something to learn from every box of coins you look through. It is for me at least, one of the highlights of the show.
Edited to add,
I posted after reading MJ's opening post without reading page two first. But I was not surprised to see RYK and ElContador post earlier essentially the same thing.
<< <i>
<< <i> Pouring through auction boxes is overrated. MJ >>
Good post but I strongly disagree with that. There is no better way to educate yourself about the nuances of grading, what is crap and what is not, than to look at lots and lots of coins. In addition, many coins that I could not ever imagine owning are available for inspection at lot viewing, wonderful coins that my modest wages as a blue collar kind of guy would never allow me to own.. There is always something to see and something to learn from every box of coins you look through. It is for me at least, one of the highlights of the show. >>
I missed that comment of MJ's, and I disagree on two accounts.
1. The word is "poring'" (unless you are dumping them on the floor).
2. I have learned more about problem coins and how to identify them poring through auction boxes than I could possibly learn any other way. I also have had the opportunity to hold four Stellas at one time, held coins like the 1854-S quarter eagles (2) and the Garrett 1815 $5, fondled scores of High Relief $20's, rare patterns, and many coins I could not imagine ever seeing up close, in my hand, for as long as I wish. Looking through auction lots is an enjoyable and invaluable experience.
I agree with MJ's basic point, but let's face it, most of us don't live in Moose Munch Canada. There do tend to be shows where we live. I bet that if AB lived near a place with a show he'd go to the show. I predominantly go to shows to meet people and see lots of coins. I'll go to the small local shows to mainly see friends, and hope that I might get lucky finding some coin on the bourse. Generally I don't find any coins at the small shows, but every now and then, maybe 1 time in 20, a neat coin does pop up out of no where. As for the larger shows, keeping even somewhat on budget is the issue. In all cases, just going to these shows, big or small, is a pleasant social occasion to meet friends and people I've met through the boards.
U.S. Type Set
Poring through auction boxes can be a huge learning experience. At least you get to see what coins should and should not look like side by side. However, there are just to many auctions and too many boxes. My ADD works against me here.
I've mentioned before in other threads that the market would work itself out in regards to too many shows and that someone would figure a "better way". CCU- pointed this out as well nicely in this thread. My main point would be to get in front of this and not let the tail wag the dog. Less painful that way.
Rick made my point for me on the collector side of the equation. AB, had a great dealer working for him so he didn't need to physically attend shows. I also hazard to guess that a lot of the coins Brandon found for AB were not in any dealers showcases. Have to know where the honey is kept.
I love a great coin show and there is no substitute for for one to get the entire collector experience. However, collections can be built in many ways and combinations. Even great ones.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I love a great coin show and there is no substitute for for one to get the entire collector experience. However, collections can be built in many ways and combinations. Even great ones. >>
Amen to all of that!
stopped featuring an auction, many national dealers stopped going there, and it eventually stopped
justifying its own existence.
I find poring over auction lots both educational and pleasurable, and these days it's frequently the
highlight of my coin show experience. Are there too many auctions? I tend to agree with CCU that
the market will answer that question, and the situation will self-correct, if so. YMMV.
These positives greatly outweigh the negatives but here are a few:
1. Shows are often not the best time to have long conversations with your dealer because they are working and often multitasking. It is therefore usually not a good occasion to show him or her all the great buys you got from other dealers.
2. I unfortunately go to shows encumbered by a spending limit (the collector half of my person finds this annoying). Because this limit has to include any coins won at auction, purchases from the bourse are a bit of a potluck. I often end up contacting a dealer in the week after the show to buy a coin which I am sure is quite exasperating to them when they just saw me the week before.
3. Lighting at coin shows generally stinks making purchase decisions all the more perplexing.
Still have enjoyed every show I have attended and AB's collection notwithstanding, my collection has benefited directly and indirectly from show attendance.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Having dealers that are fair and trust worthy that have The Eye is irreplaceable...They know where the types of coins you are looking for either by previous placements of hear say live... Guess you could say I do not discriminate though...
One thing is and i never forget the person or person`s that I do good by... I ALWAYS try my best to include them in almost all my deals... Many times it ends up costing me less in the long run and i get what i really want that way...
Also it doesn`t hurt to have a great relationship with a dealer that keeps a wonderful inventory of the stuff you like...
Those dealers for the most part that frequent the shows work their butts off! When i do a job i have a quote established and have what my expenses will be and i know what my bottom line will be...Those guys and gals once in a blue moon hit a homerun... But they purchase stuff that may be in their inventory for years before they sell it...Possibly for a very close margin...It has to be a stressful profession...
With that said getting back to MJ`s point until just last week i had done pretty good putting some pretty nice coins together without ever going to a show...I have to thank and give MJ a big handshake for considering my collection world class...
After being at FUN it was awesome to view the coins in hand and for me to work the deals was a great experience... The comradery with fellow collectors and dealers was incredible... I will most definitely be going to more shows in the future but will be very selective in the ones to attend...
After all is said and done though, i will not be fixing something that aint broke...
Thanks again MJ for the very cool thread...
AB
<< <i> A lot of us dealers have transitioned away from that (19th century) business model. >>
B&Ms were not a 19th century business model. The 19th century business model was representing clients at auction and fixed-price lists distributed through house organs. B&Ms did not come to fruition until well into the 20th century.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces